Competing with the best students in your class when you aren't that good urself.

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BoxinMoxin

BoxinMoxin

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typed in urself because I did not have enough space for yourself

Anyways I am friends and study buddies with these two people in particular. One is a guy who is in his early 20s (he took some time off) and he was in my chemistry 2 class, physics 1 class, and is currently in my physics 2 class. Another is this girl, she is the same age as me, she was in my chem 2, physics 1, and is currently in my physics 2 class also. In fact she is my lab partner.

These two people make high A's on nearly every test, they are good people and they excel academically. They have GPAs in the high A range (they told me) while mines is a measly 2.8.

The two people I know went to good high schools in the richer district and I went to a "magnet school" in a poor district (in reality it wasn't that good of a school, we rarely sent kids to a top 40 university, I mean rarely).

I just don't get it. I study for tests too but usually I get in the 70s, 60s, and sometimes 80s on them.......

Will I ever be able to compete with those kids or am I just hopeless?
 
BoxinMoxin said:
typed in urself because I did not have enough space for yourself

Anyways I am friends and study buddies with these two people in particular. One is a guy who is in his early 20s (he took some time off) and he was in my chemistry 2 class, physics 1 class, and is currently in my physics 2 class. Another is this girl, she is the same age as me, she was in my chem 2, physics 1, and is currently in my physics 2 class also. In fact she is my lab partner.

These two people make high A's on nearly every test, they are good people and they excel academically. They have GPAs in the high A range (they told me) while mines is a measly 2.8.

The two people I know went to good high schools in the richer district and I went to a "magnet school" in a poor district (in reality it wasn't that good of a school, we rarely sent kids to a top 40 university, I mean rarely).

I just don't get it. I study for tests too but usually I get in the 70s, 60s, and sometimes 80s on them.......

Will I ever be able to compete with those kids or am I just hopeless?
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Chillax, man. You're not hopeless 👍

Consider the way you're studying, whether you're passionate about what you're doing, and utilize office hours, free tutors through your university, etc., to make up ground where you think you might be losing it. Use the internet and use textbooks in the library if you think you need extra problems or a different explanation for things. Talk to your study buddies and figure out what they might be doing differently. Know that you have the exact same resources as them, and exploit what opportunities you can to surge ahead.

Set the bar high: If you can't teach what you're learning to someone else in the room, then you can always study it more.
 
well we are all taking organic chemistry in the fall, both of us have different professors though

I made a C in both of my gen chem courses, they made A's.
 
You just need to keep this in mind: Just because they can spend, say, 5 hours preparing for a test and get an A doesn't mean you can put in 5 hours and expect the same. Different people have different aptitudes, backgrounds, etc. You may need to pre-study for your group study sessions in order to get more out of them. Or, maybe you just don't study well in groups.

I have always found it more helpful if I am the "best" person in a group. Being around people who know the material better than you do may give you a false sense of confidence by leading you to think you understand it as well as they do. It's a lot better to study with people who have no idea what's going on... Teaching other people is a great way to force yourself to understand the material.
 
I can't handle that anymore - after the 3rd study session where I found myself arguing with someone that the 3 resonance structures of something aren't the reason there are 3 isotopes of it I began worrying that study sessions would become binge drinking sessions. I've stuck with a couple friends pretty much on par with me. OP, sack up and get a tutor. I didn't go to the best high school compared to a lot of the people at my university, and while that may have affected things the first few months of college, after gen chem/bio no one has taken orgo/biochem/cell phys/etc and high school no longer works as an excuse
 
Web MD said:
I can't handle that anymore - after the 3rd study session where I found myself arguing with someone that the 3 resonance structures of something aren't the reason there are 3 isotopes of it I began worrying that study sessions would become binge drinking sessions. I've stuck with a couple friends pretty much on par with me. OP, sack up and get a tutor. I didn't go to the best high school compared to a lot of the people at my university, and while that may have affected things the first few months of college, after gen chem/bio no one has taken orgo/biochem/cell phys/etc and high school no longer works as an excuse
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thanks man, that was helpful
 
Best advice you're going to get in this thread
 
OP, work on understanding the why of things. Identify how they are learning and try to mimic their styles. Exceptional students usually look at things differently. For example, I've noticed that weak students tend to almost spiritualize science. Their descriptions of things sound like something taken directly out of the book and are very ambiguous, sound "abstract" and are difficult to follow instead of being simple and concrete. When someone asks you to explain magnetism or electrical flow, how do you explain it? Could an average child follow along? If not, your understanding of the concept is weak/incomplete.
 
Compete in sports, not academics. Do the best you can and don't worry about the people ahead of you.
 
just spend a lot of time on the stuff you aren't sure about and get outside help, say ask a professor or a TA for help. Your GPA is very important and a 2.8 won't get you anywhere so just stay focused and try not to compare yourself with others. that just leads to frustration because unless you are the best, there will always be someone better.
 
Honestly, intelligence really isn't that deciding of a factor when going for a high GPA. I'm not just saying that beacuse I have a measly mid-3 gpa ( 🙄 ), but just because of the nature of school in general.

A perfect example is between a friend of mine and I. She has a 4.0 (well, had up until this class). We took physics I and II together. I did reasonably well in it with not too much work and got A's in both semesters. She was constantly in for office hours, calling me at night to go over homework problems, etc. I think she barely scraped an A in II and got a B in I.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that some people have a much greater drive/motivation to get the grades, others don't. I'm fairly confident that had I chosen to put in the effort needed for a 4.0, I could have one (or darn close). I'm just lazy, too lazy, so I'm working on that.
 
vin5cent0 said:
Essentially what I'm trying to say is that some people have a much greater drive/motivation to get the grades, others don't. I'm fairly confident that had I chosen to put in the effort needed for a 4.0, I could have one (or darn close). I'm just lazy, too lazy, so I'm working on that.
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Within one standard deviation on the intelligence scale, being lazy is far, far worse than being stupid. I learned that the hard way..
 
Deathstar said:
This is always an option OP. They're hurting you by messing with the curve. Do what must be done.
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I second this. OP, just ask yourself, "what would Tonya Harding do?" and I am sure you will have a successful, rewarding life.
 
BoxinMoxin said:
The two people I know went to good high schools in the richer district and I went to a "magnet school" in a poor district (in reality it wasn't that good of a school, we rarely sent kids to a top 40 university, I mean rarely).

I just don't get it. I study for tests too but usually I get in the 70s, 60s, and sometimes 80s on them.......

Will I ever be able to compete with those kids or am I just hopeless?
Click to expand...
My HS was very mediocre as well. It was not well-funded (not in a rich area), we hand a handful of AP classes which were easier than regular classes, a handful of good teachers, and it generally didn't prepare you for college (whether education-wise or application-wise). When I started college I had to play catch-up to everyone else in calc, gchem, and physics since these subjects were never taught properly in my HS. While my classmates were rocking exams with little or no studying since they had taken the classes in HS (as had I, to an extent), I had to go back and re-learn all the concepts that I should have got down in HS. Yes, this put me at a disadvantage in the beginning, but I did what I had to do and graduated with a 3.8+ c/sGPA.

tl;dr You can only blame your crappy HS for so long. You need to figure out what works for you and what doesn't when it comes to studying. Are you sure you work better in groups?
 
An acceptable form of dealing with those who score better than you.
gunner7.jpg
 
rentedmule said:
tl;dr You can't only blame your crappy HS at all. You need to figure out what works for you and what doesn't when it comes to studying. Are you sure you work better in groups?
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ftfy

Nut up and work harder. Just because they can get by with a handful of study hours doesn't mean you can. My sister and I were like this in high school. I could hear the material once in class and do the assigned homework and got As and Bs all the way through. She had to bust her ass and do ~4 hours of studying a night, but she goes As and Bs all the way through, too. What you lack in natural ability can be made up for with hard work. But start soon, because you aren't getting into any medical school that doesn't come with a beach side view with a 2.8 GPA.
 
ya, scary scary!

I don't even know what is to become of me bros!

I will probably make a B in physics 2 (taking it right now over the summer) and I made a B in physics 1
 
At least you're making effective use of your study time
 
Natural (premed) selection: 90% won't make it. Be one of the 10%, or don't. You'll waste a lot of energy doubting yourself that could better be spent gunning
 
First two years of highschool I was exactly like you, I studied quite a bit but I always got Bs and Cs. Come college, something changed, my attitude towards studies became vastly different and I became the person who most people look at "dang, is it even possible to get a grade like that?" -Not to boast or anything, I'm just trying to say it's all about the quality of studies and, more importantly, the attitude towards them.
 
NightGod said:
ftfy

Nut up and work harder. Just because they can get by with a handful of study hours doesn't mean you can. My sister and I were like this in high school. I could hear the material once in class and do the assigned homework and got As and Bs all the way through. She had to bust her ass and do ~4 hours of studying a night, but she goes As and Bs all the way through, too. What you lack in natural ability can be made up for with hard work. But start soon, because you aren't getting into any medical school that doesn't come with a beach side view with a 2.8 GPA.
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I liked the last line there :laugh:... everyone has different studying patterns, like I can't work in a group or with people, doesn't matter how hard the subject is, I have too understand it all myself.
 
you must learn the art of cramming and pulling all nighter, then taking a massive energy drink before the test.

do it with caution lol
 
Seriously that's some horrible advice (towards tn).
 
tn4596 said:
you must learn the art of cramming and pulling all nighter, then taking a massive energy drink before the test.

do it with caution lol
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THIS is a great example of how to properly gun! Give awful advice to people who might otherwise be your competition and then watch, point, and laugh as they fail. 😱


BTW, I don't support that route. Your best bet really is to do your best. The only time I'm ok with gunning is when you see someone gun others down and it just isn't right -- then I say gun 'em down and keep 'em out! :laugh:
 
music2doc said:
THIS is a great example of how to properly gun! Give awful advice to people who might otherwise be your competition and then watch, point, and laugh as they fail. 😱


BTW, I don't support that route. Your best bet really is to do your best. The only time I'm ok with gunning is when you see someone gun others down and it just isn't right -- then I say gun 'em down and keep 'em out! :laugh:
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No you let the gunners gun. They're doing the dirty work that you don't want to do. You can even discreetly help them so that they can continue gunning but you don't become a pariah.
 
:idea:

Figure out what works for you and forget about the rest of the BS.
 
Deathstar said:
No you let the gunners gun. They're doing the dirty work that you don't want to do. You can even discreetly help them so that they can continue gunning but you don't become a pariah.
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Haha... Nah, I'm a strong enough applicant I don't need others to gun for me, but I don't want as my colleague someone who will sabotage his/her colleagues just to get ahead.
 
As a non-trad who came back to college after 12 years, I didn't really know what a "gunner" was until I read this forum. These little creeps may find their way into med school, but they will get shut down quickly. People who aren't team players don't get far in the real world.
 
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Don't worry about other people. Get a tutor, most schools offer them for free and spend as much time as you can studying without driving yourself nuts
 
Hahaha the funniest part is that OP is probably the only one that thinks he's competing, your friends who are studying and rocking through their classes probably don't even see it as a competition
 
Web MD said:
Hahaha the funniest part is that OP is probably the only one that thinks he's competing, your friends who are studying and rocking through their classes probably don't even see it as a competition
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so true

feelsbadman.jpg
 
They stopped asking people to demonstrate burr holes during interviews back in '05
 
Sometimes people have a natural affinity towards particular topics in the sciences. Some people will simply have a natural talent, such as memorizing large amounts of information. And with these things in consideration, it is not surprising that you may find some of these individuals inside of college and university classrooms.

As such, the issue to address is whether or not it is fair for "average" individuals to compete against individuals whom are definitely outliers.

Personally, I think the ideal classroom setting (such as for second semester organic chemistry) would be that all the students are of average skill and are then allowed to compete for a grade. Otherwise, the majority of students will continually be outed by individuals who may have above average mental skills. Furthermore, these individuals are naive to the topic of organic (aka they have yet to study the course material yet).

There is also the fact that some people walk into courses with the material already known, perhaps having read plenty of books to help them prepare for the course.

And I'll have to somewhat disagree with the comment that high school prep does not help past a particular level: Regional schools may have an advantage in prepping students for nearby universities/colleges unlike schools who are cities away without having the intention of sending their high school graduates to those universities/colleges.

Personally, I was prepped to go to a nearby university a city away, not something cities away, which is Chicago.

I also disagree that a tutor can be useful. Again, second semester organic chemistry can simply appear to be large amounts of memorization unless you or your tutor are familiar with a graduate level understanding of the orbital energy interactions involved.


With that said, the best thing a person can do is find the right people to prepare him/her.
 
Genecks said:
Personally, I think the ideal classroom setting (such as for second semester organic chemistry) would be that all the students are of average skill and are then allowed to compete for a grade. Otherwise, the majority of students will continually be outed by individuals who may have above average mental skills. Furthermore, these individuals are naive to the topic of organic (aka they have yet to study the course material yet).
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😕

Hard work can offset a lot of this perceived intellectual disparity. The "ideal" situation you describe is just silly.

And I'll have to somewhat disagree with the comment that high school prep does not help past a particular level: Regional schools may have an advantage in prepping students for nearby universities/colleges unlike schools who are cities away without having the intention of sending their high school graduates to those universities/colleges.

Personally, I was prepped to go to a nearby university a city away, not something cities away, which is Chicago.
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Again, this is just silly. High schools don't prep you selectively for certain colleges.

I also disagree that a tutor can be useful. Again, second semester organic chemistry can simply appear to be large amounts of memorization unless you or your tutor are familiar with a graduate level understanding of the orbital energy interactions involved.


With that said, the best thing a person can do is find the right people to prepare him/her.
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😕 the right people to prepare him/her... you mean like a tutor?
 
It's not silly. But it would be near impossible to get such a setup. I define those conditions to create a fair scenario where everyone has an equal grounding and the distributions of grades is based on effort rather than walking in knowing the material. Hence the point of a naive sample.

I know it's not silly, because I remember sitting in organic I with plenty of people holding past exams in their hands the week before the exam, with all those people feverishly looking over the past exams.

hey, someone actually agrees: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10345239&postcount=4

I'm saying the classroom models of past have not been holding up well since the 2000s, because the information age provides the ability for people to not walk into a classroom with a naive mindset.

What's silly is the lack of scientific study on these classroom models at the college level, what makes these students different, and how people go about succeeding. Curious there had been a large lack until the past decade. About all there was was intuitive thinking by professors and colleagues based on collected classroom grade statistics rather than a large detailed examination of individual differences.

Personally, I came from an area where there was an emphasis on learning through reading and less on lecture material. However, after plenty of discussion with people around the Chicago area, it appears that much learning occurs through oration rather than the written word: This is very different from how I was taught.

Also, your bolding of tutor can depend on how you operationally define tutor. A liberal defining of tutor could simply be a well-written post on a forum describing one's troubles with a class and what they had to do in order to pass it with an A. I've come across plenty of nice tidbits of information written by individuals that have helped prepare me for courses.
 
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wow, and here I was thinking I belonged in the Ivies


man I am so delusional.......
 
His thing is the sarcastic one-liner that contributes nothing. It's more a show of his insecurity and wanting to belong/have others think he's cool than anything to do with you. Pay him no mind.
 
SitraAchra said:
His thing is the sarcastic one-liner that contributes nothing. It's more a show of his insecurity and wanting to belong/have others think he's cool than anything to do with you. Pay him no mind.
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mrclassydoesNOTAPPROVE.gif
 
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