Confusing Match Day Result Messages!?!?

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I’m a DO applying for Categorical and Advanced programs. I was planning on ranking the Advanced programs without any prelim supplementary lists because my prelim programs I received interviews at were all over the country, and I figured I could just try and scramble for a prelim IM or a DO traditional rotating internship year near the city where the advanced program is, if I were to match at one. However I just read on the NMRP website that if I were to do that, and match at the advanced spot, the results would say..
1. Congratulations, you have matched!
Applicants who listed only advanced programs on their certified rank order lists and did not list any preliminary positions on a supplemental rank order list will receive this message. Applicants who receive this message will not have access to the Dynamic List of Unfilled Programs that is posted on Tuesday of Match Week.

SO...If it said this, I wouldn’t even know if I matched to a categorical or advanced program. My question is, should I just list a Prelim IM program that I DIDN’T interview at or even apply to as a supplementary program so I could get access to the list of unfilled programs and know that I matched at an advanced program?? And I guess I wouldn’t even know what city the advanced program is at that I matched at anyways, ha? Am I interpreting this correctly?

 

[thedrjojo]

from what I have heard, if you match an advanced place but not a prelim you can find out what city it is to facilitate scrambling... as for ranking prelim place where you didn't interview at, pretty smart... you can also make a different prelim list for each advanced, so if you did prelim interviews near any of your top picks (for example, if Program A was in chicago, you could rank only the chicago prelims you interviewed at, and if program B is in NY, you could make a separate list and only list prelims you interviewed at near NY, etc etc etc) I don't know if there is a limit to the number of supplimental lists you can make...

 

[SoCuteMD]

"Planning" to scramble sounds like a REALLY dumb idea to me. There were VERY few prelim spots left open last year in the allo match. In addition I would think the DO spots will likely be pretty picked over by the time the allo match takes place, but honestly that's just a guess.

 

[peppy]

Yeah, I really advise against scrambling if you can at all avoid it. It'll be very stressful and you most likely won't have the luxury of getting to be picky about where you scramble into. It's more likely that you will wind up having to agonize over whether to accept an offer you're not enthusiastic about vs. holding out for something better but then risking not getting anything at all. You're far more likely to be happy if you rank the choices you have open to you as it is.

 

[psyched7]

This post is really confusing to me. Why interview at prelim programs "all over the country" if you're not going to rank any of them? The ranking system is set up so that you can make different supplemental lists for each of your advanced programs, so that you can hopefully match into a prelim and advanced that are geographically near each other. I guess I don't get your rationale at all.

 

[autopilot]

I am trying to do all 4 years in the same city. I received prelim IM interview invitations at cities that weren’t close to the same city as the advanced programs that I received interviews for. Therefore I did not attend those prelim IM interviews. I didn’t interview at any prelim IM programs in the same city as the advanced programs. However, there are osteopathic traditional rotating internships in those cities.

What I’m trying to say is, there is no way I will match into an advanced program with a prelim IM program in the same city. I am not going to rank any supplementary lists for the advanced programs then, but my question is, if I do that, will I not have access to the list of unfilled programs? I understand that most prelim IM and transitional spots get filled, but if for some reason it doesn’t get filled in the same city as the advanced spot I match into, I’d like to be able to have access to it. If that doesn’t work then I can go after the traditional rotating spots. And when would I know what city I matched at for the advanced program?

“Applicants who listed only advanced programs on their certified rank order lists and did not list any preliminary positions on a supplemental rank order list will receive this message. Applicants who receive this message will not have access to the Dynamic List of Unfilled Programs that is posted on Tuesday of Match Week”

 

[tacrum43]

I am trying to do all 4 years in the same city. I received prelim IM interview invitations at cities that weren’t close to the same city as the advanced programs that I received interviews for. Therefore I did not attend those prelim IM interviews. I didn’t interview at any prelim IM programs in the same city as the advanced programs. However, there are osteopathic traditional rotating internships in those cities.

What I’m trying to say is, there is no way I will match into an advanced program with a prelim IM program in the same city. I am not going to rank any supplementary lists for the advanced programs then, but my question is, if I do that, will I not have access to the list of unfilled programs? I understand that most prelim IM and transitional spots get filled, but if for some reason it doesn’t get filled in the same city as the advanced spot I match into, I’d like to be able to have access to it. If that doesn’t work then I can go after the traditional rotating spots. And when would I know what city I matched at for the advanced program?

“Applicants who listed only advanced programs on their certified rank order lists and did not list any preliminary positions on a supplemental rank order list will receive this message. Applicants who receive this message will not have access to the Dynamic List of Unfilled Programs that is posted on Tuesday of Match Week”

That is extremely risky to not list prelim programs just because you want a spot in the same city for all 4 years. There's no guarantee of getting a scramble spot anywhere, let alone in a specific city. Plus, you don't even know which city the advanced spot will be in yet. You should talk to one of the Deans at your school before you try to pull something like this, IMHO.

 

[Law2Doc]

I am trying to do all 4 years in the same city. I received prelim IM interview invitations at cities that weren't close to the same city as the advanced programs that I received interviews for. Therefore I did not attend those prelim IM interviews. I didn't interview at any prelim IM programs in the same city as the advanced programs. However, there are osteopathic traditional rotating internships in those cities.

What I'm trying to say is, there is no way I will match into an advanced program with a prelim IM program in the same city. I am not going to rank any supplementary lists for the advanced programs then, but my question is, if I do that, will I not have access to the list of unfilled programs? I understand that most prelim IM and transitional spots get filled, but if for some reason it doesn't get filled in the same city as the advanced spot I match into, I'd like to be able to have access to it. If that doesn't work then I can go after the traditional rotating spots. And when would I know what city I matched at for the advanced program?

"Applicants who listed only advanced programs on their certified rank order lists and did not list any preliminary positions on a supplemental rank order list will receive this message. Applicants who receive this message will not have access to the Dynamic List of Unfilled Programs that is posted on Tuesday of Match Week"

First, you'd better be sure these "traditional rotating spots" count for the advanced program -- I know for certain that they wouldn't in the ones I'm most familiar with. Second, putting yourself at the mercy of the scramble was foolish. I get that you didn't get the interviews you wanted in your desired location, but when scrambling, you probably will end up not having a better shot at that location either. The scramble spots are things that couldn't get filled in the match. Meaning most were not selected for a reason. It's sort of like not asking a girl out for the prom, but instead waiting until the day before to see who didn't get asked. Sure a gem can slip through now and then, but very frequently those that are left out were overlooked for a reason. You will find that many of the things available come scramble time, tend to be malignant prelim surgery slots in undesirable parts of the country. The better things will get taken off the table within hours of the scramble starting, often thanks to well targeted faculty calls to private lines -- not really something you can compete with. The odds of getting what you want in the scramble is not good. That's all there is to it. You will still end up having to go out of your desired location, but now it won't be you calling the shots, you simply will have to go where there is a spot. Meaning, maybe not IM, maybe not in a desirable location, maybe very malignant.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Perhaps it doesn't need to be said, but if you aren't able to scramble into a Prelim position (a possibilty), you will most likely lose any Advanced position you are offered.

Pretty risky move, IMHO, especially for the reasons given.

 

[guv_garfunkel]

I would be dang sure that those traditional rotating osteo spots will count as a prelim. program before anything else. You ought to call all the Advanced programs you're interviewing at and be sure that they'll count. Most traditional rotating internships don't really fill during the osteopathic match so if those will count, you'll always have that back up.
I also echo that getting a prelim IM spot in the scramble is a risky move for the reasons your indicating. What are the chances that one of those spots in the cities your trying to get the advanced program will be left open in the match and what are the chances that you'll be able to get that spot in the scramble? There's just too many variables for that to be a very good plan.
Plus, it sounds like you won't even have access to the scramble information if you match to an advanced program. I would call NRMP and talk to them before I went with anyone's opinion on SDN.
If you find out your going to try to scramble to a prelim spot I would get on NRMP and see how those prelim. programs your hoping to scramble into did with filling in the match. At least then you'll know your chances of getting one of them in the scramble.
Good luck.

 

[peppy]

Also keep in mind that the DO match is over already and the scramble for DO spots is going on right now. By the time the MD match results are in, many of the best trad rotating internship spots from the DO scramble may already be spoken for. (But if you are absolutely certain that you can use a DO internship for your needed purposes, then maybe that's a good reason to start calling DO internships right now!)

 

[tkim]

Avail internship spots as of 2/18:

Broward General Medical Center Internship 2
Valley Hospital Internship 7 N/A N/A N/A
Largo Medical Center Internship 9 N/A N/A 727-586-7103
Good Samartian Hospital Internship 4
Long Beach Medical Center Internship 8
Maimonides Medical Center Internship 4
Nassau University Medical Center Internship 6
Peconic Bay Medical Center Internship 8
Plainview Hospital Internship 10
Peninsula Hospital Center Internship 6
Southampton Hospital Internship 3
Ellis Hospital Internship 4
Sisters of Charity Hospital Internship 1
St. Barnabas Hospital Internship 1

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Seventy-four avail for the entire country. And this number is sure to shrink as allo match approaches ...

I would check these links, daily:

https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_match10res

https://www.do-online.org/pdf/sir_2010OGMESlots.xls

Good luck.

 

[Gastrapathy]

At this point, you should still try to match in a prelim year. Call the programs and explain that your life situation kept you from interviewing but things have changed (or some such vague excuse). Ask if they would consider still interviewing you and let them know that you'll be ranking them regardless.

Then, when you don't match, be ready to scramble. I have no idea if your board will accept an osteopathic internship. Find that out fast and, if so, get going on that list above.

This is a really bad play. Fix it.

 

[thedrjojo]

it also seems wise to list all of the categorical programs above all the advanced programs instead of by location alone (ie, 1) Prog A Cat, 2) Prog B Cat, 3) Prog C Cat, 4) Prog D Cat, 5) Prog A Adv, 6) Prog B Adv, 7) Prog C Adv, 8) Prog D Adv instead of 1) Prog A Cat, 2) Prog A Adv, 3) Prog B Cat, 4) Prog B Adv, etc...)

and I agree that you should list dummy prelim places if nothing else to give you access to the list, ie gaming the system

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree with all the above advice.
Definitely call NRMP and talk to someone. Definitely talk to the administrators at your school who do the advising for the Match.
DEFINITELY try to find a spot before you have to scramble. You don't want to have to scramble...and you could lose your advanced spot if you can't find a suitable prelim spot at that time. You should start looking for suitable prelim spots now...do what gastrapathy says...see if there are places still interviewing or that are afraid they won't fill and are able to give you a spot outside the match (? are there places that do this). Osteo internship might be an option but as noted above, you need to make 100% sure that your allopathic advanced programs would accept it.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I really don't know if this has been expressed strongly enough on this thread, so I'll give it a shot:

OP - this is a HORRIBLE plan. You risk losing everything because of your desire to stay in one place for four years.

The scramble has been getting tougher and tougher. You might not even successfully scramble into any prelim spot, much less one in the city you want to be in.

 

[shift_roro]

Is this a common DO strategy? Because I have heard about this seemingly unwise plan from several DO's...

 

[peppy]

I think one problem is that the match is changing. Now that there are more applicants competing for the same number of spots, the scramble is even more risky for applicants than it used to be. I think some applicants are not aware of that yet and think that they can count on getting something in the scramble because in past years that was easier to do.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think one problem is that the match is changing. Now that there are more applicants competing for the same number of spots, the scramble is even more risky for applicants than it used to be. I think some applicants are not aware of that yet and think that they can count on getting something in the scramble because in past years that was easier to do.

Most likely their faculty is also not aware of it and gives bad advice. Students should always look to multiple sources for information before making such life changing decisions.

 

[lilzelda2]

Avail internship spots as of 2/18:

Broward General Medical Center Internship 2
Valley Hospital Internship 7 N/A N/A N/A
Largo Medical Center Internship 9 N/A N/A 727-586-7103
Good Samartian Hospital Internship 4
Long Beach Medical Center Internship 8
Maimonides Medical Center Internship 4
Nassau University Medical Center Internship 6
Peconic Bay Medical Center Internship 8
Plainview Hospital Internship 10
Peninsula Hospital Center Internship 6
Southampton Hospital Internship 3
Ellis Hospital Internship 4
Sisters of Charity Hospital Internship 1
St. Barnabas Hospital Internship 1

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Seventy-four avail for the entire country. And this number is sure to shrink as allo match approaches ...

I would check these links, daily:

https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_match10res

https://www.do-online.org/pdf/sir_2010OGMESlots.xls

Good luck.

Where did you get 74? There is 379 open osteo. traditional rotating internship. You have to sign on to get the complete list.

I was also told by my school that getting an internship in the osteopathic world isn't hard, since most remain open. This year just in my school's network 40 spots were available in September, they didn't fill year prior. If you want to get an prelim med spot in the allo match then thats going to be tough.

 

[tkim]

Where did you get 74? There is 379 open osteo. traditional rotating internship. You have to sign on to get the complete list.

I was also told by my school that getting an internship in the osteopathic world isn't hard, since most remain open. This year just in my school's network 40 spots were available in September, they didn't fill year prior. If you want to get an prelim med spot in the allo match then thats going to be tough.

I got it from the link - the one you quoted ...

 

[lilzelda2]

The list has only Nova and NYCOM internships.

 

[tkim]

The list has only Nova and NYCOM internships.

Well that's more encouraging, though I wonder why do-online would only list those as avail. Whatever.