COPD exacerbation & oxygen

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retroviridae

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So there I was watching ER when this pt gets an MI s/p hypoxemia secondary to too much O2. They scold the intern saying, "COPD pts depend on their hypercapnea to stimulate respiration. You gave too much oxygen and he stopped breathing ... common rooky intern mistake"

Yeah, that rings a bell. So I wanted to know how much oxygen to give. I went to my trusty Harrison's and it basically says give all the O2 you want ... supplemental O2 barely reduces minute ventilation and is a non-issue in COPD.

What do you guys do on the wards? How much O2 do you give?

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retroviridae said:
So there I was watching ER when this pt gets an MI s/p hypoxemia secondary to too much O2. They scold the intern saying, "COPD pts depend on their hypercapnea to stimulate respiration. You gave too much oxygen and he stopped breathing ... common rooky intern mistake"

Yeah, that rings a bell. So I wanted to know how much oxygen to give. I went to my trusty Harrison's and it basically says give all the O2 you want ... supplemental O2 barely reduces minute ventilation and is a non-issue in COPD.

What do you guys do on the wards? How much O2 do you give?

ER is correct.

A good rule of thumb is to titrate the oxgen to a pulse ox (Sa02) of 90%, which will give you roughly a Pa02 of 60 Torr. What most commonly gets the overly oxygenated COPD patient in trouble is not an MI. As the patient has abundant PA02, their alveolar minute ventilation decreases causing their PaC02 to increase. This leads to acidemia and bad things like bradycardia, cardiac arrest, PEA and ultimately death. I have unfortunately seen this a few times, and it has not always been a "rookie intern's mistake."

Look further in Harrison's and other texts and you shall find this. Hope that this helps.
 
retroviridae said:
So there I was watching ER when this pt gets an MI s/p hypoxemia secondary to too much O2. They scold the intern saying, "COPD pts depend on their hypercapnea to stimulate respiration. You gave too much oxygen and he stopped breathing ... common rooky intern mistake"

Yeah, that rings a bell. So I wanted to know how much oxygen to give. I went to my trusty Harrison's and it basically says give all the O2 you want ... supplemental O2 barely reduces minute ventilation and is a non-issue in COPD.

What do you guys do on the wards? How much O2 do you give?

It's only a small minority of COPD pts that rely on hypoxic drive (most rely on CO2 like everyone else) & FAR more people die of hypoxia than die of over administration of oxygen.

If you give too much O2 to a pt who relies on hypoxic drive, you will cause them to no longer be hypoxic and remove the stimulus to breathe. They will get hypercapnoeic and acidotic, but will NOT be hypoxicaemic. Once they stop breathing, they will get hypoxicaemic again and (as long as they have a patent airway) then start breathing.

The dangers are that high CO2 depresses conscious state, so it IS possible to lose the airway. Also acidosis causes arrythmias. But mostly, they will just start breathing again by themselves, once they become hypoxic again.

What do we do on the wards ? Anyone who needs O2 gets it. Give however much they need to get a Sat high enough for decent DO2. (I agree with jdaasbo that a sat of 90% is a good aim).

I once had a patient who was given too much O2, bagged him on room air - brought his CO2 down and his PO2 down - he wakes up - it's all good. (but it's a weird feeling choosing to bag people on room air !)
 
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JobsFan said:
It's only a small minority of COPD pts that rely on hypoxic drive (most rely on CO2 like everyone else) & FAR more people die of hypoxia than die of over administration of oxygen.

If you give too much O2 to a pt who relies on hypoxic drive, you will cause them to no longer be hypoxic and remove the stimulus to breathe. They will get hypercapnoeic and acidotic, but will NOT be hypoxicaemic. Once they stop breathing, they will get hypoxicaemic again and (as long as they have a patent airway) then start breathing.

The dangers are that high CO2 depresses conscious state, so it IS possible to lose the airway. Also acidosis causes arrythmias. But mostly, they will just start breathing again by themselves, once they become hypoxic again.

What do we do on the wards ? Anyone who needs O2 gets it. Give however much they need to get a Sat high enough for decent DO2. (I agree with jdaasbo that a sat of 90% is a good aim).

I once had a patient who was given too much O2, bagged him on room air - brought his CO2 down and his PO2 down - he wakes up - it's all good. (but it's a weird feeling choosing to bag people on room air !)


Good to know. My bad by the way. I wrote it wrong. No MI, just arrested secondary to resp arrest. I was always tought Sa02 of 90, I even thought I read it in older editions of Harrison's ... but the new one, at least in management of acuet exacerbation of COPD says in so many words that they old thinking about CO2 washout being an issue is wrong. Maybe it still says watch out in another section by another author. It's always hard to change medical dogma, esp this, which is first taught in physiology. Thanks guys/gals!
 
This gets kicked around every now and then both in the ER and on the floor. The key point, if it's the only thing you remember is never to withhold oxygen therapy from a patient with an acute COPD exacerbation for fear of causing hypercapnea. Venti masks are great. BiPAP is your friend.

The cause of hypercapnea seems to be related to a combination of worsened V/Q mismatch by release of hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction, the Haldane effect of decreased binding affinity of hemoglobin for CO2 and in the end a decreased minute ventilation. In general the worsened V/Q mismatch is the primary cause of hypercapnea in COPD as with supplemental oxygen you're increasing dead space ventilation.

Uptodate has a beautiful discussion of this topic listed as "Use of oxygen in patients with hypercapnia". It's well worth the reading.
 
Okay, I'm confused. I thought that the poor ventilation of COPDers caused chronic hypercapnia and chronic respiratory acidosis. The brainstem, or wherever, resets it's CO2 threshold for inducing respiration, therefore, if you give O2 you lower the PaCO2 and there is no stimulation for respiration and the patient becomes hypoxic. You guys seem to be saying that the hypoxia is what drives ventilation and the resulting hypercapnea causes the problems. Am I totally off base?
 
Bobblehead said:
Uptodate has a beautiful discussion of this topic listed as "Use of oxygen in patients with hypercapnia". It's well worth the reading.

It is a great review. Thanks!
 
you guys are rehashing old outdated beliefs that are spread by uneducated physicians relying on old outdated textbooks...

please show me any data to support any of what ALL of you have posted!!!

an MI because a COPD got too much O2 - that is baloney...
 
well that was a fantastic contribution. i'm glad i checked this thread for that.
 
okay so here is the literature:

The Control of Breathing in Clinical Practice, Caruana-Montaldo, et al, Chest 117/1 Jan., 2000, pages 205-225

Critical Care Medicine September 1997 Editorial "Debunking Myths of Chronic Obstructive Lung Disease", by Dr. John Hoyt

I quote Dr. Hoyt:

"There are examples of mythology that float about in the atmosphere of medical information that desperately need to be debunked because they influence the care of patients. One sample of medical mythology is the commonly told story that the administration of oxygen to a patient with chronic obstructive lung disease will shut down the patient's hypoxic respiratory drive and lead to apnea, cardiorespiratory arrest, and the subsequent death of the patient.

It is not clear where this fallacious information comes from, but it seems to enter the medical information database at an early age, at the medical student or resident level, almost like a computer virus corrupting the appropriate function of the equipment. In addition, this myth becomes very difficult to extinguish during the career of the physician, even with clear factual information of long standing. The danger here is that this medical mythology will inappropriately influence treatment decisions in patients.

The basic issue in this story is oxygen. The human body, particularly key organs such as the heart and brain, are not at all forgiving of insufficient supplies of oxygen. Thus, medical decision-making-based on the mythology that oxygen causes apnea and cardiorespiratory arrest in patients with chronic obstructive lung disease by turning off the oxygen respiratory drive-might take the path of withholding or delivering inadequate doses of oxygen to meet the metabolic needs of the patient in respiratory failure. This mistake is generally fatal for the patient, and a treatment tragedy for the misinformed physician.

The article by Dr. Crossley and colleagues [1] in this issue of Critical Care Medicine is an elegant project capable of debunking the mythological relationship between oxygen and apnea in patients with chronic obstructive lung disease. The authors [1] nicely demonstrate that a substantial dose of oxygen in intubated but spontaneously breathing patients with chronic obstructive lung disease has no effect on PaCO2, deadspace, and respiratory drive. The discussion section of the article [1] is superb. The authors [1] assembled facts from the respiratory physiology literature to demonstrate that oxygen releases hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction in chronic obstructive lung disease patients. This release of hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction leads to a further mismatch of ventilation and perfusion in chronic obstructive lung disease patients, with a subsequent increase in deadspace. In this situation, minute volume largely stays the same or may increase slightly to eliminate CO2, but the elimination of CO2 has by now become more difficult, as the deadspace has increased.

Most mythological stories are based on some observation, which may be a correct observation but an incorrect interpretation of the events. It is true that the administration of oxygen to a patient with exacerbated chronic obstructive lung disease and acute respiratory failure may lead to an increased CO2. It is true that the hypercarbia may become severe and be associated with cardiorespiratory arrest. The problem is with interpreting the cause of this event. As Dr. Crossley and colleagues [1] indicate, the hypercarbia is caused by release of hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction with increased deadspace, and not by down-regulating the hypoxic drive. Thus, one should not fear apnea and cardiorespiratory arrest when giving oxygen to a patient with an exacerbated chronic obstructive lung disease and respiratory failure. Instead, one should be prepared to help the patient eliminate CO2 when deadspace increases. Providing assistance with the elimination of CO2 has been around since the beginning of critical care medicine. It is called mechanical ventilation.

A clear and scientific interpretation of the response to oxygen in a patient with exacerbated chronic obstructive lung disease and acute respiratory failure has always been important, but currently, such an interpretation is essential. As health care transforms itself, a variety of individuals, organizations, and healthcare facilities are attempting to translate medical information into critical pathways. These critical pathways are being used by a wide range of professionals to guide the treatment of patients. The critical pathways must be accurate, and based on the best medical science to protect the life of the patient. A critical pathway for a patient with exacerbated chronic obstructive lung disease and acute respiratory failure based on a down-regulation of hypoxic drive might be constructed to minimize the dose of oxygen to keep the patient breathing spontaneously. However, a critical pathway based on an increase in deadspace and difficulty eliminating CO2 should be constructed to help the patient eliminate CO2 with mechanical ventilation, while meeting the patient's uncompromising physiologic needs for oxygen.

Dr. Crossley and colleagues [1] cite a textbook on respiratory physiology by the British author J. F. Nunn [2]. This book [2], along with the monographs edited by John West on respiratory function and pathophysiology [3,4], has been required reading for anesthesia residents for many years. The books should be read by all physicians caring for critically ill patients. These textbooks create a clear picture of the physiologic changes in lung function that are associated with chronic obstructive lung disease. They allow for the debunking of medical mythology and the appropriate creation of treatment protocols for the management of respiratory failure."

Moral of the story: Harrison's is right and your ER/IM docs telling you this crap are wrong
 
Tenesma nailed it. Depriving a patient with severe COPD, in acute decompensation, of oxygen for the fear of causing a respiratory arrest has been debunked and in fact, should be considered malpractice. The issue is that you must provide both oxygenation and ventilation in these patients...thus correcting one without the other will lead to disaster.
 
OK so we all agree that witholding O2 (or limiting it to a low level etc.) in a COAD patient who has acute hypoxia is stupid, and constitutes malpractice - right ?

Are you guys saying that removal of hypoxic drive due to O2 admin in normally hypercapnic COAD patients NEVER happens ?- I said it was rare, and I guess my belief in this regard comes from listening to an intensivist that I respect (rather than reading published physiological studies).

Are you also saying that my one COAD patient (after 10 years of giving hypoxic COAD patients however much O2 they need to prevent life threatening hypoxia) who did have a respiratory arrest and required mechanical ventilation who also had a SaO2 of 99-100%, had his arrest for reasons other than removal of hypoxic drive? If so what is the explanation, he sure seemed to have "won't breathe" respiratory failure rather than "can't breathe" respiratory failure.

Thanks for your reply everyone, I'm SO sick of this topic (it just keeps coming up 🙁 )

I just want the truth of the matter - as Mulder says "The truth is out there"
 
Ammonia is correlated with hepatic encephalopathy. Iron and iron-containing foods does not make stool guaiac positive. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.
 
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JobsFan: I am glad that you are interested in this topic... My response/advice for you

1) it is time to make the transition from ICU nurse to med student... and learn deductive evidence based reasoning...
2) yes, I am saying that removal of hypoxic drive by giving O2 to a COPDer never leads to resp. arrest (not rare... NEVER... it has never been proven or reported... and trust me, I do a lot of THoracic anesthesia on severe COPDers and I have tried many times 🙂
3) Your ONE case of respiratory arrest most likely had a respiratory arrest for OTHER reasons than O2 supplementation.... it is very hard to have any kind of respiratory arrest unless somebody has significant respiratory acidosis to the point where they are self-narcotizing themselves with their CO2 - in which case they usually obstruct first then have resp. arrest. If you watch somebody go through this you can usually rescue them before they have resp arrest by opening up their airway and assisting their breathing (BiPAP comes to mind)
 
Let’s try to keep this whole thing civil. We are doctors, not WWF wrestlers. Chiding someone to “make the transition from ICU nurse to med student... and learn deductive evidence based reasoning” is not productive.

This should be an educational exercise, rather than chest thumping.

No one implied that it was either their appropriate or their intent to “withhold” oxygen from patients who need it. To the contrary, the recommendation was to titrate oxygen to Sa02 of 90%. I don’t think anyone would argue that respiratory support (either invasive or non-invasive) has its appropriate role.

I think that this question of whether and how increased Fi02 leads to hypercapnea and further morbidity is interesting. At my institution there is an ongoing quality control effort at the administration/Department of Medicine level to prevent hypercapneic respiratory failure due to “over-oxygenation” in COPD patients. It is clear in my mind that this would not occur if the Department of Critical Care and Pulmonary Medicine felt that this effort jeopardized patient care.

The piece in Critical Care 1997 quoted by Tenesma (Debunking myths of chronic obstructive lung disease.
Crit Care Med. 1997 Sep;25(9):1450-1 PMID: 9295811) has only 12 patients. It is entirely possible (and I think likely) that they made a type II error (they failed to detect a difference that exists due to inadequate statistical power). In addition the patients were all intubated, whereas the clinical question put forth initially in this thread implied un-intubated patients. I also find the editorial by Hoyt to be rather un-balanced.

I did a little literature search on the topic and here is some of what I found.

1.

A small observational study looking at asthma patients (which is NOT the same as COPD)

Eur J Emerg Med. 2004 Dec;11(6):355-7.
Hypercapnia and oxygen therapy in older asthmatic patients.
Ting JY.

Excessive oxygen administration in hypercapnic chronic obstructive pulmonary disease predisposes to worsening respiratory failure during intercurrent respiratory illness. Chronic hypercapnia is thought to downregulate carbon dioxide chemoreceptor sensitivity, adversely affecting respiratory function/mechanics and worsening ventilation-perfusion inequality. These patients are dependent on hypoxic drive to maintain adequate spontaneous respiration. Whether an analogous situation occurs in asthma in older adults is unknown. These conditions may be difficult to differentiate clinically, and both may respond adversely to the administration of excessive oxygen in the presence of chronic hypercapnia. Although unrestricted oxygen is beneficial and safe in children and young adults with asthma, it may lead to progressive hypercapnia in older patients with asthma, a potential risk highlighted by this case. To avert progressive hypercapnia, oxygen therapy that is carefully adjusted to achieve adequate, but not maximal, tissue oxygenation may be a safer strategy than unrestricted oxygen use in older asthmatic patients. However, the correction of hypoxia overrides strategies to avert oxygen-related hypercapnia.


2.

Plant PK, Owen JL, Elliott MV. One year period prevalence study of respiratory acidosis in acute exacerbations of COPD: implications for the provision on non-invasive ventilation and oxygen administration. Thorax 2000; 55:550–554


BACKGROUND: Non-invasive ventilation (NIV) reduces mortality and intubation rates in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) admitted to hospital with respiratory acidosis. This study aimed to determine the prevalence of respiratory acidosis in patients admitted with COPD, to draw inferences about oxygen therapy, and to determine the need for NIV services for acute COPD in typical UK hospitals.

METHODS: This one year prospective prevalence study identified patients with COPD aged 45–79 years inclusive who were admitted to Leeds General Infirmary, St James's University, and Killingbeck Hospitals, Leeds between 1 March 1997 and 28 February 1998. The prevalence of respiratory acidosis and the relationship with oxygenation are described. Other outcomes included intensive care use and in hospital mortality. From this data population prevalence estimates were determined for respiratory acidosis, from which the need for NIV in a typical district general hospital was modelled.

RESULTS: 983 patients were admitted, 11 of whom required immediate intubation. 20% of the remaining 972 had a respiratory acidosis. Acidosis was associated with subsequent admission to the intensive care unit (ICU): pH<7.25, OR 6.10 (95% confidence interval (CI) 1.19 to 31.11); pH 7.25–7.30, OR 8.73 (95% CI 2.11 to 36.06). pH was inversely correlated with arterial oxygen tension (Pao2) in the 47% of patients who were hypercapnic, with a Pao2 of >10 kPa being associated with acidosis in most hypercapnic patients. 80% remained acidotic after initial treatment, giving an age/sex specific prevalence for England and Wales of 75 (95% CI 61 to 90)/100 000/year for men aged 45–79 years and 57 (95% CI 46 to 69)/100 000/year for women. Modelling the need for NIV for all COPD patients indicates that a typical UK hospital will admit 90 patients per year with acidosis of which 72 will require NIV.

CONCLUSIONS: In patients with acute COPD the Pao2 should be maintained at 7.3–10 kPa (Sao2 85–92%) to avoid the dangers of hypoxia and acidosis. If all COPD patients with a respiratory acidosis (pH<7.35) after initial treatment are offered NIV, a typical UK hospital will treat 72 patients per year.

3.
An opinion piece.

Curr Opin Pulm Med. 1999 Nov;5(6):339-43.

“In some patients who are dependent on an increased hypoxic drive to breathe, reduced ventilation during added oxygen may reflect the blunted peripheral chemoreceptor stimulation. Therefore, oxygen administration may cause an oxygen-induced suppression of the hypoxic drive to breathe with a consequent decreased minute ventilation and increased PaCO2 level. However, controversial findings have recently been presented. Dick et al.[12] reported that the oxygen-induced change in ventilation is directly determined by two ventilatory response slopes to hypoxia and hypercapnia and to the changes in SaO2 and PaCO2 in patients with COPD. The authors indicate that the decrease in ventilation caused by the oxygen-induced suppression of the hypoxic drive appears to be closely matched to the expected increase in ventilation caused by the increased PaCO2, resulting in no significant change in total ventilation. Based on these observations, they suggest that oxygen-induced hypercapnia does not indicate a failure of the respiratory control mechanism; rather, the increase in PaCO2 is caused by an increase in the dead space to tidal volume ratio [12].”
 
Here is the second half
_______________

4.
A pilot study with 34 patients which does not support the hypothesis that oxygen can lead to hypercapnia:

Oxygen therapy for hypercapnic patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and acute respiratory failure: a randomized, controlled pilot study.
Gomersall CD, Joynt GM, Freebairn RC, Lai CK, Oh TE.
Crit Care Med. 2002 Jan;30(1):113-6.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of oxygen therapy on outcome and on symptomatic hypercapnia. DESIGN: Randomized, controlled, single-blind study. SETTING: Multidisciplinary intensive care unit of a university teaching hospital. PATIENTS: Patients admitted with a clinical diagnosis of an acute exacerbation of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and a PaO2 <6.6 kPa (50 mm Hg) and PaCO2 >6.6 kPa (50 mm Hg) on air. INTERVENTIONS: Patients received oxygen therapy titrated to increase arterial oxygen tension to >6.6 kPa (50 mm Hg) or >9 kPa (70 mm Hg). Patients in the low-oxygen tension group also received doxapram if they developed an acidosis with pH <7.2, whereas those in the high-oxygen tension group received doxapram if they developed symptomatic acidosis. Bronchodilator, steroid, and antibiotic therapy was standardized. MEASUREMENTS AND MAIN RESULTS: Two patients in the low-oxygen tension group (n = 17) required mechanical ventilation and another one died. No patients in the high-oxygen group (n = 17) had a poor outcome, but this difference was not significant. No patient in either group became comatose or developed an acute cardiac arrhythmia. CONCLUSIONS: Traditional teaching related to oxygen therapy for hypercapnic patients with an acute exacerbation of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease may be incorrect. A large randomized, controlled study is required to confirm this impression.
 
and the third half
________________

5.
The editorial which accompanied the above piece. I think this is very even-handed.

Oxygen-induced acute hypercapnia in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease: What's the problem?

Levetown, Marcia MD

"For most of the past decade, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) has been the fourth leading cause of death in the United States, and through 1999 both the number of deaths from COPD and the age-adjusted death rate from the disease continued to increase (1). The natural history of COPD is one of progressive decline in pulmonary function, punctuated by frequent acute chest illnesses caused by infection, congestive heart failure, pneumothorax, or other acute events (2). These exacerbations are treated with bronchodilators, antibiotics, corticosteroids, and supplemental oxygen.

A notorious complication of oxygen therapy during COPD exacerbations is progressive hypercapnia, leading to stupor, profound acidemia, or cardiac dysrhythmias. Such events nearly always result in mechanical ventilation, whether noninvasively by face mask or invasively by endotracheal intubation. Hypercapnia of this magnitude leads, at a minimum, to prolonged hospitalization. Also, because the patients involved have severe obstructive ventilatory defects, they are at high risk for complications of mechanical ventilation, including barotrauma, chronic ventilator dependency, and death. This phenomenon seems to be well publicized in medical schools, although its incidence is completely unclear; students and interns from across the United States and around the world have been able to tell me about it on rounds in the intensive care unit. Almost universally in my experience, their explanation revolves around the loss of a hypercapnic drive for ventilation in chronic CO2-retaining COPD patients and removal of the hypoxic drive to ventilate by administration of supplemental oxygen. As Gomersall and colleagues (3) point out in this issue of Critical Care Medicine, that belief sometimes results in withholding of supplemental oxygen from distressed and hypoxemic COPD patients, in efforts to avoid the necessity for mechanical ventilation.

Although my students are partially correct, the explanation for acutely increasing plasma CO2 tension in this setting is not quite so simple. Working with computer models in the early 1970s, West (4) demonstrated clearly that ventilation-perfusion inequality can lead to chronic CO2 retention and objected to the term “chronic hypoventilation” to describe these patients, on the basis that minute ventilation is actually increased in patients with COPD. Nevertheless, hypercapnic COPD patients breathe with lower tidal volumes than nonhypercapnic COPD patients, and therefore have lower minute alveolar ventilation and increased deadspace ventilation (5, 6). In stable hypercapnic COPD patients, Paco2 increases when patients are exposed to high Fio2; however, there is no correlation of Paco2 increase with measures of ventilatory drive, as measured by P0.1(7). Dunn et al. (8) studied a different measure of ventilatory drive, the CO2 recruitment threshold, in COPD patients who had been ventilated for, on average, a week. They found a small decrease in the CO2-induced ventilatory drive when these patients were exposed to 100% oxygen.

However, patients may behave differently during acute respiratory insufficiency than they do when they are in their stable chronic state (9). Aubier and colleagues (10) demonstrated that administration of 100% oxygen to patients with acute COPD exacerbation resulted in mild decreases (14%) in minute ventilation but in increases in Paco2 out of proportion to the change in minute ventilation, suggesting an increase in deadspace ventilation induced by high Fio2. In a separate series they showed that administration of supplemental oxygen reduced P0.1 in similar COPD patients, but that P0.1 remained three times greater than that of normal controls, indicating that hypoxemia was not the only stimulus for ventilation in these patients (11). Taken together, the data suggest that a complex interaction of reduced hypoxic drive, changes in ventilation-perfusion matching, increases in deadspace ventilation, and to a small extent the added component of the Haldane effect—the unloading of CO2 by hemoglobin in hyperoxic conditions—is responsible for acute CO2 retention in these patients.

Gomersall et al. have taken a more pragmatic approach to the problem by sidestepping the issue of the mechanism of acute CO2 retention and attempting to determine whether patients whose hypoxemia is completely corrected fare worse than those patients in whom relative hypoxemia is tolerated. For this purpose, they defined relative hypoxemia as arterial Pao2 between 50 mm Hg and 70 mm Hg and completely corrected hypoxemia as Pao2 >70 mm Hg. These levels represented the targets for supplemental oxygen administration in patients who presented with room air hypoxemia. The outcomes of interest were mechanical ventilation and death; serial arterial blood gases were examined, and Glasgow Coma Score, respiratory rate, and cardiac rhythm were followed. In 34 evaluated patients, no differences were detected in the rate of mechanical ventilation or death, nor in the serial measurements of Paco2.

The principal strength of this study is its recognition that there is little in the way of evidence for any particular approach to the administration of supplemental oxygen to COPD patients in extremis. In an age when we attempt to treat patients according to empirical evidence, and given the frequency with which COPD patients suffer exacerbations of their disease, the absence of evidence in this area represents a glaring deficiency. I believe that the authors are correct in their call for a larger study to address this issue.

One would need to be careful, however, in using the results of the current study as a basis for a larger study. With only 34 patients analyzed, this study by Gomersall et al. did not have the statistical power to find any but the greatest of differences between the groups, with the majority of one group requiring mechanical ventilation and the majority of the other group not requiring it. Further, there appear to be difficulties in the mechanics of targeting the arterial Pao2 ranges that the authors chose. In actuality, the low Pao2 group in this study achieved an average Pao2 of 63–68 mm Hg—based on the figures provided, since the numbers were not included in the text—whereas the high Pao2 group achieved an average Pao2 of 97–115 mm Hg. Given that studies addressing the mechanism of acute CO2 retention with oxygen administration have typically induced acute CO2 retention by administering 80% to 100% oxygen, it is difficult to know whether the statistically different Pao2 levels in the current study represent a sufficient clinical difference to have engendered a problem. In this study there was, in fact, no difference in serial Paco2 measurements, although again statistical power is lacking.

What sort of clinical study or studies do we need? Given the current state of affairs, I believe that a simple observational study would be a good starting point. My exposure to physicians in numerous locales throughout the United States and my informal polling of numerous colleagues during the writing of this editorial leads me to believe that, in the absence of data, an ad hoc standard for administering supplemental oxygen to COPD patients with acute respiratory insufficiency has evolved, at least in the United States. Roughly stated, that standard appears to be that all patients in the emergency department and the intensive care unit should have continuous Spo2 monitoring, that Spo2 should be maintained in the approximate range of 90% via nasal cannula or Venturi face mask, and that it should probably not exceed 93% to 95%. Since the study of Bone et al. (12) in the mid-1970s, there have been no investigations of the incidence of acute CO2 retention during COPD exacerbation, nor of predictors for its development (7). At the time of that publication, Spo2 monitoring was not readily available, and one could not adjust the flow of supplemental oxygen quickly or continuously in response to continuous measures of oxygenation, as can be done today. What we need now is to understand the magnitude of the problem in the 21st century. I agree with Gomersall et al. that there is a paucity of data."


_______________________________________________________________
This is a controversial area. Till there is more data, I will titrate oxygen for COPD patients who require it to an Sa02 of 90%

Don’t be bullied. Make up your own minds.
 
The references for Dr. Levetown's editorial:


1. Kochanek KD, Smith BL, Anderson RN: Deaths: Preliminary data for 1999. Natl Vital Stat Rep 2001; 49 (3): 1–49

2. American Thoracic Society: ATS guidelines: Diagnosis and care of patients with COPD. Am J Respir Crit Care Med 1995; 152: S77

3. Gomersall CD, Joynt GM, Freebairn RC, et al: Oxygen therapy for hypercapnic patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and acute respiratory failure: A randomized, controlled pilot study. Crit Care Med 2002; 30: 113–116

4. West JB: Causes of carbon dioxide retention in lung disease. N Engl J Med 1971; 284: 1232–

5. Sorli J, Grassino A, Lorange G, et al: Control of breathing in patients with chronic obstructive lung disease. Clin Sci Mol Med 1978; 54: 295–304


6. Javaheri S, Blum J, Kazemi H: Pattern of breathing and carbon dioxide retention in chronic obstructive lung disease. Am J Med 198; 71:228–234

7. Sassoon CSH, Hassell KT, Mahutte KC: Hyperoxic-induced hypercapnia in stable chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Am Rev Respir Dis 1987; 135: 907–911

8. Dunn WF, Nelson SB, Hubmayr RD: Oxygen-induced hypercarbia in obstructive pulmonary disease. Am Rev Respir Dis 1991; 144: 526–530

9. Rudolph M, Banks RA, Semple SJG: Hypercapnia during oxygen therapy in acute exacerbations of chronic respiratory failure: Hypothesis revisited. Lancet 1977; 2: 483–486

10. Aubier M, Murciano D, Milic-Emili J, et al: Effects of the administration of O2 on ventilation and blood gases in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease during acute respiratory failure. Am Rev Respir Dis 1980; 122: 747–754

11. Aubier M, Murciano D, Fournier M, et al: Central respiratory drive in acute respiratory failure of patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Am Rev Respir Dis 1980; 122: 191–199

12. Bone RC, Pierce AK, Johnson RL Jr.: Controlled oxygen administration in acute respiratory failure in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Am J Med 1978; 65: 896–902
 
Tenesma - I'll assume your advice re medschool is well intentioned, rather than an attempt at an insult - I have thick skin.

I am indeed making that transition - I'm an MS2 (of 6!), after 10 years of ICU nursing.

Sad thing is we had a professor (of biochemistry 😡 ) yesterday tell us that more than 28% O2 is dangerous in COPDers. NO mention that hypoventilation rarely or (as you so clearly point out NEVER) happens as a result of O2 admin. So there is another cohort of 200 future docs who will remember "something about O2 admin being bad for COPDers". 🙁

As for my one patient, you're right - I don't know why he stopped breathing- I thought at the time that it was all explained and no-one looked into it any further. Maybe it was a neurological event 😳 . Either way, when his airway was cleared he made no respiratory effort - and so I bagged him, when his Sat came down to low 90's (which I admit may have correlated to when his CO2 came down, or when his transient neurologic event recovered, or when Saturn aligned with Neptune for all I know) he became conscious and had an uncomplicated recovery.

I really didn't intend to be on this side of the argument - as I said I have given copious amounts of O2 to many many hypoxic exac COPD pts. I have had only one problem in all of those times - and as it turns out it was probably coincidental - and it fooled me 😳

Anyway thanks for the info everyone, and apologies to the OP for hijacking.




Tenesma said:
JobsFan: I am glad that you are interested in this topic... My response/advice for you

1) it is time to make the transition from ICU nurse to med student... and learn deductive evidence based reasoning...
2) yes, I am saying that removal of hypoxic drive by giving O2 to a COPDer never leads to resp. arrest (not rare... NEVER... it has never been proven or reported... and trust me, I do a lot of THoracic anesthesia on severe COPDers and I have tried many times 🙂
3) Your ONE case of respiratory arrest most likely had a respiratory arrest for OTHER reasons than O2 supplementation.... it is very hard to have any kind of respiratory arrest unless somebody has significant respiratory acidosis to the point where they are self-narcotizing themselves with their CO2 - in which case they usually obstruct first then have resp. arrest. If you watch somebody go through this you can usually rescue them before they have resp arrest by opening up their airway and assisting their breathing (BiPAP comes to mind)
 
Jobsfan: i wasn't being malicious... one of the sad things about medical education is that the basic science years (non-clinical years) are frequently taught by PhD who provide minimal to no patient care and often rehash the same lecture they have been giving for 20 years... at least that is the case for most institutions.

jdaasbo: thank you for all the literature references which obviously proves my point that there is no evidence to show giving supplemental O2 leads to respiratory arrest or MI (as the OP thought).
 
JobsFan said:
Anyway thanks for the info everyone, and apologies to the OP for hijacking.

no need to apologize ... this is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted. Very informative ... even if there doesn't appear to be a "correct" answer (as with so much of medicine).

I thought this thread was degenerating into personal affronts, but it seems to have pulled itself back into the realm of an academic discussion.

I certainly was a believer of the don't give too much O2 camp until I read it in Harrison's (and now uptodate and the excellent postings here). I have been taught this since physio and on through my medicine/pulmonary postings. It is certainly well ingrained in the medical psyche.

Thanks one and all!
 
Tenesma said:
Jobsfan: i wasn't being malicious... one of the sad things about medical education is that the basic science years (non-clinical years) are frequently taught by PhD who provide minimal to no patient care and often rehash the same lecture they have been giving for 20 years... at least that is the case for most institutions.

Yep, same here. I suppose being taught by PhDs has it's upsides too, I can't imagine you'd get the same level of detail in biochemistry from a clinician. But it'd be best if the PhDs stopped trying to add clinical tidbits to their lectures. They do it to keep people interested I'm sure - but so often they are ill informed, have outdated information or are just plain wrong about clinical things.
 
I think my point was that since there is no CONCLUSIVE evidence either way you should do what is safest for the patient. In my opinion, there is no benefit on the inpatient general medical floor of having a patient with an acute exacerbation of COPD oxygenate to Sao2 of 100% if they are asymptomatic at 90%. There is at least SOME evidence that at higher Sa02 they are at increased risk of harm. I am NOT talking about LTOT (long term oxygen therapy) where i believe that there is good evidence that O2 supplementation has clear benefits (V/Q mismatch, pulmonary vascular resistance, etc).

To quote the Levetown editorial, "...in the absence of data, an ad hoc standard for administering supplemental oxygen to COPD patients with acute respiratory insufficiency has evolved... that standard appears to be that all patients in the emergency department and the intensive care unit should have continuous Spo2 monitoring, that Spo2 should be maintained in the approximate range of 90% via nasal cannula or Venturi face mask, and that it should probably not exceed 93% to 95%."

Tenesma, just because there are no prospective trials which show harm from "over-oxygenating" the the patients with acute exacerbations, does not mean that harm is not done. In this context, it is not that adequate trials have failed to detect harm. Rather, NO adequate trials have been performed. I think you would agree that the clinical setting in your field, whic I take is anesthesia, is markedly different from internal medicine (where you do not have nearly continuous patient contact). Therefore your clinical experience is an apple, whereas mine is an orange, if you will.

I subscribe to the "ad hoc" standard to which Levetown refers.
 
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