convenience euthanasia

[ksgirl]

To everyone,

I've been reading everyone posts on the horse slaughter issue and have found it really thought provoking. I was hoping some of you might share your views on the issue of convenience euthanasia.

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[msmrtrthnyllb]

To everyone,

I've been reading everyone posts on the horse slaughter issue and have found it really thought provoking. I was hoping some of you might share your views on the issue of convenience euthanasia.

I don't think you're gonna find anyone for it.

 

[ksgirl]

I understand that no one is "for it" but do you feel that it is your responsibility as a veterinarian to give the owner of an unwanted animal a humane way to deal with this animal?

 

[ksgirl]

The reason I'm asking is because this is the view of the AVMA and if you agree with their view than you would agree with convenience euthanasia.

AVMA:
:"The AVMA is not opposed to the euthanasia of unwanted animals or those unfit for adoption, when conducted by qualified personnel, using appropriate humane methods as described in the AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia."

 

[julieDVM]

if I have to chose between euthanizing an unwanted animal, or letting the owners take it somewhere else (or worse yet - abandoning it) than i think the animal is better off dead than in the custody of those type of people. Its a hard choice and obviously i take these situations on a case by case basis - but usually this is what it comes down to.

 

[BostonLvr]

Although I feel that convenience euthanasia is never a pleasant thing, I do think it is the best option in some cases. When I am a veterinarian, I will only consider it on a case by case basis (as julieDVM said) if I feel all other options have been exhausted. As julieDVM said, many times the animals life would be a miserable one if left with the owners requesting a convenience euthanasia. If the owner is denied euthanasia the animal could go on to be abused, abandoned, or killed in an inhumane way. I personally know of a case where a farmer's dog became pregnant unexpectedly and birthed 9 puppies. He asked for a convenience euthanasia from his vet who refused. The man went home to drown all 9 puppies. It would deeply sadden me to put down 9 beautiful puppies, but it breaks my heart to imagine their suffering as they drowned.

 

[bakaduin]

In reading the AVMA's stance on the issue I cant help but think its original focus was on the unwanted animals in shelters. When someone comes in and says "Hey Im moving, can you put my cat to sleep because I cant take her with me" I personally wouldnt do it. Id either advise them to take the cat to the humane society where it can atleast have a chance of trying to find a home, or ask if I could have it and adopt it out myself.

 

[VAgirl]

In reading the AVMA's stance on the issue I cant help but think its original focus was on the unwanted animals in shelters. When someone comes in and says "Hey Im moving, can you put my cat to sleep because I cant take her with me" I personally wouldnt do it. Id either advise them to take the cat to the humane society where it can atleast have a chance of trying to find a home, or ask if I could have it and adopt it out myself.

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if any vets run an animal practice in conjunction with a rescue. Not just that they provide veterinary service to the rescue, but that both orgs are run by the same group. I wonder if that's financially viable (I'm imagining some profits from the practice being funneled into the rescue). But then, is that any different from a vet donating an equivalent amount of money to various rescues already running in the area?

I think bakaduin and others are right, though...I think the AVMA is referring to a last resort sort of situation, once the options of a rescue group, shelter placement, or finding a new family have all been exhausted. Which makes the term "convenience euthanasia" a misnomer in my mind.

 

[shuvball1]

At the hospital I work at, not only do we provide services to several area shelters, but the doctor has many many cats for adoption. There simply isn't enough room for the animals in all the shelters so he takes many in himself. The clinic is rather large so it is feasible to do this. At any given time during the summer we will have about 30+ kittens under the age of 12w. Many of the kittnens are sick when they come in so they are nursed back to health, tested for Felv/Fiv, vaccinated, and adopted out. I'm not sure of the economics of doing this, I am sure we are not benefiting, but it just seems to be the right thing to do. We have a "kitten fund" that people can donate to which helps defer some of the cost. It doesn't seem to matter though because this clinic has been around since the 30's with my Vet's father starting it. The clientele is very stable so he is financially able to run the "kitten/cat shelter" without worrying too much.

 

[bnicolec]

At the hospital that I worked for, many of the vets didn't agree with convenience euth, however, sometimes they did it anyways. I remember the first one I assisted with (it totally felt wrong) a client (a good one) brought it one cat for a dental, so I was getting the paper work already, called the client in and she had two carriers, but I only had one patient form. She explained to me that she wanted the other one euthanized - it didn't like to be held and was always hiding (i guess it wasn't the lap cat that she dreamed it would be). So we euthanized it, I felt horrible, but before you judge completely let me give a little bit of background, this woman was trapping strays getting them neutered and then providing them with a home. At first, and still a part of me, is opposed to what happened; however, if this cat was given to a shelter it probably would have been seen as unadoptable because it was so afraid, so instead of "wasting" (for lack of a better word) resources on the animal, it was probably best the cat was put down...however, I still feel horrible. (all the other euth's I had assisted with where b/c the animal was terminally ill or b/c they were just too old)

 

[RockStarKDub]

There are 7 doctors at my practice, and they rotate on-call Sundays. Some will perform convenience euths and some will not. The case that sticks out in my mind the most-- I was working a Sunday with one of the vets who refuses to do convenience euths and a woman called requesting one for her cat who was eliminating inappropriately. The doc told the woman she'd have to find another practice because she wouldn't do it. The woman called back an hour later to ask about our cremation services. The doc asked her why she didn't have the cremation done by the vet who euthed the animal.. to which the owner replied "I didn't go to another vet. I put my cat in a pillowcase and held it up to the exhaust pipe of my car."

And that is exactly why I will perform convenience euthanasias when I'm a vet.

 

[wivet2011]

(all the other euth's I had assisted with where b/c the animal was terminally ill or b/c they were just too old)

Not sure age should be a factor either. Unless the animal has health problems, why should we euthanize it just because it's old? My cat is old by most people's standards, and yeah, he sleeps most of the time, but he's still happy and has his crazy moments! I don't know, maybe's it's just me, but I've seen way too many people euthanize or surrender an animal just because it was old and then go out and get a puppy or kitten... When you get an animal, you are making a commitment to care for it for the rest of it's life (even if that means that you have no choice but to find it a new home for appropriate reasons...not euthanizing it because it's old and you want a new, younger, more playful pet!) Besides that, age is relative, so when do you decide an animal is old?

So, yes, I agree if the animal has health issues, euthanasia may be the most humane thing, but euthanizing a healthy, but old animal, to me, falls under convinience euthansia, which I do not agree with. As other people have suggested, I would rather have the animal signed over to me or a shelter, than euthanize. You'd be surprised at how willing people are to give you the animal rather than euthanize it... we've had several animals surrendered to my clinic and have no problems finding new homes. And yes, even old animals get adopted at humane societies...in fact, they sometimes get adopted faster than the kittens.

 

[wivet2011]

There are 7 doctors at my practice, and they rotate on-call Sundays. Some will perform convenience euths and some will not. The case that sticks out in my mind the most-- I was working a Sunday with one of the vets who refuses to do convenience euths and a woman called requesting one for her cat who was eliminating inappropriately. The doc told the woman she'd have to find another practice because she wouldn't do it. The woman called back an hour later to ask about our cremation services. The doc asked her why she didn't have the cremation done by the vet who euthed the animal.. to which the owner replied "I didn't go to another vet. I put my cat in a pillowcase and held it up to the exhaust pipe of my car."

And that is exactly why I will perform convenience euthanasias when I'm a vet.

😱 Couldn't she be reported for animal abuse?

 

[dyachei]

Not sure age should be a factor either. Unless the animal has health problems, why should we euthanize it just because it's old? My cat is old by most people's standards, and yeah, he sleeps most of the time, but he's still happy and has his crazy moments! I don't know, maybe's it's just me, but I've seen way too many people euthanize or surrender an animal just because it was old and then go out and get a puppy or kitten... When you get an animal, you are making a commitment to care for it for the rest of it's life (even if that means that you have no choice but to find it a new home for appropriate reasons...not euthanizing it because it's old and you want a new, younger, more playful pet!) Besides that, age is relative, so when do you decide an animal is old?

So, yes, I agree if the animal has health issues, euthanasia may be the most humane thing, but euthanizing a healthy, but old animal, to me, falls under convinience euthansia, which I do not agree with. As other people have suggested, I would rather have the animal signed over to me or a shelter, than euthanize. You'd be surprised at how willing people are to give you the animal rather than euthanize it... we've had several animals surrendered to my clinic and have no problems finding new homes. And yes, even old animals get adopted at humane societies...in fact, they sometimes get adopted faster than the kittens.

I agree with this. My 16 year old cat routinely chases the other cat around the house. As long as an animal wants to live, I think it should have that chance, but as other posters have said, its better to do a convenience euthanasia than to let the owner cause suffering and a painful death.

 

[banditalfi]

😱 Couldn't she be reported for animal abuse?

Probably.

I worked at a day practice where a man brought in a 16yo chihuahua to be euthanized because he was moving across the country (but he was taking his 9yo chi with him... ???). Anyway, he was a weirdo, but we were able to convince him to board the dog with us for a week while he could check into shelter arrangements and check with flights and things like that. He was surprisingly willing to fork over the money to board this animal (which in NYC is not that cheap). I am not sure what ended up happening with the dog, but it was just a really weird story and I still can't make heads or tails of it.

I also work at an emergency practice, where we euthanize more animals than I would like (not because the animal can't survive, but because it would cost literally thousands of dollars in order for them to). This brings up one of my biggest pet peeves - people will get an animal and then not have money for basic/emergency care. We frequently have owners come in with parvo puppies that think they just need to buy dogfood and the dog will be fine - they claim they couldn't afford shots for the dog.

Or just last week we had a man come in with his friend and the man's 12 week old puppy had been attacked by a stray dog. This dog was in horrible condition - bleeding everywhere, had a torn diaphragm, several shattered ribs, I think a collapsed lung, among other things. The estimate for care for this dog - just at our hospital - was between $2000 and $2500 - and the dog would need continued care at his regular vet.

This client had no money (he had $10 on him even though he knew we have an $80 emergency fee, on top of whatever treatment the animal might need and we need money up front), he did not have a credit card, he did not have a checking account, he did not have any friends with either, he did not have a job, he didn't have anything - except a nice german shepherd puppy that needed care. When we explained to the client that we do not bill because we have been stuck too many times in the past (because we are not their regular vet people have no problems not paying us) and we are not willing to take a $2000 hit the woman promptly got on the phone and explained, "apparently you can't get by in the world unless you have money."

Long story short is we eventually euthanized the poor thing (which was probably for the best anyway), but we later realized that the woman who claimed to just be his "friend" had been to our practice several times before and stuck us twice - for a total of over $700. She also had her mother call in to try to get drugs from us because she knew we wouldn't see her anymore. She was so horrible that the one doctor who always cuts people a break finally had enough of her and wouldn't give her any more free treatment. And most of the things she brought her animals in for were preventable anyway. Anyway, we finally put it together and realized the puppy was not the mans, but this woman's and she knew that if she gave us her information we would refuse treatment on the dog because we would never see the money. We also started to think about whether it was a stray dog that attacked the puppy or one of her other animals (she said she hadn't called the cops about it... weird). It just makes me so angry!

Anyway, I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm even more sorry that there are people out there who will continuously try to take advantage of the system, which just makes it harder for everyone else.

 

[dyachei]

banditalfi - that story is really shocking. I knew that people would cut and run without paying, but I hadn't realized that some people would actually try to cheat the system. Most people that didn't pay their bills actually couldn't afford it where I worked. I guess this is why we have classes warning us to get payments and not to make special cases.

 

[RockStarKDub]

😱 Couldn't she be reported for animal abuse?

Yes, I'm sure, but of course she never gave her information.

 

[Kara31191]

Where I work, a client wanted to euthanize a healthy 6 year old BEAUTIFUL Maine coon cat... Is it Maine Coon like the state? I'm not sure. Well anyways... it was urinating outside of the litterbox. The doctor, of course, took in this beautiful cat and he found a loving home in a barn where he could roam all day. Granted, he never urinated outside of the litterboxs ONCE while he was at the clinic. It makes me sick that people would rather euthanize an animal than bring it to the shelter. Do they feel better that way? Less guilty? I'm not so sure.

We've had upwards of 20 kittens over the summer, a beagle puppy right now, the geckos that are mine now, and many many more. It's a single-vet practice, and there isn't a lot of buisness all the time, so I figure she must be going broke. 🙄 Also, when I asked her about this, she said that you have to give back to the community.

It's just sad that vets will perform convenience euthanasias and that clients want it. To me it's pretty sick. It should be considered murder.

 

[julieDVM]

It's just sad that vets will perform convenience euthanasias and that clients want it. To me it's pretty sick. It should be considered murder.

Given the fact that you've never been in the position of having to chose what is best for an animal in a tough situation - i'm going to let this comment slide; even if i find it HIGHLY insulting, and very close minded.

Nobody here is saying they enjoy euthanizing animals that are healthy - but sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. Our mandate as veterinarians is to advocate for our patients best interests... sometimes that means biting the bullet and putting them down.

 

[sofficat]

At the hospital I work at, not only do we provide services to several area shelters, but the doctor has many many cats for adoption. There simply isn't enough room for the animals in all the shelters so he takes many in himself. The clinic is rather large so it is feasible to do this. At any given time during the summer we will have about 30+ kittens under the age of 12w. Many of the kittnens are sick when they come in so they are nursed back to health, tested for Felv/Fiv, vaccinated, and adopted out. I'm not sure of the economics of doing this, I am sure we are not benefiting, but it just seems to be the right thing to do. We have a "kitten fund" that people can donate to which helps defer some of the cost. It doesn't seem to matter though because this clinic has been around since the 30's with my Vet's father starting it. The clientele is very stable so he is financially able to run the "kitten/cat shelter" without worrying too much.

I worked at a clinic where we had a contract with a local pet store (icky) and we did SO MUCH free stuff for them. I sat down with the office manager and asked about the money/business aspect and having to deal with the pet store and if it was even worth it. Apparently, it is. That clinic makes $75,000 a year just from the business we get from that pet store (and yes, that is on top of the money we spend in 'free services.')

 

[sofficat]

Given the fact that you've never been in the position of having to chose what is best for an animal in a tough situation - i'm going to let this comment slide; even if i find it HIGHLY insulting, and very close minded.

Nobody here is saying they enjoy euthanizing animals that are healthy - but sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. Our mandate as veterinarians is to advocate for our patients best interests... sometimes that means biting the bullet and putting them down.

i agree. it's never fun and isn't easy, but sometimes it's what is best for the patient and that is why we are here. also, nice way to side step kara's comment. well done.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I really applaud the vets who have to make that hard decision. I'm in awe of them.

Y'know, honestly, it is thing like this which made me glad I'm not going into clinical medicine. I mean, my main desire IS research and pathology diagnostics for many other reasons, but sometimes I think of all the terrible moral and ethical decisions that clinical vets have to make and I really don't think I could do what they do.

 

[bnicolec]

What I meant by the animal being too old was that the animal's quality of life was diminished because of the age (urinating on itself, not being able to walk up down stairs, i.e.) To me veterinary medicine is not about prolonging life (like human medicine) but more about maintaining the quality of life. It feels like I am treading on thin ice (b/c I know some one will find something wrong with my argument). But I believe that if old age reduces the quality of life, and this is subjective, then euth is okay.

For instance, we had a cat (it was my cat) that couldn't hold its urine, couldn't walk up the stairs, moaned like he was in pain when he defected and lost a lot of weight (over a period of like 3 months). There was probably some type of illness that he had that caused the weight loss, but overall, he wasn't living the life he used to. He was confined to the house (downstairs), seemed like he was in pain, it felt like it was time - this is an example of what I meant by too old.

 

[wivet2011]

What I meant by the animal being too old was that the animal's quality of life was diminished because of the age (urinating on itself, not being able to walk up down stairs, i.e.) To me veterinary medicine is not about prolonging life (like human medicine) but more about maintaining the quality of life. It feels like I am treading on thin ice (b/c I know some one will find something wrong with my argument). But I believe that if old age reduces the quality of life, and this is subjective, then euth is okay.

For instance, we had a cat (it was my cat) that couldn't hold its urine, couldn't walk up the stairs, moaned like he was in pain when he defected and lost a lot of weight (over a period of like 3 months). There was probably some type of illness that he had that caused the weight loss, but overall, he wasn't living the life he used to. He was confined to the house (downstairs), seemed like he was in pain, it felt like it was time - this is an example of what I meant by too old.

First, I completely agree, quality of life should be the biggest consideration. Second, what you described about your cat, I would but under health issues (and even in a younger cat that had the same problems, euthanasia may be appropriate depending on the exact situation, so not really age dependant) But the way that I read your original post, was that euthaizing an old animal was ok...which if they have health problems that diminish their quality of life, that would be appropriate, but if they are perfectly healthy (no urinating on themselves, etc), it's a completely inappropriate reason for euthanasia (IMHO).

 

[ratbandit]

In general I lean towards not performing convenience euthanasia at all -unless it was some crazy awful circumstance. I see that a lot of people have said that they would euthanize because of bad experiences with people killing animals in inhumane ways or abandoning them. I think those are more isolated incidents though rather than what people will do in general - take it to a shelter, give it to you to take to a shelter, or take it to another vet. I would probably try as hard as possible to take the animal to a shelter myself with the owner's permission. Granted people will do whatever is the least work for them so...refusing to euthanize their animal might make them just go home and drown their kittens...but most people aren't that f'ed up (though obviously some are!!). Anyways, I guess my point is, refusing to euthanize their animal could give that animal another chance, euthanizing it is a guaranteed end but also guarunteed humane end. If it were my life I'd want that chance.

 

[meadow36]

If the pet is aggressive or has high maintenance special needs, then I agree with euthanasia. There's such a crisis of unwanted pets that ARE healthy and not aggressive that I just don't see the point of turning away an owner who can no longer care for their aggressive/health challenged animal. These animals are difficult if not impossible to place in new homes and it just isn't fair to them to sit in a shelter for the rest of their life.

Same goes for horses - they are extremely expensive to keep. As much as I love them, there are too many. I wish breeders would be more responsible (instead of breeding every mare they own to some crappy grade stallion just because they can) but that's not the reality. Reality is there are so many unwanted, poorly bred horses out there and there just isn't room for all of them. I would be pro-slaughter IF the process was more humane and the animals received proper treatment beforehand. In the meantime I am yet to see an anti-slaughter activist come up with a legitamite plan for all these unwanted horses. They just wind up being neglected and starved to death. I'd rather see them slaughtered.

This is just my $0.02.

 

[Whirr]

I think we can all agree that in an ideal world, we wouldn't have to perform euthanasias for any reason other than extreme illness or pain. But this isn't an ideal world.

At the shelter I work at, their stance is that they would rather have the animal brought in and humanely euthanized by us than to risk the chance that the animal is dumped or abused or killed in a more violent fashion. However, before we get to that point, we always offer people a bunch of options--for example, if it is a cat who is having "accidents" outside of the litterbox, we suggest a special cat litter, extra boxes, and so on. I think that our being willing to help the person out, even if that ultimately means the animal is euthanized, goes a long way to getting them to listen to us, which in turn helps us to help them be better animal owners. Does this mean we perform euthanasias glibly? Absolutely not. But you have to remember that there is a customer service aspect to this issue too. I don't believe that it is right to help people treat animals badly, or as disposable objects, but this is just not an issue you can paint in black and white. Each situation needs to be evaluated on an individual basis.

 

[Kara31191]

Given the fact that you've never been in the position of having to chose what is best for an animal in a tough situation - i'm going to let this comment slide; even if i find it HIGHLY insulting, and very close minded.

Nobody here is saying they enjoy euthanizing animals that are healthy - but sometimes it is the lesser of two evils. Our mandate as veterinarians is to advocate for our patients best interests... sometimes that means biting the bullet and putting them down.

Alright, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said it so harshly. It's just my opinion.

I meant in healthy animals in homes... I'm sorry... I reread that and said WHY on earth would I say that this way! 🙁