Clinical Experience????

[kimicurtis]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey,

I am a Junior that will be applying to medical school this coming Spring. I have two research experiences. The one I am working on now is a big project; by the end of my undergraduate career I will end up having spent over two years in that lab, I will have written an honors thesis and I will have a publication or two.

One of my concerns for my med school application is the fact that I am lacking in clinical experience. I have 40 hours of shadowing at a hospital. I know I need more, and will definitely work on this over the Christmas break, and possibly, the following summer.

What I need to know is: what is the general amount of clinical experience that is acceptable for application at most med schools (especially top-tier)? Thanks.

 

[woo]

I was in the same situation.

I started doing undergraduate research my sophomore year and was involved with a project that lasted 2+ years (animal study).

My clinical experiences included:

~10 hours shadowing a geneticist/developmental peds doctor
4 months of 8 hours a week shadowing in a ER
1 semester in a pre-health volunteer club (volunteered about ~25 hours total in clinical environments)
Full-time job as a medical assistant in a private internal medicine practice for about 4 months (currently)

And thats it really. I played my strengths and also had many other activities (TA, jobs, RESEARCH, sports, social) during my college career.

I've just been accepted this cycle by my state school, and am still waiting on others!

Although, I didnt really apply to any "top tier" schools...

 

[gettheleadout]

The average applicant has about a year of clinical experience through either volunteering, employment, or a combination of the two or one of the two plus shadowing. Catalystik can be more explicit on this, but this is what I recall her saying.

 

[kimicurtis]

I was in the same situation.

I started doing undergraduate research my sophomore year and was involved with a project that lasted 2+ years (animal study).

My clinical experiences included:

~10 hours shadowing a geneticist/developmental peds doctor
4 months of 8 hours a week shadowing in a ER
1 semester in a pre-health volunteer club (volunteered about ~25 hours total in clinical environments)
Full-time job as a medical assistant in a private internal medicine practice for about 4 months (currently)

And thats it really. I played my strengths and also had many other activities (TA, jobs, RESEARCH, sports, social) during my college career.

I've just been accepted this cycle by my state school, and am still waiting on others!

Although, I didnt really apply to any "top tier" schools...

I believe that this is very good clinical experience. I don/t think you have anything to worry about in that department. Good luck!

 

[kimicurtis]

The average applicant has about a year of clinical experience through either volunteering, employment, or a combination of the two or one of the two plus shadowing. Catalystik can be more explicit on this, but this is what I recall her saying.

What a whole year?! What about students that have to work throughout the semester to meet their financial obligations, also I have spent countless hours doing research (both volunteer and paid) and am highly involved in campus life (with leadership positions).

Doing all this, along with classes made it hard for me to fit a much clinical experience in.

 

[Anesthetic]

Correct me if I am wrong, but shadowing and clinical experience are two different things. Shadowing is observing a doctor and thinking "wow I would love to help that doctor with that patient" while clinical experience is holding the patients arm while the doctor puts a cast on them. I remember someone saying if you can smell the patients it clinical

 

[gettheleadout]

What a whole year?! What about students that have to work throughout the semester to meet their financial obligations, also I have spent countless hours doing research (both volunteer and paid) and am highly involved in campus life (with leadership positions).

Doing all this, along with classes made it hard for me to fit a much clinical experience in.

You could have participated in a clinical experience in place of one of those, so it's obviously possible. This is not to say your experiences are inferior to clinical involvement, however.

Correct me if I am wrong, but shadowing and clinical experience are two different things. Shadowing is observing a doctor and thinking "wow I would love to help that doctor with that patient" while clinical experience is holding the patients arm while the doctor puts a cast on them. I remember someone saying if you can smell the patients it clinical

To some extent this depends on who is reading your application, and some schools will be content with shadowing only while others like to see either clinical employment or volunteering and sometimes one over the other. With this as well Catalystik can comment on this more constructively than I.

 

[kimicurtis]

Correct me if I am wrong, but shadowing and clinical experience are two different things. Shadowing is observing a doctor and thinking "wow I would love to help that doctor with that patient" while clinical experience is holding the patients arm while the doctor puts a cast on them. I remember someone saying if you can smell the patients it clinical

Well, I would say that it could be difficult making the delineation between clinical experience or shadowing from what you said. When I shadowed the family practice team, I had a great experience; they really involved me on the process that goes into diagnosing and treating the patient. I got to help out on small procedures, carry things to the lab, comfort the patients, I even was asked to do a presentation on Hb1 Diabetes. So, I suppose this was more of a clinical experience than just shadowing.

 

[sector9]

Well, I would say that it could be difficult making the delineation between clinical experience or shadowing from what you said. When I shadowed the family practice team, I had a great experience; they really involved me on the process that goes into diagnosing and treating the patient. I got to help out on small procedures, carry things to the lab, comfort the patients, I even was asked to do a presentation on Hb1 Diabetes. So, I suppose this was more of a clinical experience than just shadowing.

The average applicants has 50 hours of shadowing and 1 1/2 year of clinical volunteering with a weekly commitment (this information is from Catalystik). Despite you having 40 hours of somewhat more "advanced" shadowing than the normal premed, you are nowhere close to having the average amount of clinical exposure (I'm using the term clinical exposure to mean any time spent in a clinic/hospital setting, which may include shadowing, clinical volunteering, clinical employment, and clinical research. I personally dislike the phrase clinical experience because I'm also unclear about what is meant. I think clinical experience typically means time spent in clinical volunteering and/or clinical employment).

Consider taking a gap year, especially if you think you are competitive enough in other areas to be looking at "top tier" schools like you suggest in your OP (at this point, you aren't competitive with clinical exposure, which is possibly the worst area to be deficient in). Just working on it over Christmas break isn't going to cut it.

The alternative is to get involved soon and continue the activity(ies) through the application cycle

 

[flodhi1]

Hey,

I am a Junior that will be applying to medical school this coming Spring. I have two research experiences. The one I am working on now is a big project; by the end of my undergraduate career I will end up having spent over two years in that lab, I will have written an honors thesis and I will have a publication or two.

One of my concerns for my med school application is the fact that I am lacking in clinical experience. I have 40 hours of shadowing at a hospital. I know I need more, and will definitely work on this over the Christmas break, and possibly, the following summer.

What I need to know is: what is the general amount of clinical experience that is acceptable for application at most med schools (especially top-tier)? Thanks.

As stated before 1 and half year of clinical experience is the average/norm. Personally I think you should have at least 2 years to be competitive with shadowing and clinical volunteering with a wide variety of physicians starting with Primary care. I truly believe that Primary care can give a person an in depth clinical experience and basic portrait of the responsibility of a physician. There have been tons of students with stellar stats rejected even from "lower to mid-tier" due to lack of clinical experience. You my friend are currently very short in the type of clinical experience that most ADCOM would like to see on an application.

 

[glasshalfMD]

What type of research are you doing? If it's clinical research, go ahead and count it as clinical experience. Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but I applied with only 30 (maybe) hours of shadowing, NO clinical volunteering, but two years full-time work in a clinical research setting - I was just fine. Good luck, OP.

 

[BirdIsTheWord]

The average applicant has about a year of clinical experience through either volunteering, employment, or a combination of the two or one of the two plus shadowing. Catalystik can be more explicit on this, but this is what I recall her saying.

Not to put you or anyone on the spot but, I will have an average of two years of EMT and Free Clinic clinical volunteering when I apply. Is that enough or do I need more?


And catalystik is a woman?!?!?!?!

 

[km17]

Do this:

The alternative is to get involved soon and continue the activity(ies) through the application cycle

This might be necessary, but I wouldn't default to this without trying next cycle:

Consider taking a gap year, especially if you think you are competitive enough in other areas to be looking at "top tier" schools like you suggest in your OP (at this point, you aren't competitive with clinical exposure, which is possibly the worst area to be deficient in). Just working on it over Christmas break isn't going to cut it.

Granted, I'm not in medical school, but my gut reaction says two things:

1) SDN average to be competitive > normal applicant pool average to be competitive

2) "Top tier" programs (with a few notable exceptions) tend to churn out more competitive specialities / research physicians and therefore would be expected to care more about your ability to do those things (demonstrated by substantial UG leadership, research, etc.) as long as you have sufficient clinical experience to demonstrate passion, knowledge of what you're getting yourself into. I would think that bar would vary widely by experience.

That being said, more experience never hurts, and I'll have at least a year of clinical volunteering by the summer...but if you start now, you could have almost a year by interview season. Only do this if you think you would enjoy it...if you're just looking at a "check the box" opportunity, it would probably be pretty obvious on your app.

 

[sector9]

Not to put you or anyone on the spot but, I will have an average of two years of EMT and Free Clinic clinical volunteering when I apply. Is that enough or do I need more?


And catalystik is a woman?!?!?!?!

That sounds like enough, as long as you have shadowing too.

And yes👍

 

[EK601]

It's important that you can show that your clinical experience increased / reconfirmed your interest in medicine. In interviews when you are asked "why do you want to be a doctor?" you need to answer with concrete evidence.

If the evidence consists of ER volunteering 1h a week for 4 months, so be it... that's fine. I have very limited clinical experience but what I had propelled me towards medicine and I have one acceptance so far and a couple more interviews.

 

[kimicurtis]

What type of research are you doing? If it's clinical research, go ahead and count it as clinical experience. Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but I applied with only 30 (maybe) hours of shadowing, NO clinical volunteering, but two years full-time work in a clinical research setting - I was just fine. Good luck, OP.

Wow, this thread is really making me worry. I did a semester of volunteer clinical research. It was on progressive muscle relaxation at a hospital. I had to meet with the participants, administer questionnaires about their family background and personality traits etc. Then, I would take their weight, height and BMI. Then I would attach EKG's to them to collect physiological data and run a computer program that would asses their stress and response to stress (stroop task).

Could this be considered clinical experience? It was very hands on.

My current research program is in neurodevelopment. I do a lot of sectioning of primate brain tissue.

 

[WorldChanger36]

I feel some kind of primary care shadowing is almost mandatory. One of the best experiences I had was with primary care. It helps you rule it in if you like it and rule it out if you don't. I can't see too many adcoms believing a person that states they don't want to do primary care if they have never even shadowed a physician in that area.

 

[kimicurtis]

I feel some kind of primary care shadowing is almost mandatory. One of the best experiences I had was with primary care. It helps you rule it in if you like it and rule it out if you don't. I can't see too many adcoms believing a person that states they don't want to do primary care if they have never even shadowed a physician in that area.

I understand, I also had a great time shadowing in Family Practice.

 

[gettheleadout]

That sounds like enough, as long as you have shadowing too.

And yes👍

Yeah as far as length you're definitely good, Bird. Hopefully you've gotten something meaningful out of it as well (though I'm sure with EMT work you've seen a thing or two.)

 

[glasshalfMD]

Wow, this thread is really making me worry. I did a semester of volunteer clinical research. It was on progressive muscle relaxation at a hospital. I had to meet with the participants, administer questionnaires about their family background and personality traits etc. Then, I would take their weight, height and BMI. Then I would attach EKG's to them to collect physiological data and run a computer program that would asses their stress and response to stress (stroop task).

Could this be considered clinical experience? It was very hands on.

My current research program is in neurodevelopment. I do a lot of sectioning of primate brain tissue.

I would definitely consider the semester of clinical research to be clinical experience. Don't let everyone in this thread worry you, I think you'll be okay.

 

[BirdIsTheWord]

Yeah as far as length you're definitely good, Bird. Hopefully you've gotten something meaningful out of it as well (though I'm sure with EMT work you've seen a thing or two.)

Yeah, I'm sure I'll have a couple of instances to choose from to make a PS from. Should I try to pick up more EC's (I've still got research and leadership to try to fill out) besides those?

Thanks for the advice man

 

[kimicurtis]

I would definitely consider the semester of clinical research to be clinical experience. Don't let everyone in this thread worry you, I think you'll be okay.

Thanks for giving me hope. I will seek more clinical experience, and include this research in my clinical experience.