Cookie-cutter ECs and average stats - should I take another gap year?

[973176]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I was hoping to apply this cycle but I'm doubting my application now. My stats are 3.6X/519, and I am non-CA ORM.
I have 2000 hours of research but no pubs/presentations/posters - is that a red flag? I spent 20+ hours/week doing research while I was a student so that left little time for clinical and nonclinical volunteering.
I ended up with 250 hours of clinical and 200 nonclinical in cookie cutter settings, so it's nothing that will really stand out. I'm afraid my application might just look like another applicant checking the boxes.
Is it worth it to consider taking another gap year to strengthen my volunteering hours? I don't want to apply and waste the money if I don't have a chance with my weak ECs.
What do you think, SDN?

 

[glassesvar]

following

 

[luigi1996]

I was hoping to apply this cycle but I'm doubting my application now. My stats are 3.6X/519, and I am non-CA ORM.
I have 2000 hours of research but no pubs/presentations/posters - is that a red flag? I spent 20+ hours/week doing research while I was a student so that left little time for clinical and nonclinical volunteering.
I ended up with 250 hours of clinical and 200 nonclinical in cookie cutter settings, so it's nothing that will really stand out. I'm afraid my application might just look like another applicant checking the boxes.
Is it worth it to consider taking another gap year to strengthen my volunteering hours? I don't want to apply and waste the money if I don't have a chance with my weak ECs.
What do you think, SDN?

If your plan is to take another gap year to strengthen your volunteering hours, I would just apply. Your stats and extracurriculars are fine, maybe the GPA is a bit too low? Idk, you would need to get an ADCOMs opinion on that. For the poster/pub, it is not a red flag, I believe this is fairly common among applicants. It does seem strange that you don't have any posters, but it won't be a big deal, I think. Just work hard on your PS/secondaries. Explain why certain activities are important and how these helped you affirm your believe of "Why medicine" and "Why should we pick you". Idk why people think you need to do special ECs to stand out. It's the reason of why you did it, what you learn, and how that helped you become a better aspiring physician the unique aspect and the if you explain that well to others, that will make you stand out. Best of luck!

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I was hoping to apply this cycle but I'm doubting my application now. My stats are 3.6X/519, and I am non-CA ORM.
I have 2000 hours of research but no pubs/presentations/posters - is that a red flag? I spent 20+ hours/week doing research while I was a student so that left little time for clinical and nonclinical volunteering.
I ended up with 250 hours of clinical and 200 nonclinical in cookie cutter settings, so it's nothing that will really stand out. I'm afraid my application might just look like another applicant checking the boxes.
Is it worth it to consider taking another gap year to strengthen my volunteering hours? I don't want to apply and waste the money if I don't have a chance with my weak ECs.
What do you think, SDN?

If you’re going for MD/PhD the no posters or presentations would hurt. If not then don’t worry about it. I don’t think your ECs are weak. If they are cookie cutter then those ECs are at least average. Any leadership or tutoring?

 

[dr_kateb]

519 aint average.

 

[973176]

If your plan is to take another gap year to strengthen your volunteering hours, I would just apply. Your stats and extracurriculars are fine, maybe the GPA is a bit too low? Idk, you would need to get an ADCOMs opinion on that. For the poster/pub, it is not a red flag, I believe this is fairly common among applicants. It does seem strange that you don't have any posters, but it won't be a big deal, I think. Just work hard on your PS/secondaries. Explain why certain activities are important and how these helped you affirm your believe of "Why medicine" and "Why should we pick you". Idk why people think you need to do special ECs to stand out. It's the reason of why you did it, what you learn, and how that helped you become a better aspiring physician the unique aspect and the if you explain that well to others, that will make you stand out. Best of luck!

Thank you! Which adcoms would be able to help me? Sorry I'm pretty new to SDN so I don't really know how everything works

 

[973176]

If you’re going for MD/PhD the no posters or presentations would hurt. If not then don’t worry about it. I don’t think your ECs are weak. If they are cookie cutter then those ECs are at least average. Any leadership or tutoring?

I'm doing MD-only. I do have some minor leadership positions in a club that I'm in, and my nonclinical volunteering hours were done at a nearby school. I just don't know if average is enough to get me in, especially as ORM with a mediocre GPA.

 

[Goro]

I was hoping to apply this cycle but I'm doubting my application now. My stats are 3.6X/519, and I am non-CA ORM.
I have 2000 hours of research but no pubs/presentations/posters - is that a red flag? I spent 20+ hours/week doing research while I was a student so that left little time for clinical and nonclinical volunteering.
I ended up with 250 hours of clinical and 200 nonclinical in cookie cutter settings, so it's nothing that will really stand out. I'm afraid my application might just look like another applicant checking the boxes.
Is it worth it to consider taking another gap year to strengthen my volunteering hours? I don't want to apply and waste the money if I don't have a chance with my weak ECs.
What do you think, SDN?

I recommend the following schools, but in the mean time, get in more service to others less fortunate than yourself.
Columbia
Duke
Harvard
Sinai
Cornell
Stanford
BU
Case
Mayo
Pitt
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
USC/Keck
USF Morsani
Albert Einstein
Dartmouth
Emory
Rochester
Jefferson
Miami
U VM
Western MI
Gtown
GWU
Wake
Kaiser
MCW

 

[973176]

I recommend the following schools, but in the mean time, get in more service to others less fortunate than yourself.
Columbia
Duke
Harvard
Sinai
Cornell
Stanford
BU
Case
Mayo
Pitt
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
USC/Keck
USF Morsani
Albert Einstein
Dartmouth
Emory
Rochester
Jefferson
Miami
U VM
Western MI
Gtown
GWU
Wake
Kaiser
MCW

Harvard?!?! Stanford?!?! I wasn't even going to consider those schools...are you sure??
Also, my nonclinical volunteering hours were at a school for disabled kids. Does that count as service toward the less fortunate?

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

519 and 2000 hours of research is considered cookie-cutter? It seems like a lot has changed in one application cycle.

All kidding aside, I second Goro's list. I had a similar list with a much lower gpa and a significantly higher MCAT and found success this cycle (I'm also CA ORM). Feel free to throw in 4-5 more applications. Your ec won't be a detriment if you write well.

 

[Postdoc2MD]

Bro, your being super neurotic. Stats are great, GPA may be 'low' for T10, but still great. Your 519 MCAT is in the 97th percentile... so definitely worth a shot. Rule of thumb average is 100 hrs each of clinical and non-clinical, and you have over double that (ALSO be sure to include projected hours on your app, which will pump those numbers up even more).

2000 hours is a lot of research. No pubs/poster would be kind of weird, but still understandable, especially if it is basic research, which can be slooow.

Go ahead and apply, keep volunteering. If your LORs and essays are good, you are a T20 applicant, but I'd still apply broad and to your state schools as well.

 

[Goro]

Harvard?!?! Stanford?!?! I wasn't even going to consider those schools...are you sure??
Also, my nonclinical volunteering hours were at a school for disabled kids. Does that count as service toward the less fortunate?

Yes and yes

And work on the self esteem

 

[973176]

Thank you guys for all your help!!! Will work on the confidence aspect hahaha

 

[puahate]

I like how non-CA is now a descriptor LMAO

 

[lalalallala]

You describe your activities as cookie cutter but I feel like maybe you’re not giving yourself enough credit? Do you have passions you’ve pursued? Activities you really love doing? I feel like a good app is probs in there if you look hard enough

 

[kepler16b]

If you’re going for MD/PhD the no posters or presentations would hurt. If not then don’t worry about it. I don’t think your ECs are weak. If they are cookie cutter then those ECs are at least average. Any leadership or tutoring?

2000 hours is a lot of research. No pubs/poster would be kind of weird, but still understandable, especially if it is basic research, which can be slooow.

Stop spreading misinformation about publications.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

I like how non-CA is now a descriptor LMAO

I can tell you that my male ORM CA advisees have struggled the past 2 cycles. They all get in someplace, but they just eek out an acceptance or two, while male ORM similar applicants with same D1 sport, EC's, stats, etc get much more interest from T20 East Coast places.
The only CA applicant who did really well (ie got into Harvard, Yale, UCSF, UCLA, etc) was significantly disadvantaged and URIM female.

Cali boys, I feels ya'alls' pain!

 

[973176]

I can tell you that my male ORM CA advisees have struggled the past 2 cycles. They all get in someplace, but they just eek out an acceptance or two, while male ORM similar applicants with same D1 sport, EC's, stats, etc get much more interest from T20 East Coast places.
The only CA applicant who did really well (ie got into Harvard, Yale, UCSF, UCLA, etc) was significantly disadvantaged and URIM female.

Cali boys, I feels ya'alls' pain!

I'm female and ORM, not from California (bless)!!! Hopefully it'll be fine, I think I'm just worrying because 2 of my best friends are CA ORM and applied this past cycle, and they're still waiting for good news. It's hard not to compare myself to them

 

[lalalallala]

I'm female and ORM, not from California (bless)!!! Hopefully it'll be fine, I think I'm just worrying because 2 of my best friends are CA ORM and applied this past cycle, and they're still waiting for good news. It's hard not to compare myself to them

I completely know this feeling. One of my good friends from college with super high stats and basically same demographics and activities as me applied last year and did not do very well - eventually got off of her 1 WL and went there. I applied this year and was very nervous I would have the same experience but I've been really happy with how my application cycle has gone. I think the main thing to remember is how different people's essays, life experiences, LORs, and all of those intangibles really are - and those things can definitely be the difference between an II and not when people otherwise look the same on paper.

 

[965978]

I can tell you that my male ORM CA advisees have struggled the past 2 cycles. They all get in someplace, but they just eek out an acceptance or two, while male ORM similar applicants with same D1 sport, EC's, stats, etc get much more interest from T20 East Coast places.
The only CA applicant who did really well (ie got into Harvard, Yale, UCSF, UCLA, etc) was significantly disadvantaged and URIM female.

Cali boys, I feels ya'alls' pain!

I shadowed a doctor (who was well connected to a top 25 med school as he did his residency there) whose daughter got into 8 med schools. She's ORM and from CA.

I guess it helps having a doctor (especially one who works in academia) as a parent because sometimes they get you the automatic hookup to premier shadowing, clinical, and/or research opportunities. And finding, applying for, and getting opportunities is one of the hardest parts of being a pre-med (as opposed to being a med student where you have a whole land of opportunities to take advantage of).

 

[orthomyxo]

“Average stats”
519 MCAT
...what?

 

[973176]

“Average stats”
519 MCAT
...what?

Low-ish GPA + above-average MCAT = average stats I guess?

 

[973176]

I completely know this feeling. One of my good friends from college with super high stats and basically same demographics and activities as me applied last year and did not do very well - eventually got off of her 1 WL and went there. I applied this year and was very nervous I would have the same experience but I've been really happy with how my application cycle has gone. I think the main thing to remember is how different people's essays, life experiences, LORs, and all of those intangibles really are - and those things can definitely be the difference between an II and not when people otherwise look the same on paper.

You're definitely right, I think the essays can be a game-changer and are often overlooked. Hoping I'll be in your shoes in a year from now--best of luck in med school!!!

 

[el799]

What’s done is done but just kinda curious why did you stay in a lab where you were working 20+ hours a week and ended with no pubs. With that much research I would expect at least 1-2 middle author pubs

 

[973176]

What’s done is done but just kinda curious why did you stay in a lab where you were working 20+ hours a week and ended with no pubs. With that much research I would expect at least 1-2 middle author pubs

I am going to be on a pub, but it just recently got submitted so I don't think it'll go through in time to go on my primary. Basic research is slow!! I am bummed about it, but it is what it is...

 

[lalalallala]

What’s done is done but just kinda curious why did you stay in a lab where you were working 20+ hours a week and ended with no pubs. With that much research I would expect at least 1-2 middle author pubs

Working in a lab isn't just for the pubs... it's about learning and doing valuable work that you hopefully enjoy... people on SDN always blowing the need for pubs out of proportion

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Do some labs hand out pubs are handed out like candy? I see countless posts with people who have 200-400 hours of research with pubs and I'm just like... how??

 

[puahate]

Do some labs hand out pubs are handed out like candy? I see countless posts with people who have 200-400 hours of research with pubs and I'm just like... how??

I am in a research fellowship and I know someone already has a publication as a middle author 4 months in a review article. Some PIs are just cool like that.

 

[manofsteel9]

People here are brutal and ignorant regarding pubs lmao. Maybe OP started his/her own project in undergrad, which will actually take A LOT longer than just pipetting/running western blots and having the postdoc/grad student do all the work for you. Having a first-author paper can easily take 4-5 years of FULL-TIME work in basic science, especially if you’re trying to publish in a reputable journal. And first author >>>>>> middle author in the long-run.

 

[973176]

Do some labs hand out pubs are handed out like candy? I see countless posts with people who have 200-400 hours of research with pubs and I'm just like... how??

I think it comes down to luck, honestly. Someone I know colored some stuff in on a few MRIs and got her name on a pub within 4 months of working 5 hours/week for her lab. My research was behavioral, so it took a lot longer to see any actual results. No regrets though--I really enjoyed working in my lab even though it took a lot of time. Hopefully the adcoms will understand

 

[el799]

Do some labs hand out pubs are handed out like candy? I see countless posts with people who have 200-400 hours of research with pubs and I'm just like... how??

Yeah In an ideal world you find a lab you like and learn from that also does this. I had been researching for a year and half and had 4 pubs and 1 of which was first author many more now too

 

[pmcojm]

You need a great personal statement. Find someone who can help you develop one, and you should be in decent shape. Apply early and broadly.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

519 and 2000 hours of research is considered cookie-cutter? It seems like a lot has changed in one application cycle.

All kidding aside, I second Goro's list. I had a similar list with a much lower gpa and a significantly higher MCAT and found success this cycle (I'm also CA ORM). Feel free to throw in 4-5 more applications. Your ec won't be a detriment if you write well.

It is very much cookie-cutter for top-20 schools and above average everywhere else. If OP is dead-set on a gap year or really wants the top-20 acceptance, something like Americorps might be helpful.

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

It is very much cookie-cutter for top-20 schools and above average everywhere else. If OP is dead-set on a gap year or really wants the top-20 acceptance, something like Americorps might be helpful.

Where does OP mention top-20? 2000 hours of research and a 519 is way above average everywhere else and is likely within the running for consideration at certain top schools.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Stop spreading misinformation about publications.

I’m not. A buddy of mine applied MD/PhD with 4 years of research with no publications or presentations. He was routinely asked in interviews why no publications or poster presentations. He said they grilled him on the why. Obviously they didn’t like that and he wasn’t accepted to any MD/PhD. Truth hurts I guess.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Working in a lab isn't just for the pubs... it's about learning and doing valuable work that you hopefully enjoy... people on SDN always blowing the need for pubs out of proportion

People here are brutal and ignorant regarding pubs lmao. Maybe OP started his/her own project in undergrad, which will actually take A LOT longer than just pipetting/running western blots and having the postdoc/grad student do all the work for you. Having a first-author paper can easily take 4-5 years of FULL-TIME work in basic science, especially if you’re trying to publish in a reputable journal. And first author >>>>>> middle author in the long-run.

What if someone doesn’t have any poster presentations either? With 3-4 years of research you should be doing something other than just showing up to lab.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I'm doing MD-only. I do have some minor leadership positions in a club that I'm in, and my nonclinical volunteering hours were done at a nearby school. I just don't know if average is enough to get me in, especially as ORM with a mediocre GPA.

With that MCAT you should be good to go. The GPA isn’t low for many MD programs unless if we’re talking about top 20 schools. Do you have an up word trend in GPA? Honestly you are being far too neurotic about not getting in. You are a strong candidate for many MD schools.

 

[973176]

I’m not. A buddy of mine applied MD/PhD with 4 years of research with no publications or presentations. He was routinely asked in interviews why no publications or poster presentations. He said they grilled him on the why. Obviously they didn’t like that and he wasn’t accepted to any MD/PhD. Truth hurts I guess.

Pubs are definitely necessary for PhD programs nowadays. Thank goodness I’m not applying MD/PhD!! And yes I had a feeling I’m being too neurotic. Thanks for calming my premed neuroticism fears lol

 

[973176]

What if someone doesn’t have any poster presentations either? With 3-4 years of research you should be doing something other than just showing up to lab.

Yeah that was something I’m worried about, I was only at my lab for 2 years but just never got around to doing a poster or anything like that... just wanted to know how adcoms might feel about that

 

[kepler16b]

Pubs are definitely necessary for PhD programs nowadays. Thank goodness I’m not applying MD/PhD!! And yes I had a feeling I’m being too neurotic. Thanks for calming my premed neuroticism fears lol

For anyone reading this thread in the future, don't listen to this guy. Pubs are not necessary for PhD applications nor MD/PhD. That is a very narrow view of what you are supposed to get out of research as an undergrad.

 

[deleted804295]

I was hoping to apply this cycle but I'm doubting my application now. My stats are 3.6X/519, and I am non-CA ORM.
I have 2000 hours of research but no pubs/presentations/posters - is that a red flag? I spent 20+ hours/week doing research while I was a student so that left little time for clinical and nonclinical volunteering.
I ended up with 250 hours of clinical and 200 nonclinical in cookie cutter settings, so it's nothing that will really stand out. I'm afraid my application might just look like another applicant checking the boxes.
Is it worth it to consider taking another gap year to strengthen my volunteering hours? I don't want to apply and waste the money if I don't have a chance with my weak ECs.
What do you think, SDN?

This is the epitome of an SDN thread.

On a more serious note: You really don't need to take a gap year.

 

[973176]

This is the epitome of an SDN thread.

On a more serious note: You really don't need to take a gap year.

Sorry!!!!!! Yes I have been told off a number of times now on this thread hahaha.