Chicago Area SMPs

[MiamiDent]

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Hello Hello.

This is my frist time posting and wanted to get some insight on any SMPs some of you may be attending or have attended in the Chicago area. What are the best ones for applying to dental school? Have any of you gained acceptance to dental school with a masters?

I am aware that Northwestern and Loyola and some others have masters programs but the ridiculous cost is pushing me to look elsewhere. I know Northeastern Illinois offers a MS in biology. Has anyone looked into this or any other cheaper school?

Thanks for all the responses. I greatly appreciate it.

 

[rose786]

Midwestern and Rosalind Franklin have SMPs near chicago. Not sure about their cost though.

 

[Ehhhh]

Im at Rosalind Franklin right now... Im actually in the Library... Don't come here if you don't have a strong science background and aren't willing to spend every waking moment studying... Also its a quarter system so you won't get most of your grades till after the Academic Update Period is over (most classes are 2 quarters long)... Only real plus is that its one year... My personal opinion is to go to UDMNJ or Barry in Florida. Goodluck... If you do come here PM i'll tell you what to do to get good grades...

 

[dr bojangles]

i'm at the UMDNJ one, and trust me, its no walk in the park. this program also allows you to finish in a year, thesis or non-thesis (more courses) based. cost is not bad, then again, i'm in-state.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

MiamiDent, I don't know if you already have a B.S. in Bio, but if you don't, you should look into Northwestern's SCS (School of Continuing Studies) program for post-baccs. I completed that program to get my B.S. in Bio since I already have a B.S. and M.S. in Mechanical Engineering.

The advantage of the SCS program is that it has numerous upper level Bio courses that can be taken in the evening. Therefore, you can choose to work a part-time job during the day, or you go to school full-time.

Each course costs about $1400, which isn't too bad for a private school....If you get accepted into the B.S. Bio program, you can get student loans.

The SCS post-bacc program placed numerous students into high ranked medical and dental schools.

 

[MiamiDent]

I actually graduated with a B.S. in Finance, but took all my dental pre-reqs. I actually am aware of the program that you are referring to but was a little concerned about the price. $1400 dollar seems VERY expensive but if it gets you into dental school, it is more than worth it.

How did you decide on this program? Were there any others you were looking at around Chicago?

I have looked at Northeastern Illinois and their MS in Biology and that seems pretty interesting (as well as inexpensive). Midwestern also is an option, but private school price.

Let me know if you have any suggestions. All are welcome!

Thanks in advance.

 

[jeezy]

i'm taking non degree classes at UIC. 18hrs is 5grand.. so northwestern is a pretty good deal. especially if you compare it to loyola or rfums (~30k)

 

[MiamiDent]

Jeezy,

Are you taking undergrad or graduate level courses? Are you trying to apply the next cycle...for entrance fall 2009? What kind of stats are you working with?

 

[jeezy]

oh, northwestern is on a quarter system isnt it? that would make it more than twice as expensive as UIC. the cons of uic is that the classes are in the day so you cant work at the same time and the advising is horrible. i do my own research rather than trusting the advisors

i'm dont have a bio degree, so i've been taking classes that fulfil various requirements (gen bio, orgo, anatomy, physiology, psych, biochem). biochem is a 400 level class, so that counts as graduate level.

you can schedule anything you want but as a non degree student you get last dibs to register, so i've had to constantly wait online until someone drops a class.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I finished my B.S. from NU this past June. Since I am now in the dental app process, I am now using my "lag year" to take a full load of classes at UIC during the day. Therefore, I can speak for both schools.

I chose NU because when I started the program, I was still working as a full-time engineer during the day, and decided to take NU's evening classes. My job was way too crazy to work and take science classes, so I quit my job decided to go for the B.S. degree to get student loans. In addition, all the dental web sites state that they prefer student that have taken upper level bio classes.

I chose NU because of the reputation of the school. The SCS classes are taught by faculty of the day school.

There are plenty of people in my class that worked a full-time job while taking these classes, and others like me didn't work. Since you have a finance degree, you should be able to work full-time at first and see how you do while taking one or two classes at a time. Chicago is a huge finance city. Keep in mind that these Bio classes are hard. I took all the Bio classes that SCS offers.

UIC has many more bio classes to offer than NU, so that is why I'm there taking Genetics, Developmental Bio, and Bio Materials (BIO Engineering class) at UIC. The BioEng class is a graduate class. Since you already have a B.S. degree, UIC will let you take classes as a "non-degree" student, but you will not get any student loans....at least I don't think you can.

The UIC classes are slightly cheaper, but the student body at NU is by far more competitive. The top 10-15% of the students at UIC are just as smart as the many NU students, but the ave UIC student is far below the ave NU student. That is just my observation.

I recommend going to NU and I wouldn't worry about the difference in cost. I get very positive reactions from many different people when I say I'm a graduate of NU. Please understand, I don't mean this in a snobby way.

By the way, I do have two dental interviews, UIC and UMich. I personally believe that taking eight upper level NU Bio classes helped.

 

[MiamiDent]

So you're saying that you think having the B.S. in biology has significantly approved your application?

If you had to estimate, how much do you think you paid in total per quarter? I'm not too familiar with the quarter system but is a class only 1 quarter?

I think you are correct in that a degree from NU would be a positive addition to your application. I am just trying to weigh the positives and negatives and cost is most definiely something I am looking into.

Also, you said that the classes were much, much harder at NU. Is that necessarily a positive. If you are going to have to work your ass off just to meet the curve I'm not really sure how great that is. I mean, I will absolutely do the work and try my hardest, but if something happens and I come away with a low B or even C, that would be devastating don't you think?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Here's how the quarter system works. A standard academic school year is 30 weeks (Fall & Spring). Therefore, some schools have two semesters of 15 weeks each, or some schools have 3 quarters of 10 weeks each.

At NU SCS, you can take 2-3 uppper level bio classes at a time in the evening. You can petition to take an additional bio class during the day school if you want to take a 4th class.

Because you already have all your dental pre-reqs done, you will have to take the following classes to get your Bio degree:
Biochem
Anatomy
Comparative anatomy
Physiology
Bio of Aging
Cell Bio
Population Bio (through the Anthro dept)
Immunology
and two English classes (you may be able to petition out of one English class)

Therefore, 10 classes * $1400 = $14,000. You could finish all of these classes in one year.

Here's another important advantage of these NU SCS Bio classes - the classes are very small.

These 300 level bio classes only have about 15-20 students. Therefore, all of my Prof Rec letters came from these classes. I got all A's and B's in these 300 level classes with strong rec letters. That is why I feel I got my interviews.

At UIC, all my classes have like 60-80 students; therefore, it makes it very hard to get Rec Letters.

One last point - grades:
At UIC, the class ave = C. At NU, class ave = B. Therefore, although it is harder to beat the class ave or keep up with it at NU, the end result is that I feel your chances of getting A's and B's are about the same at each school. At UIC, to get an A, you need to beat the class ave by a wide margin.

The big difference in teaching method between the two schools is that NU has a heavy emphasis on writing research papers and making class presentations, while UIC does not. I feel that is a major advantage of NU.

Ok, I better stop gabbing....

 

[MiamiDent]

Thank you for gabbing....that was a much better run through than most explanations of programs I get. Very thorough yet to the point and I appreciate it.

My only other question then lies in your decision to pursue a B.S. in biology rather than a masters. Did you feel that it would be a better option? The reason I ask is because most schools have told me to take upper level biology courses hopefully as a masters degree seeking student? Have you heard different? Obviously you have done something right if you already have those 2 interviews, and they are to 2 schools that I hope to apply to as well.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I chose to only get a B.S. in Bio, rather than a M.S., because I enrolled into NU still needing to take entire sequence of Gen Bio and Orgo. Therefore, it made more sense for me to go for the B.S. degree since Gen Bio and Orgo would count towards the degree. There was no way I was ready to go straight into taking grad level bio classes.

In general, I agree that getting a M.S. in Bio or a SMP program is better than getting a B.S. in Bio, BUT IS IT NECESSARY? I felt that getting the B.S. in Bio was already more than sufficient to make me a competitive applicant.

Here's how I see it.
Scenerio 1:
- You get a M.S. in Bio or M.S. in SMP program
- gpa: 3.5 or higher, DAT: 21 or higher
- 3 strong rec letters
Result: several d-school interviews, multiple acceptance letters
Cost: $30k, full-time

Scenerio 2:
- You get a B.S. in Bio at NU SCS
- gpa: 3.5 or higher, DAT: 21 or higher
- 3 strong rec letters
Result: several d-school interviews, multiple acceptance letters
Cost: $14k with the flexibility to take the classes part-time or full-time

Scenerio 3:
You get a M.S. in Bio or M.S. in SMP program
- gpa: 3.0-3.2, DAT: 18 or 19
- 3 average rec letters
Result: Borderline applicant, you have a "chance" of getting in
Cost: $30k, if you don't get in, you now have a lag year of unemployment

Scenerio 4:
- You get a B.S. in Bio at NU SCS
- gpa: 3.0-3.2, DAT: 18 or 19
- 3 average rec letters
Result: Borderline applicant, you have a "chance" of getting in
Cost: $14k, if you don't get in, you still have your day job. You can also get a research job at one of the local universities, or you can now apply to a M.S. Bio program. If you go for this new M.S. route, your foundation of the sciences will be strong; therefore, your chances of getting a 3.5 or higher is very high.

Conclusion: What matters is how well you do in your program under a full course load that matters, not which program you choose. If you can afford to not work for a year, I would definitely recommend going full-time in any of the above programs. But, I know that money doesn't grow on trees.

One more thing:
According the UMich D-school website, out of 110 students, only 5 have an M.S. degree.....humm......

Let me know what you decide.

 

[jeezy]

I didn't know about NU's program when i went back to school or I would have seriously considered it. I've taken 3 semesters of classes at UIC for ~12k.

UIC may not be as competative as NU, but you still need to do work for A's. I chose not to do a degree sequence and I dont think that has hurt me. Getting quality recommendations has been my biggest challenge thus far, but I really dont think getting an additional BS degree is a disadvantage.

 

[jeezy]

ronjeremy,

i'm looking at the SCS webpage and dont see a MS in biology. this is a certificate which looks of minimal benefit to anyone who's completed their prereqs. so the best NU option would be either a bio BS or non degree classes, right?

also, if i've already taken biochem and anatomy would i potentially be able to earn an additional BS in less than a year? or is there a limit on how many classes that you could transfer over (like the limit of 1 english class that you mentioned)

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Jeezy,
NU SCS only offers a B.S. in Bio or a certificate in Pre-Health. The SCS B.S. in Bio is only beneficial for people who do not have a B.S. Bio and are already planning on taking a bunch of upper level bio classes. Therefore, this B.S. degree gives you a chance to raise your sci and BCP ave.

When I entered this program, I was able to transfer a ton my classes that I already took in Engineering. You will have contact the school to find out how many transfer credits that they will give you.