Change in UCD Admissions Requirements

[dizzim]

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Per UCD Veterinary School Website.

Change in DVM Admissions Requirement Update!

Effective 2010-2011 application period for admission to UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, all students entering Fall 2011 must receive the bachelor’s degree and complete all veterinary school prerequisites by the end of the Spring 2011 term.

Spoke to admissions and this was just passed down about a week ago.
She told me there would be no waivers of this requirement.

Anyone else not plan on getting their bachelor's before they applied like me or am I just crazy?

 

[primatevetjess]

Wow... I guess I lucked out by applying when I did and getting accepted. I don't have a bachelor's degree, and I'm wondering why they've decided to require it. I know at least two other people in my class without bachelor's degrees and all three of us are doing very well in vet school.

 

[thereservoirdog]

That makes it quite a bit harder for older, non-traditionals that try to go the two-year route. Now they need at least four years of full time school. Thankfully I have a bachelor's already so this is no problem for me, but in my opinion, if you can pass the specific pre-reqs for Davis' vet school, which already include english and humanites, what's the need for a bachelor's? Yes, the upper division Bio classes not specifically required for vet school are going to help me, but the general education requirements for a BS are just that, BS. Total waste of time. If Davis wants more well rounded applicants, add more pre-reqs.

Not much of a warning given as well? What's going on here, I've been very unimpressed with Davis' application system. Not only do they take forever to get interview invites out, but for all that work I did applying they simply reject us by email, with no mention of a file-review. Not even a formal letter. And now this.

 

[that redhead]

Per UCD Veterinary School Website.

Change in DVM Admissions Requirement Update!

Effective 2010-2011 application period for admission to UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, all students entering Fall 2011 must receive the bachelor’s degree and complete all veterinary school prerequisites by the end of the Spring 2011 term.

Spoke to admissions and this was just passed down about a week ago.
She told me there would be no waivers of this requirement.

Anyone else not plan on getting their bachelor's before they applied like me or am I just crazy?

Although I think a DVM outweighs a Bachelor's in the end, I think there is some wisdom is obtaining your bachelors if at all possible before going to vet school. Not to say that those without Bachelors aren't as well prepared, but if anything should happen that forced you out of vet school, you'd be left high and dry, especially these days when Bachelors don't mean as much as they once did.

Fortunately for me, I'm on track for my bachelors and pre-requisites by spring 2011 (although the OOS-ness is going to hurt, I'm guessing). Interesting that they decide to require the Bachelor's, though!

 

[dizzim]

The admissions office told me its a matter of the requirement for a DVM being having a bachelor's and the UC system is no longer allowing them to confer a bachelor's after two years in the program. Therefore all entering students need to already have a bachelor's.

I agree with you guys. I've done very well on all my science pre-reqs and overall in classes. Now I have to do another year of school instead of gaining experience.

I at least wish they would have given us some kind of warning that this was coming. Not just add a very large requirement which you cannot get a waiver for 2 months before applications are due.

 

[AuRevoirFinance]

The bachelor's degree isn't a problem for me, since in my case that happened about a billion years ago. However, needing all the prerequisites done by the Spring quarter is a serious bummer. I personally probably have enough time to adjust since I'm not looking to apply until next year but there will need to be some schedule adjustment and cramming to finish that Biochemistry prereq. No way am I putting off applying an extra year, I'm old enough as it is. 🙂

 

[VeganSoprano]

I personally like the way Illinois has their prereqs set up, where you can meet their requirements with (long list of prereqs) *or* (bachelor's degree plus shorter list of prereqs). Lengthy, specific prereqs are especially cumbersome for the older second-career types, many of whom are forced to prioritize work over school while completing prereqs for financial reasons and who, because of their relatively advanced ages, often have the most to lose in terms of opportunity cost if vet school application is delayed.

 

[moosenanny]

Not much of a warning given as well? What's going on here, I've been very unimpressed with Davis' application system. Not only do they take forever to get interview invites out, but for all that work I did applying they simply reject us by email, with no mention of a file-review. Not even a formal letter. And now this.

You might want to be careful what you post on forums, especially if you plan on reapplying to Davis. While we all feel safely anonymous under our username covers, believe me, there are more adcoms lurking on here than you think! I was personally PM'ed by one who thanked me for writing positive things about his school. I know he could tell who I am, despite my user name, so again, think before you criticize!!!

 

[nyanko]

What's going on here, I've been very unimpressed with Davis' application system. Not only do they take forever to get interview invites out, but for all that work I did applying they simply reject us by email, with no mention of a file-review. Not even a formal letter.

Plenty of schools did this. In fact, I didn't get any "formal letters" from schools that I got rejected from this year, really. The only thing I got a snail mail letter from was Penn's VMSTP - everything else was by email or online status check.

I mean, I don't know what else you want from them as far as the notification process goes, I guess.

I agree with you all that it sucks that they'd spring this on you now, but maybe they just got informed of it themselves.

 

[quantized]

All I can make of this change is that the UC system thinks they'll make more money by keeping undergrads in school for the whole 4 years, although I guess maybe there could be something I'm missing there. Odd change at any rate - the svm was pretty proud of their students that came in after three years of undergrads, so this doesn't seem to me like something they thought up.

 

[thereservoirdog]

Nyanko, I know you love to negate people but I was just stating my own opinion. I don't know why you think you have to disprove everything, but I guess that's a good trait to have if you'll be going into research.

I got snail mail letters from every other school I applied to, and it's just a nice formality. It's like getting dumped via text message.

There are quite a few other things that bug me about Davis admissions, and most of that comes from working with Davis grads, but I'll keep them to myself. Wouldn't want to offend anyone.

 

[nyanko]

Nyanko, I know you love to negate people but I was just stating my own opinion. I don't know why you think you have to disprove everything, but I guess that's a good trait to have if you'll be going into research.

Yep, the ability to critically analyze just about anything is definitely a good trait to have in life, regardless of whether you're going into research or not. But you're stating your opinion in a thread that will probably influence the opinions of others and I wanted to give another point of view from the other side. I don't see where the problem with that is.

I've been rejected from UCDavis as well, and at that time the email was about 3 sentences long. I don't recall whether there was anything about a file review in the actual email, but I called, scheduled and went to one so obviously they offer them.

I got snail mail letters from every other school I applied to, and it's just a nice formality. It's like getting dumped via text message.

And personally I'd rather them not waste the paper and postage on snail mail. I like that all communication is via email, personally. It seems more efficient and modern.

There are quite a few other things that bug me about Davis admissions, and most of that comes from working with Davis grads, but I'll keep them to myself. Wouldn't want to offend anyone.

🙄 If you have a problem, I'm sure that they will respond to constructive criticism.

 

[Chaco]

My guess is that the UC system is no longer allowing the SVM to confer a BS after two years, which to me makes a certain amount of sense. I always thought it was sort of odd that two years of veterinary curriculum magically was equivalent to a bachelor's degree, which, when conferred by the main campus, signifies the completion of a specific curriculum of varied subjects. Unless someone sat down and figured out what should be included in a Bachelor of Veterinary Science degree (or whatever it's called these days), then designed the first two years of vet school to meet it, then the current method seems backwards. They take the existing curriculum, or an arbitrary part of it, and name it a degree.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, I'm just pointing out where I could see the UC administration having a problem with it. Or, who knows, maybe it's the licensing people who had a problem with the degrees, since they are the ones that require a bachelor's degree in order to award a DVM.

At any rate, it sucks that the timing is so short notice for the new applicants, but it makes sense that there wouldn't be much notice. Even now, this is three year's notice to the SVM that they can no longer do this (applicants this year would be denied the degree in 3 years if admitted without), and it necessarily reflects backwards down the process to those who are now applying.

 

[primatevetjess]

My guess is that the UC system is no longer allowing the SVM to confer a BS after two years, which to me makes a certain amount of sense. I always thought it was sort of odd that two years of veterinary curriculum magically was equivalent to a bachelor's degree, which, when conferred by the main campus, signifies the completion of a specific curriculum of varied subjects. Unless someone sat down and figured out what should be included in a Bachelor of Veterinary Science degree (or whatever it's called these days), then designed the first two years of vet school to meet it, then the current method seems backwards. They take the existing curriculum, or an arbitrary part of it, and name it a degree.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do this, I'm just pointing out where I could see the UC administration having a problem with it. Or, who knows, maybe it's the licensing people who had a problem with the degrees, since they are the ones that require a bachelor's degree in order to award a DVM.

At any rate, it sucks that the timing is so short notice for the new applicants, but it makes sense that there wouldn't be much notice. Even now, this is three year's notice to the SVM that they can no longer do this (applicants this year would be denied the degree in 3 years if admitted without), and it necessarily reflects backwards down the process to those who are now applying.

They aren't conferring a BS after only 2 years of veterinary curriculum. It's 2 years of veterinary school, but several years of pre-reqs before that. Which, in addition to all of the lower and upper division sciences, includes English classes, humanities and social science classes, and other various classes depending on the school. I have more than enough credits for a biology degree, but took the classes at multiple universities and community colleges.

If the licensing people had a problem with it, UC Davis would not be the only vet school adopting this rule. As far as I know, none of the other vet schools require a bachelor's degree. I applied to 8 schools, and I know that none of them required it. I was accepted to 3, wait listed at one, and declined one interview.

I think that it's a shame, because it's completely eliminating a pool of non-trads that don't have the time or money to obtain a bachelor's.

 

[nyanko]

If the licensing people had a problem with it, UC Davis would not be the only vet school adopting this rule. As far as I know, none of the other vet schools require a bachelor's degree. I applied to 8 schools, and I know that none of them required it.

I think that what she meant was that UCDavis is now, due to orders from the UC system, not permitted to confer a BS after 2 years of veterinary study whereas the other schools still are. So UCDavis would run into the licensing problem (a BS being required for a DVM) whereas the others wouldn't, because their governing rules still allow the BS to be obtained.

At least, that's the way I interpret it.

 

[squibby]

I think that it's a shame, because it's completely eliminating a pool of non-trads that don't have the time or money to obtain a bachelor's.

I've been told that most everyone who gets in to Davis has a degree already anyway. From the published C/O 2014 stats, everyone in that class has at least a bachelor's degree.

 

[primatevetjess]

I think that what she meant was that UCDavis is now, due to orders from the UC system, not permitted to confer a BS after 2 years of veterinary study whereas the other schools still are. So UCDavis would run into the licensing problem (a BS being required for a DVM) whereas the others wouldn't, because their governing rules still allow the BS to be obtained.

At least, that's the way I interpret it.

Ok, it sounds to me like she thinks maybe the "licensing people" have a problem with the bachelor degrees given after "only" two years of vet school. Which is ridiculous, or all of the schools would have to adopt this change.

It's just a touchy subject because I don't have a degree and I've definitely received my fair share of people thinking I'm not good enough for vet school because of it. And the program at the community college I went to grooms non-trad students to gain entry to Davis without a degree (four were admitted to the class of 2013) and now I'm not sure what's going to happen to it.

 

[nyanko]

It's just a touchy subject because I don't have a degree and I've definitely received my fair share of people thinking I'm not good enough for vet school because of it.

Well you know where those people can go. 😉

I really think it's mostly just a case of the UC system trying to squeeze every last dollar and year out of students that they can, like quantized said.

 

[squibby]

I really think it's mostly just a case of the UC system trying to squeeze every last dollar and year out of students that they can, like quantized said.

Nyanko, following in your spirit of refutation, I disagree.

How much does another year of tuition for the tiny number of applicants, currently attending a CA public school, in their third year of college, who actually get in, add up to? I doubt much. They won't be retaining all of the students they are excluding.

I think there is so much s**** going on in the state's school systems that there's no way for us to really know.

Does anyone know about human med schools in the state and whether they require a bachelor's? Has this change affected them too?

 

[nyanko]

How much does another year of tuition for the tiny number of applicants, currently attending a CA public school, in their third year of college, who actually get in, add up to? I doubt much. They won't be retaining all of the students they are excluding.

You're probably correct, and many of the students will just go elsewhere. However, I find it hard to believe that there is some more nefarious reason behind this than "we think we can get more money this way, so we're doing it this way."

Does anyone know about human med schools in the state and whether they require a bachelor's? Has this change affected them too?

From what it looks like on UCSF's site, they can still offer a baccalaureate degree after the first year of the med school curriculum. However, they have a higher units requirement for admission consideration. UCD's own med school does not comment on if they confer a bachelor's degree, but has a similar requirement for three years of college coursework. And since medical schools have a much more rolling admissions process, I assume that means 3 years completed at time of application.

edit: Since theirs is after the FIRST year, perhaps if this change affects them it won't affect them until next admissions cycle.

 

[No Imagination]

(a BS being required for a DVM)

I am not following - Why and where does it say a BS is required for a DVM? Or is that some UC-Davis specific rule?

 

[nyanko]

I am not following - Why and where does it say a BS is required for a DVM? Or is that some UC-Davis specific rule?

I don't know whether this policy exists or not but it is a necessary corollary to my interpretation of Chaco's post. (aka the only way her posts makes sense as I read it is that this requirement exists) I'm just trying to follow logic here, not making any statement as to the veracity of any claim.

edit:

Or, who knows, maybe it's the licensing people who had a problem with the degrees, since they are the ones that require a bachelor's degree in order to award a DVM.

 

[nyanko]

Sorry to make another post, but I just kind of put two and two together.

UC Davis is implementing a new curriculum for the class of 2015 (I don't know what's out there about it, but they voted on an integrated block structure and I sort of wish it were implemented for our class!). There has been an ongoing dialog/struggle between the UC system, the main UC Davis campus and the SVM regarding the level of involvement the campus/system should have in governing the SVM curriculum. One of the main sticking points of the campus is that they are operating under a bit of a "loophole" as it were, the fact that academic senate has authority over professional school curricular matters IF THE PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL ALSO OFFERS UNDERGRADUATE COURSES OR DEGREES.

So now, I'm assuming the reason why they are tossing out the Bachelors has something to do with the adoption of the new curriculum and wanting to maintain more autonomy in governing it.

(and yes, the current UCD SVM Bylaws do state that a Bachelors is required for awarding of a DVM)