Clinical Neuropsychology Advice Needed

[Zaiver]

Hello,

I am currently a Senior undergraduate student with a focus on clinical psychology at the University of Washington. After taking some neural focused psychology courses, I've been thinking about switching to Clinical Neuropsychology as a possible future track.

I'm not quite clear, however, on what I should be doing right now to stay on that particular course. Should my focus right now be primarily on clinical psychology or should I look into more behavioral neuroscience classes? What kind of classes should I be taking (i.e. cognitive psychology classes, neuroscience classes, both)?

I also have some concerns research wise. I joined the Honor's program earlier last year and I've been working in a clinical lab that is almost completely unrelated to neuropsychology. Even though I'll be a co-author for two research papers later on, I was wondering whether or not my particular research experience would go against me when I later apply to a grad school or when I later apply to work with a neuropsychology professor.

Best,

KennyK

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[Psychology 76]

Hello,

I am currently a Senior undergraduate student with a focus on clinical psychology at the University of Washington. After taking some neural focused psychology courses, I've been thinking about switching to Clinical Neuropsychology as a possible future track.

I'm not quite clear, however, on what I should be doing right now to stay on that particular course. Should my focus right now be primarily on clinical psychology or should I look into more behavioral neuroscience classes? What kind of classes should I be taking (i.e. cognitive psychology classes, neuroscience classes, both)?

I also have some concerns research wise. I joined the Honor's program earlier last year and I've been working in a clinical lab that is almost completely unrelated to neuropsychology. Even though I'll be a co-author for two research papers later on, I was wondering whether or not my particular research experience would go against me when I later apply to a grad school or when I later apply to work with a neuropsychology professor.

Best,

KennyK

All the classes you mentioned are a good bet for clinical neuropsych. It doesn't really matter your focused on clinical because the main route to becoming a neuropsychologist is to get the clinical Phd anyway and then do the 2 year neuropsych post doc. 🙂

 

[Zaiver]

Hello Psychology 76,

But shouldn't I be in a neuropsychology research lab during grad school? Does it matter what kind of research I do?

 

[Psychology 76]

Hello Psychology 76,

But shouldn't I be in a neuropsychology research lab during grad school? Does it matter what kind of research I do?

I've asked this same question and appears that it is not crucial to be involved in any sort of neuropsychology track in grad school. I'm assuming this can carry over to your lab as well because I've read about some people were doing purely clinical research but go a post doc offer in neuro psych anyway. I'm kind of in the same boat so I'm really hoping you don't have to be super specialized all the way until your a clinical neuropsychologist. I'm assuming that's your ultimate goal? If it is then I think you're in good shape and making sure will only help you. But all I am is some random person on the internet so don't take my word as certain 😛

 

[Zaiver]

All the same, thank you for the advice.

I was just thinking that, if I decided not to do actual clinical work in neuropsychology, I could always fall back on doing research in clinical neuropsychology.

 

[Psychology 76]

All the same, thank you for the advice.

I was just thinking that, if I decided not to do actual clinical work in neuropsychology, I could always fall back on doing research in clinical neuropsychology.

Exactly. I have an internship doing clinical neuropsych work and research. I find both awesome so I'm happy I'll have the opportunity to do both or one or the other.

Best of luck!

 

[erg923]

I've asked this same question and appears that it is not crucial to be involved in any sort of neuropsychology track in grad school.

I would have to disagree with this. Can it be done that way? Yes, but it makes things alot harder now days. Things have really changed over the past decade in regards to clinical neuro training.

Houston conference guidlines, which took effect in 2004, are now beggining to guide the profession. Gone are the days when you could just do a neuro rotation during your clincial training and fall into neuropsych as a career. The competition for neuro focused predoc internships and the all important post-doc is stiffer now, and there is so much more to learn now than there was 20, even 10 years ago. It is much better if you can find a clinical psychology doctoral program that offeres the appopriate classes and practicum experiences that meet the HC guidlines. This will make getting a predoc intership that is neuro focused much easier. And with the competitive nature of post-docs (because they are so few compared to the number seeking them) they have the option of being picky. And they are! You are required to have taken advanced courses in neuronanatomy and the like now days if you want to be competitive for these post-docs, or even to eligible for the diplomate exam following post-doc. You are gonna have to take the classes somehwere at sometime, so it might as well be in grad school. I think a program with a formal track that offers specifc advanced courses in functional neuroanatomy, behavioral neurology, assessment, etc. and that has "real" clinical neuropsychologists on faculty and in your practicums is optimal, and will make the rest of your journey and "hoop jumping" much easier.

 

[Zaiver]

So what kind of classes should I be taking as an undergaduate?

There are some cognitive psychology classes on human memories. There are classes on sensory and perception (would this be relevant?). There are some cognitive neuroscience classes. No specific neuropsychology classes, however.

 

[erg923]

Yes, I would focus on the cognitive classes. Including the sensory stuff. However, classes will not get you into a grad program. Although they might provide you with a good background for yourself personally, they are not gonna get you into a clinical program and no undergrad classes are gonna really "impress" faculty.

I would worry alot more about the quality of your research experience (whetever it is, it doesn't have to be in neuro, but that wouldnt hurt either), your GRE score, and what your rec letters can say about your potential for graduate study and research. One thing at a time. You dont have to know all the neuro and cognitive stuff going in grad school. They will teach you all that, that is why they are there.

 

[Zaiver]

Thank you for the responses. They are very informative.

In terms of my current work: I am working in alcohol lab and am in the progress of co-authoring two research papers. I have also been working part time in a rehab hospital for the past three years. Would these experiences help me in getting into a grad school oriented towards neuropsychology?

 

[erg923]

The research will standout. Awesome. The rehab hospital is good, but really only "rounds out" the picture in an admission committees mind. By itself, it doesnt mean much. Its good exposure for you on a personal level though. Im sure its given you a good real world feel for the profession and roles the different providers play in that environment.

 

[Psychology 76]

I would have to disagree with this. Can it be done that way? Yes, but it makes things alot harder now days. Things have really changed over the past decade in regards to clinical neuro training.

Houston conference guidlines, which took effect in 2004, are now beggining to guide the profession. Gone are the days when you could just do a neuro rotation during your clincial training and fall into neuropsych as a career. The competition for neuro focused predoc internships and the all important post-doc is stiffer now, and there is so much more to learn now than there was 20, even 10 years ago. It is much better if you can find a clinical psychology doctoral program that offeres the appopriate classes and practicum experiences that meet the HC guidlines. This will make getting a predoc intership that is neuro focused much easier. And with the competitive nature of post-docs (because they are so few compared to the number seeking them) they have the option of being picky. And they are! You are required to have taken advanced courses in neuronanatomy and the like now days if you want to be competitive for these post-docs, or even to eligible for the diplomate exam following post-doc. You are gonna have to take the classes somehwere at sometime, so it might as well be in grad school. I think a program with a formal track that offers specifc advanced courses in functional neuroanatomy, behavioral neurology, assessment, etc. and that has "real" clinical neuropsychologists on faculty and in your practicums is optimal, and will make the rest of your journey and "hoop jumping" much easier.

I have heard this before and I do agree and see the point. However, where i work two new post docs got the position without being in any sort of track. They just took neuro classes in grad school. Does it really matter if you take a specified track as long you have all the same or similar classes?

 

[erg923]

I have heard this before and I do agree and see the point. However, where i work two new post docs got the position without being in any sort of track. They just took neuro classes in grad school. Does it really matter if you take a specified track as long you have all the same or similar classes?

Well what do you mean by "track?" When I say track, I mean a concentration, meaning you taking specific classes beyond the core curriculum that have specifically have to do with behavioral neurology, fucntional neuroanatomy, and neoropsychlogical assessment methods. Ideally you would have true practicing neuropsychologists on faculty and available at your practicums. Not every program can offer this, especially the advanced classses in neuroanatomy...and not every psychology department have post-doctorally trained neuropsychologists on faculty.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

"Tracks" and/or "Concentrations" should come secondary to finding a solid neuropsychologist to work with. It can make a difference down the road where and with whom you train, so make sure to find a well respected program and mentor.

 

[Ollie123]

Not in neuro, but the approach I took when looking at schools is "Does it have what I need it to have". I'd wager there are plenty of schools with great neuro faculty that offer the requisite neuro courses that haven't decided to slap a label on it and call it a "track". Sometimes tracks are legitimate, sometimes I feel like its just an advertising scheme to draw in students by creating the illusion of "Wow, I can do anything if I go here! They have everything!". A couple adjuncts brought in to teach specific courses does not make a school a good choice for that specialization. Classes in general fall under the umbrella of "Necessary, but not sufficient" for just about everything. Part of grad school is breaking out of the undergrad mindset of classes being most important. Classes are supposed to be a starting point. I don't care how intense the class is, it doesn't make you qualified to do anything, let alone an "expert" in it. All it does is lay a foundation for you to build from.

Find a school with the required neuro courses and do well in them. Make sure you have access to an advisor/mentor who is a respected neuropsychologist, have access to at least 1 good practicum site where you can get neuro experience, and have opportunities for neuropsych research. I suspect that will serve you much better than looking for schools that happen to offer the required neuro courses and labeled them a "track".

 

[Zaiver]

What if I have not taken any biology classes (outside of psychology)? Would that hamper my chances?

And I have another question. Would there be a difference between choosing a neuropsychology track within a clinical psychology or a counseling psychology grad program?

 

[Neuro-Dr]

We seem to go through this question every month or so and there are several threads on this issue. I'll weigh in as someone whose boarded in clinical neuropsychology so take that how you will. all the points you are hearing are correct to a degree. we really have never made any formal position on training at the undergrad level and this won't ever happen. Most boards really don't suggest specialization until fellowship and specialties within graduate school are a bit frowned on by APA. Still, as mentioned, the HCG and the more recent summit on training in NP has been attempting to push towards training at the graduate level. I'm not the biggest fam of the guild model of just finding a seasoned NP to train with and prefer the more organized training sequence. I'm not sure what programs have "tracks" that are really just advertising but perhaps someone could post some examples. I think high GPA and good GREs are the benchmark by which you will be measured. You should consider a clinical program with core faculty in NP who teach the foundation courses in NP and have good placement rates for NP practica and internship. Just my thoughts...

 

[erg923]

NeuroDr:

I will be applying for intesnship in the fall, two questions.

1.) How critical is it to get a internship that offers 50% neuropsych, versus a internship that offers some neurospych, but is otherwise more traditional clinical (therapy, groups, psychiatric assessment, etc) if I want to apply to post-docs in npych? It seems that getting one with 50% neuro is extra tough since many sites have only have a handful of openings to begin with, and only 1 or 2 of those are the neuro-foused slots. Seems like a competition within a competition in other words. Even if my ultimate goal is npsych, would it still be ok to take a more general internship, as loing as its APA approved? Or would this really hurt my competitivness and chances for post-doc?

2.) What are internship admissions committees (especially the neuropsych focused internships) really looking for, clinically speaking? Diversity of experiences, OR, lots and lots of neuro assessment experience? Grossly speaking, my pracs have consited of: 1 year of psychotherapy at a community clinic, 2 years of npsych (at 2 different places), and a research job/prac doing mostly psychiatric ratings and SCIDs with depressed and psychotic subjects. I feel like a have tons of neuro and assesment, but relatively little therapy. How much pure psychotherapy should I have by the time i apply for internship? As of now,(4 months before I apply) I only have about 110 hours of face to face psychotherapy, with some of that being cog-rehab. Is this enough, or will I be frowned upon since this isnt alot really?

 

[Neuro-Dr]

Honestly, it seems to be pretty idiosynchratic. I think that the general agreement is that any APA internship meets the general requirements. however, your faculty or supervisors are in a better position to advise you because they know your training, where you are applying and have a better knowledge of the specific supervisors where you are applying. I feel like it is becoming a "who you know" kind of field, which could work for or against you.

I'm stillof the opinion that the biggest weakness for all NP students is neuroanatomy/neuropathology followed by knowledge of the instruments the site uses. So, that plays a role in who interviews you.
Good luck.