Choose: 3.7 from Harvard or 4.0 from ____ State University

[blaithnaid]

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For "de?" If that means disadvantaged background, then of course I do think those and URMs should get boosts. What does that have to do with looking at a student's GPA relative to his or her school?

pretend that says ED. lol and a half.

b/c urm and ed can inform acad work. and i didn't just mean you, but anyone's gonna go with hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhvahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhd b/c it's hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhvahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhd rather than the best person for the job.

 

[schrizto]

Not all schools use such a quantitative method for decisions. For example, how many points should one get for coming from an economically disadvantaged household? What about if the student was a national ping pong champion? What about if the student had a 3.1 from Harvard but it was because her father passed away during her sophomore year and she received 3 D's that semester?

Those things can still be quantified. There could be set guidelines, like: disadvantaged background, add 2-5 points based on magnitude. URM, add five points. Family problems, add 2 points. 😛

It was said before that ECs can be assigned numerical values but it's done by human judgment. It could be the same for extenuating factors.

 

[randombetch]

This is why GPA is a grossly overblown factor in admissions.

It's not standardized and comparisons are too subjective.

MCAT should be weighted much more heavily than GPA, IMHO.

Yup, totally agree.

"Profile OVER 9000"
LMAO

 

[PlayHockey247]

You are quite mistaken. The Ivy schools are known for inflating GPAs.

Nope....also mistaken.

It is true that there are particular schools within the Ivy League that are known to inflate. Harvard happens to be considered one of them.

There are schools, however, that do not. Cornell is an example. You are more likely to be curved down at Cornell than curved up.

Regarding GPA, here is, paraphrased, what an admissions committee member at an east-coast medical school told me a couple years ago when I ran into him at work:

Admissions committees are usually aware of how easy or difficult it is to get a high GPA in a particular major at a particular school. For schools with harsh grading systems (Cornell was the example in this case), committees may increase a GPA by a couple decimals for the sake of reviewing the file with a fair concept of what the GPA actually represents.

Hope this helps.

 

[FuturaDocta]

They both have great stats. It would all come down to the interview. Whichever student "sparkles" the most wins! (Note: I wasn't making any references to twilight)

 

[FSAP]

This is why GPA is a grossly overblown factor in admissions.

It's not standardized and comparisons are too subjective.

MCAT should be weighted much more heavily than GPA, IMHO.

I don't like the MCAT either from personal experience. I got 33 the first time and after not studying much I took it again and got a 36. I was just less freaked out about it the second time, but certainly did not get 3 points smarter.

 

[FuturaDocta]

I don't like the MCAT either from personal experience. I got 33 the first time and after not studying much I took it again and got a 36. I was just less freaked out about it the second time, but certainly did not get 3 points smarter.

nice job!

 

[bannie22]

I don't like the MCAT either from personal experience. I got 33 the first time and after not studying much I took it again and got a 36. I was just less freaked out about it the second time, but certainly did not get 3 points smarter.

Good opportunity to show us how smart you are. 👍

Yeah, I only took it once unfortunately.

 

[guyski79]

I don't like the MCAT either from personal experience. I got 33 the first time and after not studying much I took it again and got a 36. I was just less freaked out about it the second time, but certainly did not get 3 points smarter.

Right, but my point is that everyone takes the same test. (Yes, I know that it's not exactly the same test for everyone).

You can compare two applicants' MCAT scores much more objectively than you can compare their GPAs.

 

[JJMrK]

http://gradeinflation.com/Harvard.html

No, I was looking for data that supported your statement that Harvard students are getting into medical school with an average GPA of 3.3. The data you provided me essentially says the opposite, since it's a trend of increasing GPAs.

 

[jla314]

according to our OCS, in 2008 96% of harvard applicants are accepted with a gpa greater than 3.5, and 91% are accepted with a gpa greater than 3.3. the average gpa of an acceptee was 3.66 (harvard senior) and 3.5 (harvard alum). average mcat of the harvard applicants was 35

 

[jla314]

double post 🙂

 

[JJMrK]

No, I was looking for data that supported your statement that Harvard students are getting into medical school with an average GPA of 3.3. The data you provided me essentially says the opposite, since it's a trend of increasing GPAs.

Turns out I misread your statement. Your OP just said that the average GPA of Harvard grads is 3.3+, which seems to be true. I thought you were implying that the average GPA for accepted students from Harvard was 3.3. My bad. 👍

 

[randombetch]

Wow - exactly 50/50.

 

[slowbutsteady]

according to our OCS, in 2008 96% of harvard applicants are accepted with a gpa greater than 3.5, and 91% are accepted with a gpa greater than 3.3. the average gpa of an acceptee was 3.66 (harvard senior) and 3.5 (harvard alum). average mcat of the harvard applicants was 35

Now that is an amazing statistic and proves the point that the Harvard kid will win every time!!!

someone find the % of applicants with a 3.3 GPA from all schools who get accepted. i'm too lazy, but i bet it is MUCH lower than 91%.

 

[jla314]

Now that is an amazing statistic and proves the point that the Harvard kid will win every time!!!

someone find the % of applicants with a 3.3 GPA from all schools who get accepted. i'm too lazy, but i bet it is MUCH lower than 91%.

it's not exactly those who have a 3.3 - it's the acceptance rate for students who have between a 3.3 and a 4.0. but yeah it's high

 

[randombetch]

Now that is an amazing statistic and proves the point that the Harvard kid will win every time!!!

someone find the % of applicants with a 3.3 GPA from all schools who get accepted. i'm too lazy, but i bet it is MUCH lower than 91%.

it's not exactly those who have a 3.3 - it's the acceptance rate for students who have between a 3.3 and a 4.0. but yeah it's high

Using this table:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

There was no 3.3-3.X section so I had to split up the 3.2-3.39 section

Acceptance rate for students with GPA's from 3.2 to 4.0: 53.3% (49k/92k)
Acceptance rate for students with GPA's from 3.4 to 4.0: 58.9% (43.6k/74.1k)

Averaging those two numbers, you get 56.1%.

Of course, Harvard kids with GPA's from 3.3-4.0 obviously had higher MCAT scores and better opportunities in addition to having the Harvard name and having their GPA's looked relative to their school.

 

[bannie22]

dont worry randomb, i am sure princeton has a 92%.

 

[randombetch]

dont worry randomb, i am sure princeton has a 92%.

*93%, and that's for all applicants (I think like 2.8-4.0).

 

[bannie22]

fk princeton. 😛

 

[JJMrK]

Now that is an amazing statistic and proves the point that the Harvard kid will win every time!!!

someone find the % of applicants with a 3.3 GPA from all schools who get accepted. i'm too lazy, but i bet it is MUCH lower than 91%.

The problem with these statistics is that they're self reported and we don't know how they were determined. Is there a letter-writing committee at Harvard, and does it screen out students who might drag the statistics down? Or do they only count people who go through the pre-med office? I personally have no idea, but these are things you have to keep in mind when you look at statistics like this.

 

[randombetch]

The problem with these statistics is that they're self reported and we don't know how they were determined. Is there a letter-writing committee at Harvard, and does it screen out students who might drag the statistics down? Or do they only count people who go through the pre-med office? I personally have no idea, but these are things you have to keep in mind when you look at statistics like this.

It would be those who go through the pre-med office (no way Harvard screens), which would be pretty much everybody since that's how they get a committee letter. I'm sure everyone who applied from Harvard had a committee letter - there's no reason for someone to not get one from their health advisers, which I'm sure are great at what they do.

 

[BBender716]

I haven't heard of one of the schools in your poll:

Penn State State University. Hm....


or I could just be a jackass

 

[bannie22]

It would be those who go through the pre-med office (no way Harvard screens), which would be pretty much everybody since that's how they get a committee letter. I'm sure everyone who applied from Harvard had a committee letter - there's no reason for someone to not get one from their health advisers, which I'm sure are great at what they do.

Now that I think about it, you probably have nobel prize winners writing those letters for you. And the faculty were probably the "leader" of their generation... so its like double whammy. lol

 

[schrizto]

Now that I think about it, you probably have nobel prize winners writing those letters for you. And the faculty were probably the "leader" of their generation... so its like double whammy. lol

It's probably not Nobel winners in the pre-med letter writing committee but students there could rub elbows with the high profile faculty. A friend at Princeton met John Nash in their first week there...

 

[neuro raqs]

Yale.

 

[The Z]

.................

 

[vickpick]

harvard of course... the student mustve worked incredibly hard to get into harvard... so that help him in the future too.. by helping him w/ the name and prestige factor

 

[MilkmanAl]

You're advocating taking high school performance into account in med school admission? No thanks.

 

[randombetch]

You're advocating taking high school performance into account in med school admission? No thanks.

Regardless of high school performance, a 3.7 at Harvard is a bigger feat (and speaks more about the student's academic caliber) in my eyes than a 4.0 at a state school.

I think more 3.7 Harvard students can get a 4.0 at a state school than 4.0 state school students can get a 3.7+ at Harvard. Of course, there's no way of proving any of this, and I'm heavily biased. 😛

 

[MilkmanAl]

A couple of my high school friends said they coasted through Harvard. However, they were really intelligent people. In any case, it's probably wise to stow that bias of yours. 😉

 

[randombetch]

A couple of my high school friends said they coasted through Harvard. However, they were really intelligent people. In any case, it's probably wise to stow that bias of yours. 😉

Haha dang, well I'm sure they would have coasted through Penn State or OSU as well.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Perhaps, but I'd wager that Harvard isn't the grade inflation poster child for no reason.

 

[JJMrK]

Regardless of high school performance, a 3.7 at Harvard is a bigger feat (and speaks more about the student's academic caliber) in my eyes than a 4.0 at a state school.

I think more 3.7 Harvard students can get a 4.0 at a state school than 4.0 state school students can get a 3.7+ at Harvard. Of course, there's no way of proving any of this, and I'm heavily biased. 😛

🙂

 

[guyski79]

Regardless of high school performance, a 3.7 at Harvard is a bigger feat (and speaks more about the student's academic caliber) in my eyes than a 4.0 at a state school.

I think more 3.7 Harvard students can get a 4.0 at a state school than 4.0 state school students can get a 3.7+ at Harvard. Of course, there's no way of proving any of this, and I'm heavily biased. 😛

Which again proves my point that it's stupid to factor in GPA so heavily.

It's just way too subjective and there are too many factors of a GPA to adjust for.

 

[sustentacular]

you are quite mistaken. The ivy schools are known for inflating gpas.

+1

 

[randombetch]

you are quite mistaken. The ivy schools are known for inflating gpas.

+1

GPAs across the country have been inflated over the past couple decades.

Harvard gives way more A's than state schools, but obviously there are smarter kids at Harvard who do higher quality work.

 

[DRMRL]

3.7 GPA from Harvard. No question.

 

[chman]

GPAs across the country have been inflated over the past couple decades.

Harvard gives way more A's than state schools, but obviously there are smarter kids at Harvard who do higher quality work.

While it is true that GPAs have gone up nation wide, I find your argument flawed. Yes, Harvard has smarter students than the average state school, but it is also supposed to be more difficult than the average state school. Therefor, the supposed higher difficulty should make up the difference, which in turn should make it just as hard to get good grades there. That is, after all, the premise to this thread.

 

[randombetch]

While it is true that GPAs have gone up nation wide, I find your argument flawed. Yes, Harvard has smarter students than the average state school, but it is also supposed to be more difficult than the average state school. Therefor, the supposed higher difficulty should make up the difference, which, in turn, should make it just as hard to get good grades there. That is, after all, the premise to this thread.

I find your argument no less flawed than mine.

You're basically saying Harvard's grade inflation exceeds the student caliber differential, and I'm basically saying Harvard's student caliber differential exceeds the grade inflation.

Who's right? Well, you think you're right. I think I'm right. Neither of us can prove anything. We can only go by anecdotal evidence...

 

[chman]

I find your argument no less flawed than mine.

You're basically saying Harvard's grade inflation exceeds the student caliber differential, and I'm basically saying Harvard's student caliber differential exceeds the grade inflation.

Who's right? Well, you think you're right. I think I'm right. Neither of us can prove anything. We can only go by anecdotal evidence...

I guess. But there are other ivy schools, such as Princeton, where the average for A's is 35% across all departments.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-03-27-princeton-grades_N.htm

I doubt that the students at Harvard are much different than the students at Princeton, as far as academics and ability goes.

I am not saying Harvard is easy, or that one does not need to be smart to get an A there. It just seems that grade inflation could be part of the equation, and perhaps more so than other institutions.

 

[schrizto]

4.0 from state school is winning again...

 

[ApoK]

You are all idiots. The truth of the matter is that Harvard and state school students are all pretenders, regardless of GPA. The only truly outstanding students are Rhodes Scholars from Oxford, obviously. No one else really should even bother applying to top 10 schools. When will SDNers ever learn?

 

[randombetch]

Oxford's a joke - Cambridge all the way!

 

[vandyfootball]

I don't think you guys understand the fact that 80-90 percent of the kids at top 20 schools with 3.5+ gpas and 30 mcat scores will be accepted to medical school.


A 4.0 from a state university IMO is equilavent to a 3.5 from a top 20 university, because a 4.0 gpa from a state school and a 30+ mcat score results in an 80-90 percent chance of getting into medical school (which is equivalent to a 3.5+ gpa(from a top 20 school)/30+ mcat score= 80-90 percent acceptance rate to medical school

The 3.5+/30+ mcat score is true for schools like Emory/Vandy/Rice/Cornell/Brown.

I am sure that for schools like Harvard, it can go as low as a 3.37+ and a 30+ mcat score.


The reasons top schools have a higher percentage of As is because the students are more gifted, not because their is grade inflation, but because the students deserve to get As(they are a lot more qualified than kids from other schools)

 

[onb2014]

are you kidding me? 3.7 from harvard. because that means you went to harvard -- and that will carry weight well beyond med school admissions. IMO, med schools don't respect the top-tier schools as much as they should. Many below-average HYP students were valedictorians at their high schools -- and the majority of their high school classmates went to ___ State University.

 

[Handinhand]

4.0 hands down. I think a lot of people underestimate just how hard it is to get a 4.0. Think about it. You average taking around 40 classes throughout college, and to not get anything but an A in any of them? Luckily most adcoms aren't going to be as naive as the general populous in pre-allo and can recognize how impressive the 4.0 is.

 

[surftheiop]

3.7 from Harvard and its not even close.

Either way your getting into medical school, 10-15 years down the road nobody will ever care what your undergrad GPA was, but going to Harvard will always turn heads.

(Not saying my goal in life is to impress people, but if someone offered me a 4.0 at a big state school, or a Harvard degree its an easy decision)

Having a big name somewhere on your CV opens doors, most importantly because a lot of people whom it would be beneficial to impress also have some big names on their CV.

 

[MilkmanAl]

You really believe that going to Harvard (or any other big-name school) for college will affect your prospects as a medical professional?

 

[surftheiop]

You really believe that going to Harvard (or any other big-name school) for college will affect your prospects as a medical professional?

Not really, But I am 100000000% sure that getting a 4.0 will definitely not affect my prospects.

But going to Harvard for undergrad would give you something in common with alot of academics down the road (if your interested in academics).

It seems like 50% of academics went to an Ivy at some point in their career (undergrad/medschool/residency/fellowship,etc) and seeing that name on the CV makes them think of you as "one of them"

(I'm at a lesser Ivy than Harvard, but when I meet someone in academics and tell them where I am at school, they assume a certain level of competency before they even know anything about me)