- Joined
- Jul 27, 2010
- Messages
- 1,846
- Reaction score
- 1,564
Chicago School of Prof Psych LA campus sued
- Thread starter DynamicDidactic
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 8
Worth reading if only for this:
"Also named as defendants are the California Graduate Institute and the school's national president Michelle Nealon-Woods and "lead faculty" member of the Los Angeles campus, David Sitzer."
Another reason to consider another line of work, rather than cling to academia via an FSPS faculty gig?
"Also named as defendants are the California Graduate Institute and the school's national president Michelle Nealon-Woods and "lead faculty" member of the Los Angeles campus, David Sitzer."
Another reason to consider another line of work, rather than cling to academia via an FSPS faculty gig?
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,794
- Reaction score
- 6,788
While I'm sure people will say that these students should've done their homework ahead of time, and that "caveat emptor" certainly applies when attending a school that doesn't have accreditation in hand (as verified on the APA's website and/or by calling them directly). However, if the school truly did outright lie to these students, then it certainly sounds like they deserve to be sued for it.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2007
- Messages
- 486
- Reaction score
- 281
Wait...so they told students in writing that their program was APA accredited, even though they hadn't actually applied for accreditation? And then they didn't even apply after the fact? How were they planning to get away with that? Did they think that no one would notice that they were paying for an unaccredited degree? 😕
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 8
Agree 100%.
I was waiting for someone to chime in and call the students a buncha dummies. Glad you posted first.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2007
- Messages
- 486
- Reaction score
- 281
I don't know...when I applied to grad school, I was working at a high powered research institution that provided us with a ton of information and mentorship around the whole application process, so I had lots of help in putting my list of schools together. I didn't apply to any programs where accreditation was even in question, but I can promise you that I didn't go out and independently verify each program's APA status. I bet most of the grad students (current and prior) on this board didn't, either. Granted, I had the safety net of knowing that my mentors wouldn't steer me towards a weak program, but it never occurred to me not to trust communications that I got from the places where I was applying.
Now, if I hadn't had psychologists who were looking out for me, and I didn't know as much about the field, I think I would have been similarly inclined to trust a program's statement that they're APA accredited. Especially if they said so in writing. The fact that their other campus actually is APA approved just adds more credibility. To say that the students brought this on themselves seems like blaming the victim to me.
Now, if I hadn't had psychologists who were looking out for me, and I didn't know as much about the field, I think I would have been similarly inclined to trust a program's statement that they're APA accredited. Especially if they said so in writing. The fact that their other campus actually is APA approved just adds more credibility. To say that the students brought this on themselves seems like blaming the victim to me.
When I was looking at graduate schools in 2008, I did visit an information session at this LA campus. I remember the stated defendants well and addressed both of them directly about my APA accreditation concerns. They were pretty adamant that they would be accredited and kept using their Chicago campus as a reference. I would go as far as saying that they were almost guaranteeing it. Nevertheless, I didn't feel safe enough without the accreditation in place, so I chose another program. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that these students were misled.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 1,011
- Reaction score
- 423
This school seems horribly shady. But based on some of the people who turn up on SDN, I have some guesses about their typical student. I suspect that they are folks with less competitive stats, unwilling to relocate because they like it in LA, but clinging fiercely to their idea of getting a doctorate. Because of this, they were willing to overlook red flags and shell out a small fortune to attend a lousy program (accredited or not). Shady schools like this wouldn't exist if there wasn't such a strong market for them.
Best,
Dr. E
Best,
Dr. E
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,794
- Reaction score
- 6,788
Very good (and important) point. Perhaps this lawsuit will bring at least a little publicity to schools like this so that students are a bit more informed in the future.
That being said, it also wouldn't be as big of a problem if APA didn't keep accrediting similar programs that churn out many more graduates each year than the market can realistically support.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,084
- Reaction score
- 5
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 8
I think there are several factors particular to the west coast which make it especially hospitable for FSPSs. First, the human potential movement (think Esalen and the like) took a strong hold here (particularly in Northern CA), and there are still a lot of folks who tend to think of "alternative pathways" as somehow providing a critique of "The Powers That Be." Additionally, in the LA area you have a lot of midlife folks whose dreams of becoming a musician, actor, screenwriter, great American novelist, have not come to fruition and need to move on career-wise. Perhaps this is true of NYC as well?
In any case, I think it's a little too easy to beat up on the FSPS crowd (though I'm not saying that's what Dr. E is doing). There are a variety of circumstances, as well as psychological factors and structural constraints that contribute to making this option appear appealing, or at least tolerable.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 9,794
- Reaction score
- 6,788
👍 I agree with both sides of the issue.
As for the FSPS crowd, I place substantially more blame on the programs (and on the organization that accredits them) than I do on the students, although the trainees aren't entirely innocent in this, either. If you go into a $200k "purchase" without having done the research necessary to tell you that accreditation is important and isn't guaranteed until it's granted, then a small part of me thinks you've essentially lost your right to complain about it afterward.
That being said, schools like the one in the article just need to be shut down (in my personal opinion).
