Choosing a Med School... How to read a match list??

[desout777]

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Hey,

I'm already into med school and I'm interested in going into some sort of surgery (i've wanted to be a surgeon all my life). I am interested in clinical practice and maybe, when I get older, becoming involved in a public health/healthcare policy role. I am also contemplating practicing overseas since the healthcare systems in many countries desperately need to be modernized. (I am from such a country but have chosen to get my MD in the US since...well... we're the best)

I'm wondering if, based on my goals, you all can give me some advice on how to choose a med school. I have the options of going to a top 25 brand name med school ($$$$$) or to my state school ($). I think the brand name school would give me some additional credibility and may allow me to work with more top notch professors and researchers in med school, but would put me into debt for a long time. Going to my state school I would have a much more managable debt (especially if i choose to work in a developing country where docs make less when converted to US Dollars) but I am afraid that I may have more difficulty getting into a top surgical residency program.

I'm assuming the best way to see if I can get the kind of residency I want is to look at my state school's match list, but I have no idea how to read it since you cant tell how many people actually WANTED competitive residencies.... Any advice on how to read a match list?

Any advice or discussion would be appreciated!

 

[braluk]

Would you like me to move this thread to allo forums? granted you are not in med school yet, but you'll get better and more accurate responses from students actually preparin go to through their match. Let me know if you want this moved.

 

[Towelie]

Reading match lists is extraordinarily difficult. Are you able to get your state school's match list from past years? Looking at the surgical matches for the last 5 years might help.

To throw in my own 2 cents, I think you should go to your state school. If you are capable of getting in to a top private school, then you are probably capable of doing extremely well in medical school. If you get good grades, great board scores, and participate in research, you'll be able to get any residency you want.

 

[desout777]

braluck, go ahead and move it. med students will probably have more useful stuff to say on this topic...

 

[popbirch]

Actually I think the best way to look at match lists is to not look at the how many people are going into surgery or into any specific specialty because that is a huge variable. It can vary based on interest so it doesn't really help look at the schools ability to help you get into a 'top' residency. I think the best way to look at match lists is to look through all of the programs people are getting into and the competiveness of those programs regardless of specialty. I think that tells you the most about how residencies view that particular school. For example, if the school sends a lot of people to Mass general, UCLA, UCSF, Mayo, Cedar Sinai, etc...
Thats how I looked at match lists. Check out some of the best hospitals for what you want to do and see if that school is getting people into those residencies.

 

[Bertelman]

I'll second the state school vote. You can find many threads which beat the topic to a pulp, but your situation is a little more clear in my eyes. You will likely end up practicing in a foreign country, thus your income will be much less, making the debt of a state school much easier to bear.

If you are a strong candidate, you can get a competitive residency no matter which American med school you attend. Go for the top-notch school for your residency, when you will be paid the same no matter where you go. As a surgeon, where you train for residency is much more important than where you attended med school. Remember, too, that if you really believe in returning to a foreign land to improve their care, they won't be upset if you didn't train at Harvard.

 

[vtucci]

How many students go to a "prestigious" hospital for residency is one way of looking at the match lists. However, this approach has problems too. For example, many students choose to stay in the area where they went to medical school (for example, if they go to med school in Fl, they often stick with the FL hospitals, many of which are not as nationally renowned as Mass Gen). This is not to say that they could not have matched at one of those programs but the match process is a very personal choice that often takes into consideration where people want to live and practice medicine. For many people, this trumps name recognition/reputation.

Also, some programs like Emergency Medicine have older, more established residencies at hospitals that you may not have ever thought of to include in your list (i.e., Vandy, Denver, UofA, UofMaryland, Cook County) and what is "prestigious" in medicine or surgery may not be as prestigious in EM.

If you are hard core about surgery, it might behoove you to speak with the Chief of Surgery/Clerkship Director for Surgery at the different medical schools you have been accepted at and listen to what they have to say.

 

[NEATOMD]

Honestly, from what I've heard most hospitals don't really care where you did your residency when they look at hiring a surgeon. From what I've heard from several hospital admins is that's the big name residency is really only important if you plan on doing academic medicine and are wanting to publish. Going to a foreign country would not really fall into that category. Further, keep in mind that the prestige of residency programs often has more to do with heritage (age) and location more so than the quality of its clinical training. I'm sure that those who fought to get those top residencies might argue that the training is better (and it might be at some), but really, there's not much hard evidence to prove this. In the end, if you choose clinical medicine, most patients won't know where you went to undergrad, med school, or residency...because 99% won't care. Heck, most don't even know the difference between a MD, a DO, or a PA.

So, perhaps a better question would be: If I go to my state school, can I still get a surgical residency? I think the answer would most likely be yes, especially if your state school has a surgical residency program.

 

[Gut Shot]

I have the options of going to a top 25 brand name med school ($$$$$) or to my state school ($).

State school. Next question?

 

[Northerner]

Would you like me to move this thread to allo forums? granted you are not in med school yet, but you'll get better and more accurate responses from students actually preparin go to through their match. Let me know if you want this moved.

What's wrong with you...

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm assuming the best way to see if I can get the kind of residency I want is to look at my state school's match list, but I have no idea how to read it since you cant tell how many people actually WANTED competitive residencies.... Any advice on how to read a match list?

The problem with match lists is that unless you actually know something about the various residency programs in your desired specialty, you have to make huge, and usually wrong, assumptions. The only good way to interpret a match list is to actually sit down with a mentor or two who are clinicians in your desired field, and find out from them what they know about various programs, and which ones are good versus malignant. The programs in various specialties do not necessarilly track the med school rankings in US News all that tightly. And lots of people who can get into certain specialties are simply not interested in certain specialties, so you cannot assume a school does well or poorly based on, eg the number of people it sends to derm. So I guess what I am saying is until you have actually chosen a specialty and know some mentors in that specialty, you will have a hard time knowing what programs are of interest to you. And you are very likely to change your mind about specialties at least once in med school. So leave the match lists to the side -- there are plenty of more pertinent factors you can use to select your school.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Hey,

I'm already into med school and I'm interested in going into some sort of surgery (i've wanted to be a surgeon all my life). I am interested in clinical practice and maybe, when I get older, becoming involved in a public health/healthcare policy role. I am also contemplating practicing overseas since the healthcare systems in many countries desperately need to be modernized. (I am from such a country but have chosen to get my MD in the US since...well... we're the best)

I'm wondering if, based on my goals, you all can give me some advice on how to choose a med school. I have the options of going to a top 25 brand name med school ($$$$$) or to my state school ($). I think the brand name school would give me some additional credibility and may allow me to work with more top notch professors and researchers in med school, but would put me into debt for a long time. Going to my state school I would have a much more managable debt (especially if i choose to work in a developing country where docs make less when converted to US Dollars) but I am afraid that I may have more difficulty getting into a top surgical residency program.

I'm assuming the best way to see if I can get the kind of residency I want is to look at my state school's match list, but I have no idea how to read it since you cant tell how many people actually WANTED competitive residencies.... Any advice on how to read a match list?

Any advice or discussion would be appreciated!

A match list can tell you two things: WHAT students go into, and WHERE they go.

WHAT they go into will tell you the kind of students that school attracts, and perhaps what the curriculum/clinical experience emphasizes. Is 2/3 of the school going into Peds and IM? You may not want to go there if you want to do CT Surg.

WHERE they go will either tell you how competitive the graduates are, or where they want to live.

 

[Bertelman]

"That school really pushes primary care." I've heard that statement, or something similar, all over SDN. I'm not sure I understand how it works. I can understand from a recruitment aspect, they choose those that throw the crap in their essay, or whatever. But once you're there, unless the group of students is just extremely malleable, I'm not sure how a curriculum or group of instructors can "push" someone into a certain field.

At my school, last year like 9/200 matched ENT. That's quite a bit. I'm not exactly going to a top 20 school, and let's just say even the admins were surpsised we matched so many. This year it's Peds. Like 40/200 are doing Peds. Last 2 years, 30 did anesthesia, but tha's down this year. Sometimes these numbers just fluctuate, if for no other reason than that great speaker the Peds interest group invited, or whatever. Or maybe it's because our homecoming queen is doing Peds, and just EVERY girl wants to be her.

 

[fakin' the funk]

"That school really pushes primary care." ...But once you're there, unless the group of students is just extremely malleable, I'm not sure how a curriculum or group of instructors can "push" someone into a certain field.

Curriculum/instructors don't push people into disciplines; the school's reputation and perceived strengths of affiliated hospitals attract certain types of students. Don't you think a school in a small town is going to attract more students who want to do rural-America primary care, or that EM-interested students are going to go to a school with an affiliated trauma hospital?

And, from what I've seen, students are pretty UN-malleable about what they like in general. You see any mom-to-be Peds fans suddenly becoming enthralled with Ortho? You see any surgery gunners deciding to do primary care for the underserved?

 

[Bertelman]

Curriculum/instructors don't push people into disciplines; the school's reputation and perceived strengths of affiliated hospitals attract certain types of students. Don't you think a school in a small town is going to attract more students who want to do rural-America primary care, or that EM-interested students are going to go to a school with an affiliated trauma hospital?

And, from what I've seen, students are pretty UN-malleable about what they like in general. You see any mom-to-be Peds fans suddenly becoming enthralled with Ortho? You see any surgery gunners deciding to do primary care for the underserved?

I can understand how the top schools would attract those students that would be more likely to enter specialties v. primary care, but I don't think there is much logic to what happens at the vast majority of med schools. Most pre-meds either don't really know what they want to do, or will change their mind at some point, so I don't think letting your desires shape which med school you choose will greatly affect how many, say, urologists come out of one school. I know this is just one example, but my school has a Level 1 trauma center, but no EM residency. We're still matching into EM, and I would frankly be surprised if many of those going into ER were even aware there was no residency at our school before signing up.

And of course I'm not seeing Peds fans switching to Ortho. But I also don't hear too much about someone going to X school because the Peds dept. is so great. I feel like people choose schools because of overall name recognition, the town it is in, the students they met or know, or just whichever school accepts them.

I'm not calling you out on the original statement. I've heard this on several occasions here. I just haven't seen any convincing argument that justifies the statement.

 

[Bitsy3221]

Go to your state school. Having just finished my surgery residency interviews and getting ready to graduate from a state medical school, I can tell you that by and large I do not think I was discriminated against b/c of my medical school. I got some great interviews, and some great feedback from some pretty top notch programs--heck even I was surprised.

Several of my surgery mentors told me that undergrad and med school name doesn't matter, it's your residency that will follow you throughout your career. In the surgery arena, you always hear people described as "the guy from so-and so" or "you know her, she's from XYZ." Bear in mind that I do want to go into academics, although I too also want to do international work as part of my career, so take my advise based on that. But I don't think that as long as you do well, you won't have many doors closed to you based on going to a state school, just a lot less debt!

Good luck. 🙂

 

[MartianOddity]

Hey,
(I am from such a country but have chosen to get my MD in the US since...well... we're the best)

Not necessarily. Poland has excellent MD programs as well. I just had to have that said (prepares to get bashed).

But I understand why you want to study in the US anyways.