Canadian official comes to US for surgery

[facetguy]

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The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador recently chose to come to the US for a valve replacement surgery.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

Probably doesn't speak well for the Canadian health system.

 

[docB]

I heard this originally on one of the conservative radio shows. They eventually said though that while the particular type of surgery he needed was available in Canada it wasn't available in his province. Since he had to travel he came to the US because one of his doctors had trained in the center he went to.

I have a feeling this is one of those situations that really doesn't say too much about either system on a national level.

 

[Substance]

The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador recently chose to come to the US for a valve replacement surgery.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

Probably doesn't speak well for the Canadian health system.

Danny Williams needed what sounds like a valve replacement. News reports have said that it was a "Murmur" that initiated investigation of his heard. Reports have also been saying that he underwent "minimally invasive" surgery. One could not be faulted for assuming that he had undergone a minimally invasive valve replacement, probably aortic.

That being said, the procedure is available in Canada in Ontario and probably BC, but the waiting list is super long. Given that Mr. Williams is a multimillionaire businessman, he probably opted to have the procedure done quickly by paying out-of-pocket to an American surgeon rather than wait in the queue.

It illustrates the big problem with Canadian health care, which is "wait times" or more appropriately a lack of an adequate number of doctors to perform needed services.

I've heard an old saying that health care can be only two out of the following three things: good, fast, and cheap. Canada's is good and cheap. America's is good and fast.

 

[Pharmavixen]

I heard this originally on one of the conservative radio shows.

I'm not falling down in surprise.

I have a feeling this is one of those situations that really doesn't say too much about either system on a national level.

Cogent 👍

Turns out what he had was a mitral valve prolapse. Last year there was an article published in the New England Journal on mitral valve repair. This article advocates patients getting such treatment in high-volume centres, where the surgeons are experienced at these fiddly sorts of surgeries.

That article was written by two cardiologists, one from St. Mike's hospital in Toronto, and the other from the Ottawa Heart Institute.

Guess where one of the highest volumes of mitral valve repair in North America takes place.

In all fairness, I'm sure more of these surgeries are done stateside just by virtue of population; I mean, Florida has nearly 2/3 the population of Canada, and it's all old people with bad hearts.

Also in all fairness, I have no idea if laparoscopic repair of mitral valve prolapse is done anywhere in Canada. So lucky us! Danny is back at work quicker than if he'd had his chest cracked, ready to get on with more cuts to heath care like the good Conservative politician he is.

And basically, the guy is a professional s*** disturber. There's no way in he!! a left-wing politician of Danny Williams' prominence would go stateside for health care.

 

[dynx]

I'm not falling down in surprise.


Cogent 👍

Turns out what he had was a mitral valve prolapse. Last year there was an article published in the New England Journal on mitral valve repair. This article advocates patients getting such treatment in high-volume centres, where the surgeons are experienced at these fiddly sorts of surgeries.

That article was written by two cardiologists, one from St. Mike's hospital in Toronto, and the other from the Ottawa Heart Institute.

Guess where one of the highest volumes of mitral valve repair in North America takes place.

In all fairness, I'm sure more of these surgeries are done stateside just by virtue of population; I mean, Florida has nearly 2/3 the population of Canada, and it's all old people with bad hearts.

Also in all fairness, I have no idea if laparoscopic repair of mitral valve prolapse is done anywhere in Canada. So lucky us! Danny is back at work quicker than if he'd had his chest cracked, ready to get on with more cuts to heath care like the good Conservative politician he is.

And basically, the guy is a professional s*** disturber. There's no way in he!! a left-wing politician of Danny Williams' prominence would go stateside for health care.

You note a lot of the reasons a "canadian type" health care system wouldnt work in the US.
I agree with most of your post except your last point. Any pol would jump ship or jump the line if it was a significant medical problem they were suffering from.
Oh...and its not "laparoscopic".

 

[Pharmavixen]

I agree with most of your post except your last point. Any pol would jump ship or jump the line if it was a significant medical problem they were suffering from.

You may be right.

Update: the surgery Danny Williams got stateside can be done in several centres in Canada. The media up here have been calling cardiologists, who are mystified as to why he went south. Danny says his drs told him it was serious, and as far as wait lists go, if your condition is serious, you jump to the front of the line.

One of the theories is that he wanted to be in the Florida sunshine while recovering from heart surgery, rather than, say, Ottawa, where winter is brutal.

 

[facetguy]

You may be right.

Update: the surgery Danny Williams got stateside can be done in several centres in Canada. The media up here have been calling cardiologists, who are mystified as to why he went south. Danny says his drs told him it was serious, and as far as wait lists go, if your condition is serious, you jump to the front of the line.

One of the theories is that he wanted to be in the Florida sunshine while recovering from heart surgery, rather than, say, Ottawa, where winter is brutal.

Can't blame him there. So many benefits of optimizing vitamin D levels.🙂

 

[docB]

And now even our hockey team is better than Canada's

 

[Pharmavixen]

And now even our hockey team is better than Canada's

We shall see.....tonight we smoked the Russians, 7-3.

 

[dynx]

And now even our hockey team is better than Canada's

Careful. We slid by the "suisse" tonight with a lot of shots-on-goal a small percent of which squeeked by. I don't think we can best the canadians again....I hope so, but I'd bet they cream us if we face up later.

 

[Pharmavixen]

Anybody want to share an opinion of this? A reporter from MacLean's e-mailed the chief of cardiac surgery at the Ottawa Heart Institute, who said this:

Dr. Thierry Mesana, chief of the institute’s cardiac surgery division, and a leading international authority on mitral valves, responded by email on the general question of how minimally invasive surgery is viewed by the experts.

“Minimally invasive mitral valve repair consists of doing an MV repair surgically through a 5 cm small side chest incision instead of a 10 cm incision in the middle of the chest. A recent survey published at the Society of Thoracic Surgeons meeting (Jan 2010) expressed some word of caution and showed it is not recommended for complex mitral valve repair and also that the rate of complication (strokes in particular) is higher.

“There are a few advantages in terms of length of hospital stay or transfusion or post-operative arrythmias. The only real benefit is cosmetic. Many world renowned experts do not advocate it, in fact. It is done in Canada, but again, with caution. I propose it only for cosmetic reasons in a young woman who dislikes the idea of having a scar visible in summer. This procedure is well publicized in the U.S. in some centres.”

 

[tibor75]

The fact that this guy was able to fly and travel to Florida shows his condition was not THAT serious, and he could have waited to have it done in Canada.

The idea that waiting to have bypass surgery or valve surgery by a few weeks / months is a bad one is ludicrious and is a manifestation of our "do now!" society.

Coronary disease / valve pathology takes years to develop. Waiting to fix it won't hurt 99.9% of people.

 

[tibor75]

never mind...repeat post

 

[VegaSinclair]

I've read about this elsewhere and have seen both sides argue it. But my question is, with him being under the Canadian health care system, did they cover any of the expenses? The reason I ask is what if a Canadian was vacationing in Florida and had a heart attack. Would they be covered or would they have to pay the whole bill? Is there anyone from Canada who knows this answer. I know our private health insurance doesn't cover all or any emergency medical expenses over seas which is why it's recommended that people get travel insurance. But I wonder how their system works.

 

[Pharmavixen]

I've read about this elsewhere and have seen both sides argue it. But my question is, with him being under the Canadian health care system, did they cover any of the expenses? The reason I ask is what if a Canadian was vacationing in Florida and had a heart attack. Would they be covered or would they have to pay the whole bill? Is there anyone from Canada who knows this answer. I know our private health insurance doesn't cover all or any emergency medical expenses over seas which is why it's recommended that people get travel insurance. But I wonder how their system works.

Canadian health care is a lot less expensive than American. If you get sick/injured out of the country, they used to pay at the same rate as they pay if you're at home, but now it's less than that. So Canadians buy travel insurance if they leave the country.

In the case of Danny Williams, he left the country for surgery he could easily have had done in Canada. He's wealthy and can afford to go anywhere, and many doctors up here support his choice to do whatever he wants with his own health. What many Canadians object to is, he's the premier of a province, and health care is a provincial responsibility so the buck stops with him: he has ultimate stewardship over health care funding in his province. As a right-wing politician, he's made cut-backs to government services, including to health care. Furthermore, in the past few years, there's been this scandal in Newfoundland/Labrador around breast cancer testing - many women were falsely diagnosed ER negative and so didn't receive adjunctive hormone treatment from which they would have benefited. Danny Williams has been vociferous in his defence of the quality of health care in Newfoundland/Labrador. But...when he himself has a health problem, he immediately leaves the country (though he didn't have to). So you can see how eyebrows would be raised.

 

[RGMSU]

Doesn't prove anything, except that the great centerpiece of American healthcare is our willingness to due procedures, procedures, procedures - and our skill at them because we do them so much. All the while, with our focus on procedures and diagnostics, our thinking, management, and prevention have fallen through the floor.

 

[facetguy]

I've read about this elsewhere and have seen both sides argue it. But my question is, with him being under the Canadian health care system, did they cover any of the expenses? The reason I ask is what if a Canadian was vacationing in Florida and had a heart attack. Would they be covered or would they have to pay the whole bill? Is there anyone from Canada who knows this answer. I know our private health insurance doesn't cover all or any emergency medical expenses over seas which is why it's recommended that people get travel insurance. But I wonder how their system works.

I think I read that he paid cash out of pocket but would be applying for partial reimbursement if one is owed him by Canada. If he is smart, he'll just eat the whole bill and move on.

 

[Pharmavixen]

I think I read that he paid cash out of pocket but would be applying for partial reimbursement if one is owed him by Canada. If he is smart, he'll just eat the whole bill and move on.

Correct on both counts.