Chances of Matching?

[cgc217]

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Hi, everyone:

Quick question.

Some background. I'm an M3 that recently passed Step 1 on my second attempt with a 198. From my first attempt, I had a 30 point increase. Plenty of volunteering during M1-M2; leadership positions as well. 5 years of research experience prior to starting med school with publications and abstracts. Have NOT started M3 rotations yet. Passed all my M1-M2 classes. Our school is Pass/Fail.

With that said, what are my chances for matching in Peds any program from non-competitive and up? It's my number one specialty. I say this because of low Step 1 score (sans the 30 point increase from first attempt) which concerns me. Granted I haven't taken Step 2 CK/CS yet or started clinicals but just wanted some input and what I should focus on to help myself be in the best position possible to match.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Rutgers06]

Hi, everyone:

Quick question.

Some background. I'm an M3 that recently passed Step 1 on my second attempt with a 198. From my first attempt, I had a 30 point increase. Plenty of volunteering during M1-M2; leadership positions as well. 5 years of research experience prior to starting med school with publications and abstracts. Have NOT started M3 rotations yet. Passed all my M1-M2 classes. Our school is Pass/Fail.

With that said, what are my chances for matching in Peds any program from non-competitive and up? It's my number one specialty. I say this because of low Step 1 score (sans the 30 point increase from first attempt) which concerns me. Granted I haven't taken Step 2 CK/CS yet or started clinicals but just wanted some input and what I should focus on to help myself be in the best position possible to match.

Thanks in advance for the help!

You still have a chance to match into Peds, but it's tougher with your step 1 score. According to the NRMP program director survey from 2012, there's still a decent amount of programs that would consider your application http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf (Page 127). The good news is that it seems like you have solid extracurriculars/research and will be an AMG which should help.

Going forward, the key things are to do as well as you can during 3rd year, especially during your peds rotation, get great letters of recs and rock Step 2 CK, which is pretty much what everyone should be doing. If possible, try to find a mentor at your school who has a reputation for giving good advice to peds applicants because they may know about specific programs that are more amenable to people in your situation. At my med school it ended up being the program director of our peds program who gave surprisingly good, fairly unbiased advice. When it comes down to applying, you'll definitely want to apply broadly and address your poor step 1 score.

Good luck with 3rd year and don't let your Step 1 experience drag you down.

 

[peds_dolphin]

I have a related question. Passed all M1/M2 exams on first try, low 220s on Step 1, and had high pass just shy of honors in 4/6 clerkships peds included (H in 2/6; my school doesn't designate HP just H/P/F). I'm wondering what my chances are for good peds residency programs. I'm looking for programs with a particular track I like, and found myself with a list full of "top tier" peds programs which I'm thinking I'm probably not competitive for.

With average clinical and academic performance but solid extracurriculars and excellent resident/attending comments in MSPE and letters of rec--what are my chances of getting into these programs--especially since I'm not going for the categorical track?

 

[mvenus929]

I have a related question. Passed all M1/M2 exams on first try, low 220s on Step 1, and had high pass just shy of honors in 4/6 clerkships peds included (H in 2/6; my school doesn't designate HP just H/P/F). I'm wondering what my chances are for good peds residency programs. I'm looking for programs with a particular track I like, and found myself with a list full of "top tier" peds programs which I'm thinking I'm probably not competitive for.

With average clinical and academic performance but solid extracurriculars and excellent resident/attending comments in MSPE and letters of rec--what are my chances of getting into these programs--especially since I'm not going for the categorical track?

You should go for the categorical track whenever possible. You can usually tailor your categorical peds residency to do many of the same things the ones who end up in the tracks do, you just don't have the same clinic or something of that nature. And it's far better to match into a categorical program than not to match at all.

With your stats, you can get into a good program. Whether you can match into a top tier program (CHOP, Boston Children's, Denver, etc) or not is uncertain. Peds programs tend to look at more than just scores--one of my friends applied with a step 1 score of 210 and matched at UCSF, while I, with a score of 219, didn't even get an interview there. They also tend to have really odd trends of inviting people from the outside, so it's hard to predict who is going to get an interview and who isn't.

 

[stevalin]

So I just got my Peds SubI grade and it was a P (we have a H/HP/P/LP system). I got comments such as "hardworking" and "eager" and "being receptive to feedback" but also comments like "needs to work on independently assessing patient needs".

My 3rd year grades weren't that great either - got mostly P's (including Peds M3 clerkship and IM among others) and HP's (Fam Med and Psych).

Step 1 - 225

Just took Step 2CK

Pre-clinicals: P and HP

Lots of leadership/extracurricular experience in med school. Also member of Gold Humanism Honor Society.

Do I have a chance of matching back into CA for peds? Or matching into peds at all? How can I salvage my app?

Thanks for your help!

 

[cgc217]

Hi, everyone:

Quick question.

Some background. I'm an M3 that recently passed Step 1 on my second attempt with a 198. From my first attempt, I had a 30 point increase. Plenty of volunteering during M1-M2; leadership positions as well. 5 years of research experience prior to starting med school with publications and abstracts. Have NOT started M3 rotations yet. Passed all my M1-M2 classes. Our school is Pass/Fail.

With that said, what are my chances for matching in Peds any program from non-competitive and up? It's my number one specialty. I say this because of low Step 1 score (sans the 30 point increase from first attempt) which concerns me. Granted I haven't taken Step 2 CK/CS yet or started clinicals but just wanted some input and what I should focus on to help myself be in the best position possible to match.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Hi, everyone:

I wanted to give an update and gauge you all's opinions. I have completed M3. Am an M4. Passed all my M3 rotations except IM. Repeated it and passed (will show Fail on transcript with a repeat of Pass). I also Honored a yearlong Doctoring Course and Longitudinal Chronic Care rotation. As well as received a Letter of Distinction for my Community Medicine Rotation.

Step 1 (after initial failure) is 198 (30 point increase). Step 2 CS taken (score to come out August 12). Taking Step 2 CK in three weeks. Solid letter writers (will probably have 7 letters of which I will pick and choose which 3-4 to add to programs). Class Community Service Chair. Tons of ECs throughout all four years. Research experience for 5 years pre-starting medical school with three publications/posters.

I am applying (as of now) to 160+ programs to widen my chances in The Match. For what it's worth I am a male, married, Hispanic US medical student.

I love the field of Pediatrics. Kids are so resilient. Becoming a Pediatrician feels "right."

Thank you in advance for all your support and advice. Much appreciated.

 

[Stitch]

You aren't the first person to fail a rotation, and you will be able to find a place to match. You need to narrow down that 160 programs. There's absolutely no point in applying to that many programs, and I'd argue it's wasting your time and the programs' time since you can't possibly go on that many interviews. Instead, apply to a set of programs that you'll have a good shot at getting an interview. Sit down with your local adviser or someone from your peds department and come up with some places. It's okay to have a few long shots, but you also need some solid community type peds programs as well.

 

[22031 Alum]

I'm OB, not peds, but I have looked at a lot of residency applications. You didn't do yourself any favors by failing a clerkship and having to repeat it. Right now your focus should be on passing Step 2 CK on the first attempt- another failure could really sink your app.

The next issue is the fact that you didn't manage to Honors or High Pass (if that is available at your school) any of your clerkships. So your next priority should be to absolutely rock your peds Sub-I- consider doing two. You said you already have good letters, but I'd be concerned about just how good they are if they came from MS3 clerkships you didn't manage to distinguish yourself in. Letters from MS4 rotations carry much more weight in my experience, because that is when you are truly acting as a resident-to-be. MS3s and MS4s have different expectations, and reading a letter that says somebody excelled at MS3 tasks doesn't impress me as much.

It's a good idea to plan to apply very broadly. You should be ready to address your Step 1 and clerkship failures- specifically, why you failed and what you are doing differently to prevent future failures. Program directors will be hesitant if it looks like you will be an academic risk.

Good luck!!

 

[cgc217]

You aren't the first person to fail a rotation, and you will be able to find a place to match. You need to narrow down that 160 programs. There's absolutely no point in applying to that many programs, and I'd argue it's wasting your time and the programs' time since you can't possibly go on that many interviews. Instead, apply to a set of programs that you'll have a good shot at getting an interview. Sit down with your local adviser or someone from your peds department and come up with some places. It's okay to have a few long shots, but you also need some solid community type peds programs as well.

Thank you so much for your advice. Yep. I agree that 160+ is too much. It's just a matter of narrowing it down based on my stats and type of program.

 

[cgc217]

I'm OB, not peds, but I have looked at a lot of residency applications. You didn't do yourself any favors by failing a clerkship and having to repeat it. Right now your focus should be on passing Step 2 CK on the first attempt- another failure could really sink your app.

The next issue is the fact that you didn't manage to Honors or High Pass (if that is available at your school) any of your clerkships. So your next priority should be to absolutely rock your peds Sub-I- consider doing two. You said you already have good letters, but I'd be concerned about just how good they are if they came from MS3 clerkships you didn't manage to distinguish yourself in. Letters from MS4 rotations carry much more weight in my experience, because that is when you are truly acting as a resident-to-be. MS3s and MS4s have different expectations, and reading a letter that says somebody excelled at MS3 tasks doesn't impress me as much.

It's a good idea to plan to apply very broadly. You should be ready to address your Step 1 and clerkship failures- specifically, why you failed and what you are doing differently to prevent future failures. Program directors will be hesitant if it looks like you will be an academic risk.

Good luck!!

Thank you, as well, for your reply. I have done one M4 rotation in which I earned Honors. With respect to the sub-Is, I am doing one. Specifically in the General Inpatient Peds Wards. I also agree that applying broadly BUT smartly is the way to go. And you are right, I am focusing on passing CK on first attempt. While I did not do myself justice with failing IM (it was because of the shelf not the evaluations), I regrouped and passed it the second time all the while changing up my study habits. I learned a lot more (not only the concepts but about myself), and I am fully prepared to explain it and turn the negative into a positive. Thanks again for your advice!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I would say you are more likely to match than not, but you are at risk. Passing CK on your first attempt would go a long, long way to helping show that you have addressed the issues you've had in the past on standardized testing, which I think is going to be any PD's main concern when they review your application--standardized testing is forever going to be a part of your career, including Step 3 in intern year, and eventually your boards, and a PD is going to want to see that they are not taking a flier on someone who is a risk to lower their boards pass rate. More than anything else, I would put everything else on hold and make passing CK your singular goal for the next 3 weeks, as no amount of leadership or research or extracurricular activities that you might be involved in will help your application nearly as much as passing this test would, preferably with some healthy room to spare.

 

[cgc217]

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated. What are your thoughts about the number of programs I should apply to?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated. What are your thoughts about the number of programs I should apply to?

I think in part it depends on your CK score--the higher your score, the more convincing your argument will be that you have addressed whatever issue was holding you back on standardized testing. The baseline I would suggest is 30-40 mainly comprised on community and smaller academic programs, but with a significantly improved score you could justify fewer.

 

[cgc217]

Ok. Got you. Really good advice. For some reason, I thought to myself, "You have this strike against you with standardized testing. So apply to as many programs as you can to maximize your chances of Matching." It's tough...because it's a huge financial burden for my wife and I so decreasing the amount of programs applied to would help. I guess there is no sense to applying to that many programs if my CK score is solid, huh? Haha. For me (and I may be underestimating myself) but a solid CK score would be around 220-225 (it would be a 20 to 25 point increase from Step 1).

 

[cgc217]

Oh. And thanks for your timely responses. I hope to pay it forward one day to others when I'm in your shoes!

 

[GoSpursGo]

Ok. Got you. Really good advice. For some reason, I thought to myself, "You have this strike against you with standardized testing. So apply to as many programs as you can to maximize your chances of Matching." It's tough...because it's a huge financial burden for my wife and I so decreasing the amount of programs applied to would help. I guess there is no sense to applying to that many programs if my CK score is solid, huh? Haha. For me (and I may be underestimating myself) but a solid CK score would be around 220-225 (it would be a 20 to 25 point increase from Step 1).

Well, TBH I think it's mostly about being realistic about the programs you're applying to at this point. I think it's unlikely for you to get into one of the "name" programs in the country--throwing a reach application here or there if you have a connection at one of those programs is fine, but otherwise I think your yield on applications to places like Boston/Cinci/CHLA/Baylor/etc is going to be very low. With that in mind, you should mostly be looking at lower ranked, mostly community or smaller academic programs. And that's fine, you will still get good training and undoubtedly come out a competent pediatrician from many of these community programs--but in general, these programs are not particularly competitive, and even with a couple of red flags I think 30-40 is a fine number to at least get enough interviews to make your chances of matching reasonable.

 

[cgc217]

Well, TBH I think it's mostly about being realistic about the programs you're applying to at this point. I think it's unlikely for you to get into one of the "name" programs in the country--throwing a reach application here or there if you have a connection at one of those programs is fine, but otherwise I think your yield on applications to places like Boston/Cinci/CHLA/Baylor/etc is going to be very low. With that in mind, you should mostly be looking at lower ranked, mostly community or smaller academic programs. And that's fine, you will still get good training and undoubtedly come out a competent pediatrician from many of these community programs--but in general, these programs are not particularly competitive, and even with a couple of red flags I think 30-40 is a fine number to at least get enough interviews to make your chances of matching reasonable.

Thanks so much. Yes. Those top tier programs are a definite long shot. I will take your advice and run with it. Thanks, again, for all your help!

 

[pedstar09]

Throwing in a similar question for all of you and I would be very happy if I got an advice.

AMG, Step 1 in low 200s, taking step 2 CK and CS soon. I have "excellent" "enthusiastic" and "hardworking" comments on MSPE. No failure in M1-M3 years. I think my LoRs will be very good judging from the interaction I have had from those individuals. ECs are strong in my opinion with community involvement, leadership and research.

I have 3 away rotations lined up at the places I really want to go in MA/CT that are not U Mass or BCH: 1 of them peds sub-specialty, 1 of them Peds-Sub I. 2 of these programs are university based and 1 is community based.

My questions are:

1. Should I address low step 1 on my PS?
2. I intend to get one letter from my first away rotations in September. Is that too late? My 1 other letter will be from community peds docs I worked with. 1 from my FM/IM clerkship director who I worked with closely.
Thank you!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I don't think you should bother addressing your step 1 score. I wouldn't address it unless someone actually failed--otherwise, the best way to address it is to take step 2 and show an improvement.

September is fine, though I would try and line one up as early as possible in your rotation so they can start writing it. You can always submit your application on time and then add another LOR when your writer completes it. That's not uncommon.

 

[pedstar09]

Thank you very much kind sir!

I don't think you should bother addressing your step 1 score. I wouldn't address it unless someone actually failed--otherwise, the best way to address it is to take step 2 and show an improvement.

September is fine, though I would try and line one up as early as possible in your rotation so they can start writing it. You can always submit your application on time and then add another LOR when your writer completes it. That's not uncommon.