Case Western vs Texas A&M

[actin_a_fool]

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Preface: I’ve been accepted to several different programs which I’ve narrowed down to Case Western and Texas A&M. I actually felt comfortable going with A&M until the announcement about Step 1 P/F came out. I work as hard as anyone I know and have always done well on standardized exams (520 MCAT) so I made the decision to go to lower-ranked A&M thinking that a strong Step 1 score would help me stand out when it comes to residency application. With Step 1 becoming P/F, I now am questioning this decision.

About me: My specialty interests lie in surgery. While I don't know what yet, my shadowing experiences have shown me that plastics, neuro, and CT are fields I want to explore further. I'm completely open to the idea that I'll want to do something different so please don't comment about how I'm being narrow-minded or that I need to quit gunning - I want to make sure I am well qualified to go into any specialty when the time comes so that I can be competitive in my desired field, whatever it is. I also have a family (a wife + 2 daughters) which is my major pull to A&M (explained below).

Case Western
Pros
+The Cleveland Clinic. I have an interest in gaining a strong backbone in research and CC is as good of a place as any to do it.
+Prestige/Match list.
+Curriculum: I was extremely impressed with how it is carried out and think it has very little (if any) waste.
Cons
-Tuition (~$65,000/year).
-I don't necessarily care for Cleveland, nor have I ever lived in Ohio. With a family, we would be moving to a completely different location where we know no one. My wife is extremely social and I don't worry about her finding a support group but it would need to be developed. She would also need to relocate her small business.

Texas A&M
Pros
+Tuition (~$19,000/year)
+Location/Support System: We currently live nearby and my parents will live about 3 hours away. My wife is a T1 diabetic so knowing family/others can help if she gets sick removes a significant worry.
Cons
-The match list isn't like Case's but they usually have students match into top programs for plastics/derm/neuro. I'm very worried about how Step 1 becoming P/F will affect this and is my major concern.
-Clinical experience: Again, not like Case's, but it isn't bad. I'll do rotations at a level 1 trauma center and have the chance to do home rotations in everything except CT.

Cost of living is about the same for both and both have an 18-month curriculum that will allow additional time for Step 2CK prep now that a higher emphasis (probably) will be placed on this.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance.

 

[thegrind33]

As another person who got into tamu this cycle here are my two cents. A&M has a great match list, one of the best in texas, and is the reason why I choose it over other state schools (obv not a match list above utsw and baylor). The step one will probably get replaced with step 2 CK and according to the interview packet they gave us their step 2 CK average is around a 244, which will get your foot in the door at a lot of places. I wouldn't say tamu is close to a top tier but its solidly mid-tier, and their residency director ranking of 4th in the state of Texas shows that. I do not think the step one p/f will have any impact on the ability to match well from tamu, as tamu will help you get in the door at competitive and solid state residency programs. With that being said, I would personally go with Case. Case will be able to get you into super competitive IVY residencies that tamu might not. Now, I am coming out of college and going right into med school without a family so your dynamics are different. But the prestige and brand power that Case brings is hard to turn down, but choosing tamu over Case is not detrimental or a bad idea as a&m will more than likely get you where you want to be, but I would still lean Case. Hope this helped and if you choose tamu I'll see you in July 🙂

 

[walterwhite3556]

Texas A&M. This would be a no brainer for me. Your wife and daughters will be thanking you in 10 years.

 

[TwoHighways]

The way Cleveland clinic leadership attempted to blacklist Eric Topol over shedding light on the dangers of Vioxx would be cause for concern. I don’t know if anyone in leadership at CC at the time is still around today, but it’s something I’d look into before committing to Case.

 

[SleazySalesMed]

The way Cleveland clinic leadership attempted to blacklist Eric Topol over shedding light on the dangers of Vioxx would be cause for concern. I don’t know if anyone in leadership at CC at the time is still around today, but it’s something I’d look into before committing to Case.

Ok, I'm gonna bite. How exactly would this impact someones probable 4 year tenure as a medical student at Case?

OP: If flexibility/match was your only concern, I'd say Case hands down. I'm also accepted at Case Western if that adds any type of validity. Personally, I wouldn't want to raise a family in Cleveland. And your wife's health sounds like it'd be better handled back home. You mentioned potential specialty match, but you didn't say where. If you're looking to return to Texas or stay in the area, I would again choose A&M

 

[rune2h]

If your goal is a surgical subspecialty, then CWRU is the best choice here, by far. Especially given the upcoming changes in step1. Honestly, these two schools are not even in the same league in terms of extracurricular opportunity afforded, clinical sites, and flexibility.

Some of the strongest surgical residencies affiliated with CWRU are at University Hospitals, not at Cleveland clinic.

The real question here is: do you care more about matching into exactly what you want at the programs you want, or the comfort of a place you already know, where you already have a support system? Only you can answer that.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Ok, I'm gonna bite. How exactly would this impact someones probable 4 year tenure as a medical student at Case?

OP: If flexibility/match was your only concern, I'd say Case hands down. I'm also accepted at Case Western if that adds any type of validity. Personally, I wouldn't want to raise a family in Cleveland. And your wife's health sounds like it'd be better handled back home. You mentioned potential specialty match, but you didn't say where. If you're looking to return to Texas or stay in the area, I would again choose A&M

Lol even if it were true it shouldn’t affect one’s decision at all.

But it’s also not true. Topol left when he wasn’t made CEO and Cosgrove (a world famous surgeon his own right) was. They were rivals before Cosgrove was made CEO and it made sense Topol wouldn’t want to work under him. Also Steve Nissen, one of the most famous cardiologists in the world, former time 100 most influential people, writer of many NEJM and NYT articles was also among the first and most famous opponents/whistleblowers when it came to Vioxx and is still very much there, thriving, and sharing the story of how he takes on pharma.

Op do whatever you want but please don’t listen to that kind of noice. Case will make it easier to keep options open down the line (location for residency, speciality, academic vs private career, etc all stay very open), but if you know you want to stay in Texas long-term and be near support can’t see why A&M wouldn’t be a fine choice for that goal.

 

[licensed to ill]

If you know you want to live your life/raise your family in Texas, then go to A&M and don't look back. If you wanna do academics at a big hospital on the coasts, yea maybe Case would facilitate that better, but if you and your partner have long-term plan of living in Texas, then A&M sounds like it'll let you set up the connections to allow you to stay for residency in Texas, regardless of specialty you end up picking.

For what it's worth, my personal opinion on cost of attendance, is that anything that is going to be an over 80- $100K (or more) difference in terms of debt is not worth it/where I would draw the line.

 

[actin_a_fool]

Hey everyone, thanks for your responses. Like @SleazySalesMed and @seeinghowitgoes said, the Vioxx issue (whether true or not) won't affect my decision as it would be extremely unlikely to affect my experience as a medical student. However, thanks @TwoHighways for bringing it up as it is something to consider. @thegrind33 I'll see you there.

One of my goals as a resident is to attend a great program that will prepare me to make a difference in academic medicine through research and innovation. My fear was that attending a middle tier program would keep me out of an elite residency position - after thinking about it for a while, if a residency director is going to be more concerned with where I went to medical school than what I bring to the table, I would be fine not attending that program. That isn't meant as a dig at any programs where prestige is considerably important, rather its just the reality that I wouldn't want to do long years of residency at a program with a director and fellow residents that are hyperfocused on prestige/brand value. When that time comes, I'm sure that there are residency programs available that will provide great opportunities ("prestigious" or not).

Someone replied (but then deleted) a comment about Texas A&M not posting their match list and how that should be a reason for concern. I had the same thought but was quite surprised when I saw the match lists at interviews. A&M regularly matches students into competitive specialities such as neuro/plastics/derm at big name programs, even into some big name programs. Their match list isn't crazy like that of NYU, Case, Harvard, etc., but it is definitely more than what I expected. I wanted to put that out there in case any future students considering A&M wondered.

TLDR; I'm going to A&M. It's a much better situation for my family and that outweighs the prestige factor. Also, 200k+ more in debt made the decision easier.

 

[TwoHighways]

Lol even if it were true it shouldn’t affect one’s decision at all.

But it’s also not true. Topol left when he wasn’t made CEO and Cosgrove (a world famous surgeon his own right) was. They were rivals before Cosgrove was made CEO and it made sense Topol wouldn’t want to work under him. Also Steve Nissen, one of the most famous cardiologists in the world, former time 100 most influential people, writer of many NEJM and NYT articles was also among the first and most famous opponents/whistleblowers when it came to Vioxx and is still very much there, thriving, and sharing the story of how he takes on pharma.

Op do whatever you want but please don’t listen to that kind of noice. Case will make it easier to keep options open down the line (location for residency, speciality, academic vs private career, etc all stay very open), but if you know you want to stay in Texas long-term and be near support can’t see why A&M wouldn’t be a fine choice for that goal.

FWIW, Malachi Mixon is who Topol named in a recent interview. No real dog in this fight and I’m sure there is all sorts of shady things going on at other hospitals and medical schools regarding collusion with big pharma. OP seems to have a strong internal locus of control, which will likely assure success regardless of institutional prestige. Good luck to you OP.