Competitive for what field?

[mountaindew2006]

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A friend of mine has this score, with good LORs possible, good evaluations possibly (not all H's). In terms of 'lifestyle' fields and those that are lucrative, what is the best field for him? (i know it all depends on what he likes, etc, but lets suppose that he will like whatever as long as the above two criteria are met, given his altruistic mentality regardless). 😎

 

[kas23]

Yes, I have a friend who has this score too and am wondering what her chances of matching into OB/Gyn or peds next year are. So, I am interested too.

 

[kinetic]

In terms of 'lifestyle' fields and those that are lucrative, what is the best field for him? ...he will like whatever as long as the above two criteria are met, given his altruistic mentality ...

He sounds very altruistic. Oh, wait, I looked up altruism and it's the complete opposite.

 

[mountaindew2006]

He sounds very altruistic. Oh, wait, I looked up altruism and it's the complete opposite.

i was being sarcastic with the 'altruistic'. however, he does want to help ppl out etc...however, financial wellbeing, etc are also very important.

sorry i had to rephrase 👍

 

[USAF MD '05]

Any primary care field is wide open to your friend, including OB. He could also hit gen surg or ER, especially if he takes step 2 early and rocks it out. If he has a stellar CV that will help as well. Assuming he really bumps on Step2, and is solid everywhere else, he can do most things....except Derm or Rad Onc. Good luck to this "friend".

 

[Smurfette]

I respectfully disagree with USAF. Honestly, with sub-200 step I scores, it would be REALLY REALLY hard to match (or get interviews) in the really competitive fields---derm, rad-onc, neurosurg, ortho, ophtho, plastics, ENT, rads, urology, anesthesia. You need to apply to back-ups in another field.

ER and surgery community-based programs would be possible, but still fairly tough unless you do a fair amount better on Step II or have great grades and LORs.

Path, IM, Peds, FP, PMR, neuro and OB would be easier to match into, as well as prelim surgery slots.

Just my 0.02, not trying to be the bad guy but am trying to be honest.

 

[mosche]

This is SDN (a.k.a. super-duper numbers) !

Often, I believe, students who read posts on SDN are left with a thwarted sense of reality. Why? First: it seems that everyone who posts their scores on these threads have super numbers. I work for Kaplan -- I'm also an m3, not a salesman -- I assure you that such super scores are JUST THAT! Second: while the competitive programs do receive phenomenol applicants, there are many outstanding programs in less competitive schools. For instance, Pathology is typically thought of as a less competitive residency; however, if a student is sold on MGH or Hopkins, it can be assumed that the competition will be fierce. If, on the other hand, one is willing to apply to a wide spectrum of programs, she/he will likely match. The same is true of most specialties. Third, and finally, remember that WE ALL TAKE THE SAME BOARDS; so, regardless of where you match, you will still be a physician 👍 . Thus, apply to many programs, do what is necessary to strengthen resumes -- perhaps away rotations at lesser known schools --, and ask physicians for their imput/suggestions.

Hope this helps!

 

[Finally M3]

Any primary care field is wide open to your friend, including OB. He could also hit gen surg or ER, especially if he takes step 2 early and rocks it out. If he has a stellar CV that will help as well. Assuming he really bumps on Step2, and is solid everywhere else, he can do most things....except Derm or Rad Onc. Good luck to this "friend".

Um...I dunno if he would get many interviews in ER or gensurg. Both had pretty competitive matches last year. At best, he might have a chance at one of the above community-based programs.

I agree with above that if he rocks Step2, he would have a better chance in more areas. But I'm sceptical of his/her chances or rads/ortho/neursurg/etc. etc. I've heard of community Rads programs with Step1 cutoffs of 225-230.

Gas is possible. PM&R is probable (we'll see after this match if there really is more USMG interest). Pysch is probable. Path may not be possible, considering the uptick in interest. Any primary care field is open, but you can exclude most university-based programs.

Good luck! 🙂

 

[Winged Scapula]

Any primary care field is wide open to your friend, including OB. He could also hit gen surg or ER, especially if he takes step 2 early and rocks it out. If he has a stellar CV that will help as well. Assuming he really bumps on Step2, and is solid everywhere else, he can do most things....except Derm or Rad Onc. Good luck to this "friend".

Given the applicant pool I've seen the last 2 years, IMHO unless this "friend" hsa an otherwise stellar CV, such a low USMLE score is a serious detriment to interviewing and matching in Gen Surg. We're hardly a top tier program but it is the rare applicant we've interviewed with scores under 200 - regardless of "SDN score inflation" there appear to be a lot of people out there with scores in the 240-260 applying for gen Surg. Obviously if they're schmoes it will likely show in the interview, but ya gotta get to interview in the first place....

Bottom line is, basing someone's chances on a single score is very difficult, at least at program that actually look at the rest of your application.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Pathology is typically thought of as a less competitive residency; however, if a student is sold on MGH or Hopkins, it can be assumed that the competition will be fierce.

Absolutely mosche! I can't stress this enough. Regardless of specialty choice, competition will be fierce at the top institutions. I just interviewed at Hopknis for Path...competition is fierce. They're interviewing 63 people to fill 9 spots. The majority of the applicants are MD/PhDs with crazy board scores.

 

[kas23]

This is SDN (a.k.a. super-duper numbers) !

Often, I believe, students who read posts on SDN are left with a thwarted sense of reality. Why? First: it seems that everyone who posts their scores on these threads have super numbers. I work for Kaplan -- I'm also an m3, not a salesman -- I assure you that such super scores are JUST THAT! Second: while the competitive programs do receive phenomenol applicants, there are many outstanding programs in less competitive schools. For instance, Pathology is typically thought of as a less competitive residency; however, if a student is sold on MGH or Hopkins, it can be assumed that the competition will be fierce. If, on the other hand, one is willing to apply to a wide spectrum of programs, she/he will likely match. The same is true of most specialties. Third, and finally, remember that WE ALL TAKE THE SAME BOARDS; so, regardless of where you match, you will still be a physician 👍 . Thus, apply to many programs, do what is necessary to strengthen resumes -- perhaps away rotations at lesser known schools --, and ask physicians for their imput/suggestions.

Hope this helps!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't MGH fail to fill their path spots last year?

 

[margaritaboy]

The OP asked what fields a step 1 score of 197 would be competitive for. I think the honest answer is that it really won't be 'competitive,' per se, for any one field. All things being equal, that individual will probably have to work a little harder during the application process and apply to more programs than an average applicant. That is especially true since your friend is interested in schedule, compensation etc.

As mentioned above, I think it would be very tough to land a spot in a general surgery or EM residency. Not impossible, but very tough.

The best advice I can think to give your friend is to work his/her ass off and do significantly better on step 2, get good clinical clerkship grades, and get fantastic LORs. Do as much as possible to make that step one score look like an aberration on an otherwise very respectable application, and people reviewing the application may minimize the significance of the step 1 score and focus on all the other positives.

 

[yaah]

OK, I have to answer this every time it comes up, but there were unmatched spots at MGH, Brigham, UCSF, and Wash U last year (maybe other high power places too). HOWEVER (and this is an extremely important point) all of these spots were in the clinical pathology only track. The vast majority of applicants to pathology do AP/CP combined, and a smaller portion do AP only or AP/neuropath. Only a very few do CP only, and these are generally people who are heavy researchers (often MD/PhD) with grant funding and the main reason to do a residency is to continue their research, get certified in pathology, so they can become an academic staff member. Training in CP only severely limits your job opportunities because most CP is automated, and pathologists who supervise it, unless they are supervising a large lab somewhere are doing it only as part of their job.

Anatomic path is more important for private practice. AP/CP combined and AP only spots are generally matched together, because residency programs need residents to do work within AP. The majority of CP runs fine without resident input or help.

So yes, these programs had unmatched path spots, but they were all CP only spots and irrelevant to the majority of path applicants. Path is becoming a much more competitive residency to match into (but still not like the other tough ones) and part of the problem is that lots of smart people go into it, so the average applicant to path is quite qualified with a great CV. Residency programs will let their CP only spots go unfilled instead of putting in unqualified people just to fill the spot (because, as I said, CP residents aren't necessarily as important to the day to day business of path).

For more info, visit the path forum and check out the FAQs.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Kinda to touch on things yaah said already...even though pathology is becoming more competitive, there IS hope for people who think that path is an easy ticket to a top notch program....and that is to apply to CP only positions. A figure I heard on the interview trail was that approx. 94% path residents do AP/CP combined training. 5% do AP only. 1% do CP only.

I will warn you though...if you choose to take this CP only route, you will be up against stiff competition because the far majority of CP only path residents are highly qualified MD/PhDs who are solely focused on an academic career (basically they just wanna run their own basic science lab).