Career Options

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AnimaLover52

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Hey guys, I'm currently a junior in college that started off in the pre-vet path, but for personal reasons I've decided to focus more on the business field and I have changed my major to Economics and Finance. However, my love for animals and passion to help them is still strong and I was wondering if there are any other job options available to help animals on the business side? Like maybe a finance position in an animal health company or something. I'm not really sure... Any advice or opinion is appreciated :nod:!
 
Business managers and accountants for vet clinics, zoos, animal health and product companies... If the job exists typically in most businesses, it will still exist in vet med. As unfortunate as some people think it is, we still need money to operate and to pay staff and to pay off the loans and live.

The bigger the corporation, the more likely they are to have money people. Heck, VCA made us watch a whole video on how they were started by entrepreneurs who had no connection to vet med. The found a vet and asked if they could do the same chain thing they had been doing with CA hospitals.

So yes. Any job you want. You just gotta find it and convince them that they want you.
 
Business managers and accountants for vet clinics, zoos, animal health and product companies... If the job exists typically in most businesses, it will still exist in vet med. As unfortunate as some people think it is, we still need money to operate and to pay staff and to pay off the loans and live.

The bigger the corporation, the more likely they are to have money people. Heck, VCA made us watch a whole video on how they were started by entrepreneurs who had no connection to vet med. The found a vet and asked if they could do the same chain thing they had been doing with CA hospitals.

So yes. Any job you want. You just gotta find it and convince them that they want you.

Can you give some names of big companies that are involved in animal welfare that I can look into for internships?
 
Non-profits (shelters, rescues, zoos, wildlife centers, etc.) definitely have a need for accountants/executive directors/other business people.

I know of several near me that have unpaid internships or volunteer opportunities in fundraising or other business-type stuff. The animal world is small, so anything you can do to make connections or get your foot in the door will help.
 
Can you give some names of big companies that are involved in animal welfare that I can look into for internships?
I don't quite know exactly what you are looking for, but:

http://worldanimal.net has animal welfare groups specifically.
Wikipedia also has a list.

I'm sure if you look up animal rescues and shelters in your area, you will find something close. Anything with over 10-20 employees is likely to have a person dedicated to getting funding, grants, all the stuff that makes the place run.

You could also look at all the companies that supply vet clinics: Bayer, MWI, each of the pet food companies, .... sorry, we had a list of like 20 distributes at each of the clinics I worked at and that's as far as my brain is getting me this minute.

Most vet clinics that have more than just a couple doctors also have an accountant on staff.

Plus then you have your corporate chains like VCA and Banfield which seriously have money people since so much coordination is needed.

Then all your vet schools, local animal shelters, zoos, wildlife sanctuaries, .... anything that deals with animals also has to deal with money. What are you interested in specifically? That will narrow the field a lot more than what I come up with off the top of my head.

Seriously though, find a larger rescue in your area. Ask them if they have a funding manager or someone who can show you what it takes from the business side to keep the doors open. It is way more than you would expect.

The big animal supply companies and large chain vet corporations do have business side internships, but I'm not on that side of things, so while I know they exist, finding them is kinda on you.
 
Every non-profit animal rescue has a treasurer or someone running the finances. Bills need to be paid and monies need to be organized somewhere/somehow. If you can't find a paid internship or job in an animal welfare/vet company you could always see if an animal rescue near you would let you learn the ropes from the treasurer of the organization. I would just make sure it's a 501c3 organization and not like a backyard operation type rescue group.

I've been involved with several non-profits over the last 8ish years and it's hard to come by people that are really interested in the fundraising/publicity/money side of things so you have that on your side. Most want to be directly involved with the animals.
 
You could always look into being employed by one of the major supply companies, for example one of the Merck representatives we get into the clinic all the time. Or a douxo rep. From my understanding, you are still very much in the veterinary loop in those positions, discussing product with and introducing vets to the new products. We've had plenty of presentations by the reps in my clinic.

Disclaimer I have only talked to the reps when they have been in; I have never looked into the career with detail myself


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Most of the reps I know were former technicians. They often work as traveling salesman to vet clinics.

Behind them though, there are marketing teams, product development, and a whole management and aquisitions department, plus all the accountants, from those that set pricing of product, to those that run numbers on quarterly and yearly data from each rep and each account, and those that work in HR and employee pay.

Merck has an internship program as well, but I think it is pretty heavily tied to their sales reps. They might have one related to central ops. That might be the better bet for what it sounds like you would want to do with your degree.
 
I also very much agree with the Certified Practice Manager Program post. I know a few people who have done it who are much better managers for taking the training and learning how to tie the animal care and staff/supply/business sides of management together.
 
You could always look into being employed by one of the major supply companies, for example one of the Merck representatives we get into the clinic all the time. Or a douxo rep. From my understanding, you are still very much in the veterinary loop in those positions, discussing product with and introducing vets to the new products. We've had plenty of presentations by the reps in my clinic.

Disclaimer I have only talked to the reps when they have been in; I have never looked into the career with detail myself


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Is Merck known for testing their products on animals? I'd rather not work for a company that is cruel to animals.
 
Is Merck known for testing their products on animals? I'd rather not work for a company that is cruel to animals.

Yes, why would a manufacture of veterinary products ever want to test their products on animals? LOL! Why would you think products intended to be used on animals would not be tested on animals?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Is Merck known for testing their products on animals? I'd rather not work for a company that is cruel to animals.
How else would you expect them to ensure their products work and are safe to use? And their products are important medications improving the lives of animals, so I would not in any way consider them to be "cruel to animals."
 
Is Merck known for testing their products on animals? I'd rather not work for a company that is cruel to animals.
Animal testing and animal cruelty are not one and the same.

There has certainly been cases with overlap, and there is certainly the potential for overlap. However there is also animal testing going on all of the time where there are no welfare concerns. The reason my university employs a veterinarian is to monitor the welfare/treatment of the animals, and to monitor the ethics of that research. Nothing happens without this vet approving it, and she is constantly checking up on everything to make sure it is still meets her standards.

I'm going to take a guess that you have not been heavily exposed to this area of vet med. Now would be a great time to do some research and talk to people in that area (luckily we even have some on the forum!) to get some more facts, and hopefully get some more understanding of what animal testing actually entails.

I'm going to take this moment to tag
@Lab Vet who I'm sure can contribute some healthy knowledge to this thread 🙂
 
Animal testing and animal cruelty are not one and the same.

There has certainly been cases with overlap, and there is certainly the potential for overlap. However there is also animal testing going on all of the time where there are no welfare concerns. The reason my university employs a veterinarian is to monitor the welfare/treatment of the animals, and to monitor the ethics of that research. Nothing happens without this vet approving it, and she is constantly checking up on everything to make sure it is still meets her standards.

I'm going to take a guess that you have not been heavily exposed to this area of vet med. Now would be a great time to do some research and talk to people in that area (luckily we even have some on the forum!) to get some more facts, and hopefully get some more understanding of what animal testing actually entails.

I'm going to take this moment to tag
@Lab Vet who I'm sure can contribute some healthy knowledge to this thread 🙂
Sure, BeautifulBritishColumbia, I'll step in here.

The great majority of products and substances approved by the FDA for use in people and animals are first tested in In vivo systems. All scientists, be they veterinarians or not, are bound by the following animal welfare maxim: Reduce, Refine, Replace. Whenever possible, scientists and the organizations that employ them are morally obligated to reduce the quantity of animals used in any given experiment, refine the procedures to which animals are subjected, and ultimately replace animal use with In vitro platforms or digital simulations (the ultimate goal for all of those involved with animal experimentation).

At this stage of technological development, animal models can't simply be 'done away with' (despite what dubious media sources would have you believe- I'm looking at you, PETA). Many disease processes are multi-factorial and far too complicated to accurately reproduce in a petri-dish or via a computer program. Who knows where science will be in 100 years? Hopefully to the point where In vivo models are no longer required. Unfortunately, we're not there yet. As such, strict regulations govern animal use at every step of the process. The use of living, sentient beings in research is a privilege, not a right.

There are two major federal laws that dictate the use of animals in research; the US Animal Welfare Act and the Health Research Extension Act (also known as the PHS policy). In a 1985 addendum, the AWA mandated that all projects involving animals (with the exception of certain species) be approved and overseen by committees (typically termed 'Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees,' IACUCs) consisting of scientists, at least 1 veterinarian with specialty training in laboratory animal species, a member of the lay public, and an individual unaffiliated with the home institution. Scientists proposing experiments are required by law to detail every planned procedure, as well as the living conditions, to which animals are subjected in extensive reports called protocols, which an IACUC can then approve or reject. IACUCs also inspect animal housing, and monitor procedures as they occur to ensure that the original protocol is being adhered to. Deviation requires official review and approval by the committee. The 1985 HREA extended coverage to those species not protected by the purview of the AWA. Violations of these acts entails serious consequences. For federally-funded labs, grant funding can be withdrawn, necessitating a complete cessation of research activities. This action = certain death for a lab.

Laboratory animals have access to veterinary care 24-7. If an institution is large and supports extensive research activities, one or several specialist veterinarians boarded by the American College of Laboratory Animal Medicine (ACLAM) oversees their care and research use. Some institutions have several. The program with which I worked during the summer of 2016 had 10 ACLAM-boarded vets on site, in addition to three residents in training for their ACLAM boards. Veterinary coverage was available any day of the week, at any hour of the day and night. Staff clinicians rotated weekend and evening coverage much like a companion animal emergency practice.

Lab animal vets care deeply for the well-being of their animal charges, as do the overwhelming majority of scientists. Sometimes, animals are subjected to discomfort for scientifically-justified purposes. In all but the rarest of cases, this pain is well-controlled, and animals are humanely euthanized. In rare instances (only in cases of scientific justification and intense scrutiny), animals are subjected to discomfort without analgesia. These are uncommon, and difficult to watch. They are typically conducted to evaluate the efficacy of analgesic therapies on the alleviation of pain. A scientist can't tell if an analgesic works unless pain exists prior to but is absent following administration of a drug. Such studies are an unfortunate necessity.

To the OP- Have you ever taken a medication (OTC or prescription) to treat an ailment or had surgery of any kind? How about someone you love? None of these advances would ever have been possible without research involving animals. Does Merck use animals in its testing of novel pharmaceutical products. Yes, it does- and I completely support Merck scientists in doing so. I am very proud to be a card-carrying member of the lab animal community. Professionals in this elite group are some of the most caring, empathetic individuals I have had the good fortune to meet. I had a successful career in biomedical science (academic and industrial research) prior to attending veterinary school. In fact, I returned to school in my mid-30s specifically to pursue a career in lab animal medicine. Lab animal people (be they vets or otherwise) are a very passionate bunch. You won't find anyone lukewarm working in this industry.

It is your right, OP to support animal research or not. Before casting your vote, however, I implore you to educate yourself on the facts and speak to professionals actively involved in caring for lab animals. Please consider the countless human and animal lives that have been saved as a result of this sacrifice, and decide whether this important work is justified. When you do, be sure that you can look the victims/families of cancer, AIDS, sickle-cell anemia, and dozens of devastating diseases in the eye when you hand down your judgment.

Please feel free to contact me directly or post your questions/comments here. Laboratory animal medicine is my life and love. I am more than happy to engage in thoughtful dialog.

@kcoughli is another individual committed to the welfare of research animals. Anything to add? I'd welcome your input and perspective.
 
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@kcoughli is another individual committed to the welfare of research animals. Anything to add? I'd welcome your input and perspective.

I very much could not have said it better (as evident by my very terse initial reply). Other than to add from my own personal experience: In high school I gave a very moving speech (for speech class) about how I didn't believe animals should be used in research and how cruel and heartless it was.

Now that I'm older, wiser, and far more informed I know how important the use of animals in research is to continuing medical advances for both human and animal diseases. And now I hope to one day become a lab animal vet, a job that supports research on animals. As a lab animal vet, my greatest goal will be to see that the animals I am responsible for receive the best possible care, treatment, housing, life that we can give them while still contributing to the advancement of science and ensuring that their welfare is always taken into account.

Honestly I mostly just got upset at the OP's casual offhanded remark about the use of animals in research being "cruel." It felt like a personal attack against my chosen profession and all the people involved with animal research. Which is why I initially only responded as I did. @Lab Vet 's response was much more informative and helpful, so thanks for stepping up 🙂
 
Yes research is very complex for these ethical issues. There is no right and wrong per se but a need to be able to scientifically justify one's protocol and animal use. Business is for making money not helping animals. It's tough to work in any setting... The FDA has the two animal rule meaning no new drugs will be approved without in vivo efficacy testing. The AWA, PHS, OLAW are the act, policy, and bodies that guide and govern animal welfare so that the business people are not overseeing the animals. You're absolutely right to be offended by research, I only hope the research is justified and the rewards are greater than the sacrifices.
I literally cannot parse out what you are trying to say, but I feel I should be offended based on the comments I bolded above.
 
I'm a little concerned that I'm feeling a little insulted/sensitive about that statement as well. Yes the businesses want to earn money for their work, as we all do. It's important to remember though that at the end of the day most of these people go home to a little furry creature they love and remember how important their job is. I've found to be true regardless of whether you're a business person in one of these drug companies or a veterinary representative. I also just don't want to believe the worst in people too frankly, we get far too much of that in our field from the general public
 
I literally cannot parse out what you are trying to say, but I feel I should be offended based on the comments I bolded above.
Sorry I did not mean to offend you when I said animal testing is cruel. It's just that the vet I worked with over the summer basically told me that with the level of technology today, testing medicine on animals is unnecessary. Something about using detatched tissue instead can yield the same results
 
Sorry I did not mean to offend you when I said animal testing is cruel. It's just that the vet I worked with over the summer basically told me that with the level of technology today, testing medicine on animals is unnecessary. Something about using detatched tissue instead can yield the same results
Unfortunately that is just not the case. No in vitro model can yet replicate the full intricacies of a living system and all the complexities that that entails. Maybe in a few more decades we can come closer, but only time will tell.
 
I'm by no means an expert, and I don't want to be a lab vet, but I did write a 20 page paper on the Veterinarian's Oath and research welfare in undergrad. I'm not sure what this vet is talking about, but cell lines and other forms of in vitro research are not currently acceptable for common pharmaceutical experimentation. In vet school, our physiology textbook is a human one. their systems function much like ours, and that's what makes them an appropriate model for deciding the efficacy of drugs. And as @Lab Vet said, a lot of things are done to ensure welfare.
 
Sorry I did not mean to offend you when I said animal testing is cruel. It's just that the vet I worked with over the summer basically told me that with the level of technology today, testing medicine on animals is unnecessary. Something about using detatched tissue instead can yield the same results

Was he talking about actual medical/pharmaceutical/biologic testing or simply things like testing cosmetic items like lotion and makeup? The latter I agree with, it's becoming unnecessary - however, animal testing is absolutely needed for actual drug development.

I work with organ explant models, among many other things, and they are in no way representative of a full biological system. Good for preliminary data and benchtop research? Sure. But if you need to test safety and efficacy of medicines and procedures entering into the actual medical world, you need to put it through an actual living organism 99% of the time.

Of course, there are very fancy things happening with high-level tissue models - but these models are still quite new, undercharacterized, and very, VERY expensive - the vast majority of researchers simply cannot afford to use these complicated, delicate (did I mention expensive??) models.

If he or she was actually talking about biomedical research (as opposed to simple cosmetic product testing, like I said) the vet who told you that is sorely misinformed and trying to give you an inaccurate picture of animal research.
 
I literally cannot parse out what you are trying to say, but I feel I should be offended based on the comments I bolded above.

The fact that they deleted the post means they likely aren't brave enough to actually try and explain themselves anyway. I hate it when people are childish like that. If you're going to put forth your opinion, stick with it.

Edit: Probably a troll anyways. Has gone back and edited almost every single post they have made in this forum into one or two word nonsense. Even their posts from years ago. Wow.
 
Yeah, I do stuff like that. After several days I'll edit this too...

Probably said something along the lines of I support a challenge to the whole animal research is necessary propaganda assuming they're willing to come up with other technologies. Also business and welfare responsibilities are segregated to help prevent welfare abuses blah blah bah. You get the picture. Coming from research I find it important to remember animal use protocols are scientifically justified and this varies based on your IACUC, which can even vary meeting to meeting. It's important in ethically murky situations to continually ask is this the best option and challenge it.

Well, of course. That's what the IACUC is for.

Sometimes it isn't a matter of willingness to find a more advanced (i.e. non-animal) model, but it is a question of a) scientific relevance, b) proof that the model is at least comparable to in vivo studies, and 3) cost. With the funding situation nowadays, most labs simply can't afford these cutting edge technologies to replace animal studies - compounded with the fact that many of these models are still in development. If a drug is going into the human medical supply chain, it needs to not only be proven safe but efficacious, and we are not at the point yet where we can create non-animal biological systems in which to test them. Using animals in research isn't propoganda, - it is still a necessity in the vast majority of research. Do I wish we could use fewer or none at all? Sure. I think everyone would agree to that. But it's pie-in-the-sky thinking to assume that we are at that point now and using animals is outdated.

This is especially true the case in research of veterinary diseases, where it is difficult to find funding anyways and we have not advanced as far as human-focused research. We are nowhere near creating or being able to afford creating valid high-level non-animal models for many porcine, equine, avian, etc. diseases - we need to use the animals themselves to study them.
 
it doesn't matter whether you edit it or not. Once posted, it's on google archives forever.

there is simply no way to make new medications without animal usage. We may eventually get there, but we aren't there yet.
 
Yeah, I do stuff like that. After several days I'll edit this too...

Probably said something along the lines of I support a challenge to the whole animal research is necessary propaganda assuming they're willing to come up with other technologies. Also business and welfare responsibilities are segregated to help prevent welfare abuses blah blah bah. You get the picture. Coming from research I find it important to remember animal use protocols are scientifically justified and this varies based on your IACUC, which can even vary meeting to meeting. It's important in ethically murky situations to continually ask is this the best option and challenge it.
Might be worth considering what you are saying before posting from here on out, rather than regretting it and trying to change it later. Can't do that in the real world. Even in the online world, screenshots are a very real thing and you should remember that anytime you post on Facebook, Twitter, or anything where you're identity isn't hidden (or even where you think it is, but people probably know exactly who you are anyways...such as SDN 😉).

Also...if you're truly passionate about something, stick by your ideas (as long as you're not being an a** about it) and be open to friendly, respectful debate rather than just deleting what you've said to cover up the fact that you were
a) a jerk (not that I think you were, fyi)
b) making really unresearched, terribly misinformed arguments.

There will always be people that disagree with you. You can learn a lot just by hearing out the views and ideas that others have, especially when you start to realize you may have no idea what you're talking about after all.
 
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