Cleveland Clinic vs Baylor Houston IM residency

[acpg81]

Which do you think offers a better IM residency training between, between cleveland clinic and baylor houston?

which has a better reputation? thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dragonfly99]

They are both solid...I'm not sure anyone will be able to answer that question.
It may depend on what your ultimate career goal is, and where you want to practice.

If you want to practice in Texas, Baylor might make it easier to make connections, and/or get a fellowship in Texas. Cleveland Clinic might have similar advantages for Ohio. Baylor did lose affiliation with one of their main teaching hospitals in recent years, so that may be an issue...you'd likely be spending a lot of time at the VA and Ben Taub, so there might be a lot of social issues with patients. However, Baylor does have a long tradition of academic excellence. Cleveland Clinic has a big reputation nationally and internationally among patients, who might be impressed to see the place on your resume. I do hear that it is more of a fellow-drive and attending-driven place, and might have a little more of a private practice/private hospital feel, vs. some of the more traditional academic IM residencies like Baylor. That could be a plus or a minus, depending on your personal preferences and your personality.

You might also look at the size of the IM residency as a factor. I'm not sure if Cleveland Clinic is a really huge IM residency...if it is, that might be cool if you thrive on that but not so cool if you like belonging to a smaller group/residency where you might have more personal contact with attendings.

 

[acpg81]

thanks dragonfly.

looking to get into a cardiology fellowship and was wondering which will give better reputation and training (factoring out program size and location)

ccf is known for its hospital but does its residency training reputation follow?


🙂

 

[tibor75]

thanks dragonfly.

looking to get into a cardiology fellowship and was wondering which will give better reputation and training (factoring out program size and location)

ccf is known for its hospital but does its residency training reputation follow?


🙂

No it doesn't. CCF is nothing special for IM

 

[Zock]

In the past few years, it seems Baylor really does not have much left but it's reputation--which is really diminished to those in the know in Texas. I honestly know nothing about the Cleveland Clinic, but even just in the TMC (in Houston) people are starting to realize Baylor isn't the best program in town. After their Methodist divorce, they only have Ben Taub (county hospital) and the VA. (Which is really sad when you realize that it is located in the largest medical center in the world). They were building a university hospital, but in the past month they've lost funding and all construction has stopped with nothing but a shell of a building and several cranes standing in memorium.

Good luck to you--and if you're thinking Texas, think about UT Houston or UT Southwestern.

 

[tibor75]

In the past few years, it seems Baylor really does not have much left but it's reputation--which is really diminished to those in the know in Texas. I honestly know nothing about the Cleveland Clinic, but even just in the TMC (in Houston) people are starting to realize Baylor isn't the best program in town. After their Methodist divorce, they only have Ben Taub (county hospital) and the VA. (Which is really sad when you realize that it is located in the largest medical center in the world). They were building a university hospital, but in the past month they've lost funding and all construction has stopped with nothing but a shell of a building and several cranes standing in memorium.

Good luck to you--and if you're thinking Texas, think about UT Houston or UT Southwestern.

Is Methodist getting their own residency? I interviewed there for a faculty job s a few years ago and am curious.

 

[dragonfly99]

I am pretty sure that the hospital that split off from Baylor (? is it Methodist or Episcopal) already started their own IM residency. I'm sure somebody from Texas can clarify.

 

[Zock]

Is Methodist getting their own residency? I interviewed there for a faculty job s a few years ago and am curious.

Methodist does have it's own IM residency program now. It started either 2 or 3 years ago. They only rotate in Methodist hospital, and they have no students (but may be getting some in the future from either Cornell NY or Texas A&M). Their program is dominated by a lot of private physicians. It is seen as a "cush" place to train, but not necessarily a good place. It does have the huge cards reputation though, and I remember them saying something like 14/16 cards faculty (my numbers may be slightly off) came to Methodist over Baylor during the split. It'd be great for a prelim year, or if you want to train in a big city for a future in a private community practice. They only have 1/2 a floor of the hospital for medicine residents.
In the TMC, if you go by the amount of training opportunities and different hospitals covered, UT Houston far outshines the other 2 programs. They have access to Memorial Hermann, LBJ, MD Anderson, St. Lukes and Methodist. And in the Baylor/Methodist split many of the faculty defected to UT Houston because it was so stable. For some reason, however, the reputation of UT Houston hasn't caught up to it's amazing training. (Residents at UT Southwestern who were med student at UT Houston have personally told me that the residents at UT Houston work just as hard and are just as good or better than the ones at Southwestern, but they just don't get the respect they deserve). When (not if) the secret of UT Houston gets out I'm sure it will become one of the more desired training programs and medical schools in the country. But for some reason the prestige factor is hard to obtain and apparently hard to lose once you get it.

 

[texdoc]

Methodist has had an IM residency for a few years.

 

[acpg81]

In the past few years, it seems Baylor really does not have much left but it's reputation--which is really diminished to those in the know in Texas. I honestly know nothing about the Cleveland Clinic, but even just in the TMC (in Houston) people are starting to realize Baylor isn't the best program in town. After their Methodist divorce, they only have Ben Taub (county hospital) and the VA. (Which is really sad when you realize that it is located in the largest medical center in the world). They were building a university hospital, but in the past month they've lost funding and all construction has stopped with nothing but a shell of a building and several cranes standing in memorium.

Good luck to you--and if you're thinking Texas, think about UT Houston or UT Southwestern.

Thanks for your reply.

Baylor replaced Methodist with St Luke's as it's primary teaching hospital. So it still has 3 teaching hospitals, in addition to ben taub and VA.

I heard that the baylor hospital will be opening in 2011. Is it really true that they stopped construction recently?

 

[Zock]

Thanks for your reply.

Baylor replaced Methodist with St Luke's as it's primary teaching hospital. So it still has 3 teaching hospitals, in addition to ben taub and VA.

I heard that the baylor hospital will be opening in 2011. Is it really true that they stopped construction recently?

Sorry about forgetting St. Lukes--I realized it after I posted. As far as the construction on their hospital goes...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/health/6342486.html

 

[drfunktacular]

Methodist does have it's own IM residency program now. It started either 2 or 3 years ago. They only rotate in Methodist hospital, and they have no students (but may be getting some in the future from either Cornell NY or Texas A&M). Their program is dominated by a lot of private physicians. It is seen as a "cush" place to train, but not necessarily a good place. It does have the huge cards reputation though, and I remember them saying something like 14/16 cards faculty (my numbers may be slightly off) came to Methodist over Baylor during the split. It'd be great for a prelim year, or if you want to train in a big city for a future in a private community practice. They only have 1/2 a floor of the hospital for medicine residents.
In the TMC, if you go by the amount of training opportunities and different hospitals covered, UT Houston far outshines the other 2 programs. They have access to Memorial Hermann, LBJ, MD Anderson, St. Lukes and Methodist. And in the Baylor/Methodist split many of the faculty defected to UT Houston because it was so stable. For some reason, however, the reputation of UT Houston hasn't caught up to it's amazing training. (Residents at UT Southwestern who were med student at UT Houston have personally told me that the residents at UT Houston work just as hard and are just as good or better than the ones at Southwestern, but they just don't get the respect they deserve). When (not if) the secret of UT Houston gets out I'm sure it will become one of the more desired training programs and medical schools in the country. But for some reason the prestige factor is hard to obtain and apparently hard to lose once you get it.

I interviewed at both of these programs. Methodist would be great if you know 100% that your career plans are limited to private practice general IM. I think they will really be building their program's reputation in the coming years with construction of a new inpatient tower and new research facilities. However, they don't have a long enough track record to make me feel confident that I could land a good fellowship if I decide to go that way. In a few years, they could very well get to that point; but right now it would be a bit of a risk (fellowship-wise) doing your training there IMHO. Not that it couldn't pay off, though, if things really take off fast for their program.

UT Houston has some good things going for it, but multiple faculty at my home school advised me not to go there. Also, you'll notice that you were talking to those ex-UT-H students at UTSW; talk to some UT-H students going into IM and they will tell you that almost none of them want to stay at UT-H for residency. In fact I was told (by someone who would know) that one or two years ago, 4 students at UT-H who were ranked to match by the UT-H IM program ended up having to scramble, so... you do the math. Maybe someone from there could chime in, but my impression has been that it is a sort of crummy place to be an IM resident; really hard work, really old-school ("malignant") attendings, not huge prestige in TMC.

Thanks for your reply.

Baylor replaced Methodist with St Luke's as it's primary teaching hospital. So it still has 3 teaching hospitals, in addition to ben taub and VA.

I heard that the baylor hospital will be opening in 2011. Is it really true that they stopped construction recently?

"In a statement issued after the board’s March meeting, the trustees said they will delay construction of the hospital’s interior after the exterior is completed in the spring of 2010.

“Baylor College of Medicine is not abandoning the hospital,” Dr. William T. Butler, Baylor’s interim president, said in the statement. “The decision to pause construction is based on external economic factors.”"

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6342486.html

This development is somewhat concerning; that said, if you interview at BCM, the resident's training experiences are really impressive at Ben Taub and VA. Someone on one of these threads has said in the past that residency is the time you should be in the trenches, working in a county hospital type environment with sick patients and high autonomy--BTGH and VA have more than enough of that--and that fellowship is the time to work in a cush private/university hospital with healthy-ish insured patients in a nice setting There are as many or more opportunities for that in the Texas Medical Center than anywhere else after finishing a residency at BCM. And BCM does still have St Luke's anyway.

Also, the TMC is scheduled to double in size by 2012 (from its current status, already the largest medical district in the world), so there will be lots and lots of jobs to be had in coming years for those finishing residency/fellowship at BCM and surrounding institutions; I think on my interview day at BCM they told us that some residents do third-year rotations at Kelsey-Seybold Clinic as job auditions. The Methodist Hospital is also getting close to finishing at 23 story inpatient tower.

 

[acpg81]

I agree that the recent development on the BCM hospital is quite concerning. Is baylor going bankrupt?

I also agree that VA and Ben taub can provide excellent clinical training given the autonomy residents get there. Compared against CCF which only has a private hospital, and from what i heard is fellow-run, im guessing that baylor will give a better residency training.

However, do you guys think that baylor's reputation and residency program will be affected by their current financial crisis?

I've also read that talks are on their way for a Baylor and Rice merger. What do you guys think of this?

 

[drfunktacular]

I agree that the recent development on the BCM hospital is quite concerning. Is baylor going bankrupt?

I also agree that VA and Ben taub can provide excellent clinical training given the autonomy residents get there. Compared against CCF which only has a private hospital, and from what i heard is fellow-run, im guessing that baylor will give a better residency training.

However, do you guys think that baylor's reputation and residency program will be affected by their current financial crisis?

I've also read that talks are on their way for a Baylor and Rice merger. What do you guys think of this?

Discussion of this here: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/index.php?showtopic=18078

 

[acpg81]

thanks. sure is interesting how things are going to work out with the merger.

 

[Zock]

UT Houston has some good things going for it, but multiple faculty at my home school advised me not to go there. Also, you'll notice that you were talking to those ex-UT-H students at UTSW; talk to some UT-H students going into IM and they will tell you that almost none of them want to stay at UT-H for residency. In fact I was told (by someone who would know) that one or two years ago, 4 students at UT-H who were ranked to match by the UT-H IM program ended up having to scramble, so... you do the math. Maybe someone from there could chime in, but my impression has been that it is a sort of crummy place to be an IM resident; really hard work, really old-school ("malignant") attendings, not huge prestige in TMC.

Oh, I've talked to many of the UT-H students going into IM...
This year 4 of the 25 UT-H students going into IM stayed at UT-H (and I was one of the 21 who is leaving.) Admittedly not many students want to stay for IM, but retention is really good in most other departments. 30% of our 4th year class stayed for residency. Overall it's an excellent up and coming institution (and from what I've been told by people affiliated with Baylor, Methodist, and UT-H is that UT-H is the Houston location where they would want their sons/daughters to train and where the best training is happening here and now).

As far as the "malignant" attendings go, they do exist in the medicine department. But the two biggest culprits are aging out/retiring and will likely be out of the picture sooner than later. The program director is a tad nutty. You either love him or you don't. Those 3 people are pretty much why most students at UT-H say they don't want to stay for IM. The residents do work hard there--but that same hard work is why people love Southwestern so much. Why is there a disconnect just because it is a different location? There is a huge depth and breadth of pathology to be seen--residents go to more locations than in any other program in the TMC. This makes the residents at UT-H sharp--I was sorely disappointed at all but 3 interview day morning reports because the residents were not nearly as good at UT-H's residents.

In the end I decided I needed a different style of IM training than Texas (as a State) could offer. However, UT-H was at the very top of my instate rank list--and I probably was one of the people you met on the interview trail badmouthing it. After considering all training options in Texas and stripping the "prestige factor" out of my equations, UT-H really came out as the top IM training program in the state (IMO) despite the fact I rallied so hard against it for so long.

Sorry to rant about it for so long, but I feel like UT-H unrightly gets the shaft on these discussion boards. I wanted to get the word out that there are excellent training programs in Texas besides Southwestern and Baylor. (And perhaps undo some karma I created on the interview trail by taking my general med school frustrations out on my home school). UT-H is a young program on the rise. Look out! 😀

 

[drfunktacular]

Oh, I've talked to many of the UT-H students going into IM...
This year 4 of the 25 UT-H students going into IM stayed at UT-H (and I was one of the 21 who is leaving.) Admittedly not many students want to stay for IM, but retention is really good in most other departments. 30% of our 4th year class stayed for residency. Overall it's an excellent up and coming institution (and from what I've been told by people affiliated with Baylor, Methodist, and UT-H is that UT-H is the Houston location where they would want their sons/daughters to train and where the best training is happening here and now).

As far as the "malignant" attendings go, they do exist in the medicine department. But the two biggest culprits are aging out/retiring and will likely be out of the picture sooner than later. The program director is a tad nutty. You either love him or you don't. Those 3 people are pretty much why most students at UT-H say they don't want to stay for IM. The residents do work hard there--but that same hard work is why people love Southwestern so much. Why is there a disconnect just because it is a different location? There is a huge depth and breadth of pathology to be seen--residents go to more locations than in any other program in the TMC. This makes the residents at UT-H sharp--I was sorely disappointed at all but 3 interview day morning reports because the residents were not nearly as good at UT-H's residents.

In the end I decided I needed a different style of IM training than Texas (as a State) could offer. However, UT-H was at the very top of my instate rank list--and I probably was one of the people you met on the interview trail badmouthing it. After considering all training options in Texas and stripping the "prestige factor" out of my equations, UT-H really came out as the top IM training program in the state (IMO) despite the fact I rallied so hard against it for so long.

Sorry to rant about it for so long, but I feel like UT-H unrightly gets the shaft on these discussion boards. I wanted to get the word out that there are excellent training programs in Texas besides Southwestern and Baylor. (And perhaps undo some karma I created on the interview trail by taking my general med school frustrations out on my home school). UT-H is a young program on the rise. Look out! 😀

No need to apologize for the "rant": I'm glad to hear more of an insider's perspective. All I can say personally is that my hearsay information has weighed against the program, and my personal experience at the interview day didn't click. I'm sure many would thrive there, though.

 

[spumoni620]

Oh, I've talked to many of the UT-H students going into IM...
This year 4 of the 25 UT-H students going into IM stayed at UT-H (and I was one of the 21 who is leaving.) Admittedly not many students want to stay for IM, but retention is really good in most other departments. 30% of our 4th year class stayed for residency. Overall it's an excellent up and coming institution (and from what I've been told by people affiliated with Baylor, Methodist, and UT-H is that UT-H is the Houston location where they would want their sons/daughters to train and where the best training is happening here and now).

As far as the "malignant" attendings go, they do exist in the medicine department. But the two biggest culprits are aging out/retiring and will likely be out of the picture sooner than later. The program director is a tad nutty. You either love him or you don't. Those 3 people are pretty much why most students at UT-H say they don't want to stay for IM. The residents do work hard there--but that same hard work is why people love Southwestern so much. Why is there a disconnect just because it is a different location? There is a huge depth and breadth of pathology to be seen--residents go to more locations than in any other program in the TMC. This makes the residents at UT-H sharp--I was sorely disappointed at all but 3 interview day morning reports because the residents were not nearly as good at UT-H's residents.

In the end I decided I needed a different style of IM training than Texas (as a State) could offer. However, UT-H was at the very top of my instate rank list--and I probably was one of the people you met on the interview trail badmouthing it. After considering all training options in Texas and stripping the "prestige factor" out of my equations, UT-H really came out as the top IM training program in the state (IMO) despite the fact I rallied so hard against it for so long.

Sorry to rant about it for so long, but I feel like UT-H unrightly gets the shaft on these discussion boards. I wanted to get the word out that there are excellent training programs in Texas besides Southwestern and Baylor. (And perhaps undo some karma I created on the interview trail by taking my general med school frustrations out on my home school). UT-H is a young program on the rise. Look out! 😀

valuable and interesting perspective. i got the same positive "gut" impression of UT-H as a hidden gem when i interviewed for med school, although Baylor seemed to be carry more of a prestige factor for some reason (not sure if that's true now, been out of TX for several years) You're right, UTSW has the "name", where it would seem the training and opportunities are nearly identical (if not more diverse at UT-H given the multiple rotations at top-class institutions).