CAN't make up my mind: IT's Buffalo vs Penn

[shvora]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I love both the schools. The UB tuition makes it very attractive; however, what things offered at Penn and not at UB would make Penn worth that large expense!!! Penn is a 1.5hr drive from my family and Buffalo is cold ugh and 11hr away. I am just analyzing..not sure if all of this really matters to me..just very confused, as both a pretty good.

 

[blankguy]

Congratulations on your acceptance to both. I think that being close to family is no to be overlooked. If you feel that will make you perform better in dental school then pick UPenn because in the long run you can recoup the extra expense of going to UPenn. You can't recoup lack luster performance because you went to school far away from your family. If you do well then it is well worth the expense.

The flip side is if you feel that family is a distraction then go to Buffalo.

 

[stdmufin27]

I would agree that the family is/can be helpful addition to the rigors of school. An hour and a half from family is perfect because they're just far enough to not be a distraction but close enough to be around when you need a little help or just want to see the family. So, I would say Penn.

 

[haisha ni narou]

Penn all the way.

 

[Regmata]

Penn all the way.

Sure, if you want to pay a hell of a lot more for a comparable education

 

[SHC1984]

some people might disagree but
Penn if you want to specialize
UB if you don't want to specialize
good luck! 🙂

 

[dentstd]

Not considering the dental school population, if you go to Penn, you'll be surrounded by some of the brightest minds in the country. If you go to UB, you'll be surrounded by some of the dumbest in the country. But you'll can take the money you saved and buy yourself a Porsche Turbo.

 

[armorshell]

Not considering the dental school population, if you go to Penn, you'll be surrounded by some of the brightest minds in the country. If you go to UB, you'll be surrounded by some of the dumbest in the country. But you'll can take the money you saved and buy yourself a Porsche Turbo.

Even if that were true, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to him. Penn isn't going to make him any smarter and UB sure as hell isn't going to make him any dumber. Penn, however, will make him a great deal poorer.

I'd also wager that the comment you just made about UB was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this forum. Congratulations.

 

[dentstd]

Even if that were true, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to him. Penn isn't going to make him any smarter and UB sure as hell isn't going to make him any dumber. Penn, however, will make him a great deal poorer.

I'd also wager that the comment you just made about UB was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this forum. Congratulations.

Unpopular and politically incorrect, maybe. Whether there's truth to it's a different story. Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

 

[jackbauer!]

Buffalo 100%. Penn is one of the most expensive schools in the country, while Buffalo is one of the cheapest. Your patients will never care where you went to school, nor do a vast majority of specialty programs. But, if you choose Penn, you will care when you graduate from dental school and realize you are at least $100k more in debt than you should be.

Have fun at Buffalo.

jb!🙂

 

[golfer]

Unpopular and politically incorrect, maybe. Whether there's truth to it's a different story. Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

I would love to see the survey you conducted to come to this conclusion. "Hi, I am dental STD what was your HS gpa?"
You are going to make a great dentist

 

[armorshell]

Unpopular and politically incorrect, maybe. Whether there's truth to it's a different story. Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

Regardless of what the composition of the undergrad campus may be, any dental student is going to spend most of their time with other health professions students, none of whom could get where they are without some measure of drive and intelligence.

While the dental students at UB may not be, on average, of quite the caliber of the average Penn student, I do believe they are above the national average on most admission criteria.

My point? The fact that there may be some really smart business majors across campus isn't a smart reason to choose a dental school, in my humble opinion.

 

[armorshell]

Buffalo 100%. Penn is one of the most expensive schools in the country, while Buffalo is one of the cheapest. Your patients will never care where you went to school, nor do a vast majority of specialty programs. But, if you choose Penn, you will care when you graduate from dental school and realize you are at least $100k more in debt than you should be.

Have fun at Buffalo.

jb!🙂

I say Buffalo 101%, just to get all "Price is Right" on you.

Don't forget that at UB you get your own operatory. 👍

 

[Istr8nthem]

Not considering the dental school population, if you go to Penn, you'll be surrounded by some of the brightest minds in the country. If you go to UB, you'll be surrounded by some of the dumbest in the country. But you'll can take the money you saved and buy yourself a Porsche Turbo.

Where did you do your Ortho residency??

 

[ncalcate]

Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

I'm one of those uneducated individuals attending this 3rd tier school to which you refer. You might want to brush up on your English grammar skills before making such sweeping generalizations. Based upon your use of the word "whole's", I would venture to say you slept through high school English class.

Or perhaps, based upon your lack of even basic English grammar skills, you're actually one of the people "who never cared about their high school education?"

 

[Regmata]

Ironic accusations, seeing as his logic and posts lead the reader to believe that he is the dumb one

 

[wigglytooth]

please don't feed the flames, folks. 😉

personally, i loved talking to the UB dental students at my interveiw. they were very sincere and open. i know a few penn kids as well, and they're great too. if i had just UB and Penn to consider, it would be a very rough choice. i think what you might want to consider is cost and location, if you want "easier" access to research (Penn--but you could do research at any school, just Penn is known for research more), if you want your own operatory (UB--i have heard that the trouble with Penn comes in how they run the clinic). both schools have very good reputations in the dental world, so you basically can't make a wrong decision. well, i take that back... you've made a wrong decision if you listen to other people tell you where to go instead of where you feel you want to go. get advice and opinions, but feel from your gut that you really want to go where you ultimately decide on going.

 

[blankguy]

I'm surprised that for somebody going through the rigors of dental school he still can manage to have such an ego. He probably was referring to undergrads and in this regard there is a big quality gap between Buffalo and UPenn regardless Buffalo is a good school. Every school has their share of smart people and not so bright individuals.

 

[Montserrat]

Do a tally, and write it all out.

- Family considerations
- Quality of clinical education
- Temperament of student body
- Proximity to climbing locations
- Price
- Location
- Balanced education
- Specialization (if this interests you - and despite what others might say of being able to specialize from any school with hard work, the Penn name does buy leverage)

These are arranged in their order of importance for me, but your order will probably vary. Write out what is most important for you, and go from there.
Hard to internally debate what is written before you 😉.

 

[dkny2kx]

Buffalo man... Buffalo....!

 

[Cymbidium]

Unpopular and politically incorrect, maybe. Whether there's truth to it's a different story. Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

Although I disagree with the way you're saying this - it's actually true. UB was always the school that the local kids who barely scraped by in highshool would attend. But even UB has its standards - I think you need at least a 950 on your SATs to get in. Other than that they'll pretty much take anybody.

However I don't think the undergrad population can be compared to the professional school population. I know several people in the medical and dental program there - even one girl who got into penn and buffalo dental last year and chose buffalo over penn (for the $$).

 

[Danny0230]

Unpopular and politically incorrect, maybe. Whether there's truth to it's a different story. Have you seen UB? The university as a whole's appears to be full of people who never cared about their high school education. Consequence of being a 3rd tier school.

Who cares what a schools undergrad reputation is? That's just ignorant.

I'm interested in minimizing debt, becoming a great dentist, and enjoying the next 40 years of my life in practice. I'm not interested in showing off to patients with a degree from a big name school while paying off a 350k loan. I'm also not interested in trolling the boards ragging on other schools.

Guess everyone has different priorities, though.

 

[jackbauer!]

Who cares what a schools undergrad reputation is? That's just ignorant.

I'm interested in minimizing debt, becoming a great dentist, and enjoying the next 40 years of my life in practice. I'm not interested in showing off to patients with a degree from a big name school while paying off a 350k loan. I'm also not interested in trolling the boards ragging on other schools.

Guess everyone has different priorities, though.

👍

 

[tamkhan]

I'd go with UB. Save money, and you'll thank yourself later on in life. The quality of education at both schools, in fact, at every dental school, is great. If you work hard, you'll get your reward from whichever school you choose. gl

 

[dentstd]

I'm one of those uneducated individuals attending this 3rd tier school to which you refer. You might want to brush up on your English grammar skills before making such sweeping generalizations. Based upon your use of the word "whole's", I would venture to say you slept through high school English class.

Or perhaps, based upon your lack of even basic English grammar skills, you're actually one of the people "who never cared about their high school education?"

So your rebuttal's based on a typo? This isn't an english paper.

I know I made an unpopular statement. I made it on purpose. If you all would prefer, I can rephrase. Students an Penn, on average, are smarter than that of UB. And to those who want the basis of the argument, Top 10 vs. 3rd tier school. I take no issue with the dental school, as they take virtually comparable students with other top schools. I just don't like the composition of the university and the city.

 

[golfer]

So your rebuttal's based on a typo? This isn't an english paper.

I know I made an unpopular statement. I made it on purpose. If you all would prefer, I can rephrase. Students an Penn, on average, are smarter than that of UB. And to those who want the basis of the argument, Top 10 vs. 3rd tier school. I take no issue with the dental school, as they take virtually comparable students with other top schools. I just don't like the composition of the university and the city.

I guess I was confused...I thought the op was asking about the dental schools. I didn't realized he was still in high school asking about his undergrad education.

 

[blankguy]

So your rebuttal's based on a typo? This isn't an english paper.

I know I made an unpopular statement. I made it on purpose. If you all would prefer, I can rephrase. Students an Penn, on average, are smarter than that of UB. And to those who want the basis of the argument, Top 10 vs. 3rd tier school. I take no issue with the dental school, as they take virtually comparable students with other top schools. I just don't like the composition of the university and the city.

Undergrad is irrelevant here. We will be surrounded by professional school students and confined to the medical/dental campus. All dental schools will grant you the DDS/DMD degree. I am concerned about getting that degree if your priority is hanging out with the "smart" crowd that's fine by me. It's your education that's at issue here.

 

[Danny0230]

So your rebuttal's based on a typo? This isn't an english paper.

I know I made an unpopular statement. I made it on purpose. If you all would prefer, I can rephrase. Students an Penn, on average, are smarter than that of UB. And to those who want the basis of the argument, Top 10 vs. 3rd tier school. I take no issue with the dental school, as they take virtually comparable students with other top schools. I just don't like the composition of the university and the city.

Ridiculously irrelevant. The medical/dental/pharmacy schools are on a completely different campus than undergrad, miles apart. I could not possibly care less about how students are doing in undergrad at the school I go to learn dentistry.

 

[armorshell]

I guess I was confused...I thought the op was asking about the dental schools. I didn't realized he was still in high school asking about his undergrad education.

Even if that were the case, which it isn't, the argument would play out exactly the same.

 

[blankguy]

Even if that were the case, which it isn't, the argument would play out exactly the same.

Well at least we'll be able to practice on the student "dumb" student population. Some of the people who end up in student clinics as patients are not necessarily the smartest sampling of the population as a whole.

 

[shvora]

Thanks all! The undergrad education does not matter to me. I met a 4th year at uB who did his undergrad at Columbia, and rejected Columbia/Penn/Stony brook. Overall I felt that the dental school students belonged to a comparable league at Penn and UB. I felt that students at both schools were proud of their choice and were overall happy. I wish I got the Penn scholarship, but for now I am leaning more towards Buffalo!

 

[TerpFan]

I love both the schools. The UB tuition makes it very attractive; however, what things offered at Penn and not at UB would make Penn worth that large expense!!! Penn is a 1.5hr drive from my family and Buffalo is cold ugh and 11hr away. I am just analyzing..not sure if all of this really matters to me..just very confused, as both a pretty good.

I said this before to the guy who was wondering if going to school in Michigan away from SoCal but saving $130,000 was worth it and I'll say the same thing to you.....

Notice how all (MOST of them, before i get flamed for making sweeping generalizations) the pre-dents tell you the "go where you feel comfortable" crap but all (again, MOST of) the Dental students tell you to go where it's the cheapest. Think about it.

 

[ddsjymaeng]

I am 1st year now at Penn...
One thing I can say for sure 100% sure to you is that
this class is full of smart kids....hard working too!!!

Upenn dental students... o my god...
they are damn bright....so smart!!!
I thought I was the smartest back when I was in college!!!
If u wanna get some bright people around you come to upenn...

 

[Hysteria24]

I said this before to the guy who was wondering if going to school in Michigan away from SoCal but saving $130,000 was worth it and I'll say the same thing to you.....

Notice how all (MOST of them, before i get flamed for making sweeping generalizations) the pre-dents tell you the "go where you feel comfortable" crap but all (again, MOST of) the Dental students tell you to go where it's the cheapest. Think about it.

Yep…. I’m that guy you speak of, and I’ve been giving that comment some thought.

The tough part is that these numbers seem so imaginary, and as another poster said, it feels like were dealing with “monopoly money.” Because of this, I don’t think were making decisions like this with all of the pros and cons properly weighted.

Conversely, I think dental students/very recent grads are the ones that are most sensitive to this debt, feeling the stress and burden that come along with it more so than a dentist in any other part of his/her career. I’ve been trying to do my due diligence, talking to dentist 5, 10, 20 years out and see how these feeling change over time once they get more established with a larger salary to absorb this difference in debt.

 

[Hysteria24]

I am 1st year now at Penn...
One thing I can say for sure 100% sure to you is that
this class is full of smart kids....hard working too!!!

Upenn dental students... o my god...
they are damn bright....so smart!!!
I thought I was the smartest back when I was in college!!!
If u wanna get some bright people around you come to upenn...

Someone mentioned earlier that attending Upenn would give a better opportunity if one wanted to specialize. Doesn’t something like this (lots of smart, hard working students) work against this, as attaining a high class ranking would be very difficult?

 

[shvora]

I totally agreee with the above comment. I definitely want my options open to specialize. I fail to understand how do most people get in their preferred specialty when class rank matters. Wouldn't the cut throat competition between smart kids decrese my chances to get into my preferred specialty like Ortho (for example). Also, it looked like at UB you need to be no. 1 in class to get into Ortho and people ultimately opt to specialize in their second choice. How does class rank matter in Penn?

 

[shvora]

To further evaluate Penn.
Does Penn give you your own operatory like UB?
Does Penn have an electronic textbook with free printing etc. option like UB?
Am I getting clinically better educated at Penn than Buffalo?
Am I incresing my chances of being in the top 5 in class at Penn or at Buffalo (more applicable for raising my chances to get in my top specialty program)?
Bottom line, am I paying that extra money to Penn for the "Penn=IV League" name alone?

Note: A girl with a 3.8 GPA AND a 16AA on DAT got an interview and acceptance at Penn before me. I am not sure about the argument that Penn DENTAL students are probably more smarter than Buffalo ones. On the other hand, I met at least 3 people who went to IVLeague schools for their undergrad and rejected IVLeagues to go to a cheaper and colder place like Buffalo. So I guess the smartness at both schools could be comparable.

 

[Regmata]

You do not have to be #1 to get ortho...or surgery

 

[yorkiepoo]

I am having similar thoughts about 2 schools. 1 is private and 45 min from home in a nice city and the other is public but 5 hrs from home and in not so nice of a city. The price difference is 80k. It's a hard decision to make, but I think that environment plays a big role in how happy you are. I know I'll be happier at the private one... I'm just not sure if it's worth the 80k.

 

[Danny0230]

You should really keep in mind that an 80k difference isn't an 80k difference when it comes to paying it back. Depending on your payment plan, you'll end up paying 1.5x-2x that 80k difference.

 

[blankguy]

You do not have to be #1 to get ortho...or surgery

You know. What really is amusing is that it seems that half the world wants ortho. I haven't even started dental school and there are predents out there making a big deal about specializing. I am not in any position to decide on this because I haven't been exposed dentistry enough to make a good education decision on this. All I know and care is if I excel (and that is a big if) is that I will rank high, as to what exactly my rank will be (#1, #4, etc...) is a crap shoot. Sorry about going off but I think it is a bit rash to talk about specializing as if you really want to do it at this point for me.

 

[shvora]

I understand that it is too early to decide which specialty I want to choose; however, I strongly have the desire to specialize. Therefore, I am talking about keeping my options open for specializing. Thanks

 

[shvora]

I am having similar thoughts about 2 schools. 1 is private and 45 min from home in a nice city and the other is public but 5 hrs from home and in not so nice of a city. The price difference is 80k. It's a hard decision to make, but I think that environment plays a big role in how happy you are. I know I'll be happier at the private one... I'm just not sure if it's worth the 80k.

I think it's definately more than 80K. Remember that at UB you have the option to become in-state after the first year. So you land up paying 1year out-of-state and rest in-state tuition! What say?!!!

 

[Regmata]

Buy property early enough and you get instate the first year...

 

[gryffindor]

I totally agreee with the above comment. I definitely want my options open to specialize. I fail to understand how do most people get in their preferred specialty when class rank matters. Wouldn't the cut throat competition between smart kids decrese my chances to get into my preferred specialty like Ortho (for example). Also, it looked like at UB you need to be no. 1 in class to get into Ortho and people ultimately opt to specialize in their second choice. How does class rank matter in Penn?

I guess I didn't get this memo about having to be #1 to specialize from UB. Since our #1 went into ortho, the other 9 ortho and OMS people from my class at UB should just go ahead and drop out of residency/private practice now and send their diplomas back.

To further evaluate Penn.
Does Penn give you your own operatory like UB? no
Does Penn have an electronic textbook with free printing etc. option like UB? don't know
Am I getting clinically better educated at Penn than Buffalo? definitely no
Am I incresing my chances of being in the top 5 in class at Penn or at Buffalo (more applicable for raising my chances to get in my top specialty program)? lots of smart people at both schools, but probably more cut-throat competitive ones at Penn. At UB, a good chunk of the class comes in wanting to be GPs or gives up chasing specialities when they realize the extra time to memorize minutia to score high on exams to rank higher isn't worth it to them
Bottom line, am I paying that extra money to Penn for the "Penn=IV League" name alone? you are paying the extra money because it's a private school.

 

[jigabodo]

UB all the way. You will be getting an excellent education either way and you just can't beat the price. 36,000 first year and 18,000 afterwards if you are an instate resident.

 

[armorshell]

I guess I didn't get this memo about having to be #1 to specialize from UB. Since our #1 went into ortho, the other 9 ortho and OMS people from my class at UB should just go ahead and drop out of residency/private practice now and send their diplomas back.

Look at the match thread for OS, there's a UB guy who matched at OHSU, a great OS program, ranked thirty something out of eighty in the class.

 

[blankguy]

Look at the match thread for OS, there's a UB guy who matched at OHSU, a great OS program, ranked thirty something out of eighty in the class.

Wow!😱

I can see it all the other residents with stellar rankings thinking he got in via cronyism.

 

[Regmata]

Wow!😱

I can see it all the other residents with stellar rankings thinking he got in via cronyism.

What predents don't seem to understand is that you do not actually have to be in the top 5 of your class to get the coveted specialties. It certainly helps, but there are many factors involved and students who were no where near #1 get spots. Stay in the top 20%. A lot changes between now and applying for residencies, not everyone will still want to do it.

 

[blankguy]

What predents don't seem to understand is that you do not actually have to be in the top 5 of your class to get the coveted specialties. It certainly helps, but there are many factors involved and students who were no where near #1 get spots. Stay in the top 20%. A lot changes between now and applying for residencies, not everyone will still want to do it.

That's why I personally have not been mouthing off about specializing. First I need to get the feel of what it is going to take to do well in dental school.