Chiropractor Experiences

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bunnymd

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I just wanted to hear some opinions from colleagues regarding perspectives on chiropractor practices. I have done moonlighting in chiropractor offices (my employer leases the office spaces on the weekends for our exams) and I routinely see propaganda advising against vaccinations (in huge print on the wall in the lobby). I knew about this commonly held belief among "straight" chiro's (those who strictly adhere to the founding principles of chiro; ie. "innate intelligence," the ability of spinal manipulation to cure ALL diseases, etc.) but I had never seen it first hand. This was most egregious and offensive during the H1N1 pandemic.

I have also seen chiro's market themselves as actual primary care providers who are eager to perform chronic disease management (a 1995 survey showed that 90% of U.S. chiro's consider themselves to be primary care providers). Unfortunately, the lay public perceives chiro's as bona fide "doctors" and truly don't know the difference. Chiro's also routinely treat children and INFANTS for asthma, eczema, ear infections, colic, bedwetting, hyperactivity, and learning disorders! Remember, the modality of treatment is primarily spinal manipulation.

When I see that insurance companies reimburse for chiro services that are typically frequent and unnecessary (not to mention the superfluous amount of x-rays ordered), I find myself annoyed that the same insurance companies hold physicians to Pay for Performance standards and have the bar hovering incredibly high for services rendered. Who watches the chiro's quality measures? Are their charts audited as well?

Isn't there some kind of malfeasance inherent in recommending against vaccinations? Isn't this a public health issue if "doctors" recommend against this crucial role of healthcare and arguably the single most important discovery in medicine? What am I missing? And yes, chiro's do peddle med's. But since they are "supplements" and "natural," it doesn't count. I have a personal anecdote of an acquaintance who was told by a chiropractor to give her INFANT a supplement he was selling to cure the baby's otitis. Said chiro did not even ask about the medications the baby was currently taking (for GI issues).

There are plenty of discussions regarding the roles of midlevels and its appropriateness, but this is a whole other level of practicing outside of one's scope of training.

Obligatory qualifier: I have been to a chiro in the past and received wonderful results for lumbago. Yes, there has been more of a consensus (based on meta-analysis) that chiro therapy is moderately efficacious for LOW BACK PAIN. That's about it. Let's not forget about the danger of cervical manipulation (low amplitude/high velocity) and the underreported incidence of vertebral artery dissection inherent to this maneuver.

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I honestly am surprised that with all the MD vs DO threads out there that there aren't more threads on MD vs DC. Maybe the answer is so obvious that it is not even worth debating.

I recently read a very interesting article by a DC who draws a comparison between podiatry and chiro (in that they emerged about the same time, yet one is considered mainstream, and the other "alternative), and advocates bringing Chiro into the mainstream by affiliating the schools with universities, requiring an entrance exam, doing meaningful research, having its graduates do residency in hospitals, and once and for all eliminating the "innate intelligence, subluxation causes disease" nonsense from its schools.

http://www.chirobase.org/01General/respect.html
 
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Some chiropractors are way, way out there and should lose all rights to practice. That said, some know their limitations and treat only what they should.
 
Apparently, this thread is not pertinent to family practice despite my reference to chiro's practicing as pcp's/family doc's. See my comments regarding chiro preference to treat common ailments suffered by pts who see FAMILY physicians; asthma, otitis media, etc.

I am still curious to see what my colleagues (family physicians) have to say about practicing in communities with chiro "doctors" and how they co-exist. Do you ever refer pts to chiropractors? How do you discuss the issue of vaccinations when a chiro has dismissed this as a therapy? Do you "play nice" with chiro's? How do you discuss prescriptive practices (herbal therapies, etc.)? What do you think about "adjustments" of infants? Do you regularly screen pts for active treatment by chiro's?
 
I don't refer to chiro's, even for low back pain. I send lots of patients to PT. If a patient tells me they are seeing a chiro for LBP and had good results, then I don't make any issue of it. If they discuss vaccinations or try to push any other quackery on my patients, I definitely do. I've never had a chiro try to alter my treatment plans, but I did briefly take care of a child with a leukemia diagnosis who had seen a chiro. The chiro convinced to parents to stop chemotherapy and try daily adjustments. The outcome was obviously not good. I don't know what finally happened, as I was doing locums at the time and moved on to another assignment, but I think the whole thing was criminal.

Removing some pieces of the chiro curriculum and attaching them to universities would go a long way towards legitimizing chiropractic care, but that's all it would do. I don't dispute that there are some benefits with lumbago, but is there anything that a chiro can do that a physical therapist can't? I just don't see the purpose.
 
I don't refer to chiro's, even for low back pain. I send lots of patients to PT. If a patient tells me they are seeing a chiro for LBP and had good results, then I don't make any issue of it. If they discuss vaccinations or try to push any other quackery on my patients, I definitely do. I've never had a chiro try to alter my treatment plans, but I did briefly take care of a child with a leukemia diagnosis who had seen a chiro. The chiro convinced to parents to stop chemotherapy and try daily adjustments. The outcome was obviously not good. I don't know what finally happened, as I was doing locums at the time and moved on to another assignment, but I think the whole thing was criminal.

Removing some pieces of the chiro curriculum and attaching them to universities would go a long way towards legitimizing chiropractic care, but that's all it would do. I don't dispute that there are some benefits with lumbago, but is there anything that a chiro can do that a physical therapist can't? I just don't see the purpose.

As the authors of the paper said, chiropractors should try to narrow their scope to just "non-surgical spine care", following the example of podiatrists who narrow their scope to just the foot and ankle. There are enough lower back patients that chiros, MDs, PTs, etc could all work together within their scope. We do agree, that the problem with chiro is scientific rigor and credibility.
 
I don't refer to chiro's, even for low back pain. I send lots of patients to PT. If a patient tells me they are seeing a chiro for LBP and had good results, then I don't make any issue of it. If they discuss vaccinations or try to push any other quackery on my patients, I definitely do. I've never had a chiro try to alter my treatment plans, but I did briefly take care of a child with a leukemia diagnosis who had seen a chiro. The chiro convinced to parents to stop chemotherapy and try daily adjustments. The outcome was obviously not good. I don't know what finally happened, as I was doing locums at the time and moved on to another assignment, but I think the whole thing was criminal.

Removing some pieces of the chiro curriculum and attaching them to universities would go a long way towards legitimizing chiropractic care, but that's all it would do. I don't dispute that there are some benefits with lumbago, but is there anything that a chiro can do that a physical therapist can't? I just don't see the purpose.

As the authors of the paper said, chiropractors should try to narrow their scope to just "non-surgical spine care", following the example of podiatrists who narrow their scope to just the foot and ankle. There are enough lower back patients that chiros, MDs, PTs, etc could all work together within their scope. We do agree, that the problem with chiro is scientific rigor and credibility.
 
Chiros are like acupuncturists. The ones who market their services as methods of pain relief and stress reduction are perfectly legit. It's the ones who say their treatments can cure cancer or whatnot through some ill-defined process best described as "magic" that are scary.

Now it's not always possible to get worked-up over this, based on the age-old theory of the transitory relationship between a sucker and his money. And it's true that when I hear of a "subluxation" chiropractor fleecing one of his marks, I often don't have the greatest sympathy for the sucker, assuming said sucker doesn't actually have a grave illness. But either way, it certainly does not foster respect for their profession.
 
Chiros are like acupuncturists. The ones who market their services as methods of pain relief and stress reduction are perfectly legit. It's the ones who say their treatments can cure cancer or whatnot through some ill-defined process best described as "magic" that are scary.

agreed. however the point about the child w/leukemia would be tragic. it was probably ALL (far and away the most common childhood leukemia), which is incredibly treatable--95% remission rate and 80% 5-year survival. if one of these patients was counseled to abandon chemo for supplements, herbals, teas, or whatever, it is criminal.
 
I do appreciate the feedback. I am partially sympathetic to patients of chiro's because they are not fully aware of the chiro scope of practice. I can't expect them to be adequately educated when most physicians are also unaware of what they do and just dismiss them as "quacks."

Once again, it is a perception of acceptance of these "practitioners" who are reimbursed by insurance companies. I am not aware of how many insurance companies pay for acupuncture therapies, homeopath's, naturopath's, or herbalists. I suspect that it is not common. The tacit endorsement via reimbursement puts chiro's on the same level as physicians, PT's, OT's, ST's, RT's, etc. and places them in the collective bin of "providers."

I remain perplexed by the acceptance of this practice given the paucity of evidence.
 
This was years and years ago, but my grandparents knew a chiro who adhered to the "drugs are bad" philosophy so strictly that he convinced two parents to take their diabetic son off of insulin. He died.

I'd be hesitant to start setting precedents for legal action against people who make decisions against scientific consensus (we don't know everything yet), but cases like this and the kid with leukemia really are criminal 🙁
 
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