Child Neurology Question regarding Peds Prelim Programs

[drlook]

Does anyone know what the ACGME requirements are the our pediatric preliminary 2-year residency? In other words, how many gen peds inpatient months, icu months, selectives, electives are we required to do according to the ACGME? I've tried googling this question, searching school websites, but most only post the rotation schedule for categorical pediatrics or child neurology fellowship years. I've yet to find a school that will post the requirements for a preliminary program.

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[ACoordinator]

https://www.abp.org/abpwebsite/beco...s/nonstandardpathways/pediatricsneurology.htm

I think that this is what you are looking for...HTH!

 

[drlook]

Thank you! That helps a lot.

 

[OddNath]

I have a tangentially-related question 🙂

Per most websites, in addition to the option of doing the standard 2 years of peds, we could do 1 year IM/1 year peds or 1 year peds/1 year research:

Prerequisite Training as per requirements ACGME:

2 years of residency training in pediatrics OR
One PG-1 year (as described in the Program Requirements for Residency Education in Neurology**) and 1 year of residency training in Pediatrics OR
1 year of pediatrics plus 1 year of basic neuroscience training

If doing one year of pediatrics, are there similar requirements for the content of that year?

Basically, I applied to some Advanced programs, and with all of the changes this year, I'm kind of freaking out about having to scramble for *any* sort of pediatrics prelim year or years. Thanks guys 🙂

 

[ACoordinator]

I have a tangentially-related question 🙂

Per most websites, in addition to the option of doing the standard 2 years of peds, we could do 1 year IM/1 year peds or 1 year peds/1 year research:

If doing one year of pediatrics, are there similar requirements for the content of that year?

Basically, I applied to some Advanced programs, and with all of the changes this year, I'm kind of freaking out about having to scramble for *any* sort of pediatrics prelim year or years. Thanks guys 🙂

The above for the 2 years of pediatrics is so that child neurology residents are eligible for certification in pediatrics (through the AAP) and child neurology (through the ABPN). If someone ends up going the IM/Peds route one wouldn't be eligible for peds board certification. Here is some info for you straight from the ABPN site:

General Pediatrics/Internal Medicine:​

"One year of training in general pediatrics and one year of training in internal medicine in ACGME-accredited programs. An acceptable alternative to the one year of internal medicine is a full year of ACGME-accredited training that includes a minimum of six months of internal medicine, the details of which must be documented by the training director. The composition of these six months may not include rotations in neurology, family medicine, pediatrics, or emergency medicine. To ensure that these six months constitute a high-quality experience, they should emphasize progressive responsibility for the resident. At least two of the additional six months must be spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, and/or emergency medicine. For candidates entering child neurology residency training on or after July 1, 2002, at least two of the additional six months must be spent in internal medicine, pediatrics, family medicine, and/or emergency medicine. No more than two of the remaining four months may be spent in neurology, AND all candidates will be required to complete three full years of postgraduate, specialized residency training in a child neurology program accredited by the ACGME."

The research route is much harder to follow. In a nutshell, your PD would have to submit and get approval for the one year of research at least 6 months prior to the start of the research year.

I'd recommend looking at the ABPN Information for Applicants PDF for specifics about what you would need: http://www.abpn.com/downloads/ifas/2012_IFA_Cert_N-ChiN_120111.pdf

And yes, the match this year is crazy. Hope it's all going well for you! 🙂​

 

[OddNath]

ACoordinator, thank you so much for the detailed response! I guess we'll find out on Sunday (Jan. 15) what the rank-lists look like and what pedi programs we'll be able to rank with advanced child neuro spots. An adventure indeed 🙂

 

[marinak]

HI,

Do you by chance WHERE those 2-yr pediatric preliminary positions are? I understand that certain hospitals with child neuro fellowship will set aside 2-yr peds positions. But, what are those places that are not affiliated with child neurology fellowship and offer 2-yr positions? ie. where do people do their peds if they get one of the "Advanced" spots in child neurology.
Also, has anyone had any experience with applying to 3-yr pediatric programs and discussing your intention for child neurology on the interview trail? There are some really great peds programs that I'm interested in and would love to do. I'm not sure if that would be a no-no in getting into the program.

 

[OddNath]

Do you by chance WHERE those 2-yr pediatric preliminary positions are?

There are ~20 pedi prelims in the US-- search FREIDA (https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/user/viewProgramSearch.do) for 'Pediatrics' and then 'Offers preliminary positions' in the Optional criteria. The list is not completely accurate (for example, UT-Houston doesn't actually have a stand-alone pedi prelim any more), but gives you a starting place to search the schools' websites and send emails. Some of these places offer 1-year pedi prelim spots and may offer to try to extend the position into a 2-year position.

Also, has anyone had any experience with applying to 3-yr pediatric programs and discussing your intention for child neurology on the interview trail? There are some really great peds programs that I'm interested in and would love to do. I'm not sure if that would be a no-no in getting into the program.

So, starting this past year, it's no longer possible to match into a 3-year categorical pedi program *and* an advanced pedi neuro spot (i.e. one that would begin 2 years from now). Long gone are the days of secretly matching into pedi neuro through the SF Match in January and then matching into a full 3-year pedi spot elsewhere in March (with the intention of only completing 2 of the years). If you are interested in doing general pediatrics, then by all means apply to some of those programs. At this point, it's not like they will need to be scared of you matching in a pedi neuro spot in January without telling them, since it's all one match.

However, as with any other specialty, it can get tricky when applying to 2 different specialties. For example, it'd be like if someone was applying for both adult neurology *and* categorical internal medicine (full 3 year). You'd need a pretty good story for why you'd be a perfect fit for each of those distinct specialties, since you'd have to answer both "Why do you want to be a neurologist?" and "Why do you want to be an internist?" Then, if you applied to an IM and neuro program at the same institution, it gets complicated since they might talk and you could appear as though you're not very committed to either specialty. Maybe if you're truly undecided, it may be best to complete general pediatrics residency first, if you'd need the time to decide.