Club spots under "hobbies" or "intercollegiate athletics"?

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It's seems that unless a sport is a D1 NCAA sport, it's not worth mentioning as a sport but rather a hobby.
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No. That's not it at all. A "club sport" is an extra curricular or a hobby. An intercollegiate sport is playing varsity level for a college. Like the wise Goro has said, most adcoms will think that D1-3 is a vitamin. I've had friends who played club sports and it's nowhere even close to the time commitment a varsity level collegiate sport is.

I played D3 basketball. I had a friend who played D1. The time commitment and expectations were roughly about the same. Except the D3 athletes were held to a higher academic standard than the D1 athletes were, and we relied on academic, not athletic, scholarships. Not sure where you're getting the "unless it's D1 it doesn't count" from.
 
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What about a regional/national level club team that practices 3-5 times a week for several hours and spends 4+ tournaments away from home every semester? That might not be max varsity level but that definitely seems to be pretty time intensive. Many club sports are sports that don't have NCAA status so the "club sport" at a university is the highest collegiate level, ex: rugby.
 
efle said:
A traveling club team that plays other college club teams with a national association isn't considered intercollegiate?
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Nope. They are not regulated by any national organization (regardless if they have a national championship like ultimate frisbee or Quidditch). And the definition is as such: Intercollegiate sport" means a sport played at the collegiate level for which eligibility requirements for participation by a student athlete are established by a national association for the promotion or regulation of collegiate athletics.
This means by the NCAA or NAIA.


RedStar7 said:
What about a regional/national level club team that practices 3-5 times a week for several hours and spends 4+ tournaments away from home every semester? That might not be max varsity level but that definitely seems to be pretty time intensive. Many club sports are sports that don't have NCAA status so the "club sport" at a university is the highest collegiate level, ex: rugby.
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Still an extra curricular. We spent ~4 hours 6 days a week from the beginning of August to the end of February. Once the season "officially" started we would leave anywhere from 6am-8am on game day and wouldn't get back until midnight or later for games. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what you did wasn't time intensive, but it doesn't qualify as an intercollegiate athletic.
 
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This doesn't really do anything but I just thought it was an interesting piece of data.
 
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I mean, rugby is not NCAA recognized but we had a lot of training / tournaments. Neither is powerlifting. I'd gander in rugby I spent 10 hours a week training and 20+ on Fri-Sun tournaments. I train 10-15 hours a week for powerlifting (not including efforts in dieting, prepping or tournament prep). I wouldn't call either a "hobby" at the level I compete at. Is the time commitment less than some NCAA sports? Sure, but it doesn't mean all of that mandated time into NCAA training is always productive, either.
 
breezy16 said:
I mean, rugby is not NCAA recognized but we had a lot of training / tournaments. Neither is powerlifting. I'd gander in rugby I spent 10 hours a week training and 20+ on Fri-Sun tournaments. I train 10-15 hours a week for powerlifting (not including efforts in dieting, prepping or tournament prep). I wouldn't call either a "hobby" at the level I compete at. Is the time commitment less than some NCAA sports? Sure, but it doesn't mean all of that mandated time into NCAA training is always productive, either.
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Not taking away from what you've done at all. But I've dabbled in bodybuilding and dedicated a lot of time to it my senior year of college (an injury kept me from playing basketball). But I wouldn't call it an intercollegiate sport. Not would I call the 5ks I ran and placed in an intercollegiate sport. Because it's not regulated by the NCAA or NAIA. I had a friend who played women's rugby and was a national champ and she would still say it's a club team and even though she competed against other teams, it wasn't an intercollegiate sport. (N=1, but still)

But when it comes down to it, adcoms most likely won't know the difference between a club and varsity sport. But if you do get one who knows the difference and you've placed it as such under the intercollegiate sport category, they might question you. So in the end it's up to you what to do. I gave the actual definition of what an "intercollegiate sport" is. Take what you will from it.
 
TallPreMed said:
Not taking away from what you've done at all. But I've dabbled in bodybuilding and dedicated a lot of time to it my senior year of college (an injury kept me from playing basketball). But I wouldn't call it an intercollegiate sport. Not would I call the 5ks I ran and placed in an intercollegiate sport. Because it's not regulated by the NCAA or NAIA. I had a friend who played women's rugby and was a national champ and she would still say it's a club team and even though she competed against other teams, it wasn't an intercollegiate sport. (N=1, but still)

But when it comes down to it, adcoms most likely won't know the difference between a club and varsity sport. But if you do get one who knows the difference and you've placed it as such under the intercollegiate sport category, they might question you. So in the end it's up to you what to do. I gave the actual definition of what an "intercollegiate sport" is. Take what you will from it.
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Absolutely agree on most fronts. It's unfortunate the line is so black and white is mainly what I was alluding to. I'm a nationally ranked lifter (top 15-25 based on weight class) and have qualified to represent the US nationally, so that's where I argue with powerlifting mainly. Rugby I could say club sport without much of a fight. What irks me is being lumped in with those who play IM-league softball / basketball / soccer / whatever else.
 
TallPreMed said:
a sport played at the collegiate level for which eligibility requirements for participation by a student athlete are established by a national association for the promotion or regulation of collegiate athletics.
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It could also mean something like the CWPA, no? If you're traveling interstate to compete against other colleges under a national association like that, seems to qualify as inter-college athletics
 
TallPreMed said:
No. That's not it at all. A "club sport" is an extra curricular or a hobby. An intercollegiate sport is playing varsity level for a college. Like the wise Goro has said, most adcoms will think that D1-3 is a vitamin. I've had friends who played club sports and it's nowhere even close to the time commitment a varsity level collegiate sport is.

I played D3 basketball. I had a friend who played D1. The time commitment and expectations were roughly about the same. Except the D3 athletes were held to a higher academic standard than the D1 athletes were, and we relied on academic, not athletic, scholarships. Not sure where you're getting the "unless it's D1 it doesn't count" from.
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Preach! Played D3 lacrosse. In season, between practices/lifting/film/whathaveyou, classes, studying, and research I think I skipped breathing a couple days due to lack of time.
 
efle said:
It could also mean something like the CWPA, no? If you're traveling interstate to compete against other colleges under a national association like that, seems to qualify as inter-college athletics
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I suppose so but the picture in my head I was getting from OP is they're trying to compare a club Quidditch team to an actual varsity sport and that got my feathers ruffled lol. Not sure what sport they are meaning but the main difference between club and varsity athletics are the funding and governing bodies (coaching etc) which are all student run and the levels of time commitment/requirement vary across the board... From my own experience and colleagues I know who played varsity athletics in college from D1 to D3 and NAIA, the time commitment and overall regulations are a bit more consistent.
 
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JustAPhD said:
Preach! Played D3 lacrosse. In season, between practices/lifting/film/whathaveyou, classes, studying, and research I think I skipped breathing a couple days for lack of time.
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HAH. yes! Someone who understands! We are a rare commodity, the retired varsity athletes. Did you have study tables? Anyone below a 3.5 GPA was required to go to "study tables" at our Academic Resource Center for ~10 hours a week and if you had <3.0 you had to spend your Sundays in a classroom with the coach for at least three hours doing your work. It was RIDICULOUS.
 
Oh I agree varsity requires a lot more from its athletes than club, but both can fall under "intercollegiate" !
 
TallPreMed said:
HAH. yes! Someone who understands! We are a rare commodity, the retired varsity athletes. Did you have study tables? Anyone below a 3.5 GPA was required to go to "study tables" at our Academic Resource Center for ~10 hours a week and if you had <3.0 you had to spend your Sundays in a classroom with the coach for at least three hours doing your work. It was RIDICULOUS.
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Yup there were mandatory study halls, although I think the threshold was lower for our team. I'm actually not entirely sure what it was but I think it was somewhere between 3.0-3.2.

efle said:
Oh I agree varsity requires a lot more from its athletes than club, but both can fall under "intercollegiate" !
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I agree. All D1/2/3 sports are intercollegiate, but not all intercollegiate sports are D1/2/3. That's what it essentially breaks down to.
 
efle said:
It could also mean something like the CWPA, no? If you're traveling interstate to compete against other colleges under a national association like that, seems to qualify as inter-college athletics
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@efle Love the fact that I'm not the only club polo player on here.
 
I understand that intercollegiate usually refers to NCAA/NAIA because they are strictly regulated, consistent, etc. But can't the argument be made that some club sports are also intercollegiate? I'm not trying to suggest that club sports are anywhere close to varsity level athletics (I have lots of athlete friends and I definitely know they work harder than I do) but technically one could make the argument that some club sports (ultimate frisbee, rugby) which have national organizations, are well established, have conference, regional, national level competition, are intercollegiate.

Anyhow as long as the activity goes on the application and all the important info is included I doubt it really matters at the end of the day. I just hope that med schools don't see club sports as NOT serious or time-intensive because some really are and people work hard for it.
 
@TallPreMed @efle

What in the world are you two talking about?

I quote from @LizzyM

"Who cares? You played against people from other colleges so that's "intercollegiate". You aren't applying for a job on a farm team, you are applying for medical school. What does it matter if it was varsity, junior varsity or club? You played with players as talented as yourself, you trained, practiced, learned teamwork, experienced the agony of defeat and all the rest.

Call it intercollegiate and call it a day"

It's obviously intercollegiate.

/thread

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walloobi said:
@TallPreMed @efle

What in the world are you two talking about?

I quote from @LizzyM

"Who cares? You played against people from other colleges so that's "intercollegiate". You aren't applying for a job on a farm team, you are applying for medical school. What does it matter if it was varsity, junior varsity or club? You played with players as talented as yourself, you trained, practiced, learned teamwork, experienced the agony of defeat and all the rest.

Call it intercollegiate and call it a day"

It's obviously intercollegiate.

/endthread

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using SDN mobile
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All due respect to LizzyM, but my guess is that people familiar with different levels of college sports will view things differently. It's worthwhile thinking about how seriously your playing would be treated - listing your time with an intramural Frisbee team as one of the high importance activities is very different than time with a varsity NCAA sport.

Obviously like Goro likes to say, many in admissions think D1 / D3 are vitamins and they won't differentiate at all
 
efle said:
All due respect to LizzyM, but my guess is that people familiar with different levels of college sports will view things differently. It's worthwhile thinking about how seriously your playing would be treated - listing your time with an intramural Frisbee team as one of the high importance activities is very different than time with a varsity NCAA sport.

Obviously like Goro likes to say, many in admissions think D1 / D3 are vitamins and they won't differentiate at all
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Intramural isn't intercollegiate.

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And some sports aren't NCAA regulated but nevertheless require 30 hrs/week year-round commitment (like men's rowing)
 
snooper said:
And some sports aren't NCAA regulated but nevertheless require 30 hrs/week year-round commitment (like men's rowing)
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Didn't believe you at first, looked it up and you're right! Can't believe women's crew is D1/2/3 while men's is not.
 
That way they don't have to follow NCAA rules with respect to recruiting, training, number of scholarships, etc.
 
snooper said:
That way they don't have to follow NCAA rules with respect to recruiting, training, number of scholarships, etc.
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The fact that women's crew is a NCAA sport makes me think it's more of a Title IX thing.
 
walloobi said:
@TallPreMed @efle

What in the world are you two talking about?

I quote from @LizzyM

"Who cares? You played against people from other colleges so that's "intercollegiate". You aren't applying for a job on a farm team, you are applying for medical school. What does it matter if it was varsity, junior varsity or club? You played with players as talented as yourself, you trained, practiced, learned teamwork, experienced the agony of defeat and all the rest.

Call it intercollegiate and call it a day"

It's obviously intercollegiate.

/thread

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Awww did someone get cut from their high school bowling team end now their feelings are hurt?

I belong to the 1.5% of high school players who went on to play women's basketball at a D3 school. I had a friend who was the captain of her club basketball team in college. The varsity team won National championships, but anyone who wanted to play basketball, regardless of skill level, could play for the club team. All they had to do to be on the team was pay for their membership and show up to tournaments on the weekends. For varsity teams at my school, if you weren't recruited in high school you didn't play for the team.

I asked a couple of my friends who played a varsity sport in college what they thought intercollegiate should be defined as, as well as friends who had no interest in participating in college athletics. The ones who played varsity level believed intercollegiate should only be reserved for varsity and club should be in ECs. My friends who didn't play sports had no clue what I was talking about. "n=1" and yaddah yaddah but overall apart from a select few sports (men's rowing, rugby etc) they should not fall under the intercollegiate activities categories as they don't fall even close to the same amount of dedication and time commitment that varsity athletics requires. So like I said earlier, use to your discretion. If you played Quidditch or were a member of the ping pong team I'm not sure how seriously that would be taken.

Does this make sense? I'm 2 coffees in today and can see sounds.
 
FWIW :hilarious::lurking:Playing on a varsity team at my college was also pretty much like belonging to a cult though

And my friend's club bball team didn't have enough people to play for one weekend, so I showed up (this was a year after I had graduated) and played for them... Can't do that in the NCAA
 
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Just to make a point, "intramural" is NOT the same as "club sport." Intramural is a JOKE compared to many club sports.

No one is saying varsity athletics is the same as club sports, even for stuff like ultimate frisbee, rugby, or rowing where time commitment/seriousness is still pretty high. We are just making the argument that it should still come under intercollegiate athletics because one: its INTER collegiate, and two: its athletics.

Med schools definitely know the difference between playing D1 and playing club sports.
 
TallPreMed said:
Awww did someone get cut from their high school bowling team end now their feelings are hurt?

I belong to the 1.5% of high school players who went on to play women's basketball at a D3 school. I had a friend who was the captain of her club basketball team in college. The varsity team won National championships, but anyone who wanted to play basketball, regardless of skill level, could play for the club team. All they had to do to be on the team was pay for their membership and show up to tournaments on the weekends. For varsity teams at my school, if you weren't recruited in high school you didn't play for the team.

I asked a couple of my friends who played a varsity sport in college what they thought intercollegiate should be defined as, as well as friends who had no interest in participating in college athletics. The ones who played varsity level believed intercollegiate should only be reserved for varsity and club should be in ECs. My friends who didn't play sports had no clue what I was talking about. "n=1" and yaddah yaddah but overall apart from a select few sports (men's rowing, rugby etc) they should not fall under the intercollegiate activities categories as they don't fall even close to the same amount of dedication and time commitment that varsity athletics requires. So like I said earlier, use to your discretion. If you played Quidditch or were a member of the ping pong team I'm not sure how seriously that would be taken.

Does this make sense? I'm 2 coffees in today and can see sounds.
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You narcissistic, condescending *****.

It turns out that you can describe your athletic involvement in detail when applying, and make it abundantly clear what your time commitment and dedication were. From that, med schools can decide what kind of weight your athletics carry. D1 sports are impressive because of the time commitment and valuable skills gained (i.e. training, practice, teamwork, overcoming defeat, etc., as LizzyM mentioned), not because of the prestigious title of "D1." Your athletic skill level is irrelevant in medicine, it's the non-athletic skills gained that matter, and those skills can be gained in competitive intercollegiate club sports, in addition to your precious ultra-elite NCAA-sanctioned ones.

The term "intercollegiate" is a very simple one - conducted between colleges. The AAMC couldn't care less about the NCAA's definition of the term, nor does anyone care what your friends' opinions are on the appropriate definition.

For the record, I'm not listing an intercollegiate sports activity on my application, so I don't have a dog in this fight. It's just that your dog deserves to lose.
 
JustAPhD said:
The fact that women's crew is a NCAA sport makes me think it's more of a Title IX thing.
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Correct.
Many men's rowing programs have no interest in joining the NCAA because then they would not be allowed the number of scholarships they now have (which now come from alumni donations at some of the top programs)
 
TallPreMed said:
Aww, look! Someone's calling me names now! Must have struck a nerve. Sorry you got cut from chess club :kiss::joyful:
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Haha I actually started the chess club at my school - but I would honestly probably get cut if we were super competitive, I'm a bit of a rookie 🤣
 
walloobi said:
Haha I actually started the chess club at my school - but I would honestly probably get cut if we were super competitive, I'm a bit of a rookie 🤣
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Boom! Called it lol. "Rook"ie... No pun intended right
 
Hey everyone, just a reminder to keep it cool and professional. Be civil in your interactions please.

Thanks 🙂
 
I like how the people
TallPreMed said:
Awww did someone get cut from their high school bowling team end now their feelings are hurt?

I belong to the 1.5% of high school players who went on to play women's basketball at a D3 school. I had a friend who was the captain of her club basketball team in college. The varsity team won National championships, but anyone who wanted to play basketball, regardless of skill level, could play for the club team. All they had to do to be on the team was pay for their membership and show up to tournaments on the weekends. For varsity teams at my school, if you weren't recruited in high school you didn't play for the team.

I asked a couple of my friends who played a varsity sport in college what they thought intercollegiate should be defined as, as well as friends who had no interest in participating in college athletics. The ones who played varsity level believed intercollegiate should only be reserved for varsity and club should be in ECs. My friends who didn't play sports had no clue what I was talking about. "n=1" and yaddah yaddah but overall apart from a select few sports (men's rowing, rugby etc) they should not fall under the intercollegiate activities categories as they don't fall even close to the same amount of dedication and time commitment that varsity athletics requires. So like I said earlier, use to your discretion. If you played Quidditch or were a member of the ping pong team I'm not sure how seriously that would be taken.

Does this make sense? I'm 2 coffees in today and can see sounds.
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(I am a former D2 tennis player and I also played club tennis)


News flash: No offense but you don't have to be any good to play at the D3 level. No one cares if you spend so much time playing, You aren't going to be a professional.

Its people like you who give athletes a bad name. Playing sports for most people is a luxury, some people can't commit the time we did due to work, family obligations .
 
You know what? I had this scathing and slightly petty reply catered just to you bunny, because you are so very WRONG, but I'm going to take the high road this time. Best of luck in your endeavors.
 

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TallPreMed said:
You know what? I had this scathing and slightly petty reply catered just to you bunny, because you are so very WRONG, but I'm going to take the high road this time. Best of luck in your endeavors.
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Wrong about what? You have to admit it, I do as a D2 athlete: Most of us aren't going to be pros, we are doing it for the love of our sport/team. Its the same reason people on a club team do their sport, just on a scaled back level. Regardless, you shouldn't put people down (see how it feels?)

Adcoms will recognize your commitment but don't expect them to get down on their knees for you.
 
bunnyg said:
Wrong about what? You have to admit it, I do as a D2 athlete: Most of us aren't going to be pros, we are doing it for the love of our sport/team. Its the same reason people on a club team do their sport, just on a scaled back level. Regardless, you shouldn't put people down (see how it feels?)

Adcoms will recognize your commitment but don't expect them to get down on their knees for you.
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I don't see anywhere where I put anyone down. I didn't mock anyone for their athletic ability. I didn't insinuate that anyone "get down on their knees" for me. I simply stated the facts, with a few smartass responses for people who decided to jump down my throat. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn't say. I pointed out the fundamental differences between club and varsity athletics. Plain and simple. I'm not going to apologize for you getting all butt hurt about it.
 
Well, this seemingly turned down a wrong path ...

I'm going to go out on a limb and refute @bunnyg by saying most D1 athletes also will never be pro (especially women, unfortunately). This is why I inevitably gave up D1 softball and shifted towards powerlifting; the love of the game and my competitiveness will never outshine grades/career potential. (Also because my dean made me choose between my major and the sport) Furthermore, I don't think anyone in DI-III, club, intramural, etc. would be in it if they didn't love the sport/team.

Regardless, I can see were @TallPreMed is coming from. However, I believe being part of a nationally accredited organization (because its not NCAA sanctioned) and being successful in that can be seen comparably to some varsity sports on paper.
 
breezy16 said:
Well, this seemingly turned down a wrong path ...

I'm going to go out on a limb and refute @bunnyg by saying most D1 athletes also will never be pro (especially women, unfortunately). This is why I inevitably gave up D1 softball and shifted towards powerlifting; the love of the game and my competitiveness will never outshine grades/career potential. (Also because my dean made me choose between my major and the sport) Furthermore, I don't think anyone in DI-III, club, intramural, etc. would be in it if they didn't love the sport/team.

Regardless, I can see were @TallPreMed is coming from. However, I believe being part of a nationally accredited organization (because its not NCAA sanctioned) and being successful in that can be seen comparably to some varsity sports on paper.
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I will agree with you on the last part as well.

I had no intentions of playing basketball professionally, however I had at one point wanted to follow in my father's footsteps and coach college basketball and was well on my way before I had to stop playing after my junior year, I played for the love of the sport and the fact that it would have helped with my post graduate aspirations. Plus that's how I made friends, ya know? Most of the friends I make now are from city IM leagues I play in. Most of my old teammates do the same... Like "how do you make friends without sports?" Haha
 
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