Chances at BU or Georgetown SMP

[premed2013]

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I have a 2.99 Overall GPA and a science GPA of 2.65 from Middlebury (chem-biochem major). Through two years of my undergrad, I had a 3.5. However, my transcript is filled with C's and D's my last two years because I lost motivation and all my confidence in my ability to do well in science. I studied hard for the MCAT and scored a 32. I would really like to have just one opportunity to prove myself and to medical school that I am capable. I plan to apply to SMP programs like Georgetown and BU for the 2014 year, not this coming fall. Do i have a shot at any of these top SMP programs? I am concerned because my overall GPA is below 3.0 and my science GPA is absolute garbage. Please provide feedback.

 

[SavantFtw]

Any research, volunteering, good story behind the GPA, ability to express fluently to explain? MCAT looks solid. I think you have a chance even with subpar GPA.

 

[premed2013]

I have 3 years of undergraduate research. I dont have publications but I have several presentations done at symposiums. I have been a chemistry tutor and lab assistant. I have done some volunteering at two hospitals. I don't really have a good story to explain/justify my GPA drop the last two years. When does Georgetown start accepting applications for the 2014 year? I want to apply as early as possible

 

[darklabel]

I have 3 years of undergraduate research. I dont have publications but I have several presentations done at symposiums. I have been a chemistry tutor and lab assistant. I have done some volunteering at two hospitals. I don't really have a good story to explain/justify my GPA drop the last two years. When does Georgetown start accepting applications for the 2014 year? I want to apply as early as possible

Any summer classes to push that 2.99 to a 3.0?

If so, then you should have a great shot.

 

[common man]

you should definitely take some upper level science classes between now and the time of your SMP application. 3-4 in the fall 3-4 in the spring. if it helps you get in to the smp and perform well, it will also help you get into med school after the SMP because there is SOME numerical component to all of this. for example, this may not apply to you, but I am applying to DO schools and plenty of schools have minimum GPA cut offs of 2.7.

 

[2spooky4me]

BU takes recent coursework into heavy consideration. Georgetown might just screen you out before even reading your application. As other posters have suggested, taking upper level science courses immediately (and doing well) should be your next step.

 

[MDforMee]

I have a 2.99 Overall GPA and a science GPA of 2.65 from Middlebury (chem-biochem major). Through two years of my undergrad, I had a 3.5. However, my transcript is filled with C's and D's my last two years because I lost motivation and all my confidence in my ability to do well in science. I studied hard for the MCAT and scored a 32. I would really like to have just one opportunity to prove myself and to medical school that I am capable. I plan to apply to SMP programs like Georgetown and BU for the 2014 year, not this coming fall. Do i have a shot at any of these top SMP programs? I am concerned because my overall GPA is below 3.0 and my science GPA is absolute garbage. Please provide feedback.

Whatever you do, it might be better for you to come up with a more compelling reason for why your grades were low during your final 2 years of school.

What classes did you take during your first 2 years, exactly? What were your grades in the prereq chem, organic chem, physics, and bio classes?

 

[premed2013]

I graduated in May 2013. Where should I take upper level science courses to push my GPA over 3.0. Most of my pre-requistes are B's with a couple of A-. The last two years, the classes that really brought my average down were biochem, pchem, quant, and molecular biology.

 

[deleted248403]

Whatever you do, it might be better for you to come up with a more compelling reason for why your grades were low during your final 2 years of school.

+1

The last two years, the classes that really brought my average down were biochem, pchem, quant, and molecular biology.

As of right now, objectively, someone would look at your grades and say you can handle basic sciences fine, but upper level stuff - not so much. Which really doesn't bode well for medical school - which is as you can imagine, all upper level and way beyond sciences.

Figure out what you did wrong/why you are going to succeed in medical school based on this trajectory. And have something meaningful to say when you invariably get asked about this.

 

[premed2013]

What do you guys suggest I do to improve my application for Georgetown/BU SMP?

 

[Adnap]

I think your best course is to do a academic enhancer post-bac program. Get your cumulative GPA above 3.2 and your science to at least 2.9. You'll probably have to retake your MCAT since it's going to take you 1-2 years to boost your GPA up so be prepared for that too. If you can reach the target GPA before then, that's great too.

The post-bacc is highly recommended because of your downward trend. You need to show the adcoms that you have learned from your mistakes before you even consider a SMP. With your grades right now, a SMP program will probably not help you much. Even if you get a 4.0 in a SMP, your undergrad GPA and downward trend would be very very hard to overlook.

If you're considering DO, then maybe a DO SMP would accelerate the process a little. If you want MD, do a post-bac until you reach your target GPA then apply for a SMP. It's going to take a few years, but it's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it.

Good luck!

 

[justalittlestar]

I personally would shoot for DO if I were you -- even though that route would still probably include applying to a few DO SMPs that have a reputation of retaining their students/linkage. Getting to a 3.2 like Adnap suggested might not be all that easy once you start looking at all the additional undergrad credits you'd have to take to get there. Not to mention you'd benefit from retaking a few of those Cs and Ds if you went DO. Not saying MD is out of the question but it'd be a bit tougher I think.

 

[ssj4vinh]

BU's website says the min GPA req is 3.3 for this program right?

 

[premed2013]

What are some well known DO SMPs?

Also, can you explain on this? "The post-bacc is highly recommended because of your downward trend. You need to show the adcoms that you have learned from your mistakes before you even consider a SMP. With your grades right now, a SMP program will probably not help you much. Even if you get a 4.0 in a SMP, your undergrad GPA and downward trend would be very very hard to overlook."

Isn't SMP a post-bacc program? Are you saying I should get my GPA up before I apply to SMP?

 

[Dhally]

BU's website says the min GPA req is 3.3 for this program right?

I don't belive so, I called them and the person I talked to said bare minimum is 3.0

 

[Dhally]

Hey guys, I was also wondering what are my chances into both of those programs. I finished with a gpa of 3.26, science gpa of 2.8 (counting my first semester d- in general chem, which I have since gotten an A in), I am planning on taking the MCAT soon so hopefully, god willing, begging, praying, for 30+. I have over 700 hours volunteer at a major hospital in my area and I am currently a student research assistant to a big research institute (Ear infections, Dr. Pichichero, if any of guys have heard of him). So please be brutal, nothing but the truth. I would like to get into an MD but I know myself that I don't have the qualifications met so a good SMP is my next choice. Thank you

 

[justalittlestar]

What are some well known DO SMPs?

Also, can you explain on this? "The post-bacc is highly recommended because of your downward trend. You need to show the adcoms that you have learned from your mistakes before you even consider a SMP. With your grades right now, a SMP program will probably not help you much. Even if you get a 4.0 in a SMP, your undergrad GPA and downward trend would be very very hard to overlook."

Isn't SMP a post-bacc program? Are you saying I should get my GPA up before I apply to SMP?

There's not too much to explain. That post was saying that schools might see your undergrad GPA and screen you out even with 4.0 gpa in an SMP. I'm sure that's true for a lot of schools. It's not easy.

The sticky threads on the front page of the forum at the top will answer most of your questions about SMP vs Postbacc.

 

[JSReed]

I have over 700 hours volunteer at a major hospital in my area and I am currently a student research assistant to a big research institute (Ear infections, Dr. Pichichero, if any of guys have heard of him).

Name dropping on SDN: definition of gunner, you should probably cut that out first

 

[Adnap]

What are some well known DO SMPs?

Also, can you explain on this? "The post-bacc is highly recommended because of your downward trend. You need to show the adcoms that you have learned from your mistakes before you even consider a SMP. With your grades right now, a SMP program will probably not help you much. Even if you get a 4.0 in a SMP, your undergrad GPA and downward trend would be very very hard to overlook."

Isn't SMP a post-bacc program? Are you saying I should get my GPA up before I apply to SMP?

You're correct. SMP's are a specific type of post-bacc program. I should have clarified and said that I would recommend a academic enhancer post-bacc program where you would take undergraduate classes to boost your AMCAS GPA. Once you get your GPA up, then I would apply for a SMP program. SMP's are academic enhancer programs where you are basically "auditioning" for medical school by taking medical school courses and a few other master's level courses. SMP's will not raise your undergraduate GPA and will instead show as a separate GPA.

That's why you probably need to improve your undergrad GPA before even applying to a SMP. Most of the more popular SMP's are also somewhat competitive to get into so that's another reason to improve your undergrad GPA.

If you're going the DO route, then your GPA can jump up a LOT quicker since they have the grade replacement policy. Retake all of the classes that you screwed up in and then your GPA will hopefully jump up.

Hey guys, I was also wondering what are my chances into both of those programs. I finished with a gpa of 3.26, science gpa of 2.8 (counting my first semester d- in general chem, which I have since gotten an A in), I am planning on taking the MCAT soon so hopefully, god willing, begging, praying, for 30+. I have over 700 hours volunteer at a major hospital in my area and I am currently a student research assistant to a big research institute (Ear infections, Dr. Pichichero, if any of guys have heard of him). So please be brutal, nothing but the truth. I would like to get into an MD but I know myself that I don't have the qualifications met so a good SMP is my next choice. Thank you

A good SMP would require somewhat decent numbers. You have to get a MCAT score above 30. There's no other choice.

Honestly, I think that you might be able to get into these programs (not immediately, but maybe off the waitlist). However, there's a huge caveat. You're going to need to hope that another school will accept you after you do well in those programs. BU and GU med schools have a LOT of students and they look at both your undergrad and your SMP GPA. Even with a 4.0, they're not going to overlook your undergrad GPA. Therefore, I believe that your chances of getting into BU and GU even after a 4.0 in their respective SMP's are very slim. Do well in the programs and apply very broadly if you choose this route.

Here's the brutal truth since you asked for it. 🙂

ECs mainly count after you have a decent set of numbers. I think adcoms like to see more leadership. 700 hours vs. 200 hours in a hospital doesn't make much of a difference. You likely did and saw the same things. You're a SRA to a doctor which is great, but they're going to look for publications and presentations. There's a myriad of students who are SRAs to big docs and have done nothing.

Programs that I think would be more fitting for you include RFU, possibly EVMS, and UToledo. If you can get into one of those, I would go to those over BU and GU.

 

[premed2013]

1. What are the different types of post-bac programs available?

Essentially there are 3 different types of post-bac programs:

1. Basic Sciences - this type of program is for people who have not completed the basic requirements for medical school and usually are people who majored in something else in college and decided to go into medicine later. The coursework can be done in a formal post-bac program, ie Bryn Mawr program, or on your own at your local university. This is discussed further later in the FAQ.

2. Advanced Sciences/"GPA Boosters" - this type of program is designed for people who were science majors or who finished the basic science requirements already and i) want to "stay on their game" academically on glide year or before applying to med schools, or ii) feel they need to raise their GPA to become a more competitive medical school applicant. This can also be done at formal programs, or on your own.

3. Special Masters Programs - these programs are one-year masters degrees (usually) that allow you to earn an MS in biomedical sciences or a related field. They are usually done by people who have a science background and are looking to make their application more competitive, for GPA or other reasons.

SO what is the difference between 2 and 3? Both are concerned with GPA. It seems like I will have to do 2 and 3. How many years and financial cost will I have to commit if I want to go the MD route? I was hoping to apply by summer of 2015. I still need to know how I can increase my GPA so I can apply for SMP. Once I get my GPA up I plan to apply for SMP for 2014-2015. After completing a one year SMP, apply for medical school so I can start in 2016. Is this a realistic timeline.

LASTLY, why would getting a 4.0 in a SMP like georgetown or BU not help? Shouldn't doing well in courses in which you are compared to medical students show that you are capable regardless of the grades you received in undergrad?

 

[BoSox fan]

I think EVMS has taken some students with a below 3.0 GPA into their post bacc program. Its a great way to get into medical school.

 

[premed2013]

Do you think I will be competitive for EVMS and is it harder to get in their program if you are oos?

 

[Adnap]

SO what is the difference between 2 and 3? Both are concerned with GPA. It seems like I will have to do 2 and 3. How many years and financial cost will I have to commit if I want to go the MD route? I was hoping to apply by summer of 2015. I still need to know how I can increase my GPA so I can apply for SMP. Once I get my GPA up I plan to apply for SMP for 2014-2015. After completing a one year SMP, apply for medical school so I can start in 2016. Is this a realistic timeline.

LASTLY, why would getting a 4.0 in a SMP like georgetown or BU not help? Shouldn't doing well in courses in which you are compared to medical students show that you are capable regardless of the grades you received in undergrad?

It really depends on you. One year of an academic GPA enhancer will probably boost your GPA to the bare minimum for some SMPs. Two years might get you to around to slightly below average for some of the SMPs if you do well. So we're thinking...2015 and then apply for SMP...start 2016 and apply while in the SMP...so probably matriculate into med school in 2017 IF...big IF...everything goes according to plan.

If you're considering DO, then you can probably boost your GPA enough in 1 year because of the grade replacement policy and matriculate in 2016.

I think EVMS has taken some students with a below 3.0 GPA into their post bacc program. Its a great way to get into medical school.

Times have changed. EVMS had students with very high numbers and it'd be super rare to find anyone with sub-3.0 GPA. Since they've almost doubled their class, I would think that the expectations would be similar to UCinn in terms of who they take.

Do you think I will be competitive for EVMS and is it harder to get in their program if you are oos?

EVMS is 50% IS and 50% OOS. You'll have to see the outcome of the MM2014 class before you know. I would think that you might have a better shot at RFU and UToledo. Their average GPA is probably around 3.3-3.4 though and I think EVMS boasts around a 3.4 average. I could be wrong though.

 

[vancoxsta]

If you are concerned about your GPA being below the cut off for whichever school, call admissions and ask them if it's okay. They'll tell you yes or no. I know a few people who have gotten into SMPs with sub 3.0-GPAs and gotten into MD programs, but of course, the rest of their applications were extremely redemptive.

 

[JSReed]

If you are concerned about your GPA being below the cut off for whichever school, call admissions and ask them if it's okay. They'll tell you yes or no. I know a few people who have gotten into SMPs with sub 3.0-GPAs and gotten into MD programs, but of course, the rest of their applications were extremely redemptive.

I applied to SMPs (GT, Cinci, BU, Tufts, VCU, Drexel) with a 2.9 and it did not seem to be a problem for any of them, despite all of them listing their minimum as 3.0. That being said, everything else on my app was on a med school standard.