class rankings at schools with p/f curriculum

[josehernandez94]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So I've heard that many of the schools that offer strictly pass/fail grades for the first two years often still have internal class rankings based on exam scores. These rankings are then included in the Dean's Letter. Thus, even though the transcript reads pass or fail, there is still a rank associated for each student within each course. I was wondering if anybody knows a. if this is true, and b. at which schools this occurs? Specifically, I'm curious about Rochester, but, in general, it would be interesting to know at what schools this is policy is practiced.

Thanks for any insight/info!

 

[TRUE]

I've heard of that at some schools, but I'm not sure if that's truth or rumor. At Sinai, they told us that the first two years are P/F and that your AOA status is determined by the 3rd and 4th years.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by facted
I've heard of that at some schools, but I'm not sure if that's truth or rumor. At Sinai, they told us that the first two years are P/F and that your AOA status is determined by the 3rd and 4th years.

At sinai they told us the students are ranked internally from 1-120, and these along with your 3/4th year grades are part of your dean report.

 

[jlee9531]

i think there is a certain deadline for all schools that p/f to have an internal ranking system because it would allow residency directors to have more information about their applicants.

my friend told at creighton told me about this...lemme see if i can find it...

"I think I can add some insight about pass/fail. I go to Creighton and the Dean of student affairs told us that even though we are H/P/F, our grades and ranks are still recorded for all classes (even for classes that are just pass/fail with no honors). This is because the AAMC has adopted a policy that requires by 2006 that all residency letters must include in them pie charts or graphs that indicate where you placed in every class and then a system where they tell the residency director if you are "highly recommended", "recommended" or "not recommended." He said it kinda sucked cause he thought it would hurt the noncompetitive atmosphere in med school but the AAMC will require that all medical schools do it (because residency directors have been clamoring for it). So even if your school is just pass/fail, there is still some type of internal ranking that exists regardless. "

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by jlee9531
i think there is a certain deadline for all schools that p/f to have an internal ranking system because it would allow residency directors to have more information about their applicants.

That's totally wrong. Schools don't have to report grades until the students apply for residency, so they can formulate the grades whenever they want.


As for the OP's question, almost every school that is pass/fail does have some sort of method for ranking their students. Almost every school also is very secrative about it to their students. I lived with MS VI UCLA students, and what you described is exactly what happens there. They are P/F and only during third year do they find out that the school kept scores to find out who the top of the class is. I told my friends who were MS II's, and the vheminantly denied it. They then went to the dean and flat out asked him, and after initially avoiding the question, he did admit it to be true.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

if all schools keep an internal ranking of your preclinical years but reveal your placement when you're applying for residency, how do residency directors get an accurate assessment of where you actually place if your medical school "assured" all its students that the classes are unranked pass/fail? In case you got lost, a lot of medical students at pass/fail schools do just enough to pass because we've been assured that our preclinical grades do not matter. As a result, our exam scores during the first two years don't represent actual competence.

 

[robotdancing]

cwru claims not to rank at all (at least during the p/f pre-clinical years)

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Jalby
That's totally wrong. Schools don't have to report grades until the students apply for residency, so they can formulate the grades whenever they want.

the deadline i was referring to was the year 2006.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by jlee9531
the deadline i was referring to was the year 2006.

Ohhh. I had never heard about this. I wouldn't believe it. Most schools that are P/F would fight like hell to be sure they don'thave to do that.

 

[Xega]

Yeah what about a place like Yale with anonymous testing? How would that work with reporting class rank?