Considering Postbac?

[Spikebd]

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Hello SDN,

I am new here and this is my first post.

My story goes like this. I am a senior graduating this year. I am majoring in business. I have a 3.1 uGPA, but have gotten 3.4, 3.45, and a 3.6 gpa the last semesters. Maturity is starting to kick in late for me, I suppose. I never really considered medicine until lately(my dad is an orthopedic surgeon and I wanted to blaze my own trial), and now I am just trying to gather more information. I have a job for the next year, so I have time to be patient while discerning my future.

My first question is, what postbac programs are best for those with no science background? (Columbia, Tufts, HEC?) Next, if I succeed in those programs what are the chances that medical schools would consider an applicant with that low of an uGPA? Would good postbac work + good MCAT scores be good enough for someone like me to be competitive at most medical schools? Or with that GPA is it impossible. A related question, what chances to successful postbac students have of getting into top tier medical schools?

I apologize if my post is answered on other threads, but I figured I could get the best responses to my specific questions by just asking them. I am still fairly young, 21, and a postbac is my only avenue to medical school.

 

[EJS1979]

Congrats on graduating!! Let me start by saying that your story sounds very similar to those of several of my postbac classmates -- resistant to follow the path of a physician parent, but realizing eventually that that was your path too, so you're definitely not alone in your thinking.

The premed postbac programs that are generally considered the "best" are Goucher, Bryn Mawr, and Scripps (in no particular order), with Johns Hopkins really getting up there too. There are a number of programs that people often put in the next group, including HES, Penn, and Tufts, but I don't really know anything about them, so I don't want to give you false info.

Words of advice that you will see in other posts:
1) Start volunteering and/or shadowing in some sort of medical setting now if you haven't already.
2) Have a very clear reason for why you are choosing to pursue a career in medicine and why you believe it is right for you.
3) Apply early.

I'm just finishing the Goucher program and am happy to answer any questions -- feel free to PM me. Good luck!

 

[EJS1979]

Sorry -- I forgot to address your question about getting into med school. A lot of med schools have average GPAs around 3.6-3.7, so your undergrad grades might not be the best thing you have going for you, but it's not impossible and your postbac grades can improve your GPA (and help you achieve a strong MCAT score). Plus, there are a lot of med schools that appreciate non-traditional students. The schools I listed in my last post have virtually 100% acceptance rates into medical schools, so take things one step at a time.

 

[321616]

Thanks for your question. I'm in the same boat. I'm applying this term to medical school, but am thinking of doing one of these programs (probably at Barry). If anyone knows, how beneficial are these programs to future acceptance into med school (considering you do well in the program)? I ask because on one hand, these programs seem very geard towards premed students so I would like to think it helps. Yet on the other-side, it seems these programs have poped up everywhere and considering you are not faced with a much better probability of getting accepted after completing the program, it can seem like a masters in this program might end up being a dead end.

[also for a followup question: how does the Caribbean option compare to these programs in terms of practicality]

Thanks in advance to whomever responds - I face a very rocky road now that I'm a graduate -hope this post can help others too

 

[jslo85]

Thanks for your question. I'm in the same boat. I'm applying this term to medical school, but am thinking of doing one of these programs (probably at Barry). If anyone knows, how beneficial are these programs to future acceptance into med school (considering you do well in the program)? I ask because on one hand, these programs seem very geard towards premed students so I would like to think it helps. Yet on the other-side, it seems these programs have poped up everywhere and considering you are not faced with a much better probability of getting accepted after completing the program, it can seem like a masters in this program might end up being a dead end.

[also for a followup question: how does the Caribbean option compare to these programs in terms of practicality]

Thanks in advance to whomever responds - I face a very rocky road now that I'm a graduate -hope this post can help others too

For future reference, please post in the correct thread regarding your question or create your own topic for your own situation.

These "programs" are Special Masters Programs (SMP) which allow individuals to undertake a rigorous regiment of coursework that are either medical school courses themselves or medical school equivalent to demonstrate academic competence for your application.

They do confer the "Masters" degree but it is generally regarded by many as having no other purpose other than to get students into their respective professional school rather than being a midway point (traditional Masters) on the route to achieving a PhD.

They do not guarantee or ensure acceptance into medical school after completion but provided you do well, they are a compelling argument in your favor if your uGPA is troubled or in question. Yes they are expensive and risky but if medical school is your goal and you have run out of other options, it is a gamble that many before you have chosen to take and it has profited them.

You are right that these programs "pop up eerywhere" recently so you need to do plenty of research on which programs are the best to apply to for your particular situation and whether this said program will be conducive to getting you into the medical/dental school that you are interested in. There are many different SMPs each with their own pros and cons and differing levels of reputation so choose wisely.

As for the Caribbean question that is subjective. I have seen Ross/SGU/AUC accept many applicants whose stats have barred them from any direct acceptances into US medical schools. It would allow them to start medical school in the Caribbean immediately as opposed to doing a 1-2 year SMP but you have to understand the risks of a Caribbean education as well. SGU accepts a giant number of 1st year medical students only to fail and kick out a substantial number. Not to mention students coming out from Caribbean schools are up against such steep competition to match into residencies that it would be realistic to not expect yourself to get into the residency of your choosing provided you aren't at the top of your class with excellent board scores. Financially SGU is expensive as well and it is my personal experience in talking with my physician mentors that if you can stay within US borders, that would be a better option than venturing to the Caribbean.

Barry University offers two options for their MBS. The option 1 accelerated 1 year MBS track (44 students) and the 2 year track which accepts a larger amount (I'm not exactly sure). Seeing previous posts about Barry from previous MBS students, it would only be worth it to enter the 1 year accelerated track. Also know that Barry's sphere of influence is primarily around the SE part of the nation, namely NSU, USF, LECOM-B and PCOM-GA. They do not have their own medical or dental school and a substantial # of your professors in classes will be from other institutions and may or may not be very motivated in teaching the students since it is a side job. The tuition is expensive and I personally would advise you to look elsewhere if you have other options, especially since NSU has its own MBS program as does PCOM-GA and USF has it's own program. But for what its worth Barry claims it has a 70-80% professional school acceptance after completing their program and has a confirmed unofficial linkage with NSU where Nova accepts 10-11 of their students into dental and medical school each where BarryU's program is regarded highly.

As with any "SMP" type program, no matter the linkages or connections, the most important basis is how well you do. Ace the program and obtain stellar LOR and I have few doubts that you will find success somewhere that recognizes your hard work in said rigorous program.

 

[NewmansOwn]

EJS1979's post is excellent. I would only add that your chances of admission to one of the top programs (Bryn Mawr, Goucher or Scripps) are slim given your GPA. You can help yourself by doing tons of medically-related volunteer work over the next year, accumulating great LORs and working on an inspired personal statement. Are your SATs and/or GREs any good?

Doing well in the prereqs and on the MCAT constitutes a good portion of what it takes to get into a top medical school, but by no means is this the end all, be all. Most successful applicants have plenty of extracurricular work, many have research under their belts, quite a few have unique personal stories/backgrounds and all have high cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores.

 

[Spikebd]

Ok, so I would probably have to convince one of the top flight programs that I am worthy of a spot. I think if I can demonstrate commitment then I would be taken more seriously.
Academically I have some work to do as well. Would there be any standardized test that I could take to show them I am worthy? Like an LSAT? I know it is totally unrelated, but high performance on one could demonstrate intellectual capacity. My SAT scores were underwhelming, 650 V 630 M. So nothing special. But I do feel I have been humbled and want to dedicate myself to this

 

[deleted248403]

An LSAT would be useless.

A GRE might help but your SAT scores aren't helping

*edit - a 3.1 cGPA is what is holding you back and clearly you can't do much about that at this point; only way you could go truly top tier is rocking the GRE, but just not sure its worth the time/effort/money to still be a relatively fringe candidate from the stats someone (drizzt i think?) posted about top tier postbacs*

 

[Spikebd]

So it would be a better idea for me to attend an easier program to gain acceptance to, like HES or something similar? Then just work hard and do well in science classes, maybe a math class to help further provide evidence of commitment? Then work hard on the MCAT and see from there? Plus I should volunteer for some good health related positions.

 

[jslo85]

It's not so much of a "better idea" than your only realistic option if you wish to attend formal programs.

BM, Scripps and Goucher have competitive applicants with far higher stats than you and your SAT isn't doing you any favors. Acing the GRE would possibly give you a look but that's all hypothesizing since you haven't taken it yet and your history of standardized tests isn't stellar to put it in a nice way. Drizzt is a candidate who came in with fringe stats for GPA but his test scores were outstanding and he self admits that he was lucky that he was accepted into a top notch program like Scripps because they were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on him having the full package otherwise.

If you want a formal program, you're looking at HES, SFSU, possibly Mills though I think they accept higher stat candidates as well, UT Dallas and possibly some other formal programs like WashU St. Louis or possibly USC. We bring up HES often on SDN because it's a very affordable program in an environment that has many clinical opportunities that a pre-med could take advantage of in Boston. It also offers sponsorship and has a good track record of sending pre-meds into medical school. Bottom line as always is how well you personally do because even the top notch programs can't help you if you don't deserve it yourself.

 

[Spikebd]

I agree, I haven't really set the world on fire thus far. I have just been middling.

I think I will take this route... I will work for a year, volunteer my time at a hospital or clinic, send out some applications to schools like USC, HES, SFSU, UT Dallas, and save some money. Then judging by the responses, decide if I can commit to the program.

 

[betterlate]

I agree, I haven't really set the world on fire thus far. I have just been middling.

I think I will take this route... I will work for a year, volunteer my time at a hospital or clinic, send out some applications to schools like USC, HES, SFSU, UT Dallas, and save some money. Then judging by the responses, decide if I can commit to the program.

I'm a current student @ Goucher, as well. Goucher (and the other top formal postbacc programs) does look for relatively high stats in their applicants, in part as evidence of our ability to succeed in an academically challenging environment. That said, we do not all have 4.0 + exceptionally high GREs. Goucher does look at the whole package when they are evaluating applications and interviewing potential students. They *will* overlook low grades in some cases.

If you feel like there is one part of your application that is particularly weak (your GPA, in this case), then you need to make sure the rest of your application really shines. That means having a stellar personal statement, glowing letters of recommendation, and good scores on a recent standardized test. (I submitted scores for both the LSAT & the GRE, for example, since I either never took the SAT or lost that grade report a million years ago.)

I can't stress enough how important it is to be able to clearly articulate your reason for wanting to go into medicine. That will go a long way towards getting you into a formal postbacc and later into medical school.

I'll also repeat something EJS said above: apply early. Really early. This will improve your statistical likelihood of getting an interview, and in the interview you'll have a chance to explain why your shaky GPA is not a true reflection of your abilities.

Having said all that, I think it is *definitely* possible to succeed by going the route of an informal postbacc program. Do your best to get all As, and do whatever it takes to ensure a good MCAT score, and you'll be well served wherever you take your classes. Good luck!

 

[kf2156]

Hi Spikebd-it sounds like you have gotten some great advice here (especially regarding specific schools and volunteering). I just wanted to add my thoughts-

There are a variety of Postbac programs designed for students with little or no science background. I am currently in the Columbia program and am really happy with my experience here. If you are concerned about your GPA and applying to programs, I know a lot of the program websites list their GPA minimums and, if not, you might be able to contact the admissions offices for stats on the incoming class to get an idea of where you would stand.

Depending on the medical school, I think you would still have a chance despite your undergraduate GPA. Postbacs bring a lot to their applications besides grades- including life experience. Acknowledging your past and showing significant improvement in your grades at Postbac program will count for you. Also, you will have a chance to show specific strength in the science courses that will be part of your program. Successful Postbac students have an excellent chance of getting into top medical schools. I can only only speak specifically about Columbia, but I know that well-prepared Postbacs at Columbia tend to get into top tier schools and, overall, the program has a very high medical school acceptance rate (somewhere around 90%).

Best of luck!
kf