Comparing two job offers

[futureapppsy2]

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I’m looking at two job offers, both of which would allow me to live with my SO OCONUS.

Job A:
-Academic job
-Tenured
-Would require brief travel back to the US ~8 times a year (4 month gap where no travel is required)
-Vest for retirement pension in 4.5 years
-Minus travel to the US, work from home

Job B:
-VA clinical job
-Not clear if my current probationary period would carry over or if I would start a new one, waiting to hear back from HR
-On-site 5 days a week
-No travel back to the US mainland
-Vest to pension in 4 years
-Pays $40k less per year than job A

The way I see it, Job A has advantages in income and work from home when not needing to travel. Job B has advantages in not needing to go back to the US. Benefits are a wash, and maybe stability is a wash as well.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[R. Matey]

Seems like A is a clear winner based on everything I've heard about the VA (not just on this board, but from others as well). It seems to me that it really all hinges on how inconvenient you view traveling to and from the US mainland. Personally, if the money is better and the stability is the same. I'd opt for the better money and (potentially) more freedom that typically accompanies academic jobs.

 

[PsyDr]

A, by a long shot.

1) look into tax advantages of being off shore. IIRC, first $100k is tax free. Might be able to be paid in USD or Euro. Aka: 25% pay increase doing nothing.
2) which ex pat doesn’t want to travel back to their homeland? There is an 80% chance you want to buy a bunch of toiletries, electronics, DURABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT, 90 day supply of medication, CEs, or whatever (😉). “Rent” an office space from your parents and now you have some business travel. Bring back some PS5s, that are mildly scuffed, and you’re getting free travel.
3) “OCONUS”, not in the US can refer to a bunch of things. Your dollar can either go VERY far, or very not.

 

[medium rare]

A

 

[Sanman]

In this environment, I would opt for A unless you really hate travel for some reason. Who knows what option B will be like in one year.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Going to agree with the others--I don't see much actual advantage for job B unless you really don't want to travel, you really don't want to be back in academia, or the environment for A is just ridiculously toxic.

 

[Pragma]

I’m looking at two job offers, both of which would allow me to live with my SO OCONUS.

Job A:
-Academic job
-Tenured
-Would require brief travel back to the US ~8 times a year (4 month gap where no travel is required)
-Vest for retirement pension in 4.5 years
-Minus travel to the US, work from home

Job B:
-VA clinical job
-Not clear if my current probationary period would carry over or if I would start a new one, waiting to hear back from HR
-On-site 5 days a week
-No travel back to the US mainland
-Vest to pension in 4 years
-Pays $40k less per year than job A

The way I see it, Job A has advantages in income and work from home when not needing to travel. Job B has advantages in not needing to go back to the US. Benefits are a wash, and maybe stability is a wash as well.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

A sounds great - B seems in play if you don’t want to travel and don’t mind the disruption of the current admin. Does the locality have a SSR? Who knows if they don’t go after those next but worth looking into.

 

[Ollie123]

Superficially I would agree with "A" but I'm going to be the dissenting voice here and say we really don't have enough information.

What kind of institution is "A" (Public vs Private), what department are you in, do you walk in the door with tenure or do you have essentially a waiting period (not uncommon), what are their revenue streams like, etc. Academia is going to be pretty rocky the next couple years. Duke is in the midst of a major RIF that - so far - doesn't appear to be directed at faculty, but they're hinting at widespread layoffs. Not that I'd bank on the VA being stable either, but I think stability needs to be the key consideration. I would emphatically NOT take a job at an institution heavily reliant on NSF/DOE funding and international students that isn't a flagship campus right now.

Travel itself doesn't bother me, but it may bother you. Consider that. Also consider potential changes in life circumstances if this is potentially a long-term thing (vs say - spouse being military and potentially moving again in 2-3 years). Kids in the future? I'd have been thrilled to spend a full week per month traveling before kids, now my spouse would murder me.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Superficially I would agree with "A" but I'm going to be the dissenting voice here and say we really don't have enough information.

What kind of institution is "A" (Public vs Private), what department are you in, do you walk in the door with tenure or do you have essentially a waiting period (not uncommon), what are their revenue streams like, etc. Academia is going to be pretty rocky the next couple years. Duke is in the midst of a major RIF that - so far - doesn't appear to be directed at faculty, but they're hinting at widespread layoffs. Not that I'd bank on the VA being stable either, but I think stability needs to be the key consideration. I would emphatically NOT take a job at an institution heavily reliant on NSF/DOE funding and international students that isn't a flagship campus right now.

Travel itself doesn't bother me, but it may bother you. Consider that. Also consider potential changes in life circumstances if this is potentially a long-term thing (vs say - spouse being military and potentially moving again in 2-3 years). Kids in the future? I'd have been thrilled to spend a full week per month traveling before kids, now my spouse would murder me.

Good points to consider. I agree that academia and the VA are both rocky right now, which is why I think that they’re about equal in terms of stability. Tenure is locked in, so that’s nice, and the institution seems to be one of the more stable ones at the moment, though that could change, of course. No kids, none in the foreseeable future. SO has zero plans to leave for elsewhere (born and raised there). The travel is literally for 1 two-hour meeting a month, which is nuts, but it’s the one thing the chair won’t flex on.

 

[Sanman]

Good points to consider. I agree that academia and the VA are both rocky right now, which is why I think that they’re about equal in terms of stability. Tenure is locked in, so that’s nice, and the institution seems to be one of the more stable ones at the moment, though that could change, of course. No kids, none in the foreseeable future. SO has zero plans to leave for elsewhere (born and raised there). The travel is literally for 1 two-hour meeting a month, which is nuts, but it’s the one thing the chair won’t flex on.

Is the chair the only person requiring it? Chances of that requirement going away down the line if the chair leaves?

 

[Ollie123]

Obviously no guarantees, but I think there is also a decent chance this requirement suddenly becomes more flexible once you are in the door and have rapport with the chair anyways. . I know LOTS of departments that require in-person attendance at the monthly faculty meetings during hiring that suddenly becomes more flexible down the line (when it becomes clear that current faculty completely ignore the rules and do what they want).

 

[quickpsych]

I agree with others, Option A sounds like a way better option given the current climate of the VA (based on the other thread) and seems like more flexibility and more money.

 

[docloufan]

I’m looking at two job offers, both of which would allow me to live with my SO OCONUS.

Job A:
-Academic job
-Tenured
-Would require brief travel back to the US ~8 times a year (4 month gap where no travel is required)
-Vest for retirement pension in 4.5 years
-Minus travel to the US, work from home

Job B:
-VA clinical job
-Not clear if my current probationary period would carry over or if I would start a new one, waiting to hear back from HR
-On-site 5 days a week
-No travel back to the US mainland
-Vest to pension in 4 years
-Pays $40k less per year than job A

The way I see it, Job A has advantages in income and work from home when not needing to travel. Job B has advantages in not needing to go back to the US. Benefits are a wash, and maybe stability is a wash as well.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

VA Clinical job vs an Academic job with a "walk-in" tenure? I mean...what do you want to actually do every day? That's a HUGE difference... and not even close to the same job/career?

I have worked from home since before the COVID... and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to an appointment-style, on site, OP clinical job. I just couldn't do it. Coming from an academic background, its awful and terrible micromanaging. I'd literally leave the field entirely before I did that.

 

[futureapppsy2]

VA Clinical job vs an Academic job with a "walk-in" tenure? I mean...what do you want to actually do every day? That's a HUGE difference... and not even close to the same job/career?

I have worked from home since before the COVID... and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to an appointment-style, on site, OP clinical job. I just couldn't do it. Coming from an academic background, its awful and terrible micromanaging. I'd literally leave the field entirely before I did that.

I've done both, and I honestly like different aspects of both.

 

[docloufan]

I've done both, and I honestly like different aspects of both.

I mean, if you have fully done/worked both sides of the scientist-practitioner model that's great...and rare. Especially these days.

But just understand that no one does that/this to be a wage-worker who "clocks in" at a desk/computer. That's literally the whole thing to me. I literally chose an advanced education/educational path in order to NOT punch a clock like a factory worker.

Although I am far removed from VA work, my impression from everyone I know who is currently working there is that it is terribly rigid and hierarchical. They use terms like "insubordination" and "leave." Uh... yea. No thanks. I'm not in the Army or Navy, folks. I just cant.

 

[Pragma]

I think VA clinical positions are generally quite regimented, full schedules. That’s the type of life and job you sign up for and you don’t bring work home with you. There’s red tape to deal with but its contained. If it is in a specific location that improves your QOL, then it is compelling.

Good luck making your decision friend!

 

[futureapppsy2]

I think VA clinical positions are generally quite regimented, full schedules. That’s the type of life and job you sign up for and you don’t bring work home with you. There’s red tape to deal with but its contained. If it is in a specific location that improves your QOL, then it is compelling.

Good luck making your decision friend!

It would be a lower but sicker caseload than my current VA position, which I think would make it more contained, but 100% agreed that VA positions are more contained than academia.

 

[LM02]

I work closely with the VA, but am not VA employed myself. I know many people who are actively looking to leave (and some who will imminently be doing so), are feeling generally unsettled, and finding that the "stability" they once appreciated at the VA is no longer such a guarantee. Like everyone above, I'd find the tenured position outside of the VA/federal government - especially if it is a hard money position - much more appealing right now. And especially so if it is in a country where your partner is from.

The question of what you would be doing is an interesting one - will you be doing remote teaching? Trying to conduct research? Some blend of the above? Would you like the work? The travel back to the US is hard to weigh as an outsider, as there's a big difference between flying back from Canada multiple times per year than, say, a place farther flung! But only you can weigh that detail.