Choosing a School Based on USMLE Score or Match List

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iPhone said:
Hello,

I know it's early, but I'm trying to decide between a couple of schools and have heard "you should choose based on the highest Step 1 score" and "you should choose based on the strongest match list."

Are these any indicator of the strength of a particular school?

If tuition, location, "rank," and "feel during interview" were pretty much the same between two schools, how would you chose between the two?

Thank you very much! 🙂
Click to expand...

I think those are great things to look at it all the other things are equal!
 
I'd probably take match list over step 1 score as the latter is simply influential to the former, which is what really matters. They are both, however, more likely to be influenced by who the schools have going to them (i.e., the students) than the school itself. More selective schools get the best students and therefore have the best match lists, USMLE Step 1 avgs, etc. It's kind of like picking between UG institutions by which one has students w/ the highest MCAT scores....
 
Well, USMLE scores are not public knowledge. Schools' claims about their USMLE scores are, but that's not especially helpful. On the other hand, it will be hard for you to evaluate a match list without investigating the desirability/competitiveness of every single residency programs in every field.

So I'd say both are equally useless.
 
Flip a coin. Or choose the one with more matches into derm/plastics.
 
i dont mean to thread hijack.....

...BUT.....is there a list of the best residencies? that way one could know looking at a match list if it is indeed a good one.
 
jturkel said:
i dont mean to thread hijack.....

...BUT.....is there a list of the best residencies? that way one could know looking at a match list if it is indeed a good one.
Click to expand...

Not a single list. You could probably dig up them specialty by specailty. Or you can do it the quick and dirty way by just using US New's specialty ranking. While a hospitals fame in a given specialty doesn't necessarily correlate to a high rank in that specialty for residency training, there are a lot of similarities.
 
iPhone said:
Hello,

I know it's early, but I'm trying to decide between a couple of schools and have heard "you should choose based on the highest Step 1 score" and "you should choose based on the strongest match list."

Are these any indicator of the strength of a particular school?

If tuition, location, "rank," and "feel during interview" were pretty much the same between two schools, how would you chose between the two?

Thank you very much! 🙂
Click to expand...

First off, med school "rankings" are a bunch of hot air. Outside of 2 or 3 schools USNAWR rankings really don't mean that much. My unranked school has an extremely good reputation amongst PD as producing excellent clinicians and our match lists are always very diversified and sending students to very competitive programs. More important would be to ask if/how the school preps your for your board exam and what does the school do if they see a student is having trouble in a class.
 
JTruj said:
First off, med school "rankings" are a bunch of hot air. Outside of 2 or 3 schools USNAWR rankings really don't mean that much. My unranked school has an extremely good reputation amongst PD as producing excellent clinicians and our match lists are always very diversified and sending students to very competitive programs. More important would be to ask if/how the school preps your for your board exam and what does the school do if they see a student is having trouble in a class.
Click to expand...
All the residency directors i've spoken to say otherwise.

Being from a top school isnt the golden key to greatness but it helps
 
I would argue strongly for "neither"

Step 1 scores - first off, these are entirely word of mouth and only very rarely are they actually given to you by the school. Second off, every single school somehow manages to come off with an "above national average" average (implying at least some playing with the numbers?). Third off, as has been said over and over, Step 1 scores are largely a function of individual aptitude and effort

Match lists - premeds make a big deal out of these without having any real clue as to which matches are "good" or "bad"
 
southernIM said:
I would argue strongly for "neither"

Step 1 scores - first off, these are entirely word of mouth and only very rarely are they actually given to you by the school. Second off, every single school somehow manages to come off with an "above national average" average (implying at least some playing with the numbers?). Third off, as has been said over and over, Step 1 scores are largely a function of individual aptitude and effort

Match lists - premeds make a big deal out of these without having any real clue as to which matches are "good" or "bad"
Click to expand...

👍

Both Step 1 scores and match lists are completely useless; along with US News Rankings. :laugh:
 
Step 1 scores are generally more a function of the kind of students that attend, not as much the school. Although, that information can be useful in and of itself if you're interested in it.
 
jturkel said:
i dont mean to thread hijack.....

...BUT.....is there a list of the best residencies? that way one could know looking at a match list if it is indeed a good one.
Click to expand...
Hell no. This is HIGHLY dependent on your goals and specialty. If you want to be a department chairman with a large NIH-funded laboratory, then yes, you probably should go to a big academic center for residency. If you want to be a private practice surgeon/internist/pediatrician/OB-gyn/anesthesiologist/etc., then you might be happier in a community program.

Finding a residency isn't just about reading down a list. There's a reason that they do on-site interviews. It's for them to meet you, but it's also for you to interview THEM. Do the residents look like a bunch of jerks? They probably are, and you might not want to go there. I'm interviewing for surgery now, and there's a lot of "gut feel" to this process.

Also, many of the lesser-known residencies have higher salaries and better benefits. Something else to consider.
 
iPhone said:
Hello,

I know it's early, but I'm trying to decide between a couple of schools and have heard "you should choose based on the highest Step 1 score" and "you should choose based on the strongest match list."

Are these any indicator of the strength of a particular school?

If tuition, location, "rank," and "feel during interview" were pretty much the same between two schools, how would you chose between the two?

Thank you very much! 🙂
Click to expand...

First, don't ever trust your "feel during interview." You simply don't have the time to get an accurate feel of a school during an interview.

Think of the situation logically, why would you want a higher Step 1 score? To get into better residencies right? So why would you look at Step 1 score over a match list? Some schools have high Step 1 scores but mediocre match lists, while some have mediocre Step 1 scores and awesome match lists. Obviously, if your goal is to match into a better residency, you should pick the school with better match lists.
 
iPhone said:
Are these any indicator of the strength of a particular school?
Click to expand...

If you had years of data on thousands of medical students, their academic records (including undergraduate), and their USMLE scores, perhaps you could draw a conclusion about a given school's success at preparing students for Step 1.

If you had years of detailed surveys and interviews with thousands of residents in all specialties, as well as comprehensive data on their academic records, perhaps you could draw a conclusion about a given school's success at getting its students matched according to their individual desires.

If you don't have any of this information, you are better off choosing a school based other factors, like curriculum, miles from the beach, miles from skiing, and the number of bars per capita.
 
Oof, that is tough one.

I'm surprised that tuition is not a major factor. Cost would be my #1 concern.

With regard to curriculum, I loved my med school's block system. It was nice actually having exams every 2-3 weeks, rather than some epic series of midterms and finals.

How about the grading system? Number of hospitals serviced? M3 reputation for being hands on versus observational? Number of residency programs? Are any of the schools strapped for cash and going through a series of painful budget cuts? They are all in Chicago, but how about the area around each school? I gravitated towards the dirty urban school with a huge indigent population. The country club would have been more pleasant, but for educational purposes there is no substitute for a high volume of messed up people with messed up problems.
 
Parts Unknown said:
Oof, that is tough one.

I'm surprised that tuition is not a major factor. Cost would be my #1 concern.

With regard to curriculum, I loved my med school's block system. It was nice actually having exams every 2-3 weeks, rather than some epic series of midterms and finals.

How about the grading system? Number of hospitals serviced? M3 reputation for being hands on versus observational? Number of residency programs? Are any of the schools strapped for cash and going through a series of painful budget cuts? They are all in Chicago, but how about the area around each school? I gravitated towards the dirty urban school with a huge indigent population. The country club would have been more pleasant, but for educational purposes there is no substitute for a high volume of messed up people with messed up problems.
Click to expand...

These are all very good questions...obviously med school is a multifactorial decision but I would consider each and every one of those factors (and the "correct" answer to these questions might actually vary from person to person)
 
dingyibvs said:
First, don't ever trust your "feel during interview." You simply don't have the time to get an accurate feel of a school during an interview.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Feel is incredibly important.

Trusting the match list is just imaginative at the level of a pre-med.
 
dingyibvs said:
First, don't ever trust your "feel during interview." You simply don't have the time to get an accurate feel of a school during an interview.

Think of the situation logically, why would you want a higher Step 1 score? To get into better residencies right? So why would you look at Step 1 score over a match list? Some schools have high Step 1 scores but mediocre match lists, while some have mediocre Step 1 scores and awesome match lists. Obviously, if your goal is to match into a better residency, you should pick the school with better match lists.
Click to expand...

This is the one of the most uninformed worst advice posts I have ever read on SDN in the last 4 years.

Feel is definitely important, while as I stated before, matchlists and Step 1 scores are completely useless.

Pre-meds LOVE LOVE LOVE to believe that the almight matchlist is the holy grail, but here is a quick example on how it sucks.

1. 10 students, all want FM, all get their #1 choice

Conclusion: This is a GREAT match for students at school YYY.
SDN Pre-Med Conclusion: Omg...WTF...LAME...no derm or plastics...this matchlist SUCKS

2. 10 students, all want derm, only 8 apply (2 are advised against it), 6 match at their last choice.

Conclusion: Students with high chances of not matching were advised against it (good advice); those who matched derm are obviously doing what they wanted to do, but in an undesirable program compared to their first choice.
SDN Pre-Med Conclusion: WOW!!!! Did you see XXXX matchlist. 6 DERM, this school is so much better then YYY.

And that is why matchlists are useless unless you knew what each person wanted to do, where they ranked each program on their matchlist, and what other factors were important to them (maybe they wanted to be Idaho because that's where they grew up...maybe they wanted to be in Iowa because their wife has a job their, ect).
 
I do think that match lists are dangerous and nearly impossible to interpret match success for the reasons explained above.

But I don't think they are "completely useless." If say, you are interested in a certain field and you see that school X routinely sends a couple of students to residency program Z (or tends to keep their own students), this is useful information. There could be a political connection that would potentially help you. Is it some kind of guarantee for your case? Nope.
 
BozoSparky said:
I do think that match lists are dangerous and nearly impossible to interpret match success for the reasons explained above.

But I don't think they are "completely useless." If say, you are interested in a certain field and you see that school X routinely sends a couple of students to residency program Z (or tends to keep their own students), this is useful information. There could be a political connection that would potentially help you. Is it some kind of guarantee for your case? Nope.
Click to expand...

Premeds don't know enough about residencies to make those kinds of decisions. Hell, most don't know enough about medical specialties in general.

Basically premeds are idiots.

j/k
 
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