Celibacy

[Smilemaker100]

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I had an interesting chat on the phone with one of my gal pal's tonight. We were discussing the issue of celibacy.

I was wondering...what makes a woman decide to become a nun (other than a higher calling)? Is it possibly also because she has been so heartbroken and deceived by men that she has given up and gone this route?

I actually have a male friend who has confided in me that he has absolutely no sexual interests (in either men or women) and wants to devote his life to intellectual, philanthropic and spiritual pursuits. Does anyone else know of people like this? Sometimes, I wish I could be more like this friend...it must be quite liberating not desiring the opposite sex/sexual relations...it must be liberating not to deal with the uncertainty of it all.

 

[myfavred]

I had an interesting chat on the phone with one of my gal pal's tonight. We were discussing the issue of celibacy.

I was wondering...what makes a woman decide to become a nun (other than a higher calling)? Is it possibly also because she has been so heartbroken and deceived by men that she has given up and gone this route?

I actually have a male friend who has confided in me that he has absolutely no sexual interests (in either men or women) and wants to devote his life to intellectual, philanthropic and spiritual pursuits. Does anyone else know of people like this? Sometimes, I wish I could be more like this friend...it must be quite liberating not desiring the opposite sex/sexual relations...it must be liberating not to deal with the uncertainty of it all.

I don't believe it is because they are deceived by men or fed up by men that they decide to become nuns. Because not every man is deceiving. Plus usually every one has at least one good man example in her life. For me it is my father, my uncles, my best friend.
I think it is a calling, a need, a search for truth. Very much like medicine, as women in medicine tend to marry late but, they wouldn't give up their love for medicine to get married. It is the same thing. We might not be able to understand their reasoning, but for them it will make sense. Personally I know I will never do it because in my religion marriage is highly emphasized.

I think if someone decides to become a nun because they are heart broken then their reasoning is not correct because then they are not doing it for God. They are doing it out of hopelessness with men or His creation. This could also mean that it probably won't last long. So in my opinion it can only be done due to a calling.

 

[Smilemaker100]

I don't believe it is because they are deceived by men or fed up by men that they decide to become nuns. Because not every man is deceiving. Plus usually every one has at least one good man example in her life. For me it is my father, my uncles, my best friend.
I think it is a calling, a need, a search for truth. Very much like medicine, as women in medicine tend to marry late but, they wouldn't give up their love for medicine to get married. It is the same thing. We might not be able to understand their reasoning, but for them it will make sense. Personally I know I will never do it because in my religion marriage is highly emphasized.

I think if someone decides to become a nun because they are heart broken then their reasoning is not correct because then they are not doing it for God. They are doing it out of hopelessness with men or His creation. This could also mean that it probably won't last long. So in my opinion it can only be done due to a calling.

I agree with everything you said. However, in olden times, especially in large Catholic families, it was expected that at least one son choose to be a priest as a vocation and that one daughter (especially those that were old maids) would become a nun. I know so because my mother was unmarried till later in life and in the society she grew up in,an unmarried woman of a certain age would either stay and live with her parents ( whom she would look after till they died) or become a nun...it was kind of unconventional for women to have fully fledged careers and be independent. Having a priest and /nun in the family was a source of pride.

 

[alison_in_oh]

I agree with everything you said. However, in olden times, especially in large Catholic families, it was expected that at least one son choose to be a priest as a vocation and that one daughter (especially those that were old maids) would become a nun. I know so because my mother was unmarried till later in life and in the society she grew up in,an unmarried woman of a certain age would either stay and live with her parents ( whom she would look after till they died) or become a nun...it was kind of unconventional for women to have fully fledged careers and be independent. Having a priest and /nun in the family was a source of pride.

Clearly the prosaic answer is just as you say. Women become nuns and adopt the associated ascetic lifestyle because it's expected. My mother always felt shadowed by her sisters, "the pretty one" and "the nun". Both were deserving of lots of pride and bragging by the mother, while the gangly tomboy got lost in the shuffle among all the other siblings.

The more lofty answer though is that becoming a bride of God must involve some sacrifice in order to hone the spiritual depth of the vocation. Priests and nuns are celibate because it's difficult, not because they're sexless. If the latter were the case, we'd have eunuchs or hermaphrodites in spiritual positions as is the case with some older religions.

I'm sure you're aware that the "failure rate" of priests in their thirties is astronomically high. The same is true of their sisters in the faith. In fact I know of at least one case in which a priest and nun fell in love and left the church to be together. These people are human, with human urges, and sometimes they can be overpowered by them.

 

[myfavred]

Clearly the prosaic answer is just as you say. Women become nuns and adopt the associated ascetic lifestyle because it's expected. My mother always felt shadowed by her sisters, "the pretty one" and "the nun". Both were deserving of lots of pride and bragging by the mother, while the gangly tomboy got lost in the shuffle among all the other siblings.

The more lofty answer though is that becoming a bride of God must involve some sacrifice in order to hone the spiritual depth of the vocation. Priests and nuns are celibate because it's difficult, not because they're sexless. If the latter were the case, we'd have eunuchs or hermaphrodites in spiritual positions as is the case with some older religions.

I'm sure you're aware that the "failure rate" of priests in their thirties is astronomically high. The same is true of their sisters in the faith. In fact I know of at least one case in which a priest and nun fell in love and left the church to be together. These people are human, with human urges, and sometimes they can be overpowered by them.

I know of a priest and nun who fell in love she had three kids with him. They never got married because he couldn't stay priest but she stopped being a nun. But they were in love till his death, he became an alcholoic and died young. Sad story I know their first daughter. This is how I know about it.

 

[Smilemaker100]

Clearly the prosaic answer is just as you say. Women become nuns and adopt the associated ascetic lifestyle because it's expected. My mother always felt shadowed by her sisters, "the pretty one" and "the nun". Both were deserving of lots of pride and bragging by the mother, while the gangly tomboy got lost in the shuffle among all the other siblings.

The more lofty answer though is that becoming a bride of God must involve some sacrifice in order to hone the spiritual depth of the vocation. Priests and nuns are celibate because it's difficult, not because they're sexless. If the latter were the case, we'd have eunuchs or hermaphrodites in spiritual positions as is the case with some older religions.

I'm sure you're aware that the "failure rate" of priests in their thirties is astronomically high. The same is true of their sisters in the faith. In fact I know of at least one case in which a priest and nun fell in love and left the church to be together. These people are human, with human urges, and sometimes they can be overpowered by them.

As always, very eloquently written, Alison_in_oh. I agree that priests and nuns can't deny that they have human urges. If they don't know how to deal with this reality appropriately, there are trajic consequences as evidenced by such award nominated films like :
(P.S I am in no way generalizing the lives of those belonging to religious orders by citing these films but simply pointing out that there is a dark side that exists)

1) the Mexican film "El Crimen De Padre Amaro" (2002) (The Crime of Father Amaro) in which a priest falls in love with a young woman which ends in trajedy (highly recommend this one which was Academy Award nominated for Best Foreign Film)
http://www.alamedafilms.com/padreamaro/home_eng.htm

2)the Canadian 2 part TV docudrama "The Boys of St Vincent" (1993)which deals with apparent accounts of sexual molestations on orphans by priests

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/B/htmlB/boysofstv/boysofstv.htm

3) The very trajic love story between a priest and a bourgeoise Argentinian in the movie "Camilla" (1984) (nominated for an Academy Award in the Best Foreign Film category) which is a true account of the lives of Camila O'Gorman and Ladislao Gutierrez, a Jesuit priest, who lived in the mid-19th century. One of the most trajic movies I have ever seen-and to make an even stronger statement, I would even say it was more trajic than the most trajic of the Shakespearean plays 🙁

http://www.spiritualityhealth.com/newsh/items/moviereview/item_8898.html

A detailed account of the story...(very interesting from a historic perspective)

http://www.irishargentine.org/julianello.htm

Can you tell that I am a "film buff" , Alison_in_oh ? 😀

 

[podarski]

I know a lady who had 8 kids and the father was a priest. I think a lot of these people who take a vow of celibacy aren't really all that celibate