Competitive Specialties arent worth it ( except Derm)?

[astronautkid]

Considering my options , I have come to the conclusion that shooting for competitive specialties (ENT/Ortho/Opto/Plastics/Gen Surg) isnt really worth it. I could make nearly as much going( maybe a little less) GAS/EM/(IM in a rural area) without taking the liability I do in surgery.

Even if im making 50-100k less in IM/EM/PM&R/Rads/GAS, there is so many risks you take on going into competitive/surgery specialties. Risk of injury to patient, risk of personal injury /debilitating injury that can put me out of using my hands effectively, and at the end of the day competitive specialities have massive malpractice insurance costs, so dont I end up losing that extra money I make, assuming Im in private practice/hospital doesnt cover it? Im assuming people going into these specialties just have an extra passion for it that makes them go that route or are just nerdy gunners ?

Worst case scenario I end up IM/FM. maybe Im capped off at maybe 300K at most i'll ever make, but my job is mostly diagnostic in nature. There is very little work done with my hands except PE, drainage, etc.. but im really getting paid to use my knowledge to diagnose/order tests/ talk to a ****ing patient. Really solid gig. Thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Perhaps not everyone can tolerate spending 90% of their day on a desk typing notes, putting orders, reviewing labs, consulting specialists, playing middle man between two specialties, and dealing with social work stuff.

Ophtho has a great lifestyle and extremely rewarding outcomes. Similar things can be said about ENT and Uro.

 

[astronautkid]

Perhaps not everyone can tolerate spending 90% of their day on a desk typing notes, putting orders, reviewing labs, consulting specialists, playing middle man between two specialties, and dealing with social work stuff.

Ophtho has a great lifestyle and extremely rewarding outcomes. Similar things can be said about ENT and Uro.

Social work stuff? and Honestly I think PA's should be responsible for all the desk work bull****. really shouldnt be our job. we work too hard to do that mid level ****. but yea I see what your saying, its more busy work.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Yes, social work stuff. a lot of it. This may depend on where you work tho. places like kaiser, physicians are insulated from this BS. the other extreme is the VA system where most of what you do there is social work. i'm not exaggerating.

If you are a pre-med, shadow a hospitalist. If you are a medical student, make sure you do enough inpatient IM rotations to see what hospital medicine really is.

This is my prospective, though. Many other people tend to like/tolerate it. To each their own. I chose neurology after all, a field that most people despise, so take my words with a big grain of salt.

 

[libertyyne]

This data is a few years older. But makes the point.
Generally speaking competitive specialties are competitive for a good reason.
Average hourly compensation of full-time neurosurgeons (1,573)
Salary/income: $332
Benefits: $66
Total compensation: $398

Average hourly compensation of full-time orthopedic surgeons (16,597)
Salary/income: $250
Benefits: $50
Total compensation: $300

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninterventional diagnostic radiologists (21,329)
Salary/income: $209
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $251

Average hourly compensation of full-time gastroenterologists (11,593)
Salary/income: $208
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $250

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninvasive cardiologists (9,616)
Salary/income: $205
Benefits: $41
Total compensation: $246

Average hourly compensation of full-time urologists (4,247)
Salary/income: $197
Benefits: $39
Total compensation: $236

Average hourly compensation of full-time dermatologists (3,071)
Salary/income: $187
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $224

Average hourly compensation of full-time anesthesiologists (24,521)
Salary/income: $183
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $220

Average hourly compensation of full-time otolaryngologists (4,832)
Salary/income: $180
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $216

Average hourly compensation of full-time hematologists (3,734)
Salary/income: $179
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $215

Average hourly compensation of full-time oncologists (2,867)
Salary/income: $170
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $204

Average hourly compensation of full-time general surgeons (14,771)
Salary/income: $169
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $203

Average hourly compensation of full-time ophthalmologists (4,542)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time pulmonologists (4,928)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time obstetricians/gynecologists (12,861)
Salary/income: $140
Benefits: $28
Total compensation: $168

Average hourly compensation of full-time nephrologists (2,973)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time emergency physicians (26,245)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time neurologists (10,125)
Salary/income: $128
Benefits: $26
Total compensation: $154

Average hourly compensation of full-time hospitalists (10,498)
Salary/income: $112
Benefits: $22
Total compensation: $134

Average hourly compensation of full-time internal medicine physicians (96,916)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time occupational medicine physicians (1,680)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time pediatricians (17,885)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time psychiatrists (24,597)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time family physicians (85,421)
Salary/income: $99
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $119

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This data is a few years older. But makes the point.
Generally speaking competitive specialties are competitive for a good reason.
Average hourly compensation of full-time neurosurgeons (1,573)
Salary/income: $332
Benefits: $66
Total compensation: $398

Average hourly compensation of full-time orthopedic surgeons (16,597)
Salary/income: $250
Benefits: $50
Total compensation: $300

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninterventional diagnostic radiologists (21,329)
Salary/income: $209
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $251

Average hourly compensation of full-time gastroenterologists (11,593)
Salary/income: $208
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $250

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninvasive cardiologists (9,616)
Salary/income: $205
Benefits: $41
Total compensation: $246

Average hourly compensation of full-time urologists (4,247)
Salary/income: $197
Benefits: $39
Total compensation: $236

Average hourly compensation of full-time dermatologists (3,071)
Salary/income: $187
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $224

Average hourly compensation of full-time anesthesiologists (24,521)
Salary/income: $183
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $220

Average hourly compensation of full-time otolaryngologists (4,832)
Salary/income: $180
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $216

Average hourly compensation of full-time hematologists (3,734)
Salary/income: $179
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $215

Average hourly compensation of full-time oncologists (2,867)
Salary/income: $170
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $204

Average hourly compensation of full-time general surgeons (14,771)
Salary/income: $169
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $203

Average hourly compensation of full-time ophthalmologists (4,542)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time pulmonologists (4,928)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time obstetricians/gynecologists (12,861)
Salary/income: $140
Benefits: $28
Total compensation: $168

Average hourly compensation of full-time nephrologists (2,973)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time emergency physicians (26,245)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time neurologists (10,125)
Salary/income: $128
Benefits: $26
Total compensation: $154

Average hourly compensation of full-time hospitalists (10,498)
Salary/income: $112
Benefits: $22
Total compensation: $134

Average hourly compensation of full-time internal medicine physicians (96,916)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time occupational medicine physicians (1,680)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time pediatricians (17,885)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time psychiatrists (24,597)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time family physicians (85,421)
Salary/income: $99
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $119

If this is how much you're making for each specialty, you have failed at negotiating a reasonable salary

 

[libertyyne]

If this is how much you're making for each specialty, you have failed at negotiating a reasonable salary

The data is from 2013.the comparisons is what I was trying to display. Also 240k for family physicians. And 800k for neurosurgeons is fairly close to what the average person would expect.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

If this is how much you're making for each specialty, you have failed at negotiating a reasonable salary

Those numbers are hourly. 398 a hour is over 800k a year if you work 2k hours (which no nuerosurgeon works that little, lol). Since I have a friend who recently changed hospitals as a hospitalists, I can say that currently 110-130 base per hour is a very common offer (not including rvu bonus or other benefits). I don't think that list is that far off.

 

[Goro]

Considering my options , I have come to the conclusion that shooting for competitive specialties (ENT/Ortho/Opto/Plastics/Gen Surg) isnt really worth it. I could make nearly as much going( maybe a little less) GAS/EM/(IM in a rural area) without taking the liability I do in surgery.

Even if im making 50-100k less in IM/EM/PM&R/Rads/GAS, there is so many risks you take on going into competitive/surgery specialties. Risk of injury to patient, risk of personal injury /debilitating injury that can put me out of using my hands effectively, and at the end of the day competitive specialities have massive malpractice insurance costs, so dont I end up losing that extra money I make, assuming Im in private practice/hospital doesnt cover it? Im assuming people going into these specialties just have an extra passion for it that makes them go that route or are just nerdy gunners ?

Worst case scenario I end up IM/FM. maybe Im capped off at maybe 300K at most i'll ever make, but my job is mostly diagnostic in nature. There is very little work done with my hands except PE, drainage, etc.. but im really getting paid to use my knowledge to diagnose/order tests/ talk to a ****ing patient. Really solid gig. Thoughts?

Gen surgery you can do....with some effort. It's more doable than the other uber ones you listed.

 

[_Rod_of_Asclepius_]

Gen surgery you can do....with some effort. It's more doable than the other uber ones you listed.

Agreed, Gen Surg is not on the same level of difficulty as the other specialties mentioned.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Those numbers are hourly. 398 a hour is over 800k a year if you work 2k hours (which no nuerosurgeon works that little, lol). Since I have a friend who recently changed hospitals as a hospitalists, I can say that currently 110-130 base per hour is a very common offer (not including rvu bonus or other benefits). I don't think that list is that far off.

Oh! Hourly would make sense

 

[allantois]

Social work stuff? and Honestly I think PA's should be responsible for all the desk work bull****. really shouldnt be our job. we work too hard to do that mid level ****. but yea I see what your saying, its more busy work.

How are they supposed to know what YOUR patients need😵

 

[libertyyne]

To Answer OPs qustion. You should do what appeals to you in medicine, even if you make 200-500k less compared to a high volume ortho, neurosurgeron, or ent . The reason is you have to like what you do, if you hate skin you would be miserable as a dermatologist and may end up taking a paycut to work for the va or something. The reason people on this board and in real life are soo gunnerish is because they dont know what they want to do , and if they end up with a 200 step and no HP 3rd year and suddenly realize ortho is what makes them happy at the end of year third they have effectively ruined their chances of getting what they want. So do well in school just to keep options open and if path or fm is what you enjoy go do that.

 

[SLC]

Perhaps not everyone can tolerate spending 90% of their day on a desk typing notes, putting orders, reviewing labs, consulting specialists, playing middle man between two specialties, and dealing with social work stuff.

Ophtho has a great lifestyle and extremely rewarding outcomes. Similar things can be said about ENT and Uro.

Thing is, I don’t spend nearly 90% of my day doing those things. Not even 30% in reality (I guess I do write and place orders during an office visit, but not once the visit has concluded).

I write notes for during encounters, and wrap them up in maybe 2-3 mins after it’s over and the patient has left. I consult specialists (meaning passing a referral) 3-4x per week on average (and I’m seeing about 50-60 encounters weekly right now). I basically never call (consult) a specialist for advice on what to do. I do lab review either in the moment for POCT testing; or for 5-10 mins in the AM for the previous day’s send-outs. My staff handles all paperwork and patient calls, and run their plans by me for sign off so those get done during the course of the day. I’m in at 8 and generally out and home by 5:30. No work to be done once home.

I spend the bulk of my time in the exam room with the patient. I also have my own radiology equipment so I spend some time reading xrays. I do a lot of procedures too. This week I work 1/2 day only and it’s almost all procedures (IUD, Alopecia Areata injection, excisional biopsy, endometrial biopsy, circumcision, and a nexplanon). Then I’m off to the hospital for 4 days of hospitalist coverage Saturday till Tuesday. Last time I was on I did a pleurocentesis, and an ultrasound guided phlegmon drainage in a dudes leg, admitted 2 and discharged 5. Put in about 18hrs of in-hospital time (the remainder being call from home) over a weekend, and got a little over $3k for it.

I get that there’s a stereotypical primary care job description that gets passed around on here. And there are plenty of docs who live up to it, but I have made sure my Job looks nothing like that. None of the folks I work with work that way either. That’s the beauty of what I do, there are a million jobs of all types out there; plenty of ability to make your work work for you!

Oh, and I make specialist level coin too.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Thing is, I don’t spend nearly 90% of my day doing those things. Not even 30% in reality.

I write notes for 2-3 mins per encounter. I consult specialists (meaning passing a referral) 3-4x per week on average (and I’m seeing about 50-60 encounters weekly. I basically never call a specialist for advice on what to do. I do lab review either in the moment for POCT testing; or for 5-10 mins in the AM for the previous day’s send-outs. My staff handles all paperwork and patient calls, and run their plans by me for sign off.

I spend the bulk of my time in the exam room. I also have my own radiology equipment so I spend time reading xrays. I do a lot of procedures too. This week I work 1/2 day only and it’s almost all procedures (IUD, Alopecia Areata injection, excisional biopsy, endometrial biopsy, circumcision, and a nexplanon). Then I’m off to the hospital for 4 days of hospitalist coverage. Last time I was on I did a pleurocentesis, and an ultrasound guided phlegmon drainage in a dudes leg.

I get that there’s a stereotypical primary care job description that gets passed around on here. And there are plenty of docs who live up to it, but I have made sure my Job looks nothing like that. None of the folks I work with work that way either. That’s the beauty of what I do, there are a million jobs of all types out there; plenty of ability to make your work work for you!

Oh, and I make specialist level coin too.

Response was more directed at IM(hospitalist).

 

[SLC]

Response was more directed at IM(hospitalist).

Ok, that makes more sense. Yes that’s a fairly apt description of hospitalist work.

My hospital gig is a little different; I’m rural so when it’s time to consult a lot of specialists, I usually just transfer them. But 90+ percent of cases we can manage on our own from admission to discharge. Some of my partners call consults a lot, but generally I try to max out my abilities then transfer if needed.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

I think there’s this misconception that doing FM/IM is low risk compared to doing surgery. It’s not that the risk is low, it’s that the risk is different. In surgery, you can have accidents and cut something unintentional, patients can react to anesthesia, or patients may simply not heal post-op as intended. Despite all that, most of the time you already have a suspected diagnosis that has been worked up or you’re aware of the difficulties that you might encounter during surgery. In medicine, you’re often responsible for working it up or knowing when to refer when it’s beyond your knowledge. If you don’t work it up properly or miss something, it might never get caught (I.e melanomas) and patients can die.

Both areas have their risks that can only be mitigated by being competent. Despite competence though, medical mistakes are supposedly the #3 cause of death in our country after heart disease and cancer. The chance of you getting sued during your career is almost a guarantee even if you do everything right. Because of this, you’re more likely to have a successful career if you do what you’re actually interested in and less what you think might be high vs low risk.

 

[Spectreman]

Does anyone know if there are Anatomy professors who also work as clinicians? All I know at this point is that I seriously love anatomy, like, a lot. I worry that I won’t be competitive for surgery because I genuinely can’t compare to my classmates in terms of intelligence/performance. Trying to convince myself that even if I can’t do something that is anatomy/dissection related then I can teach and do lab dissection on the side for the rest of my career.

Hopefully things work out and I don’t bomb my step/COMLEX, but I would love knowing a clinician can teach med school anatomy, I just have never heard of anyone doing that.

 

[libertyyne]

Does anyone know if there are Anatomy professors who also work as clinicians? All I know at this point is that I seriously love anatomy, like, a lot. I worry that I won’t be competitive for surgery because I genuinely can’t compare to my classmates in terms of intelligence/performance. Trying to convince myself that even if I can’t do something that is anatomy/dissection related then I can teach and do lab dissection on the side for the rest of my career.

Hopefully things work out and I don’t bomb my step/COMLEX, but I would love knowing a clinician can teach med school anatomy, I just have never heard of anyone doing that.

one of our professors was a retired FM doc. I wouldnt rule yourself out of surgery just yet. Try to do well in school and boards and see where you end up.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Does anyone know if there are Anatomy professors who also work as clinicians? All I know at this point is that I seriously love anatomy, like, a lot. I worry that I won’t be competitive for surgery because I genuinely can’t compare to my classmates in terms of intelligence/performance. Trying to convince myself that even if I can’t do something that is anatomy/dissection related then I can teach and do lab dissection on the side for the rest of my career.

Hopefully things work out and I don’t bomb my step/COMLEX, but I would love knowing a clinician can teach med school anatomy, I just have never heard of anyone doing that.

No one knows anatomy better than a radiologist.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does anyone know if there are Anatomy professors who also work as clinicians? All I know at this point is that I seriously love anatomy, like, a lot. I worry that I won’t be competitive for surgery because I genuinely can’t compare to my classmates in terms of intelligence/performance. Trying to convince myself that even if I can’t do something that is anatomy/dissection related then I can teach and do lab dissection on the side for the rest of my career.

Hopefully things work out and I don’t bomb my step/COMLEX, but I would love knowing a clinician can teach med school anatomy, I just have never heard of anyone doing that.

one of our professors was a retired FM doc. I wouldnt rule yourself out of surgery just yet. Try to do well in school and boards and see where you end up.

Agreed, I wouldn’t rule yourself out of surgery just yet either. I think the competitiveness for GS is overhyped on here. If you can get a mid 500s COMLEX and a 220+ you will be in decent shape for former AOA programs with a long shot at MD community programs. If you can get a 230+ then you have a better shot at former MD programs. I’ve actually been a little surprised at the competitiveness (or lack thereof) of the AOA programs, let’s just say it isn’t even in the same realm as the surgical subs.

It all comes down to your boards. GS doesn’t care about rank. It’s all boards and letters.

 

[Spectreman]

No one knows anatomy better than a radiologist.

That’s the other field that majorly appeals to me, for the anatomy specifically. That and med examiner via pathology. Would rather do gen Surge though and have the live dissection side of things, plus I worked med Surge for 4 years before finally getting into med school so I feel emotionally prepared to be elbow deep in poop and all that.

Yeah, boards though - if I can’t apply anatomy to the question I’m getting wrecked. Still time I suppose, I feel like heme is finAlly coming together and I’m getting those questions right pretty quick. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Does anyone know if there are Anatomy professors who also work as clinicians? All I know at this point is that I seriously love anatomy, like, a lot. I worry that I won’t be competitive for surgery because I genuinely can’t compare to my classmates in terms of intelligence/performance. Trying to convince myself that even if I can’t do something that is anatomy/dissection related then I can teach and do lab dissection on the side for the rest of my career.

Hopefully things work out and I don’t bomb my step/COMLEX, but I would love knowing a clinician can teach med school anatomy, I just have never heard of anyone doing that.

Pathology.

 

[Spectreman]

Pathology.

Yeah that’s my main fallback at this point. I have my autopsy experience in March, so that’ll be nice exposure to the field.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Yeah that’s my main fallback at this point. I have my autopsy experience in March, so that’ll be nice exposure to the field.

I saw the Rads up there, and it is anatomy, but honestly, imaging anatomy is different than real anatomy (like a anatomy lab). More than once when I was in surgery we ended up taking patients back based on symptoms when rads said the case was marginal, and they would have a huge stone in thier gallbladder or something like that. I think if MGA was your jam, path is the way. Plus you have a big role in the preclinical curriculum.

 

[labtech312]

This data is a few years older. But makes the point.
Generally speaking competitive specialties are competitive for a good reason.
Average hourly compensation of full-time neurosurgeons (1,573)
Salary/income: $332
Benefits: $66
Total compensation: $398

Average hourly compensation of full-time orthopedic surgeons (16,597)
Salary/income: $250
Benefits: $50
Total compensation: $300

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninterventional diagnostic radiologists (21,329)
Salary/income: $209
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $251

Average hourly compensation of full-time gastroenterologists (11,593)
Salary/income: $208
Benefits: $42
Total compensation: $250

Average hourly compensation of full-time noninvasive cardiologists (9,616)
Salary/income: $205
Benefits: $41
Total compensation: $246

Average hourly compensation of full-time urologists (4,247)
Salary/income: $197
Benefits: $39
Total compensation: $236

Average hourly compensation of full-time dermatologists (3,071)
Salary/income: $187
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $224

Average hourly compensation of full-time anesthesiologists (24,521)
Salary/income: $183
Benefits: $37
Total compensation: $220

Average hourly compensation of full-time otolaryngologists (4,832)
Salary/income: $180
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $216

Average hourly compensation of full-time hematologists (3,734)
Salary/income: $179
Benefits: $36
Total compensation: $215

Average hourly compensation of full-time oncologists (2,867)
Salary/income: $170
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $204

Average hourly compensation of full-time general surgeons (14,771)
Salary/income: $169
Benefits: $34
Total compensation: $203

Average hourly compensation of full-time ophthalmologists (4,542)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time pulmonologists (4,928)
Salary/income: $149
Benefits: $30
Total compensation: $179

Average hourly compensation of full-time obstetricians/gynecologists (12,861)
Salary/income: $140
Benefits: $28
Total compensation: $168

Average hourly compensation of full-time nephrologists (2,973)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time emergency physicians (26,245)
Salary/income: $133
Benefits: $27
Total compensation: $160

Average hourly compensation of full-time neurologists (10,125)
Salary/income: $128
Benefits: $26
Total compensation: $154

Average hourly compensation of full-time hospitalists (10,498)
Salary/income: $112
Benefits: $22
Total compensation: $134

Average hourly compensation of full-time internal medicine physicians (96,916)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time occupational medicine physicians (1,680)
Salary/income: $106
Benefits: $21
Total compensation: $127

Average hourly compensation of full-time pediatricians (17,885)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time psychiatrists (24,597)
Salary/income: $101
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $121

Average hourly compensation of full-time family physicians (85,421)
Salary/income: $99
Benefits: $20
Total compensation: $119

I know that pathologists make a little over 300K a year. Why do you guys think not as many people go into pathology?

 

[libertyyne]

I know that pathologists make a little over 300K a year. Why do you guys think not as many people go into pathology?

resideny length is 4 years, and in the current job market you kinda need a fellowship so tack on one or two years . So for 5-6 years of training you are going to make 300 k, the dude who went into IM for 3 years has already been making that for over 2 years at that point. job market is compared to IM where you can get a job any day of the week, and a lot of people never quite think of it as the medicine they were interested in when they got to medical school. Another thing that might be hindering interest is possible AI disruption in the field.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Nowadays, fellowship is mandatory in both radiology and pathology. In pathology you may need to do multiple fellowships.

 

[labtech312]

Ya I work with a lot of pathologist and many of them do two coupled fellowships. Some did pediatric pathology and hematopathology fellowships, others did breast pathology and OB/GYN pathology. So in reality you are doing four years of residency and two years of fellowship for a 300K salary. But I would say that the quality of life for pathology is pretty high. There is only one condition in the lab that we need the pathology resident here ASAP and it happens maybe once or twice a year. Then once you are an attending the residents work up many of your cases and then you review them for errors and sign them off. So pathology doesn't sound too bad.

Compare that to three year IM residency and then a three year hematology/oncology fellowship where you can be called into the hospital on a whim for any new leukemia that comes into the hospital, yet still make around the same amount of money.

 

[labtech312]

resideny length is 4 years, and in the current job market you kinda need a fellowship so tack on one or two years . So for 5-6 years of training you are going to make 300 k, the dude who went into IM for 3 years has already been making that for over 2 years at that point. job market is compared to IM where you can get a job any day of the week, and a lot of people never quite think of it as the medicine they were interested in when they got to medical school. Another thing that might be hindering interest is possible AI disruption in the field.

You do have a really good point about AI too, machines can tell which bug is growing in your plural culture just by shooting lasers at it. So its not too far fetched to say that something like IBM's Watson could be looking at your breast or blood slides.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

You do have a really good point about AI too, machines can tell which bug is growing in your plural culture just by shooting lasers at it. So its not too far fetched to say that something like IBM's Watson could be looking at your breast or blood slides.

If my competition is buggy 'AI' vs a NP who says they can do everything I can with 500 hours of training, give me the PC every time.

 

[Peach Newport]

I very, very heavily doubt AI will be interpreting path slides or doing autopsies anytime soon. AI can’t even read an EKG well enough to tell a physiologic heart rate acceleration from a sinus arrhythmia, I highly doubt we’re going to stumble on the perfect algorithm to distinguish dense heterochromatin from orphan Annie eyes.

 

[alprazoslam]

I was walking into the clinic today and this PC just rolled in the elevator and and kicked me in the nuts with its keyboard then went on to see all the patients

Nobody is safe

 

[Moose A Moose]

Considering my options , I have come to the conclusion that shooting for competitive specialties (ENT/Ortho/Opto/Plastics/Gen Surg) isnt really worth it. I could make nearly as much going( maybe a little less) GAS/EM/(IM in a rural area) without taking the liability I do in surgery.

Even if im making 50-100k less in IM/EM/PM&R/Rads/GAS, there is so many risks you take on going into competitive/surgery specialties. Risk of injury to patient, risk of personal injury /debilitating injury that can put me out of using my hands effectively, and at the end of the day competitive specialities have massive malpractice insurance costs, so dont I end up losing that extra money I make, assuming Im in private practice/hospital doesnt cover it? Im assuming people going into these specialties just have an extra passion for it that makes them go that route or are just nerdy gunners ?

Worst case scenario I end up IM/FM. maybe Im capped off at maybe 300K at most i'll ever make, but my job is mostly diagnostic in nature. There is very little work done with my hands except PE, drainage, etc.. but im really getting paid to use my knowledge to diagnose/order tests/ talk to a ****ing patient. Really solid gig. Thoughts?

My thoughts: whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I was walking into the clinic today and this PC just rolled in the elevator and and kicked me in the nuts with its keyboard then went on to see all the patients

Nobody is safe

If it will write my notes for me I might just be for AI. But we all know it won't 'be able to do that' when the rep comes... Just a bunch of useless nonsense.