Cheating... Is it out of control?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

WorldChanger36

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
3,008
Reaction score
678
I have notice lately alot of the grad student and post Doc students have been having major issues with cheaters as of late. I know this because I work in the lab with most of them and we have long conversations about it to pass to time. I also have notice friends, some pre-med some not plagerising the same reports for ecology lab and physiology and wonder how the hell they can take the risk. The department head is so sick of cheaters that he wants a perment F on the transcript for the class and the person expelled from the university. Even though these consequences are out there cheating is at an all time high. Talking about how it is wrong to do so is hugely taboo and the biggest cheaters brag about how hard they worked for it.
For the pre-meds that do this at least in my school they find the MCAT prevents them getting into med school because they can't get the score they want and quit.
I was wondering is cheating really bad at other schools as well or is it that my school just makes it too easy to get away with?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Its pretty easy to get away with if you do it right. I personally prefer writing stuff down on the table before the instructor passes exams out. Other people use cell phones (idk how they pull that off), write stuff on their hands. You can get pretty creative with it.
 
Its pretty easy to get away with if you do it right. I personally prefer writing stuff down on the table before the instructor passes exams out. Other people use cell phones (idk how they pull that off), write stuff on their hands. You can get pretty creative with it.


So common where you go to school as well. Do you know if these types often hold a strong GPA through continuous cheating or is this just a limited event? At my school this stuff has been going on for years and still people do it and deny it after getting caught red handed. Some even have there parents call the school to justify the behavior. I mean having great grades is awesome and I can understand the motivation to cheat but eventually it catches up to people.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Im not too sure about other people. Personally my first two years were really bad, cheating never really helped me then, but when I finally picked up the pace, I only cheated at exams where I knew I was unprepared. My gpa had a sharp upward increase from a 2.8 to a 4.0, 90% work 10% cheating for me. That ratio is better than most people.
 
I have notice lately alot of the grad student and post Doc students have been having major issues with cheaters as of late. I know this because I work in the lab with most of them and we have long conversations about it to pass to time. I also have notice friends, some pre-med some not plagerising the same reports for ecology lab and physiology and wonder how the hell they can take the risk. The department head is so sick of cheaters that he wants a perment F on the transcript for the class and the person expelled from the university. Even though these consequences are out there cheating is at an all time high. Talking about how it is wrong to do so is hugely taboo and the biggest cheaters brag about how hard they worked for it.
For the pre-meds that do this at least in my school they find the MCAT prevents them getting into med school because they can't get the score they want and quit.
I was wondering is cheating really bad at other schools as well or is it that my school just makes it too easy to get away with?

Wow, something is up with your undergrad institution if there's that much cheating going on. At my school there's not much cheating from what I can see. Cheaters never prosper, good thing there's the MCAT holding them back. We don't want a bunch of cheaters being our physicians.
 
Wow, something is up with your undergrad institution if there's that much cheating going on. At my school there's not much cheating from what I can see. Cheaters never prosper, good thing there's the MCAT holding them back. We don't want a bunch of cheaters being our physicians.

people cheat, the end. cheating doesn't necessarily hold these people back from doing well from the mcat either.
 
Im not too sure about other people. Personally my first two years were really bad, cheating never really helped me then, but when I finally picked up the pace, I only cheated at exams where I knew I was unprepared. My gpa had a sharp upward increase from a 2.8 to a 4.0, 90% work 10% cheating for me. That ratio is better than most people.

:troll:
 
As a high school teacher, I see it a lot in my AP class. At least, I did at the beginning of the year.

Since then I've cracked down on it a lot. I check the tables (writing on the table is definitely in style this year). I have them roll up their sleeves and turn their hands over. There is one student I even have him take apart his pen, because one time I found notes rolled up on his desk as I passed by, and it turned out they were inside his pen.

They obviously can't get expelled from high school for it (at least not where I'm from), but I'm trying to instill in them that cheating is wrong. We'll see how that translates to college...
 
Wow, something is up with your undergrad institution if there's that much cheating going on. At my school there's not much cheating from what I can see. Cheaters never prosper, good thing there's the MCAT holding them back. We don't want a bunch of cheaters being our physicians.



It is a real freaking problem and has only been getting worse. Peer presure to cheat is huge as well. I know the MCAT can't block all cheaters but it does a good job at slowing them down. Some people just see undergrad as a game being all about the numbers and are not interested in learning any thing. Yeah, it sucks because I don't cheat and I feel like it weaken the value of my education and my soon to be profession.
 
Wow, something is up with your undergrad institution if there's that much cheating going on. At my school there's not much cheating from what I can see. Cheaters never prosper, good thing there's the MCAT holding them back. We don't want a bunch of cheaters being our physicians.

Very funny. According to our ethics class, a self survey of medical students nationwide, over 50% admitted to cheating during med school.
 
people cheat, the end. cheating doesn't necessarily hold these people back from doing well from the mcat either.

I didn't intend for my statement to be so absolute. Yeah people who cheat might still do well on the mcat due to good prep, but if a person is cheating and not necessarily learning the material at the same time then their chances of scoring well (I would think) would be seriously reduced.

Very funny. According to our ethics class, a self survey of medical students nationwide, over 50% admitted to cheating during med school.

My previous statement just shows how naive I am. I would think that a lot of medical students wouldn't cheat even if given the opportunity. I'm not trying to be on a moral high horse or anything, I am just surprised.
 
Wow, something is up with your undergrad institution if there's that much cheating going on. At my school there's not much cheating from what I can see. Cheaters never prosper, good thing there's the MCAT holding them back. We don't want a bunch of cheaters being our physicians.

HAHA. You go to UCI. Trust me when I say there's a crap load of cheaters there.
 
It is a real freaking problem and has only been getting worse. Peer presure to cheat is huge as well. I know the MCAT can't block all cheaters but it does a good job at slowing them down. Some people just see undergrad as a game being all about the numbers and are not interested in learning any thing. Yeah, it sucks because I don't cheat and I feel like it weaken the value of my education and my soon to be profession.

The best way to keep students from cheating is to make cheating as difficult as possible. Never use an exam twice and only have exams in heavily proctored exam halls. If you MUST have essay assignments and lab reports everything needs to get run through turnitin.com or a similtar site, and even still the bulk to the grade should come from written or oral exams. When I've seen a lot of cheating is when the professors were lazy/stupid/trusting.

If it helps, I have no idea how you would cheat in medical school, or at least how you would cheat enough to significantly influence your grade. Everything here is sandardized scantron tests in a room full of proctors. You will eventually need to make it on your own.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
The best way to keep students from cheating is to make cheating as difficult as possible. Never use an exam twice and only have exams in heavily proctored exam halls. If you MUST have essay assignments and lab reports everything needs to get run through turnitin.com or a similtar site, and even still the bulk to the grade should come from written or oral exams. When I've seen a lot of cheating is when the professors were lazy/stupid/trusting.

If it helps, I have no idea how you would cheat in medical school, or at least how you would cheat enough to significantly influence your grade. Everything here is sandardized scantron tests in a room full of proctors. You will eventually need to make it on your own.


Actually it does help to know that... Thanks Perrotfish
 
I got my BA in 2003 at a small liberal arts school and I noticed almost zero cheating in any of my classes. I just took some post bac classes at a different school and was shocked at the cheating. Despite all the profs efforts to move people to different desks, make them take off their hats, leave their back packs up front, sit every other desk etc. It was ridiculous I would look up and someone would literally be turned around in their seat reading the persons test behind them. Totally shameless. I was embarrassed for them.
 
Is cheating out of control? hmm (psssssssssssssst, anyone got an answer?!)
 
The answer to cheating is simple. Adopt a rigid honor code. It could be done anywhere. Work out the kinks this year, implement it next year. If the faculty and the student body don't want to tolerate cheating, they don't have to. You lie, cheat, or steal you're out. That's it, found guilty = go home in disgrace. Throw a dozen cheating deadbeats out in the first couple months and word will get around quick. Problem solved. This system has worked in many universities for more than a century, one for almost 2.
I had an honor code in college and medical school. Amount of witnessed cheating? None in 8 years. Did people cheat? Of course, but it was behind closed doors. If they got caught they're done. Several students got kicked out every year, and two got tossed from my medical school class. It was quite a scandal. One was letting the other copy their take home projects in the 1st year. Perhaps they were products of honorless undergraduate programs where rampant cheating was the norm. I'm sure it was a profound wake up call.
There is no room for cheating and short cuts in a career where lives are on the line.
 
As a high school teacher, I see it a lot in my AP class. At least, I did at the beginning of the year.

Since then I've cracked down on it a lot. I check the tables (writing on the table is definitely in style this year). I have them roll up their sleeves and turn their hands over. There is one student I even have him take apart his pen, because one time I found notes rolled up on his desk as I passed by, and it turned out they were inside his pen.

They obviously can't get expelled from high school for it (at least not where I'm from), but I'm trying to instill in them that cheating is wrong. We'll see how that translates to college...
Pfff....amateurs. I remember writing stuff on the top of my desk using just my eraser. You could only see it when the light reflected off of it at a certain angle so you could just tilt your head a little bit to read it. High school days were fun.

I wouldn't dare try to cheat now though. The penalties are much more severe, not to mention I'd be doing myself a disservice by not actually learning what I was supposed to.
 
Already had two people expelled from my university for cheating. All it takes is one time to get caught, not worth it to me. You're there to learn. So do it.
 
Cheating in high school is one thing, I can can of understand the immaturity involved and lack of judgment. But if one is cheating in college there is absolutely no excuse. By the time you are in college you are a couple steps away from having a "set" personality (approximately age 22 or so). This meaning that the cheaters now most likely will be this way forever, or unless something drastic happens to make them change their ways. Either way it is not good for one who wants to be a doc.

I just don't understand it really, college is a choice. It you don't want to learn, you don't freaking have to. I have the same attitude about people who talk, text, etc., during class. What a waste of time, money, and a seat for someone who would appreciate it.

Okay, stepping down off high horse now, but seriously, that shiznit really gets to me.
 
The answer to cheating is simple. Adopt a rigid honor code. It could be done anywhere. Work out the kinks this year, implement it next year. If the faculty and the student body don't want to tolerate cheating, they don't have to. You lie, cheat, or steal you're out. That's it, found guilty = go home in disgrace. Throw a dozen cheating deadbeats out in the first couple months and word will get around quick. Problem solved. This system has worked in many universities for more than a century, one for almost 2..

My experience has been that no tolerance policies for cheating tend to be disasters unless they're enforced with an Orwellian disregard for personal privacy (i.e. the Military). People who might have otherwise reported cheating won't except in the most extreme cases because they institutional response is so out of proportion to the crime, and meanwhile the institution ruins a couple of basically innocent lives every year by expeling some poor kid who made a small mistake (often not what you would have traditionally called cheating, more like collaborating on a homework project) and who didn't have that basic natural dishonesty to lie his way out of it.
 
My experience has been that no tolerance policies for cheating tend to be disasters unless they're enforced with an Orwellian disregard for personal privacy (i.e. the Military). People who might have otherwise reported cheating won't except in the most extreme cases because they institutional response is so out of proportion to the crime, and meanwhile the institution ruins a couple of basically innocent lives every year by expeling some poor kid who made a small mistake (often not what you would have traditionally called cheating, more like collaborating on a homework project) and who didn't have that basic natural dishonesty to lie his way out of it.

If the clear expectation is that you are to do the work alone, or with no aids, or whatever, and you don't... Nice knowing you. The institutional response is absolutely appropriate if you are knowingly and willingly held to a higher standard than most and you deliberately violate that standard. The honor code was no secret, everyone is aware of their expectations, and what the penalty is for failing to uphold their end of the agreement.
It works, and quite well. You don't get kicked out for bouncing a check at the student bookstore, you don't get kicked out for failing to properly cite a reference. You get kicked out for blatant (and provable) plagiarism, cheating, theft, etc. No innocents are getting railroaded, no helpless students lives ruined for nothing. You get a hearing, with evidence, testimony, etc. You have a chance to defend your actions, present your own evidence, etc. Too hungover to go to the library and finish that busywork project for intro to European Post War Reunification, maybe you could just lift your fraternity brothers answers off the house computer, wake up - that's cheating. You don't like it, just go to another school and take your chances. I take great pride in the honor system, and was fortunate to be able to attend Universities that felt the same. If I need a crib sheet to remember the physics formulas, Krebs cycle, differential equations, etc, I deserve to fail. If you want to bring a crib sheet into a test, where you affirm on your honor that you didn't give or receive aid on the exam, you deserve to be expelled. There's no room for academic dishonesty in medicine. I'd rather work with 100 imbeciles than one dishonest resident. He's far more dangerous. To me and the patient.
When I was an undergrad, I flew out of town for a long weekend, my flight got cancelled, and I was going to miss an exam. I called the professor and explained the situation. His response, "No problem, you can take it the following day in my office." Same test, 24 hours later, no problem. Guess what was in labelled folders on his desk? Everyone else's exam. He left as soon as he handed me the exam and said to leave it on his desk. Why would someone do this? The honor code. Someone above mentioned heavily proctored med school exams. We could take the exam anywhere we wanted, the lecture hall, library, lab, lobby, home, anywhere, as long as it was back by the designated end time, and we signed the pledge. No pledge, no grade. I really don't know why more universities don't implement a real honor system. It benefits everyone. People who never experienced it find it an alien concept, but people that lived it wouldn't want it any other way.
 
Last edited:
Someone above mentioned heavily proctored med school exams, we could take the exam anywhere we wanted, the lecture hall, library, lab, lobby, home, anywhere, as long as it was back by the designated end time and signed the pledge. No pledge, no grade. I really don't know why more universities don't implement a real honor system. It benefits everyone.

This is how my school does it. During exam week, I can take my exam anywhere I want in the school and do anything during the day, so long as it doesn't violate the honor code. If my classmates and I want to get lunch during the exam or go for a short walk and leave our exams face up on the desk, we can because we all hold each other to the honor code. We are asked to sign a sheet at the end of the week that says we didn't violate the code nor did we see it violated. It affords us a great degree of freedom and frankly engenders trust and respect between peers and the OME. It's a sweet deal.
 
This is how my school does it. During exam week, I can take my exam anywhere I want in the school and do anything during the day, so long as it doesn't violate the honor code. If my classmates and I want to get lunch during the exam or go for a short walk and leave our exams face up on the desk, we can because we all hold each other to the honor code. We are asked to sign a sheet at the end of the week that says we didn't violate the code nor did we see it violated. It affords us a great degree of freedom and frankly engenders trust and respect between peers and the OME. It's a sweet deal.

That's great! My UG had an honor code that worked quite effectively. I know they had disciplinary measures in place but, honestly, I don't know of anyone who ever violated it. It simply was not an issue.

Seeing as this is essentially how it will work in the hospital setting (or any other business), I think this should be how college students are treated all along. If they don't learn integrity now, when will they?!
 
Yea... I'm not down with honor-code schools like that. I would feel like I would be letting myself be set-up. i don't want to take an exam with a stack of old exams next to me... not that I would look, but knowing that regardless that I signed an honor code or not, the teacher might think I cheated if my answer sounds like someone else... he might not report it... but still...

besides, I think undergrad is a teaching time, not a time to throw someone out for cheating on the first offense (I can't believe a medical school did that to two students). I like how my undergrad does it... if you are caught cheating once, you meet with the ethics board and discuss it.. why you cheated... how to avoid cheating... why you won't do it again and the repercussions if you do do it again. You fail that assignment maybe the class if the situation was bad enough) and go back to class. For most students, they learn the lesson and don't even cheat again. I'm sure those two medical student kicked out will never cheat again in their lifetime... and they didn't need such a big lesson to learn that.

Just my 2c though

edit: There was also a lot of cheating at my school for certain classes... but at the same time, my school seems to have a lot more cooperation among peers (which apparently seems to be a rarity according to all medschool admissions trying to sell their schools)
 
Yea... I'm not down with honor-code schools like that. I would feel like I would be letting myself be set-up. i don't want to take an exam with a stack of old exams next to me... not that I would look, but knowing that regardless that I signed an honor code or not, the teacher might think I cheated if my answer sounds like someone else... he might not report it... but still...

besides, I think undergrad is a teaching time, not a time to throw someone out for cheating on the first offense (I can't believe a medical school did that to two students). I like how my undergrad does it... if you are caught cheating once, you meet with the ethics board and discuss it.. why you cheated... how to avoid cheating... why you won't do it again and the repercussions if you do do it again. You fail that assignment maybe the class if the situation was bad enough) and go back to class. For most students, they learn the lesson and don't even cheat again. I'm sure those two medical student kicked out will never cheat again in their lifetime... and they didn't need such a big lesson to learn that.

Just my 2c though

edit: There was also a lot of cheating at my school for certain classes... but at the same time, my school seems to have a lot more cooperation among peers (which apparently seems to be a rarity according to all medschool admissions trying to sell their schools)


Why should college be "teaching time"?! Adolescence is OVER when you turn 18. You are an adult. Act like one. Kids used to be grown up and married by age 15 (not that I think we should return to this but it does provide some context for comparison). Now, we have "kids" returning home after college and living with mom and dad at age 25-30! That's absolutely ridiculous!!!

Honestly, I'd support failing kids out of high school on the second or third cheating offense. They should have learned proper behavior by the end of middle school, not the end of college. We're simply extending childhood out a few decades and surely this is not a positive for employers hiring new college grads.

College is not a place for learning ethical standards, basic life skills, etc. It is a place for learning "higher" thinking and to develop higher-level skills useful in a given career or set of careers. What you propose basically reduces college to middle school. Do you really want to spend thousands of dollars learning to have some integrity? If that was not learned during your childhood, your parents FAILED. If your teachers did not step in and intervene when you exhibited a lack of integrity, they FAILED you -- and society.
 
Why should college be "teaching time"?! Adolescence is OVER when you turn 18. You are an adult. Act like one. Kids used to be grown up and married by age 15 (not that I think we should return to this but it does provide some context for comparison). Now, we have "kids" returning home after college and living with mom and dad at age 25-30! That's absolutely ridiculous!!!

Honestly, I'd support failing kids out of high school on the second or third cheating offense. They should have learned proper behavior by the end of middle school, not the end of college. We're simply extending childhood out a few decades and surely this is not a positive for employers hiring new college grads.

College is not a place for learning ethical standards, basic life skills, etc. It is a place for learning "higher" thinking and to develop higher-level skills useful in a given career or set of careers. What you propose basically reduces college to middle school. Do you really want to spend thousands of dollars learning to have some integrity? If that was not learned during your childhood, your parents FAILED. If your teachers did not step in and intervene when you exhibited a lack of integrity, they FAILED you -- and society.
I guess my opinion of college differs from yours and I believe that the "young adult" stage is necessary in this economy (where yes, as horrible as it might be, you might need to return home to your parents... and I do think it's horrible, but something has changed the last few decades were are young people need more time to mature... just like when they decided to classify a group as "teenagers")

I view college as a maturing time where you do learn life lessons. Lessons that you might have missed in high school or grade school, where everyone was cheating and now you need help to learn how not to cheat. Or maybe you are a college student who has never cheated before but maybe the stress of making sure you get all As and seeing other students cheating and getting away with it... and you think, hey, why can't i do that? make my life easier? Whatever you're reason for cheating; college is there to make sure that you learn how not to cheat and how to avoid cheating. Hell, plagiarizing at one time wasn't considered cheating and older adults going back to school have to learn this from their colleges (of course, maybe they had been out of school so long, they forgot...)

I'm happy to have attended a college that supports their students - with whatever their issues might be (from adjustments from living away from home, to mental health, to tutor, to even learning how not to cheat). So what if students enter college with no integrity or loss their integrity in college, it can be taught or gained back.

Additionally -- Undergrad was ALL about me "learning ethical standards, basic life skills, etc." as well as "a place for learning "higher" thinking and to develop higher-level skills." for me though, as a pre-med science/humanities student, I did not learn the skills for a given career or set of careers. Those skills are something learned at a technical college, or restricted degree (nursing/engineering), or grad program (phd/md)...not something you learn from a liberal university. A liberal university gives you the life skills, the ethical background, and the knowledge on how to learn (so that you can learn the necessary knowledge once you enter you specific career)
 
Yea... I'm not down with honor-code schools like that. I would feel like I would be letting myself be set-up. i don't want to take an exam with a stack of old exams next to me... not that I would look, but knowing that regardless that I signed an honor code or not, the teacher might think I cheated if my answer sounds like someone else... he might not report it... but still...

besides, I think undergrad is a teaching time, not a time to throw someone out for cheating on the first offense (I can't believe a medical school did that to two students). I like how my undergrad does it... if you are caught cheating once, you meet with the ethics board and discuss it.. why you cheated... how to avoid cheating... why you won't do it again and the repercussions if you do do it again. You fail that assignment maybe the class if the situation was bad enough) and go back to class. For most students, they learn the lesson and don't even cheat again. I'm sure those two medical student kicked out will never cheat again in their lifetime... and they didn't need such a big lesson to learn that.

Just my 2c though

edit: There was also a lot of cheating at my school for certain classes... but at the same time, my school seems to have a lot more cooperation among peers (which apparently seems to be a rarity according to all medschool admissions trying to sell their schools)

schools with an effective honor code make the terms of that code explicit from day one, and are moreover quite effective at making sure the professors are clear in syllabi about what their expectations are, as well.

i went to an undergrad with an honor code: exams were not proctored. Plagarism was the bigger issue anyway, and several people were suspended each year for doing stupid things. The minimum was typically a year, then you were allowed to come back. a second offense usually merited expulsion. i was constantly terrified of being cited for academic dishonesty, which was unpleasant - but it did make me very careful about what i did and didn't do. the fact is that, if people are made aware of what the expectations are, and are aware of the potential penalties and that, yes, they are periodically meted out, then the climate tends to induce a certain behavior: one of caution when citing your sources. if you think that something's not OK to do - it probably isn't.

really these rules come down to common sense. the places that are in trouble are the ones that don't have a code, or one that isn't clear, or one that isn't enforced consistently.
 
i went to an undergrad with an honor code: exams were not proctored. Plagarism was the bigger issue anyway, and several people were suspended each year for doing stupid things. The minimum was typically a year, then you were allowed to come back. a second offense usually merited expulsion. i was constantly terrified of being cited for academic dishonesty, which was unpleasant - but it did make me very careful about what i did and didn't do.
Just a correction regarding my responses based on the above quote. Students are caught plagiarizing more so than any other type of cheating at my school. Exams are proctored but minimally (though I do try to catch students while proctoring... but so far no foul play, except them having copies of old exams)

All my answers are mostly regarding cases were students have been caught plagiarizing and given an F on that assignment. I consider this cheating... and this is what I have been talking about. I haven't seen much in-class/exam cheating, but I would give a first-offense the same penalty. [In my own experience, if I think a student is "cheating"(on the assignments I grade that are worth very little and the "cheating" is because they don't follow directions and try to copy from their book), I give them a zero and ask them to come talk to me... if they do, they get the points back... and if they don't, well they lose some points that would help them earn an A and don't cheat on future assignments. Maybe I have been too nice to my students]

I'm still not big into honor codes. I think everyone will do right... but sometimes missteps happen and you want to help those students, not suspend them for a year.
 
I guess my opinion of college differs from yours and I believe that the "young adult" stage is necessary in this economy (where yes, as horrible as it might be, you might need to return home to your parents... and I do think it's horrible, but something has changed the last few decades were are young people need more time to mature... just like when they decided to classify a group as "teenagers")
While this is true, I do not see it as a good thing. It seems to me it is something that has been steadily getting worse over the years. It seems to be a progressive lengthening of childhood. What's next? A culture where we have 40-year-old boys playing video games in their parents' basement as a norm? I mean... I'd say it's pretty ridiculous when the average video game player is 29! While not all of those are playing their lives away, quite a few are. To me, this just seems ridiculous.
I view college as a maturing time where you do learn life lessons. Lessons that you might have missed in high school or grade school, where everyone was cheating and now you need help to learn how not to cheat. Or maybe you are a college student who has never cheated before but maybe the stress of making sure you get all As and seeing other students cheating and getting away with it... and you think, hey, why can't i do that? make my life easier? Whatever you're reason for cheating; college is there to make sure that you learn how not to cheat and how to avoid cheating. Hell, plagiarizing at one time wasn't considered cheating and older adults going back to school have to learn this from their colleges (of course, maybe they had been out of school so long, they forgot...)
Sure learning some life lessons is one thing, but, honestly, I guess I don't think we should be graduating students from HS that have not shown evidence of integrity. Sure, not every cheater is going to be caught, but maybe if we established such ethical standards with more force from the beginning (i.e., MS/HS), the results would turn out better.
I'm happy to have attended a college that supports their students - with whatever their issues might be (from adjustments from living away from home, to mental health, to tutor, to even learning how not to cheat). So what if students enter college with no integrity or loss their integrity in college, it can be taught or gained back.
As am I. My school was extremely supportive of such students. However, there were still expectations and not meeting those expectations was met with consistent consequences along with remediation and a second chance. Further violation of the community's trust was treated more harshly, as it should be.
Additionally -- Undergrad was ALL about me "learning ethical standards, basic life skills, etc." as well as "a place for learning "higher" thinking and to develop higher-level skills." for me though, as a pre-med science/humanities student, I did not learn the skills for a given career or set of careers. Those skills are something learned at a technical college, or restricted degree (nursing/engineering), or grad program (phd/md)...not something you learn from a liberal university. A liberal university gives you the life skills, the ethical background, and the knowledge on how to learn (so that you can learn the necessary knowledge once you enter you specific career)
I disagree. Sure, as liberal arts students, the skills we are learning are not specific to a given career, persay, but they are not basic life skills either. They are often alternative ways of thinking and/or extensions upon what our parents taught us. Integrity is something parents should be instilling in their children from early on. Does this always happen? He** no, but I honestly don't want someone as my physician who has a spotted history when it comes to his/her integrity. That should be something one holds in highest regard at a relatively young age if one is to be selected to handle sensitive information and assist vulnerable people to make life or death decisions about their own and others' care, esp. when conflicts of interest may be encountered with high frequency and/or high stakes involved.
 
While this is true, I do not see it as a good thing. It seems to me it is something that has been steadily getting worse over the years. It seems to be a progressive lengthening of childhood. What's next? A culture where we have 40-year-old boys playing video games in their parents' basement as a norm? I mean... I'd say it's pretty ridiculous when the average video game player is 29! While not all of those are playing their lives away, quite a few are. To me, this just seems ridiculous.
I agree that 40-year-olds living in their parents' basement would be a problem, but there's nothing wrong with adults playing video games. Video games are now a legitimate form of entertainment, and I see nothing wrong with someone in their 30s or 40s who sits down to play video games sometimes, just as I don't see anything wrong with people watching tv or going to see movies.

As for people "playing their lives away", sure that's a problem, but the average age of a video game player being 29 is not at all alarming to me, as plenty of adults play casually these days.
 
Top