Competitiveness Vs Cooperation

[cows_go_moo]

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A question for those of you in vet school now, or anyone who knows about class dynamics in different programs….

I understand that a lot of this depends on the people in the class, but I was wondering what people know about the level of cooperation and competitiveness at different schools.

For example, I know from personal experience (attending classes and from friends there) that Western fosters a very cooperative environment. To quote a current first year… “we have to cooperate, the way this program is set up, there is no way we could get through it all if we didn’t.” Is this “vet school family” phenomenon limited to or stronger at majority PBL schools?

I’ve been told that some classes at UC Davis are more competitive than others, but that overall, the students are mostly cooperative. However, the undergraduate program at Davis is highly competitive (or so I’ve been told), so I’m a little skeptical that their graduate programs would not be. Can anyone speak to this? Do the powers that be at UC Davis foster a competitive atmosphere between veterinary students?

What about schools like Tufts that have both PBL and didactic learning styles? Does it make a difference?

Obviously, veterinary school is not going to be easy, but hey, WE MADE IT 😀 and we’re all in the boat together, so why not be more cooperative than competitive? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[chickenboo]

I have some insight to how the situation is at Davis, since my boyfriend is a second-year there. From what he says (and what I've heard from a lot of his classmates as well), it totally depends on the class. His class is pretty competitive...or at least, a few people who are very competitive and total gunners kind of ruin it for everyone else (i.e. protesting about curving grades if a lot of ppl did badly but they did well, requesting of profs that tests be made harder...really stupid stuff). On the other hand, the first-years and third-years are supposed to be great classes that have more a sense of class unity and spirit, and try to help each other out more. The class of 2007, for example, posted a bunch of study guides on their class website so everyone can use them.

I think that the "powers that be" at Davis are trying to avoid the competitiveness and trying to foster more of a team mentality. We're all going to be colleagues, after all! I think that's why they started having these orientations (class of 2009 was the first time it was mandatory) with the ropes courses and things--so that we can get to know each other outside of school first, and not get to know each other when we start "competing" with each other after school starts.

I did my undergrad at Davis as well...I think it depends on the program. The programs I was in (animal science, and then genetics) were pretty competitive because they were chock-full of pre-vets, pre-meds, and pre-PhD students. I think any time you have a bunch of people all striving for the same goal, you're going to have a competitive atmosphere. Unfortunate, but true. Also, when you start out in these programs, you're in lecture halls with 300 other students...by the time you get to your senior year, maybe 2/3 of those have been weeded out just from the major. So it is fairly competitive for that reason too, besides just all wanting to get into the same types of post-bacc programs.

 

[mokadet]

What I've heard really mirrors what chickenboo said, it really depends on the class. At VA-MD the class of 2009 is uber-competative to the point that my friend that is down there says she doesn't even get along with her classmates outside of class. However, she says that the class of 2008 is completely different and everyone is very cooperative. I talked to two girls in the class of 2008 before my interview and they said the same thing.

(I'm hoping that if I get in the competativeness skips years and the class of 2010 will rock!)

 

[wishes]

In visiting schools during the interview process this year, my overwhelming impression has been that most schools foster a cooperative atmosphere. Some schools, such as Colorado State University, are on a pass/fail system during the first two years and I expect that this would dramatically curb competitiveness.
Unfortunately, I still think that veterinary schools have the (necessary) handicap of admitting academically successful people, many of which tend to be very competitive by nature, so I suppose that could make for a difficult transition into a more cooperative atmosphere from undergraduate to graduate, especially with the possibility of internships and residencies on the line later down the road.
As far as differences in schools that have a high percentage of PBL, one would certainly hope that students working in small groups would quickly learn that working together with each other as much as possible is ultimately going to be more productive for everyone.
To my knowledge, the only schools that are heavily PBL based are Cornell and Western. I had also thought that Tufts had a PBL based curriculum, but upon visiting the schools I discovered there is only one PBL class. I believe it met in the evening something like twice a week at least during part of the first year, but someone please correct me if I am mistaken about any of this.
I can say that I have met alot of really friendly, fun, down to earth, veterinarians so here's to hoping that we all come out of vet school that way!!

 

[HorseyVet]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue
Unfortunately, I still think that veterinary schools have the (necessary) handicap of admitting academically successful people, many of which tend to be very competitive by nature, so I suppose that could make for a difficult transition into a more cooperative atmosphere from undergraduate to graduate, especially with the possibility of internships and residencies on the line later down the road.
[/COLOR]

This is actually a well documented problem in human med schools. It's to the point that many schools now have "togetherness" courses and activities to try to train people to work together and make nice.

 

[verbal_kint]

one thing I heard about p/np systems is that they still rank you. anyone know if this is true? wouldn't this defeat the purpose?

 

[chickenboo]

one thing I heard about p/np systems is that they still rank you. anyone know if this is true? wouldn't this defeat the purpose?

I've heard this is true too. Although it seems contradictory, I think they do it for internships/residencies, so that places have a way to "objectively" (yeah right!) compare you to others in your class.

 

[chris03333]

one thing I heard about p/np systems is that they still rank you. anyone know if this is true? wouldn't this defeat the purpose?

I know it is true for colorado (I just did an externship with a few CSU students).

Some people like it that way. I would not want that (especially because you could have really good grades but still rank low in vet school)

 

[HorseyVet]

I think ranking is fairly meaningless in general for classes of small numbers. My highschool refused to rank b/c there were less than 60 ppl/class so rank really was dumb....especially when you have 10+ with GPAs higher than a 4.0.

My hope is that for residencies/interships recommendations mean a little more. If someone is considering owning another's soul for 3-4 years they probably should care what kind it is.

 

[chickenboo]

My hope is that for residencies/interships recommendations mean a little more. If someone is considering owning another's soul for 3-4 years they probably should care what kind it is.

Definitely. I'm by no means an expert in the area, but I have done some research into the internship and residency path. I've heard from a faculty member (in his opinion) that the top 3 things internships are looking for are 1) if they've met/liked you, 2) your letters of rec 3) your letter of intent. So while grades/ranking are certainly considered, especially for highly competitive internships, they're also not the first nor the most important things they look at. After all, they want someone they can actually get along with, and, of course, teach!