Choice of BS/DO in 7 years or BS/MD in 8 years.

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HStoMS

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I am a high school senoir and it appears I am faced with the choice of attending an accelerated 7 year combined BS/DO program or a BS/MD Medical Scholars program that is 8 years long. To add to the difficulty of the situation, the BS/DO program is through a state undergraduate school (i.e. low tuition) and the medical school is 10 minutes from home (low expenses). The BS/MD program is through a private undergraduate school (35K) with a 1/2 scholarship and the medical school is also out of state. The MD program is more prestigious and was more difficult to get in and I suspect that it could increase my chance at more competitive residencies down the road. Please don't hammer me with this is just another MD vs. DO thread. There are real pros and cons. Just wanted to see what you all think. Faster and cheaper DO or longer more expensive MD?
 
Go where you'll be happier. One year is going to mean NOTHING in the long run and you will be able to pay off either school's loans. Do you want to stay close to home? Do you want to move away? Would you be happy in a primary care field or do you KNOW that you want to do something more specialized? I will tell you most people in this forum are probably gonna say the MD school because maybe there are less issues going that route. Consider how important money and location are to you and go from there. Either school would be a fine choice and you're lucky to have the chance. Good luck! 🙂
 
I think it really depends on what you think you will want to specialize in. If you are SURE you want to do something like primary care, family practice, peds, psychiatry maybe, I would say go DO, especially since you say the DO school would mean lower tuition and lower cost of living expenses for you. If you're going into one of the abovementioned lower paying specialties, I'm sure you will be happy to have less debt, and it will not really matter that you have a DO instead of an MD degree. However, if you are at all interested in a more competitive specialty like surgery, derm, ortho, etc, definitely definitely go for the MD.
 
While for the most part the specialty argument holds, keep in mind that there are DO's who are neurosurgeons, researchers, etc. And the benefits of going to a low cost school are many, so I would definitely keep that in mind when making your decision. Regardless of what anyone says, 160K in debt is A LOT better than 300K in debt; after all, after making interest payments, you'll probably end up paying back double what you borrowed. But the most important part is to go wherever you will be happy, especially if you're going to be spending 7 or 8 years in the same place. So visit the schools, hang around the students, and go where you feel comfortable.
 
HStoMS said:
I am a high school senoir and it appears I am faced with the choice of attending an accelerated 7 year combined BS/DO program or a BS/MD Medical Scholars program that is 8 years long. To add to the difficulty of the situation, the BS/DO program is through a state undergraduate school (i.e. low tuition) and the medical school is 10 minutes from home (low expenses). The BS/MD program is through a private undergraduate school (35K) with a 1/2 scholarship and the medical school is also out of state. The MD program is more prestigious and was more difficult to get in and I suspect that it could increase my chance at more competitive residencies down the road. Please don't hammer me with this is just another MD vs. DO thread. There are real pros and cons. Just wanted to see what you all think. Faster and cheaper DO or longer more expensive MD?

I'll go against the grain and say perhaps neither is a good idea. College is the time to decide what you want to do with your life, not high school. Most of the people who start out college "pre-med" don't end up pre-med, which is why I find these track programs problematic. You want to take a broad range of courses and see what's out there, and only after you have seen a bit more, and lived a bit more, should you decide whether med school is where it's at for you.
 
Congratulations. I think Law2Doc has a good point, but I might just be saying that because I had no idea what *I* wanted to do in high school, and it turns out even in college I was on a different track. Hee hee.

But anyway... Try to go with your gut instinct. Which school felt more like you could live there for 7-8 years? I wouldn't worry about the "extra" year, it really won't matter. Think back to a year ago from now-- doesn't it seem like it was just yesterday? (Damn, I'm getting old). The debt and proximity to home are important factors, esp since you will be there for 8 years as opposed to 4.

As for specialties... If you do well, you can be a D.O. in any specialty you want. I assume that in 7 years this will be even more common.

Good luck choosing!
 
I totally agree with what everyone else has said. I think you should definitely consider your lifestyle with both schools. If you go for 7 years, you might not getting to really experience the "college" lifestyle. Youll be almost in med school by the time you turn 21. The choice is up to you however I dont know if I would trade a year of my college experience for one extra year in the field.
 
I agree with two legacies. I was premed in college, switched to business. Now at the age of 25 going back to do all my prereqs.

If this is what you truly want in your heart, definitely do the program but look at each of the schools, what they have to offer. Ask specific questions about the med schools and also remember they are two different philosophies. Time is irrelevant in my book. Life is relevant. One year isn't that big of a difference only if you are miserable.
 
mshheaddoc said:
I agree with two legacies. I was premed in college, switched to business. Now at the age of 25 going back to do all my prereqs.

If this is what you truly want in your heart, definitely do the program but look at each of the schools, what they have to offer. Ask specific questions about the med schools and also remember they are two different philosophies. Time is irrelevant in my book. Life is relevant. One year isn't that big of a difference only if you are miserable.

Well said. 👍

I went from business degree >> work >> pre-med.

To the OP: Perhaps you can also post this question in the pre-osteopathic forum (if you haven't already) to get some more diverse responses. I agree with what has been said above--1 year is nothing compared with a career you will have for the rest of your life. I would outline what you like and dislike about each program and literally put them side-by-side to compare.

Good luck :luck:

-tx
 
That you all so much for the great advice. I know I have some thinking to do. I guess I am lucky to have choices. As of right now I am leaning a little toward the 8 year program, for many of the reasons given above. I know I may "miss out" on my last year and I can't do things like a semester abroad if I go 7 years. SO MUCH TO CONSIDER. Yikes! 😱
 
HStoMS said:
That you all so much for the great advice. I know I have some thinking to do. I guess I am lucky to have choices. As of right now I am leaning a little toward the 8 year program, for many of the reasons given above. I know I may "miss out" on my last year and I can't do things like a semester abroad if I go 7 years. SO MUCH TO CONSIDER. Yikes! 😱


The opportunity to study abroad is something you should definitely consider, and I think its a good thing to take into consideration, as you are doing. The thought of doing undergrad in 3 years is appealing in some ways, but I think 4 is the way to go for most people - there is no way I could have had as many great extracurricular experiences as I have had if I went the three-year route.
One thing to consider, and maybe this has already been said, is that the MD degree is much better known by the public than the DO degree. Both are physicians, yes, but I think it could get old defending your degree to those who don't know what a DO is. My old family doc was a DO, and he was (is) a great physician, but the guy routinely has to explain what his degree means and that it is pretty much the same thing as an MD. Since you have the option, and don't seem to have a preference for the philosophy of osteopathy, I think you should go for the MD program (if you decide to enter either program).
 
If I were in your situation I would choose the MD option in a heartbeat.
 
Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread, but I thought that my post was related and I didn't want to start a new thread...

I'm facing a similar choice, except I have to choose between two BA/MD programs or a top undergrad. The three schools are BU BA/MD, Brown BA/ MD, or Yale undergrad. Do you guys think that I should go with the more *prestigious* med school, BU? Or the combination of a good undergrad and good med school, Brown? Or a great undergrad, Yale, where I'd have to worry about getting into med school?

I'm really conflicted, and I don't want to take the easy way out, but I also don't want to risk not getting into med school. Any advice, please?! 🙂
 
BA/MD vs. BA/DO.... go to whichever has the better undergrad. If they're equal, go with the MD as you will have more options.

asterstar: go to Yale (assuming costs are equal/not a concern for your family). Yale is among a select few awesome schools out there that even Brown can't match.

Good luck.
 
I'd go to Yale; from what I hear Yale is a unique undergraduate experience. Plus the connections you'll make there will serve you well for the rest of your life. As far as getting into med schools, just keep doing the kind of stuff you did in high school to get you into Yale and you'll be fine.
 
Kazema said:
I'd go to Yale; from what I hear Yale is a unique undergraduate experience. Plus the connections you'll make there will serve you well for the rest of your life. As far as getting into med schools, just keep doing the kind of stuff you did in high school to get you into Yale and you'll be fine.
Probably agree with this, but the Brown combined program would be tempting though. Brown is an elite undergrad, and while the medical school isn't highly ranked, it does attract a lot of ivy grads (such as those from Yale) and matches very well. So, even if you do go to Yale, you may very well end up at Brown or a lesser known medical school (or not get in all). Just to keep that in mind.
 
TheProwler said:
Don't do either - I'm not a big fan of these combined programs.

I agree. These programs appear to prey on the paranoia of pre-med high school students. Basically if you're good enough to get accepted into one of these programs (which, by the numbers are highly competitive, more so than med school applications themselves) you're going to be good enough to get accepted out of college (presuming you continue to work hard and continue with ECs). Go to college and embrace the freedom that it gives you.
 
I'm not a fan of those programs either but I agree that they are tempting. I would have pry done one out of h.s. if I had done well enough in h.s. to get into one! 🙂 But what a blessing that I didn't...I'm so glad I did the traditional route.
 
hey guys,

i actually did a 6 yr BS/MD program and don't regret anything. but i totally agree...if you're even slightly unsure about medicine (in high school), do your undergrad first and then decide. i saw some people from my program that were forced into it by their parents and they hated every minute of it and ended up either messing up, dropping out or just being really bitchy/depressed. its not a pretty picture.

i actually have a question for you guys. my younger brother is in high school and is also thinking about doing medicine (he's unsure abt the combined program option...but then again, he's just a sophomore). he's extremely smart and wants to know if there are any things he can do to give him an edge as far as getting into those really competitive BS/MD programs like brown, etc. he's already wondering about doing research, etc. what would you guys recommend for research for a high school student? where could he do that? anything else to help him?

i'd appreciate your help. its been a while since i was in high school.

thanks,
gwen
 
HStoMS said:
I am a high school senoir and it appears I am faced with the choice of attending an accelerated 7 year combined BS/DO program or a BS/MD Medical Scholars program that is 8 years long. To add to the difficulty of the situation, the BS/DO program is through a state undergraduate school (i.e. low tuition) and the medical school is 10 minutes from home (low expenses). The BS/MD program is through a private undergraduate school (35K) with a 1/2 scholarship and the medical school is also out of state. The MD program is more prestigious and was more difficult to get in and I suspect that it could increase my chance at more competitive residencies down the road. Please don't hammer me with this is just another MD vs. DO thread. There are real pros and cons. Just wanted to see what you all think. Faster and cheaper DO or longer more expensive MD?

I think the whole straight out of high school thing is a bad idea. When I was in high school I wanted to be an Engineer. Then I wanted to be a Physical Therapist, and then I wanted to be a CRNA which meant being a RN for 2 years, then getting a BSN, and then getting into a CRNA program. I believe it's quite rare to stick with what you wanted to do in high school. As a junior, it’s taken me a while to know what I truly want to do. You learn a lot when you go to a traditional college (Please don't go though college thinking medicine is your only option.). Being out on your own can change your perspective on life and your attributes. I'm not trying to discourage you; I'm just trying to offer you another insightful perspective. If I could go back to my senior year, I would not have changed anything. I have learned a lot at Louisiana Tech University. I have also seen many pre-meds change majors to something like engineering or business. However, if you confidently know what you want to do, I congratulate you. Many people go though life never knowing what they truly want, or how to obtain it. All I can tell you is to follow your heart. I wish you the best of luck. 👍

Yours,
Caraway
 
If you are smart enough to get into a combined program, you are smart enough to get into a better med school for less money probably if you just go to a regular undergrad program. Don't be intimidated by the prospect of not getting into med school, you will be fine if you work hard.
 
gwen said:
hey guys,

i actually did a 6 yr BS/MD program and don't regret anything. but i totally agree...if you're even slightly unsure about medicine (in high school), do your undergrad first and then decide. i saw some people from my program that were forced into it by their parents and they hated every minute of it and ended up either messing up, dropping out or just being really bitchy/depressed. its not a pretty picture.

i actually have a question for you guys. my younger brother is in high school and is also thinking about doing medicine (he's unsure abt the combined program option...but then again, he's just a sophomore). he's extremely smart and wants to know if there are any things he can do to give him an edge as far as getting into those really competitive BS/MD programs like brown, etc. he's already wondering about doing research, etc. what would you guys recommend for research for a high school student? where could he do that? anything else to help him?

i'd appreciate your help. its been a while since i was in high school.

thanks,
gwen

Here’s a list off the top of my head to get him started.

1.) Shadow a physician regularly
2.) Volunteer in nursing homes/hospitals whenever possible
3.) Volunteer with Red Cross or Habitat for Humanity
4.) Letters of recommendation from physicians
5.) I've even heard of students reading to visually impaired children in libraries.
6.) Winning a high school essay/Literature contest couldn’t hurt (Especially if it gets published!).
7.) AHEC is an excellent program for high school students and would probably benefit your brother well.
8.) Most of all, he needs to have an equivalent balance of extraordinary grades and superior extra curricular activities.

I can not stress how important humanitarianism is when it comes to standing out amoung your peers. Anyone can make good grades in high school. He needs to concentrate on more than just grades. I have no idea if these programs require the MCAT. (Especially with the student only being exposed to high school classes).

Among all things remember, if it sounds good, it probably looks good on his application. That’s all I can think of at the moment. I wish him luck.

Yours,
Caraway
 
If you are smart enough to get into a combined program, you are smart enough to get into a better med school for less money probably if you just go to a regular undergrad program. Don't be intimidated by the prospect of not getting into med school, you will be fine if you work hard.


This is a GREAT POINT, one I hope the OP will consider. Consider the benefits of going the traditional route, too...
 
crys20 said:
If you are smart enough to get into a combined program, you are smart enough to get into a better med school for less money probably if you just go to a regular undergrad program. Don't be intimidated by the prospect of not getting into med school, you will be fine if you work hard.


This is a GREAT POINT, one I hope the OP will consider. Consider the benefits of going the traditional route, too...

The reason I say this is that med schools are not stupid; they give these combined program spaces to outstanding students who they believe will be great med school applicants in the future. If they thought they could get better students just from traditional applicants, they wouldn't have the combined programs. You will have many more options coming out of undergrad with good stats.
 
thanks for your advice, caraway! that was really helpful.

as i had mentioned, i did a 6yr BS/MD program and would highly recommend that people stay AWAY from it if they have ANY doubts as a senior in high school. the program does take away 'fun' time from college (b/c you do 2 or 3 years of undergrad depending on the length of your program - mine, luckily, allows you to take anywhere from 6-8 years to finish - you can make undergrad 3 years and med school 5 years if you want to do an extra year of research or something). you have to be a very focused student to take advantage of this accelerated path, only then can you combine fun with school. i had a lot of AP credits from high school. so i did 2 years of undergrad and still had summer breaks (b/c of my AP credits). but a lot of people did not have that advantage and worked all year long. that can be very tiring and frustrating. if you have many interests and are really good in different subjects (like math and english OR dance and drama, etc), then you really need all four years of college to help you evaluate what you are extremely good at and what would be the best career fit for you. and as someone said, if you are smart enough to get into a combined program, then you will certainly do well enough in undergrad to kick a$$ on the MCATs (which, btw, are not a requirement to get INTO a combined program...but once in undergrad...you do need to have a minimum score on them to move on @ my program...but some programs don't even require it!)

i always knew that medicine was my calling from early on and plus, my other interests were nothing close to the medical field. i am very passionate about singing, but honestly did not believe that i was sooooo good that i could make a career out of it. i am also a good artist but again, i didn't (and still don't) think that i could make a career out of it that could actually put food on the table. i'm sure you can have hour-long discussions about that but that's just how i felt about my other two passions. so i still managed to pursue art and music in undergrad but still focused on my pre-med path. remember, you can always get out of a combined program if you decide medicine is not for you. the only disadvantage is that you might be stuck in that undergrad school. but i guess if you're good...you can always transfer to a better undergrad. its just a lot of hassle.

ok, well, i hope that helped someone cause mah hands hurt!

later!
gwen
 
to sortof return to OP's question, I think you should go the MD route, if only to keep all your options open. No matter what you hear, the MD and the DO are not (for better or for worse) seen as completely identical. If you decide eventually to go into any kind of specialty care, you will meet with considerably greater success holding an MD degree. Can it be done with a DO? Sure. Are there as many opportunities? Absolutely not.

the short answer? DO = MD. end of story.

To borrow from one of my previous posts on this topic, however, there are a number of actual difference in the day-to-day practice of medicine between MDs and DOs.

long (real, in my opinion) answer:

Some differences in approach to patient care- with DOs using more physical manipulation (OMT) and musculoskeletal therapy techniques. Personally, and this is just one person's opinion, I'm a little skeptical of the efficacy of some of these therapies. One example that comes to mind are the "craniosacral" therapies that are intended to restore some kind of nonvascular cerebral rhythms. Similarly, the AOA (governing body of osteopathic medicine) approves of chelation therapy despite little proof of efficacy.

Nevertheless, such differences are relatively few and far between and in no way compromise the clinical abilty of most osteopathic physicians. However, borrowing from an excellent article at quackwatch.org:

"The admission standards and educational quality are a bit lower at osteopathic schools than they are at medical schools. I say this because the required and average grade-point averages (GPAs) and the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores of students entering osteopathic schools are lower than those of entering medical students [4,5] -- and the average number of full-time faculty members is nearly ten times as high at medical schools (714 vs. 73 in 1994) [5]. In addition, osteopathic schools generate relatively little research, and some have difficulty in attracting enough patients to provide the depth of experience available at medical schools [6]. However, as with medical graduates, the quality of individual graduates depends on how bright they are, how hard they work, and what training they get after graduation. Those who diligently apply themselves can emerge as competent."

[4]- Doxey TT, Phillips RB. Comparison of entrance requirements for health care professions. Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 20:86-91, 1997.
[5]- Ross-Lee B, Wood DL. Osteopathic medical education. In Sirica CM, editor. Osteopathic Medicine, Past, Present and Future. New York, Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation, 1996, page 95.

Finally, I'd like to address the frustrating claims sometimes made by pre-osteopathic students that allopathic medicine is less patient centered and somehow misses the forest for the trees. While it is true that osteopathic medicine stresses whole body care, allopathic medicine is no different in its approach- a patient (viewed by ANY medical tradition) is substantially more than the sum of his or her parts. Any good medical school teaches this concept and any decent clinician understands its central role in medicine.
 
Thank you all. It is enough to make my head spin. I am shocked that so many are against the combined programs. With that said, the BS/MD is not accelerated and it is the full 8 years. The only difference is that the acceptance is guaranteed if you maintain a 3.3 GPA (seems easy enough) and takes all the pressure off. I thought if anything, it would enhance my undergraduate experience because I would not have to worry about my competitive position. I might be more inclined to try other courses etc. With the 8 year program, I still would be able to do the semester abroad and so forth. I see your points with the 6/7 year programs but does it apply to the 8 year programs. I realize that if I go the traditional route I should still have a good chance of being accepted later on and perhaps even to a better school, but I will have 4 years of just not knowing for sure. Do you think those that changed their minds along the way while in pre-med did so because they believed they may not have a very good shot? Perhaps if they knew they were guaranteed a spot in medical school they would have stuck it out. I know I am only in high school but I am quite sure I want to be a doctor (I have tryed to make an informed decision). Thanks for all the great advice so far and feel free to keep it coming!
 
Well, if it isn't accelerated I guess I might have a different opinion. And I know that you can know when you're 17 you want to be a doc and stick with it..I did! That said, I think alot of people changed their minds because they hated the classes they were taking like ochem and what not, realized they didn't care for science at all, or found something else that sparked their interest like business or law or something else. Most probably changed their mind when they got Cs in gen chem their freshman year. These days, if you're a smart kid and a hard worker you WILL get in someplace. Is the MCAT required at this program? If not I guess that would be an advantage, the not having to take it.

So I don't know. If I were 18 years old and in your shoes I would probably be allured by the program and do it. Now, 3 years later I'm so glad I didn't have the opportunity and didn't go because I wouldn't trade the traditional route for anything. I'm actually kind of excited about applying in June and seeing how it all goes down...Getting the interview invites, going on interviews, finally getting that acceptance letter. If you do the 8 year program I doubt you'll have many regrets, but I don't think you will if you go the other way either. The one thing I would advise you to do is just to peruse yourself in SDN and finding out everything you can about medicine, the premed classes, schools, etc. After that you'll have a better idea of what the journey and the career involves and you can go with all confidence into the 8 year program. Because honestly I don't see you NOT going, so anything anyone says about their distaste for them isn't gonna matter.
 
HStoMS said:
Thank you all. It is enough to make my head spin. I am shocked that so many are against the combined programs. With that said, the BS/MD is not accelerated and it is the full 8 years. The only difference is that the acceptance is guaranteed if you maintain a 3.3 GPA (seems easy enough) and takes all the pressure off. I thought if anything, it would enhance my undergraduate experience because I would not have to worry about my competitive position. I might be more inclined to try other courses etc. With the 8 year program, I still would be able to do the semester abroad and so forth. I see your points with the 6/7 year programs but does it apply to the 8 year programs. I realize that if I go the traditional route I should still have a good chance of being accepted later on and perhaps even to a better school, but I will have 4 years of just not knowing for sure. Do you think those that changed their minds along the way while in pre-med did so because they believed they may not have a very good shot? Perhaps if they knew they were guaranteed a spot in medical school they would have stuck it out. I know I am only in high school but I am quite sure I want to be a doctor (I have tryed to make an informed decision). Thanks for all the great advice so far and feel free to keep it coming!

(note I didn't do a combined program - so i have no direct experience)
I hope you do take onw of the two combined programs. Keeping a nearly perfect GPA, taking extra science you think will help for MCAT or admissions, dedicating a semester to the MCAT and two semesters to applications.... none of these are positive experiences. Applying, in my experience, is a very long, demanding, draining and negative experience. Ask this question on the "havent heard a word" or "waitlist" threads...many would have given anything not to have gone through the stress of the admissions process. You will be allowed a lot more freedom in course selection, extra curriculars, fun time etc on the guranteed route. This could give you the chance to really explore college, expose yourself to different fields, etc. It never hurts to continue to explore medicine. This will only give you more "credibility" with doctors - and you will likely find shadowing opportunities easier to obtain. You could begin exploring career choices now.

The only negatives are personal to you - do you think these schools will limit you in the future? I don't think you can know at this point what specialty you want to go into - so you might investigate thier match lists for various competitive specialties. That said - this would be a relatively minor consideration to my mind.
 
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