Clinical Postdoc Resources and Info

[Crunchyfrog]

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Hi all,

First post here, but I have been getting great info from SDN for years. Great community and good discussions.

I was wondering what resources and advice others have for searching and securing a clinical postdoc position. Unlike other phases on this path to becoming a psychologist (e.g. applying to grad schools and internships), there isn't a standardized process or easy way to aggregate all the information and opportunities. I understand the nature of postdocs are different from these other phases, but I am having limited success just searching around with the resources I'm familiar with (APPIC, APA postings, relevant psychology job searches). There's good stuff in those places, but it just feels like there should be more stuff out there (maybe not). Any resources and info are appreciated by me and potentially other readers.

This would be great as a general discussion for all, but I'll share about my individual situation and needs if anyone has information relevant to them. I'm starting an APA accredited clinical internship in August 2011, but it's not in a part of the country that I want to stay in and they don't offer postdoctoral positions anyway. It's a position that deals with mostly inpatient psychiatric patients, but also several inpatient and outpatient medical evaluations and consultations. I am coming from a Clinical Psychology Ph.D. program that is new, so it's not APA accredited yet, but during the Spring of my internship year the doctoral program will have had a site visit from the APA, so I can graduate when I'm done with my internship and have an APA accredited degree (barring something catastrophic or completely unexpected during the APA site visit). I don't have a preference for specialization, other than a preference for adult care, though I am open to specialization. University Counseling Centers and Hospitals/Medical Settings are settings I am drawn to and would like to work in for a career, but I'm open to anything. I also have a strong urging from my wife to find something in Ohio, and ideally Central or Southeast Ohio. I know it's awful to hamstring yourself geographically in these situations, but she has been so miserable, but accommodating, living and working in places she didn't want to be these last several years. She's just ready to get settled close to our families if at all possible and move forward with her career as well (but also understands that it's just 1 more year and we'll do what we have to if necessary). Anyway, that's a bit about me and my situation if you feel like commenting on that specifically.

Sorry for the wall-o-text. Any info is appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[ForensicNeuro]

If you are looking to relocate in Ohio, I would recommend checking out the "Ohio psychological Internship" which is a consortium. There is summit psychological services which is a forensic outpatient for adults and two other joint inpatient and outpatient facilities. They are an APA internship and had a hard time securing interns this year...I would image there would be post-doc opportunities available. I can't promise, but I would check it out. They seemed pretty desperate for bodies (I mean psychologists) when I interviewed there for their internship program. It's in Akron, Ohio.

 

[Crunchyfrog]

If you are looking to relocate in Ohio, I would recommend checking out the "Ohio psychological Internship" which is a consortium. There is summit psychological services which is a forensic outpatient for adults and two other joint inpatient and outpatient facilities. They are an APA internship and had a hard time securing interns this year...I would image there would be post-doc opportunities available. I can't promise, but I would check it out. They seemed pretty desperate for bodies (I mean psychologists) when I interviewed there for their internship program. It's in Akron, Ohio.

Thanks! I actually applied there for internship. Forensic isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I liked that they had good inpatient and assessment experiences so I was looking forward to hearing from them. I thought it would have been a good fit, but I didn't get even an interview there. I think my program not being accredited yet scared a lot of people off, even though I had 1,000+ hours and 15 integrated assessments (not awesome, but good enough for a clinical Ph.D. I would guess). I'll definitely be looking at them or contacting them in the coming year to see if a postdoc is possible.

Just as a question relevant to this discussion for anyone to answer: Is it okay to contact places that you think you would like to work inquiring about postdoc opportunities, even if they don't have something formal posted or set up? Is this pretty common during the postdoc search?

 

[deleted106747]

I can respond more later, but the two things I learned in the process were 1) it comes up a heck of a lot faster than you expect or want it to, so be sure to be asking about those letters of rec EARLY; and 2) In the postdoc process, I felt like interviewers were looking for a reason to want me, vs. during internship where I felt they were looking for a reason to rule me out. It made a big difference. Also, unlike APPIC I got interviews at all but one of the places I applied to. It was nice. I felt wanted and needed, though I still had to fly/drive all over the country.

As for contacting places, I don't see why not. The worst they can say is no. I can't see it harming your chances of work or anything later, but if anyone else feels differently, let me know. I know the DCT here would not be troubled by it, but things may vary.

 

[Crunchyfrog]

I can respond more later, but the two things I learned in the process were 1) it comes up a heck of a lot faster than you expect or want it to, so be sure to be asking about those letters of rec EARLY; and 2) In the postdoc process, I felt like interviewers were looking for a reason to want me, vs. during internship where I felt they were looking for a reason to rule me out. It made a big difference. Also, unlike APPIC I got interviews at all but one of the places I applied to. It was nice. I felt wanted and needed, though I still had to fly/drive all over the country.

As for contacting places, I don't see why not. The worst they can say is no. I can't see it harming your chances of work or anything later, but if anyone else feels differently, let me know. I know the DCT here would not be troubled by it, but things may vary.

Great! Thanks for the info. I'm hoping I'm getting an early enough start, since I'm starting my search this summer before my internship year. I'm going to keep your second point in mind during this process. I think that has been a problem for me in other interviews along this path, and I should definitely focus more on giving sites a reason to want me, instead of trying not to be ruled out. It's awesome that there seems to be a better response rate during this period as well.

I'm glad to hear that inquiring about a postdoc position doesn't seem to be off-limits either. I'd be interested to hear others' opinions or successes or failures with this approach, or really any info on the postdoc topic in general. Thanks again for the response.

 

[ClinicalPsycPhD]

you can always look up community mental health centers in the area. They are often hiring for people at the master's level and that can work out as long as you have a doctoral level supervisor

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm glad to hear that inquiring about a postdoc position doesn't seem to be off-limits either. I'd be interested to hear others' opinions or successes or failures with this approach, or really any info on the postdoc topic in general. Thanks again for the response.

This is often how you have to approach the post-doc application process. I started early by asking current/prior mentors where I should look, and they got me in touch with people they knew. This route didn't always end up with an opportunity, but it helped me start to learn a lot more about the variety of opportunities out there. Those contacts may not have a spot, but they may know someone who does (a psychologist's version of LinkedIn....but before LinkedIn we just called it networking. 😀). I ended up speaking to some great people, and a few I have since been able to catch up with at conferences, etc.

The overwhelming majority of folks I talked to were more than happy to respond to my inquiries. I kept it short and to the point. I'd let them know I was looking for a fellowship for 20XX in ABC, I wanted to know if they were looking to fill a spot, and then I asked if they had any information they could send me and/or if they'd be available for follow-up questions. If I was referred to them by someone else, I included that person's name and my relationship to them. It isn't rocket surgery, but every little bit helps.

Ironically, some of the best advice I received about the fellowship process and early career psychology came from people who had no horse in the race. They gave me a great perspective into what to expect, what questions to ask, what to be on the look out for when I was on an interview, etc. There really are some great people in our field who are willing to go out of their way to help a newbie out.

 

[Crunchyfrog]

you can always look up community mental health centers in the area. They are often hiring for people at the master's level and that can work out as long as you have a doctoral level supervisor

Thanks! I figured that would be a good place to look, so it's good to hear that from someone else. Even though I have had good experiences in community mental health centers in my training, I'm not sure I see myself there long term. I would gladly do a year there to get my hours for licensing (and I may have to if I'm limiting myself geographically), but I wasn't sure how much that would dictate where my career would go afterwards.

Even though I will do what I need to do to get my license hours, I just wasn't sure how attractive I would look in the job market afterward if I'm applying for jobs in settings like university counseling centers or medical centers, when my training is an inpatient psych/behavioral medicine internship and a community mental health post-doc. I love being a generalist and I love that I can be versatile enough to work in a variety of settings, but I don't want it to hurt me in a job market. Anybody have any insight into how much your internship and post-doc define you? I know there are often many paths to the job you may want, but just wanted to hear other experiences with these issues.

 

[Crunchyfrog]

This is often how you have to approach the post-doc application process. I started early by asking current/prior mentors where I should look, and they got me in touch with people they knew. This route didn't always end up with an opportunity, but it helped me start to learn a lot more about the variety of opportunities out there. Those contacts may not have a spot, but they may know someone who does (a psychologist's version of LinkedIn....but before LinkedIn we just called it networking. 😀). I ended up speaking to some great people, and a few I have since been able to catch up with at conferences, etc.

The overwhelming majority of folks I talked to were more than happy to respond to my inquiries. I kept it short and to the point. I'd let them know I was looking for a fellowship for 20XX in ABC, I wanted to know if they were looking to fill a spot, and then I asked if they had any information they could send me and/or if they'd be available for follow-up questions. If I was referred to them by someone else, I included that person's name and my relationship to them. It isn't rocket surgery, but every little bit helps.

Ironically, some of the best advice I received about the fellowship process and early career psychology came from people who had no horse in the race. They gave me a great perspective into what to expect, what questions to ask, what to be on the look out for when I was on an interview, etc. There really are some great people in our field who are willing to go out of their way to help a newbie out.

Thanks! Great response! Sadly, for an introvert like me, I have realized that much of these post-graduate school activities (internship, postdoc, job) have a lot to do with who you know, and I'm not exactly a social butterfly. Now I curse all that time I spent not talking to anybody at conferences, haha. But I do what I have to do to each step of the way, so this next year I'll be e-mailing and calling like I never have before. I have begun to ask around my program's psych department if anyone has contacts for these sorts of opportunities, and many do, but the two downsides for my personal situation are 1) my geographic preferences, since my program is several states away from where I want to be (Ohio) and none of my professors have contacts in that area, and 2) our PhD program is new so we have no places where there are previous graduates or a reputation to build on, and the contacts that some of my supervisors/professors have may be a bit wary to take someone like me on when they could just as easily find someone with guaranteed accreditation on their degree, or at least they were during the internship process (and actually my degree will be APA accredited at the end of my internship when I graduate, but we just have to wait for the APA committee on accreditation site visit this next year, so during my postdoc search the best I can do is explain my situation but I can't guarantee the accreditation even though it's 99.9% a done deal).

I think your guidance here is great though. Even if my supervisors/advisors have contacts in places I may not be completely interested in (who knows though, maybe I will be), it would be a good idea just to make those e-mails and calls in order to get a better idea of what to expect and what they are looking for, or it may even lead to another contact. Looks like I'll be burning up e-mail inboxes the next few months. But it does sound like it'll be worth it, if for no other reason than to make a few more contacts and learn more about what people are looking for in postdocs. Thanks for the awesome response.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think your guidance here is great though. Even if my supervisors/advisors have contacts in places I may not be completely interested in (who knows though, maybe I will be), it would be a good idea just to make those e-mails and calls in order to get a better idea of what to expect and what they are looking for, or it may even lead to another contact. Looks like I'll be burning up e-mail inboxes the next few months. But it does sound like it'll be worth it, if for no other reason than to make a few more contacts and learn more about what people are looking for in postdocs. Thanks for the awesome response.

Ohio seems to have some pretty good options between Ohio State, the Cleveland Clinic, Dayton, and Cincy. There are a few border cities like Lexington, KY, Fort Wayne, IN, Pittsburgh, PA that always have options, but they are +/- 50mi from the OH border. You may also want to join the Ohio Psych Assoc. and drop them a line to see if anyone has contacts. The acred. thing may be tricky, hopefully others have suggestions as to best handle it. Maybe a letter from your program's DCT explaining where they are in the process?

 

[Crunchyfrog]

Ohio seems to have some pretty good options between Ohio State, the Cleveland Clinic, Dayton, and Cincy. There are a few border cities like Lexington, KY, Fort Wayne, IN, Pittsburgh, PA that always have options, but they are +/- 50mi from the OH border. You may also want to join the Ohio Psych Assoc. and drop them a line to see if anyone has contacts. The acred. thing may be tricky, hopefully others have suggestions as to best handle it. Maybe a letter from your program's DCT explaining where they are in the process?

I agree. Even though I am limiting myself a bit geographically, I do feel like Ohio is in a great location with lots of opportunities for psychologists, so that's fortunate. I just know I would be more likely to get something if I was more willing to go anywhere, especially with my degree accreditation status.

Our DCT has been great about trying to support those of us who are the first out the door in this internship process. She has written great letters of support when needed and gone out of her way to contact people to ease their minds about the accreditation thing. Even with that support though, I know a lot of sites in the internship process were still wary about considering us, and when it came down to choosing interns I think most training directors would lean towards a student from an established and accredited program (a friend of mine getting her clinical PhD at another university that's not even a real big name psychology university got 12 internship interviews with fewer clinical hours and fewer assessments than me, and I only got 4 interviews when applying only to APPIC sites that said they would accept non-accredited students, and I'm sure my essays and other materials weren't that bad). I fear for the same sort of experience in the postdoc and job search, so I'm trying to set myself up for success by starting early and getting this information and a game plan together here (which by the way has been awesome, thank you SDN) and other places. Anyway, I'm sure my DCT will be a great advocate for me in this process, but from my internship experience I'm just not sure how far that will go.

Anyway, it certainly could be worse and I am thankful for the opportunities in Ohio and the support from my program. I have contacted the Ohio Psychological Association regarding questions on licensing requirements and the like so I could definitely make contact again about postdoc opportunities. They were very friendly and helpful before. I just wish there was a big book or a big database of opportunities, like there were for the grad school and internship processes, haha.