Chances of II for this cycle

[the Mannis]

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Hello,

With New Year's in a few days, I'm worried about my chances for this cycle. I currently have one II upcoming for an in-state school (I currently work in a lab at this school, gap year). ~8 rejections. Still waiting to hear back from ~20 schools. What are my chances for getting any more II's? LM 80. Most of the stat-centric schools have been silent (U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford).

I'm also wondering about sending update letters. I'm writing a paper with a PI from undergrad. The abstract was accepted for peer review, and the paper will be submitted by March. I don't know if this can be included in an update since it hasn't been accepted for publication. I submitted most secondaries from late August to mid-September.

Any responses are appreciated.

 

[jarednogeek]

I feel like you had a bad school list or bad EC’s/LORS or some other red flag. An II this late would be an exception and not the norm. You should be preparing to reapply until you get an A

 

[vaticrunner]

Yeah, we will need to know a little more about EC’s and essays to provide any semblance of advice.

 

[the Mannis]

Yeah, we will need to know a little more about EC’s and essays to provide any semblance of advice.

I recently talked to one of the committee members from my college and asked if there were any red flags in the essays from individual letter writers or if the committee thought there were any red flags overall. She couldn’t think of anything, but is going to look over my file again and give more feedback.

For EC’s, I have >250 clinical hours, between volunteering and shadowing. Good research and student teaching experiences. Non-clinical is weak, only 60 hours. A couple jobs during the summers of college. Have a freshman I.A. for underage drinking, one W freshman year.

If one school sent an II, I don’t think I could have a death-sentence red flag. With academic numbers, clinical and research, I expected to have a better cycle so far. It would be easier if there was a clear red flag.

 

[5yewy5r]

I recently talked to one of the committee members from my college and asked if there were any red flags in the essays from individual letter writers or if the committee thought there were any red flags overall. She couldn’t think of anything, but is going to look over my file again and give more feedback.

For EC’s, I have >250 clinical hours, between volunteering and shadowing. Good research and student teaching experiences. Non-clinical is weak, only 60 hours. A couple jobs during the summers of college. Have a freshman I.A. for underage drinking, one W freshman year.

If one school sent an II, I don’t think I could have a death-sentence red flag. With academic numbers, clinical and research, I expected to have a better cycle so far. It would be easier if there was a clear red flag.

It’s probably from relatively weak clinical exposure and non-clinical volunteering. How much/what kind of student teaching experience? And would you say your app is research-focused?

 

[chaim123]

I'm also wondering about sending update letters. I'm writing a paper with a PI from undergrad. The abstract was accepted for peer review, and the paper will be submitted by March. I don't know if this can be included in an update since it hasn't been accepted for publication. I submitted most secondaries from late August to mid-September.

Just to respond to this - anyone can submit a paper. It's only update worthy if your paper is accepted for publication.

 

[Blanky]

I hope you are strengthening those weak ECs for next cycle as half the year is over.
Also, I'm not sure how the Etoh IA is going to hurt.

 

[libertyyne]

You needed to apply earlier. You were probably marked complete in late Sept early Oct. It is still possible that you will get IIs.

 

[candbgirl]

Just to respond to this - anyone can submit a paper. It's only update worthy if your paper is accepted for publication.

The paper hasn’t actually been written.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I currently have one II upcoming for an in-state school (I currently work in a lab at this school, gap year). ~8 rejections. Still waiting to hear back from ~20 schools. What are my chances for getting any more II's? LM 80. Most of the stat-centric schools have been silent (U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford).

Your secondaries were in a little late. When were you marked complete?

You mention a lot of reaches. What non-reaches did you apply to?

Does your state only have one public med?

And what is the breakdown of that LM80

For EC’s, I have >250 clinical hours, between volunteering and shadowing. Good research and student teaching experiences. Non-clinical is weak, only 60 hours. A couple jobs during the summers of college. Have a freshman I.A. for underage drinking, one W freshman year.

That IA may be a serious issue.

What exactly was your volunteering? What was your community involvement? How many hours for this?

 

[chaim123]

The paper hasn’t actually been written.

Then definitely not update worthy

 

[the Mannis]

Your secondaries were in a little late. When were you marked complete?

You mention a lot of reaches. What non-reaches did you apply to?

Does your state only have one public med?

And what is the breakdown of that LM80



That IA may be a serious issue.

What exactly was your volunteering? What was your community involvement? How many hours for this?

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

The dates I listed were when almost all secondaries were marked complete.

I didn’t think those schools were considered reaches if my GPA & MCAT (3.90 & 523,130/130/132/131) are higher than their medians. State has a few public schools, haven’t heard back yet from the other two I applied to.

The adcoms on this forum say a freshman I.A. for drinking isn’t an issue, but maybe schools view it differently. It was only a warning, they said it wouldn’t go on my record.

Volunteered in emergency Dept at hospital by my college. The community service was soup kitchen and being a part of a service-oriented club.

Non-reaches (not super high stats)
Case Western
Rochester
Emory
Pitt
St. Louis
Dartmouth
Ohio St
Virginia
Hofstra
Einstein
Jefferson
3 state schools

 

[Goro]

Hello,

With New Year's in a few days, I'm worried about my chances for this cycle. I currently have one II upcoming for an in-state school (I currently work in a lab at this school, gap year). ~8 rejections. Still waiting to hear back from ~20 schools. What are my chances for getting any more II's? LM 80. Most of the stat-centric schools have been silent (U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford).

I'm also wondering about sending update letters. I'm writing a paper with a PI from undergrad. The abstract was accepted for peer review, and the paper will be submitted by March. I don't know if this can be included in an update since it hasn't been accepted for publication. I submitted most secondaries from late August to mid-September.

Any responses are appreciated.

A submission is not update worthy. Update if it's accepted for publication.

You should always be planning on improving your app from the moment of submission because until you get that accept email in your Inbox, you're rejected.

You could get an II next week or in March., but realistically, I wouldn't count on any more.

 

[DokterMom]

It's certainly not your numbers, so I'm going to guess you came off (on paper or in your LORs) like someone who might not be an altruistic and compassionate "people person" who can relate well to others. (You've heard the "4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen" bit.)

Focus your spring on proving this possible perception wrong. I'd suggest volunteering with the developmentally disabled, elderly or Alzheimer's patients where your humanity will be stretched and your compassion fully utilized.

 

[the Mannis]

It's certainly not your numbers, so I'm going to guess you came off (on paper or in your LORs) like someone who might not be an altruistic and compassionate "people person" who can relate well to others. (You've heard the "4.0 automatons are a dime a dozen" bit.)

Focus your spring on proving this possible perception wrong. I'd suggest volunteering with the developmentally disabled, elderly or Alzheimer's patients where your humanity will be stretched and your compassion fully utilized.

Okay. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

I would have to say that your high stats, coupled with comparatively weak EC/clinical hours is doing you in. The very competitive schools expect significant research or amazing EC work, in addition to great stats. And some of your "non-reach" schools, including the 2 state schools, are probably engaging in yield protection, figuring that students with your stats USUALLY go elsewhere (which they do). I think you should prepare to apply again, and meanwhile work as hard as you can to develop your EC/research/clinical hours - in ways that you really care about. You want to impress schools with a story that is genuine, not created. In this way, the schools that interview and accept you will be great fits and not just great schools. If you see yourself as an engaged and committed researcher who wants to do research in the future, then you need to buff up your research and have some presentations at national meetings and submit manuscripts to peer-reviewed journals. If you see yourself as a clinician, then do what you enjoy in the clinical world to get more experience. In your EC's, find some leadership roles - successful applicants to "top" schools with your stats start NGO's, etc; they do more than just ladle soup. IMO, your problem is the discrepancy between your stats and the rest of your application. But you are young and have time - this from someone who took 5 yrs between college and med school. (and back when it was much easier to get in!)

 

[altblue]

I feel like you had a bad school list or bad EC’s/LORS or some other red flag. An II this late would be an exception and not the norm. You should be preparing to reapply until you get an A

The OP should definitely be preparing to reapply, but around 16 percent of IIs still remain. It's certainly a possibility they get one even if it's not especially strong

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

The dates I listed were when almost all secondaries were marked complete.

I didn’t think those schools were considered reaches if my GPA & MCAT (3.90 & 523,130/130/132/131) are higher than their medians. State has a few public schools, haven’t heard back yet from the other two I applied to.

The adcoms on this forum say a freshman I.A. for drinking isn’t an issue, but maybe schools view it differently. It was only a warning, they said it wouldn’t go on my record.

Volunteered in emergency Dept at hospital by my college. The community service was soup kitchen and being a part of a service-oriented club.

Non-reaches (not super high stats)
Case Western
Rochester
Emory
Pitt
St. Louis
Dartmouth
Ohio St
Virginia
Hofstra
Einstein
Jefferson
3 state schools

If the IA was only a warning, were you required to report it? Since it sounds like you did, did you describe it as a warning?

Regardless of your high stats, schools like U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford are reaches.

Your MCAT is balanced...amazingly balanced!

Surprised that you haven’t heard from Emory or Dartmouth. The other schools may think that you’re using them as safeties.

Am I crazy to think that sometimes having amazing stats can be a detriment?? 😕 Meaning that the middle/low tier schools are thinking, “she/he would never actually enroll here.” And if so, that mostly leaves the top schools that would take such an app seriously, but already get 6000+ apps.

I think this because a premed that I’m helping is from one of those top schools and has amazing stats and a strong resume; applied early. So far, only his top state med school, a SUNY, has interviewed him. He’s bewildered too.

How many hours did you log for soup kitchen? and hospital? Being part of a service club may not mean much; depends on what you actually physically did. For example: collecting cans for a food drive isn’t as meaningful as 50 hours tutoring low SES high school students for free.

Are your other two state schools lower ranked?

JMHO...but if any of your schools accept updates, and do so. Also, include a sentence or two distinctive to that school so it doesn’t look like an email-blast. It may signal to them that you’re still available and truly interested in THEM.


Asking others: are students like this going to be hurt with the new traffic rules where med schools no longer will see if applicants have acceptances? Schools seem to be so yield-sensitive.

 

[gyngyn]

Schools seem to be so yield-sensitive.

We're not yield sensitive, we're resource conscious.

 

[the Mannis]

I would have to say that your high stats, coupled with comparatively weak EC/clinical hours is doing you in. The very competitive schools expect significant research or amazing EC work, in addition to great stats. And some of your "non-reach" schools, including the 2 state schools, are probably engaging in yield protection, figuring that students with your stats USUALLY go elsewhere (which they do). I think you should prepare to apply again, and meanwhile work as hard as you can to develop your EC/research/clinical hours - in ways that you really care about. You want to impress schools with a story that is genuine, not created. In this way, the schools that interview and accept you will be great fits and not just great schools. If you see yourself as an engaged and committed researcher who wants to do research in the future, then you need to buff up your research and have some presentations at national meetings and submit manuscripts to peer-reviewed journals. If you see yourself as a clinician, then do what you enjoy in the clinical world to get more experience. In your EC's, find some leadership roles - successful applicants to "top" schools with your stats start NGO's, etc; they do more than just ladle soup. IMO, your problem is the discrepancy between your stats and the rest of your application. But you are young and have time - this from someone who took 5 yrs between college and med school. (and back when it was much easier to get in!)

Thank you very much for such a thoughtful response. What you say makes a lot of sense to me. My ECs aren't stellar like a lot of applicants who do get accepted into top-schools, nothing jumps off the page. I thought I had enough research experience (>600 hours, regional presentation), but perhaps not. I think NGOs started by pre-meds are mostly BS. Hopefully, I won't have to apply again but will see.

 

[the Mannis]

If the IA was only a warning, were you required to report it? Since it sounds like you did, did you describe it as a warning?

Regardless of your high stats, schools like U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford are reaches.

Your MCAT is balanced...amazingly balanced!

Surprised that you haven’t heard from Emory or Dartmouth. The other schools may think that you’re using them as safeties.

Am I crazy to think that sometimes having amazing stats can be a detriment?? 😕 Meaning that the middle/low tier schools are thinking, “she/he would never actually enroll here.” And if so, that mostly leaves the top schools that would take such an app seriously, but already get 6000+ apps.

I think this because a premed that I’m helping is from one of those top schools and has amazing stats and a strong resume; applied early. So far, only his top state med school, a SUNY, has interviewed him. He’s bewildered too.

How many hours did you log for soup kitchen? and hospital? Being part of a service club may not mean much; depends on what you actually physically did. For example: collecting cans for a food drive isn’t as meaningful as 50 hours tutoring low SES high school students for free.

Are your other two state schools lower ranked?

JMHO...but if any of your schools accept updates, and do so. Also, include a sentence or two distinctive to that school so it doesn’t look like an email-blast. It may signal to them that you’re still available and truly interested in THEM.


Asking others: are students like this going to be hurt with the new traffic rules where med schools no longer will see if applicants have acceptances? Schools seem to be so yield-sensitive.

Yeah, I described it as a warning and said that my school stated it wouldn't go on my record. 140 hours of volunteering at the hospital. The service club hours mostly consisted of volunteering at the soup kitchen, with planning and running fundraisers comprising the rest of the hours. The one state school is decently ranked, the other is lower. Thank you for your help and taking the time to respond.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

e. I currently have one II upcoming for an in-state school (I currently work in a lab at this school, gap year).

Ok...well, let’s be positive and hope that this interview will ultimately lead to an acceptance.

Would you be happy to attend this SOM?

If so, know its mission. Know/prepare for its interviewing style.

Make sure that your “resting face” is pleasant. Make good eye contact.

Do you know if you’re a good interviewer?

Did you go to this school for undergrad or did you go to a top undergrad?

 

[LonelyBoi]

Do you guys think sending LOIs to the lower-tier/mid-their schools will help OP?

 

[theKingLT]

Am I crazy to think that sometimes having amazing stats can be a detriment?? 😕 Meaning that the middle/low tier schools are thinking, “she/he would never actually enroll here.” And if so, that mostly leaves the top schools that would take such an app seriously, but already get 6000+ apps.

I think this because a premed that I’m helping is from one of those top schools and has amazing stats and a strong resume; applied early. So far, only his top state med school, a SUNY, has interviewed him. He’s bewildered too.

Yield protection is very strange and unpredictable in many cases. I'm a high stat non-URM applicant currently applying and it's been a weird distribution of which schools are interested. I don't have any research experience so I applied to 12 T20 schools and 12 more across the spectrum of MD from T30 to unranked. Ended up with 9 interviews from the T20 group and 3 from the others, but from the very bottom of the list. So none of the schools between the 20th and 90th rank on USNWR wanted anything to do with me but otherwise it's been great

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Yield protection is very strange and unpredictable in many cases. I'm a high stat non-URM applicant currently applying and it's been a weird distribution of which schools are interested. I don't have any research experience so I applied to 12 T20 schools and 12 more across the spectrum of MD from T30 to unranked. Ended up with 9 interviews from the T20 group and 3 from the others, but from the very bottom of the list. So none of the schools between the 20th and 90th rank on USNWR wanted anything to do with me but otherwise it's been great

non-URM
3.9-4.0 gpa from mid-level state university
523+ MCAT
D1 Athlete
research: none
clinical paid: 300-400 hours
clinical volunteer: 500-600 hours
non-clinical volunteer: 100-150 hours
shadowing: 50-75 hours
leadership- leader of two student orgs

I think that the fact that you’re a D1 athlete more than makes up for your lack of research.

Question: those 3 from the bottom of your list....are they instate publics?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Yeah, I described it as a warning and said that my school stated it wouldn't go on my record. 140 hours of volunteering at the hospital. The service club hours mostly consisted of volunteering at the soup kitchen, with planning and running fundraisers comprising the rest of the hours. The one state school is decently ranked, the other is lower. Thank you for your help and taking the time to respond.

How was your PS?

 

[theKingLT]

I think that the fact that you’re a D1 athlete more than makes up for your lack of research.

Question: those 3 from the bottom of your list....are they instate publics?

1 IS public, 1 oos public (but my alma mater) and 1 oos public with no connection.

As for the athletics vs research you're 100% right that it's what has made the difference, but going into the cycle I had much lower expectations. The advice recieved from Adcoms on here ranged from "you may get 1 or 2 T20 interviews if your app is received well" to "don't bother applying to T20". The point is not that they were wrong exactly, but that it can be very hard to predict how schools will react to an app based only on coarse characteristics like X gpa, Y mcat, Z hours of research/volunteering. There is much more subtlety involved in the narrative told by the combination of PS, activities, and secondaries, and when you have relatively low hours and cookie cutter type activities it's very difficult to tell a good story about yourself. I think OP should follow DokterMom's advice and engage in much more volunteering to boost the weak part of the app and help with essay writing. Something like americorp could make a big difference

 

[PreMedMissteps]

1 IS public, 1 oos public (but my alma mater) and 1 oos public with no connection.

As for the athletics vs research you're 100% right that it's what has made the difference, but going into the cycle I had much lower expectations. The advice recieved from Adcoms on here ranged from "you may get 1 or 2 T20 interviews if your app is received well" to "don't bother applying to T20". The point is not that they were wrong exactly, but that it can be very hard to predict how schools will react to an app based only on coarse characteristics like X gpa, Y mcat, Z hours of research/volunteering. There is much more subtlety involved in the narrative told by the combination of PS, activities, and secondaries, and when you have relatively low hours and cookie cutter type activities it's very difficult to tell a good story about yourself. I think OP should follow DokterMom's advice and engage in much more volunteering to boost the weak part of the app and help with essay writing. Something like americorp could make a big difference

People are impressed by D1 athletes who can juggle athletic demands with academics and do well with both. Plus, you’re a “coachable kid” and that’s one of those soft skills that is important.

 

[the Mannis]

Ok...well, let’s be positive and hope that this interview will ultimately lead to an acceptance.

Would you be happy to attend this SOM?

If so, know its mission. Know/prepare for its interviewing style.

Make sure that your “resting face” is pleasant. Make good eye contact.

Do you know if you’re a good interviewer?

Did you go to this school for undergrad or did you go to a top undergrad?

Thanks for the tips. It's about a month away, and I'm starting to prepare for it now. The format is MMI. I think my resting face isn't too bad. I didn't go to a top undergrad. My PI at the school right now used to be on the Admissions Committee, so he may be able to help me prepare for it.

I just want to get into a school this cycle. The worst thing would be having to apply again, but that certainly could happen, given the circumstances.

 

[the Mannis]

1 IS public, 1 oos public (but my alma mater) and 1 oos public with no connection.

As for the athletics vs research you're 100% right that it's what has made the difference, but going into the cycle I had much lower expectations. The advice recieved from Adcoms on here ranged from "you may get 1 or 2 T20 interviews if your app is received well" to "don't bother applying to T20". The point is not that they were wrong exactly, but that it can be very hard to predict how schools will react to an app based only on coarse characteristics like X gpa, Y mcat, Z hours of research/volunteering. There is much more subtlety involved in the narrative told by the combination of PS, activities, and secondaries, and when you have relatively low hours and cookie cutter type activities it's very difficult to tell a good story about yourself. I think OP should follow DokterMom's advice and engage in much more volunteering to boost the weak part of the app and help with essay writing. Something like americorp could make a big difference

Yeah the success of an app isn't as straightforward as a handful of variables. I'm sure your narrative was more compelling than mine, given the results. Congrats on getting so many IIs at top schools.

It seems our ECs aren't that much different besides you being a D1 athlete (this is a big deal of course). You have more volunteer hours, but other than that, our ECs are at least somewhat similar. I think my narrative may not be especially compelling and could have fallen flat with the Adcoms.

 

[the Mannis]

How was your PS?

I thought it was good, and the handful of people who read it and helped edit it didn't have major problems with it. Obviously, their view of it may not at all correspond with how the adcoms read it. The one thing that could be an issue is my pre-health committee. They gave me the second highest rating rather than the highest. They don't look at MCAT scores, which worked against me.

 

[the Mannis]

People are impressed by D1 athletes who can juggle athletic demands with academics and do well with both. Plus, you’re a “coachable kid” and that’s one of those soft skills that is important.

I don't see why being on an athletics team demonstrates coachability any more than working in a lab. It's impressive to be able to handle academics while playing a sport, but I don't think the fact of playing a sport demonstrates a special kind of character trait that others lack. I guess it really helps to stand out in an idiosyncratic way, regardless of the nature of the thing making you uncommon.

 

[theKingLT]

Yeah the success of an app isn't as straightforward as a handful of variables. I'm sure your narrative was more compelling than mine, given the results.

It seems our ECs aren't that much different besides you being a D1 athlete (this is a big deal of course). You have more volunteer hours, but other than that, our ECs are at least somewhat similar. I think my narrative may not be especially compelling and could have fallen flat with the Adcoms.

I agree if it weren't for athletics our apps would be very similar and i would likely be in a similar position to you in terms of interviews and acceptances. The athletics is not just an activity that is looked favorably on but was also a central part of my PS and many secondary essays. It involved a long road of hardship, failure, lessons learned, and eventual success and that's why I was able to successfully use it for many different types of secondary prompts. That's also why I think if you do end up having to reapply (hopefully not ), it would do your app wonders to have a single large, preferably altruistic experience to set you apart and to write about. Americorps was just one example but make it something that interests you!

 

[subdermallight]

You must have been doing something since the summer, you sure you can’t send an update, even if it’s all the more hours you worked in research and briefly discuss the paper? Kind of a ****ty update, and people on here may agree with that, but maybe it’s worth it to send one anyway so the schools know you are interested. Given your high stats, any update at all might just be the reassurance they need to send you an II

 

[PreMedMissteps]

@the Mannis as for my “coachable kid” comment.... Playing a D1 sport for 4 years can demonstrate that one is coachable. Working in a lab is more similar to working a job. It’s still a positive, but not the same. Employees/lab workers don’t usually have someone reviewing (on film, no less!) and critiquing every move you make.

The one thing that could be an issue is my pre-health committee. They gave me the second highest rating rather than the highest. They don't look at MCAT scores, which worked against me.

Could others chime in here.... is it typical for Premed Committees to not consider MCAT scores when assigning ranking? I did notice at least one undergrad’s website that said that they wouldn’t permit a Committee Interview until MCAT scores were known. However, I notice that others don’t seem to require scores.

 

[theKingLT]

I thought it was good, and the handful of people who read it and helped edit it didn't have major problems with it. Obviously, their view of it may not at all correspond with how the adcoms read it. The one thing that could be an issue is my pre-health committee. They gave me the second highest rating rather than the highest. They don't look at MCAT scores, which worked against me.

@the Mannis as for my “coachable kid” comment.... Playing a D1 sport for 4 years can demonstrate that one is coachable. Working in a lab is more similar to working a job. It’s still a positive, but not the same. Employees/lab workers don’t usually have someone reviewing (on film, no less!) and critiquing every move you make.







Could others chime in here.... is it typical for Premed Committees to not consider MCAT scores when assigning ranking? I did notice at least one undergrad’s website that said that they wouldn’t permit a Committee Interview until MCAT scores were known. However, I notice that others don’t seem to require scores.

I don't know what's "typical" but my committee definitely looked at every part of an app except LORs. As far as I know though there was not a formal rating system at my school like OP described. Or at least if there was it was not disclosed to applicants

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I don't know what's "typical" but my committee definitely looked at every part of an app except LORs. As far as I know though there was not a formal rating system at my school like OP described. Or at least if there was it was not disclosed to applicants

I’m no expert on this, but I thought that they all (mostly all?) used a ranking system. Often students are unaware of it.

Rankings can be something like:

Very Highly recommended (maybe the top 10% of their applicants)

Highly recommended. (maybe the next 20%)

Recommended without reservation (maybe the next 30%)

Recommended with reservation (maybe the next 20%)

Not recommended (the bottom 20%)

 

[theKingLT]

I’m no expert on this, but I thought that they all (mostly all?) used a ranking system. Often students are unaware of it.

Rankings can be something like:

Very Highly recommended (maybe the top 10% of their applicants)

Highly recommended. (maybe the next 20%)

Recommended without reservation (maybe the next 30%)

Recommended with reservation (maybe the next 20%)

Not recommended (the bottom 20%)

You could very well be right. I'm not at all knowledgeable on the topic

 

[PreMedMissteps]

You could very well be right. I'm not at all knowledgeable on the topic

Again, I’m no expert, but it would seem to be necessary. Otherwise, what’s the purpose of the CL if everyone gets the “here’s our awesome student” seal of approval. When everyone is deemed “special,” then no one is special.

 

[altblue]

I’m no expert on this, but I thought that they all (mostly all?) used a ranking system. Often students are unaware of it.

Rankings can be something like:

Very Highly recommended (maybe the top 10% of their applicants)

Highly recommended. (maybe the next 20%)

Recommended without reservation (maybe the next 30%)

Recommended with reservation (maybe the next 20%)

Not recommended (the bottom 20%)

Yup, definitely glad my UG doesn't use committee letters.