Cornell Pre-Med vs Sophie Davis BS/MD

[OkBurgers]

hey guys I have to make an undergrad deposit soon and need some advice on what to do.
I have the option to attend Cornell (CALS) on a Pre-Med track or go to the Sophie Davis school of biomedical education at City College BS/MD

Sophie Davis
-No Mcat
-guaranteed seat to cuny School of med
-BS in 3 years and med for the next 4
-virtually no debt for the first 3 years

Cornell
-name, prestige
-good track record with mcat and end school acceptances
-debt, but nothing I’m too worried about

With both of these choices in mind, should I pursue a degree at Cornell and open up my opportunities to more prestigious med schools and residencies, or go to Sophie , which is now affiliated with CUNY med and since it’s New won’t graduate it’s first class until 2020 (so no stats, rankings).
Also, I’ve been reading that Cornell pre med is rough.
My main thing with Sophie is the name and I don’t want to put myself at a disadvantage for residencies. Does name matter that much?

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[MedScat]

As someone who was in your same position and chose Cornell which now seems so DUMB, as long as you KNOW you want to be a doctor, choose Sophie Davis. I did not choose it because at 18, I felt I was too young to commit to something and boy, was I right. I ended up surrendering my deposit for Cornell and not even starting college at a SUNY school until 2012 (graduated HS in 2009). So, my advice is, if you feel that you know for sure that you will be a disciplined student and you know you want to be a doctor straight out of HS, choose Sophie. There's no stress of the MCAT, you know that you are guaranteed a seat in a CUNY med school. Those are two things that people applying to med school dream to have. If you think you still have some soul searching and need time to find yourself as a person, choose Cornell because there will be more flexibility to do that.

 

[878956]

Like I said in the other posts, go with the guarantee MD program;. You never know what will happen during your undergraduate career. If you KNOW you want to be a doctor then go with the BS/MD program.

In addition, A medical school acceptance isn't a linear path anymore. Applicants have to jump through more and more hoops each cycle to get in. That takes time. Time that could be spent as an attending making 250k+. The BS/MD program will allow you to save an obscene amount of time.

 

[masnerj]

To be devil's advocate, don't be too quick to take the BS/MD route just because its a guaranteed MD spot.

Majority of people that are able to get into BS/MD programs are typically driven/smart/etc enough to be able to get into medical school by going the traditional route. Don't assume the worst case scenario if you don't choose the BS/MD. A new school is not necessarily the best medical route if you have to pigeonhole yourself at this stage.

In my opinion, I'd look at just how much you are paying for 4 years of Cornell. If you are paying full-sticker price and aren't like crazy rich, then yea no question go BS/MD. But if you are getting financial aid or something and paying state-school level (20-25k or something) a year, then I would say go Cornell. The opportunities that you get there will be very different than the ones at the BS portion of the BS/MD. Things like research, networking, etc are intangibles but do actually matter in the real world. And who knows, if you find out that medical school is not what you want to do (which is something that is ALWAYS possible), then you'll be MUCH happier that you chose Cornell.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[efle]

Ask yourself - what compels a brand new school to offer BS/MD? What do they get from doing this very early round of admissions?

The answer as far as I can see is, to grab some very high caliber students who would otherwise never matriculate here, by offering them a sense of security that they don't yet realize is unnecessary for them. Some further evidence of this - you aren't allowed to take the MCAT and apply to other schools. They do their best to outright forbid you from seeing how competitive you'd be for other programs.

In other words, I wouldn't be afraid to turn Sophie down if I was you. 3-4 years from now when it's time to apply you will likely be competitive for much more established programs, like Upstate / Downstate / Stony Brook if you are from NY.

Edit: One other point to add is that it looks like sophie davis/CUNY is all about creating primary care docs for underserved minority populations. If that is what you see yourself doing, then take the BS/MD and don't look back, because you'll be giving special attention to training for that and matching out of a brand new medical school isn't a concern at all. If you instead think you might end up interested in academics or specializing, their mission might not be a great fit:

"The mission of The CUNY School of Medicine (the “CSOM”) is to produce broadly-educated, highly-skilled medical practitioners to provide quality health services to communities historically underserved by primary care practitioners."

 

[PreMedMissteps]

If you’re serious about med school then Sophie Davis is a no-brainer for a few reasons..

Assured admission as long as you meet whatever req’ts they have

No debt (don’t underestimate the undergrad debt that you’d accumulate at Cornell. It will grow while in med school/residency and combined with med school debt, you’d end up with a lot of debt.)

One less year of undergrad

And if you are instate for NY or can gain residency, paying instate rates for med school will mean much less debt later on. If you went the cornell route, you could end up in an expensive private med with a lot more debt. If you’re not instate for NY right now, you might investigate and find out how you can get residency for tuition purposes so that you’re instate when med school starts. That may take a couple of years, so find out now

 

[COMMANDER CLOWN]

Even if this was between CUNY and Harvard, I would still say CUNY. However, the fact that this is CORNELL is what makes it 100% obvious to me that you should go to CUNY. The #1 absolute biggest mistake that a premed can make in high school to jeopardize their entire medical career is going to a well-known grade deflating school like Cornell for undergrad. DO NOT DO THIS. These schools have certain traps to lure you into their undergraduate program.

1.) A high percentage of our class goes to medical school. Reason this is wrong: this statistic isn't accounting for people who drop the premed program. If you have 100 premeds in your freshman class, 50 drop out by senior year, and 40 of the remaining premeds get into med school, you can say that undergrads at your school have an 80% acceptance to medical school when in reality it's 40%.

2.) Med schools will account for prestige/rigor. WRONG. A 4.0 at your local state school trumps a 3.3 at Cornell. Hands down.

Note: I am NOT saying that going to an easier undergraduate program is the CAUSE of easier admission to med school. Everything that I have said only applies to people who have already been accepted into these difficult programs such as Cornell. If you're smart enough to get into Cornell, you're smart enough to get a 3.8 at your state school. Some people might say "isn't the best case scenario to get a 3.8 at Cornell?" Yeah, absolutely. But do you really want to take that risk? Cornell is well known for its grade deflation and you're going to be competing against the best of the best. Do you really want to take the risk of getting out of Cornell with a 3.3? Other people might say "if you want to be a good doctor, you should constantly be challenging yourself". The people who say this have usually watched 1 too many Disney movies and believe that all doctors are the epitome of human morality. Challenging yourself is fine, just as long as you're cool with being a burger flipper who's constantly challenging yourself to flip more burgers with your useless biology degree with a 3.3 GPA from Cornell.

In conclusion, do NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS FOR UNDERGRAD IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU WANT TO DO PREMED: Cornell, Vandy, Berkeley, MIT, Princeton, UChicago.

 

[efle]

In conclusion, do NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS FOR UNDERGRAD IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU WANT TO DO PREMED: Cornell, Vandy, Berkeley, MIT, Princeton, UChicago.

You put Vandy in this list and not Hopkins??

 

[plshelpvanxious]

Is the bs/md binding? In mine we were allowed to apply out at no consequence. Even if it's binding, I'd take it. Your undergrad experience will be much less stressful.

 

[Skarl]

Even if this was between CUNY and Harvard, I would still say CUNY. However, the fact that this is CORNELL is what makes it 100% obvious to me that you should go to CUNY. The #1 absolute biggest mistake that a premed can make in high school to jeopardize their entire medical career is going to a well-known grade deflating school like Cornell for undergrad. DO NOT DO THIS. These schools have certain traps to lure you into their undergraduate program.

1.) A high percentage of our class goes to medical school. Reason this is wrong: this statistic isn't accounting for people who drop the premed program. If you have 100 premeds in your freshman class, 50 drop out by senior year, and 40 of the remaining premeds get into med school, you can say that undergrads at your school have an 80% acceptance to medical school when in reality it's 40%.

2.) Med schools will account for prestige/rigor. WRONG. A 4.0 at your local state school trumps a 3.3 at Cornell. Hands down.

Note: I am NOT saying that going to an easier undergraduate program is the CAUSE of easier admission to med school. Everything that I have said only applies to people who have already been accepted into these difficult programs such as Cornell. If you're smart enough to get into Cornell, you're smart enough to get a 3.8 at your state school. Some people might say "isn't the best case scenario to get a 3.8 at Cornell?" Yeah, absolutely. But do you really want to take that risk? Cornell is well known for its grade deflation and you're going to be competing against the best of the best. Do you really want to take the risk of getting out of Cornell with a 3.3? Other people might say "if you want to be a good doctor, you should constantly be challenging yourself". The people who say this have usually watched 1 too many Disney movies and believe that all doctors are the epitome of human morality. Challenging yourself is fine, just as long as you're cool with being a burger flipper who's constantly challenging yourself to flip more burgers with your useless biology degree with a 3.3 GPA from Cornell.

In conclusion, do NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS FOR UNDERGRAD IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU WANT TO DO PREMED: Cornell, Vandy, Berkeley, MIT, Princeton, UChicago.

I find this type of advice problematic. At the end of the day difficulty is often exaggerated and relative to the student. I would never recommend someone attend an “easier” school for a supposed GPA boost, especially if the “harder” school would allow for more opportunities in terms of research, networking, and prestige. I also question how a student who intentionally picks an “easier” school for a GPA boost performs in medical school and beyond. If you can’t succeed in a supposedly more competitive environment, what makes you think you’ll succeed later, when the level of competition is even higher.

 

[878956]

You put Vandy in this list and not Hopkins??

I have heard that the culture at Hopkins has changed. Essentially, everyone gets straights A's there first year to mitigate the competitive environment.

 

[getdown]

I find this type of advice problematic. At the end of the day difficulty is often exaggerated and relative to the student. I would never recommend someone attend an “easier” school for a supposed GPA boost, especially if the “harder” school would allow for more opportunities in terms of research, networking, and prestige. I also question how a student who intentionally picks an “easier” school for a GPA boost performs in medical school and beyond. If you can’t succeed in a supposedly more competitive environment, what makes you think you’ll succeed later, when the level of competition is even higher.

Medical school admission is a game and like any game there are rules. No one can become a doctor unless they go through medical school first so the ultimate goal for this game is to get in. The rules for this game are pretty simple:
1. get a high GPA.
2. get a high MCAT.
3. don't do anything stupid that jeopardize you chances like IAs
4. Do some side quests: volunteer, research, leadership etc

But the biggest factor is someone's GPA and MCAT. That's how you land your interviews. Doesn't matter where you go to school as long as those two things are high. Since the MCAT is an equalizer among the myriad grading schemes of different schools, doing well here coming from an "easy" school makes your GPA, even if it comes against less rigorous competition, respectable. Undergrad prestige means literally nothing when applying to medical school unless you back it up with a good GPA and MCAT. There's too much variability from school to school and from course to course within schools for an adcom to really know (or care) to give a mental boost to said applicant from "harder" schools. You also mentioned networking. That may matter if you want to do business, law, etc but when it comes to med school admission if you don't make the cut (GPA, MCAT) no one can help you gain admission.

You also question how a student from an "easier" school will do once in med school. The question I have is "who cares? You're already in" It's a rare thing for a medical school to kick someone out once they're in. You have to literally commit a crime or flat out be brain dead for this to happen. I know someone who failed and had to repeat M1 and M2 year each once and took a long time to study and pass STEP1. You know what he's doing right now? Yep, he's a doctor.

If it was up to me and I could redo college, I would for sure take my state school over the private grade deflating school I eventually attended. I would probably be in the same position cause I can guarantee you that my name brand undergrad did absolutely **** for my admission chances.

 

[medguy24]

Even if this was between CUNY and Harvard, I would still say CUNY. However, the fact that this is CORNELL is what makes it 100% obvious to me that you should go to CUNY. The #1 absolute biggest mistake that a premed can make in high school to jeopardize their entire medical career is going to a well-known grade deflating school like Cornell for undergrad. DO NOT DO THIS. These schools have certain traps to lure you into their undergraduate program.

1.) A high percentage of our class goes to medical school. Reason this is wrong: this statistic isn't accounting for people who drop the premed program. If you have 100 premeds in your freshman class, 50 drop out by senior year, and 40 of the remaining premeds get into med school, you can say that undergrads at your school have an 80% acceptance to medical school when in reality it's 40%.

2.) Med schools will account for prestige/rigor. WRONG. A 4.0 at your local state school trumps a 3.3 at Cornell. Hands down.

Note: I am NOT saying that going to an easier undergraduate program is the CAUSE of easier admission to med school. Everything that I have said only applies to people who have already been accepted into these difficult programs such as Cornell. If you're smart enough to get into Cornell, you're smart enough to get a 3.8 at your state school. Some people might say "isn't the best case scenario to get a 3.8 at Cornell?" Yeah, absolutely. But do you really want to take that risk? Cornell is well known for its grade deflation and you're going to be competing against the best of the best. Do you really want to take the risk of getting out of Cornell with a 3.3? Other people might say "if you want to be a good doctor, you should constantly be challenging yourself". The people who say this have usually watched 1 too many Disney movies and believe that all doctors are the epitome of human morality. Challenging yourself is fine, just as long as you're cool with being a burger flipper who's constantly challenging yourself to flip more burgers with your useless biology degree with a 3.3 GPA from Cornell.

In conclusion, do NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS FOR UNDERGRAD IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU WANT TO DO PREMED: Cornell, Vandy, Berkeley, MIT, Princeton, UChicago.

I wish I can like this comment 100 times. OP-don’t even think about going to a grade deflating school like Cornell. If you want to go to your state school for college and to then apply to Med School traditionally in the hopes of getting into a better med school vs going to Sophie Davis—then that’s a valid question. But if it’s Sophie Davis vs Cornell—Sophie Davis wins out.
Even State school for college >>>>>>> Cornell for college.
The goal is to go to Cornell for med school—not for college.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Would not go to a new med school. Go to CUNY if you get to apply to other medical schools without jeopardizing your auto acceptance.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

To be devil's advocate, don't be too quick to take the BS/MD route just because its a guaranteed MD spot.

Majority of people that are able to get into BS/MD programs are typically driven/smart/etc enough to be able to get into medical school by going the traditional route. Don't assume the worst case scenario if you don't choose the BS/MD. A new school is not necessarily the best medical route if you have to pigeonhole yourself at this stage.

In my opinion, I'd look at just how much you are paying for 4 years of Cornell. If you are paying full-sticker price and aren't like crazy rich, then yea no question go BS/MD. But if you are getting financial aid or something and paying state-school level (20-25k or something) a year, then I would say go Cornell. The opportunities that you get there will be very different than the ones at the BS portion of the BS/MD. Things like research, networking, etc are intangibles but do actually matter in the real world. And who knows, if you find out that medical school is not what you want to do (which is something that is ALWAYS possible), then you'll be MUCH happier that you chose Cornell.

Just my 2 cents.

This isn't true in the least. You can't assume that you'll continue to be a high performer just because you were one before in a totally different context - people in BS/MD programmes are in many ways pipelined into the MD portion of the programme and don't go through the same degree of sieving and weeding out that traditional grads do.

Ask yourself - what compels a brand new school to offer BS/MD? What do they get from doing this very early round of admissions?

The answer as far as I can see is, to grab some very high caliber students who would otherwise never matriculate here, by offering them a sense of security that they don't yet realize is unnecessary for them. Some further evidence of this - you aren't allowed to take the MCAT and apply to other schools. They do their best to outright forbid you from seeing how competitive you'd be for other programs.

In other words, I wouldn't be afraid to turn Sophie down if I was you. 3-4 years from now when it's time to apply you will likely be competitive for much more established programs, like Upstate / Downstate / Stony Brook if you are from NY.

Edit: One other point to add is that it looks like sophie davis/CUNY is all about creating primary care docs for underserved minority populations. If that is what you see yourself doing, then take the BS/MD and don't look back, because you'll be giving special attention to training for that and matching out of a brand new medical school isn't a concern at all. If you instead think you might end up interested in academics or specializing, their mission might not be a great fit:

"The mission of The CUNY School of Medicine (the “CSOM”) is to produce broadly-educated, highly-skilled medical practitioners to provide quality health services to communities historically underserved by primary care practitioners."

Firstly, the Sophie Davis programme has been around for decades and while CSOM is a new entity, the calibre and rigour of the Sophie Davis programme is known - especially in the NYC area. They place very well at good residency programmes in all specialties, not just pricare.

Secondly, a new MD school is still an MD school and your chances of matching well given that you work hard enough is there. Will you be matching MGH or Hopkins? Probs not - but there isn't anything stopping you from matching your specialty of choice should you be willing to put the time in.

The reality is we can't say if OP will be likely competitive for established SUNY programmes - most premed freshmen regardless of undergrad school tier never get to the point of applying for medical school, much less getting in. Turning down a bird in the hand for two in the bush is foolish if OP knows they're set on medicine.

 

[efle]

This isn't true in the least. You can't assume that you'll continue to be a high performer just because you were one before in a totally different context - people in BS/MD programmes are in many ways pipelined into the MD portion of the programme and don't go through the same degree of sieving and weeding out that traditional grads do.




Firstly, the Sophie Davis programme has been around for decades and while CSOM is a new entity, the calibre and rigour of the Sophie Davis programme is known - especially in the NYC area. They place very well at good residency programmes in all specialties, not just pricare.

Secondly, a new MD school is still an MD school and your chances of matching well given that you work hard enough is there. Will you be matching MGH or Hopkins? Probs not - but there isn't anything stopping you from matching your specialty of choice should you be willing to put the time in.

The reality is we can't say if OP will be likely competitive for established SUNY programmes - most premed freshmen regardless of undergrad school tier never get to the point of applying for medical school, much less getting in. Turning down a bird in the hand for two in the bush is foolish if OP knows they're set on medicine.

1 - the MD school being new is what devalues the BS/MD in my opinion, not the quality of the BS part

2 - I have always found the argument "you can just compensate for being at a new program by working harder and doing better" very unconvincing. It doesn't make sense to put yourself in a position where the bar is raised higher for you than it needed to be.

3 - I personally would not worry at all about a typical Cornell student's ability to survive the academics at SUNY undergrad. To me, it is crazy for a Cornell type student to be so scared of SUNY academics that they commit as a teenager to a brand new, mission based MD program that won't allow them to take the MCAT or consider applying out.

 

[DokterMom]

You have [at least] two paths before you:

• The safer, easier, guaranteed option that nets you admission to a new, lower-tier US MD school with a pronounced primary care focus. Period; the end. If you have the chops for a top med school, too bad. If you want to be a neurosurgeon, it'll still be possible, but you'll be starting in a hole. If you decide you actually don't want to be a physician after all, then you've got a low-cost, low-prestige degree with not-great employment prospects. But also low debt. In that sense, it's somewhat of a "no lose" situation -- but also a "limited win."

• Or the high stakes 'go for the gold' option with many opportunities but no guarantees beyond a fabulous education that will develop your intellect and enrich your life. As an NY resident, CALS is inexpensive - one of the world's great bargains. Yes, you'll have to work considerably harder for your grades, but if you're capable, the rewards will be worth it. And I call BS on the 'school prestige doesn't matter at all' bit. Yeah, GPA is important, but Cornell is still Cornell, and as a known deflator (which it is), you will get a bit of leeway. A relatively low GPA at Cornell is still competitive for lower-tier medical schools; but a high GPA from Cornell is competitive anywhere. (You really can't say that for CUNY) And if you decide you don't want to be a physician, Cornell's research and networking opportunities should not be underestimated. With a Cornell degree you can go pretty much anywhere and do anything...

So are you a risk taker? Are you willing to bet big on yourself? Which downside are you more comfortable living with? Cutting off your best options or eliminating the worst?

 

[Lexdiamondz]

1 - the MD school being new is what devalues the BS/MD in my opinion, not the quality of the BS part

2 - I have always found the argument "you can just compensate for being at a new program by working harder and doing better" very unconvincing. It doesn't make sense to put yourself in a position where the bar is raised higher for you than it needed to be.

3 - I personally would not worry at all about a typical Cornell student's ability to survive the academics at SUNY undergrad. To me, it is crazy for a Cornell type student to be so scared of SUNY academics that they commit as a teenager to a brand new, mission based MD program that won't allow them to take the MCAT or consider applying out.

1 - that's fine and not an unreasonable opinion

2 - I'm not saying that. If you want a competitive specialty or academic medicine you have to work hard regardless and being at a new MD school isn't going to change that.

3 - Truthfully, there's almost nothing about an 18 year old that tells you whether they could survive Medical school. Assuming a pre-freshman "Cornell-type student" will even get into a SUNY, much less thrive, is a HUUUUUGE and almost entirely baseless assumption . Most Cornell premed freshmen never make it to the application stage, never mind matriculate.

 

[efle]

1 - that's fine and not an unreasonable opinion

2 - I'm not saying that. If you want a competitive specialty or academic medicine you have to work hard regardless and being at a new MD school isn't going to change that.

3 - Truthfully, there's almost nothing about an 18 year old that tells you whether they could survive Medical school. Assuming a pre-freshman "Cornell-type student" will even get into a SUNY, much less thrive, is a HUUUUUGE and almost entirely baseless assumption . Most Cornell premed freshmen never make it to the application stage, never mind matriculate.

How can you agree with 1 but not with 2? The reason the new school is less attractive is because matching something competitive is easier coming from an established program. For example: If you want a competitive specialty you have to work hard regardless and being at a DO school isn't going to change that. It's a cop out to say that. It can be hard in all cases, but harder in some.

I think my 3rd one was worded confusingly. I said I wouldn't worry about a Cornell admit surviving the academics at SUNY undergrad. What I'm saying is that a mediocre bird in hand isn't always worth a bunch of better birds in the bush, when you're a very capable bird catcher. If OP is worried about doing well at Cornell, I think the next best move still isn't sophie davis, it's to go to SUNY as a regular pre med. Don't have to worry so much about competitiveness, but can apply to medical school normally instead of being locked into a new school with an underserved primary care mission that might not fit.

 

[892002]

Even if this was between CUNY and Harvard, I would still say CUNY. However, the fact that this is CORNELL is what makes it 100% obvious to me that you should go to CUNY. The #1 absolute biggest mistake that a premed can make in high school to jeopardize their entire medical career is going to a well-known grade deflating school like Cornell for undergrad. DO NOT DO THIS. These schools have certain traps to lure you into their undergraduate program.

1.) A high percentage of our class goes to medical school. Reason this is wrong: this statistic isn't accounting for people who drop the premed program. If you have 100 premeds in your freshman class, 50 drop out by senior year, and 40 of the remaining premeds get into med school, you can say that undergrads at your school have an 80% acceptance to medical school when in reality it's 40%.

2.) Med schools will account for prestige/rigor. WRONG. A 4.0 at your local state school trumps a 3.3 at Cornell. Hands down.

Note: I am NOT saying that going to an easier undergraduate program is the CAUSE of easier admission to med school. Everything that I have said only applies to people who have already been accepted into these difficult programs such as Cornell. If you're smart enough to get into Cornell, you're smart enough to get a 3.8 at your state school. Some people might say "isn't the best case scenario to get a 3.8 at Cornell?" Yeah, absolutely. But do you really want to take that risk? Cornell is well known for its grade deflation and you're going to be competing against the best of the best. Do you really want to take the risk of getting out of Cornell with a 3.3? Other people might say "if you want to be a good doctor, you should constantly be challenging yourself". The people who say this have usually watched 1 too many Disney movies and believe that all doctors are the epitome of human morality. Challenging yourself is fine, just as long as you're cool with being a burger flipper who's constantly challenging yourself to flip more burgers with your useless biology degree with a 3.3 GPA from Cornell.

In conclusion, do NOT GO TO THESE SCHOOLS FOR UNDERGRAD IF YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU WANT TO DO PREMED: Cornell, Vandy, Berkeley, MIT, Princeton, UChicago.

As a Vandy Graduate, I want to say that people should definitely consider Vandy for pre-med!

“If you want to be a good doctor, you should be constantly challenging yourself!!” 🙂

 

[masnerj]

As someone that attends one of these "grade deflation" schools and knows of situations at some of the others, I can say that a lot of it is exaggerated. We aren't talking about an automatic 4.0 -> 3.3 drop off for everyone. Sure some people can't handle it. Others might thrive it in. Yes you will need to work hard, but it isn't anything completely unreasonable. And from what I know and from what I have heard from others, med schools do recognize that certain schools have harsher grading policies and although most might not numerically account for this, it is taken into consideration.

Don't assume that just because you go to Cornell or a similar school that you will automatically drop off the map. If you work hard, and are driven to pursue medicine, you can and WILL succeed as a pre-med.

 

[rad56]

Question to those who got into the Sophie Davis program: What was your academics/extracurricular and anything that you think helped you to get in as the interview phases and all? I think the Sophie Davis program is pretty cool for what it guarantees you and in the end you'll really get what you want in terms of being a doctor 🙂) also, update: what'd you end up choosing just out of curiosity and how is that path for you so far?

 

[IMslope12]

Ask yourself - what compels a brand new school to offer BS/MD? What do they get from doing this very early round of admissions?

The answer as far as I can see is, to grab some very high caliber students who would otherwise never matriculate here, by offering them a sense of security that they don't yet realize is unnecessary for them. Some further evidence of this - you aren't allowed to take the MCAT and apply to other schools. They do their best to outright forbid you from seeing how competitive you'd be for other programs.

In other words, I wouldn't be afraid to turn Sophie down if I was you. 3-4 years from now when it's time to apply you will likely be competitive for much more established programs, like Upstate / Downstate / Stony Brook if you are from NY.

Edit: One other point to add is that it looks like sophie davis/CUNY is all about creating primary care docs for underserved minority populations. If that is what you see yourself doing, then take the BS/MD and don't look back, because you'll be giving special attention to training for that and matching out of a brand new medical school isn't a concern at all. If you instead think you might end up interested in academics or specializing, their mission might not be a great fit:

"The mission of The CUNY School of Medicine (the “CSOM”) is to produce broadly-educated, highly-skilled medical practitioners to provide quality health services to communities historically underserved by primary care practitioners."

I'd just like to comment on this for future readers as this reply is fraught with misleading information. A. Sophie Davis and its 7-year premise are not brand new. It has been around since I believe 1973, the CUNY SOM has just recently evolved from Sophie Davis. B. You ARE absolutely allowed to take the MCAT and apply wherever you want. And they DO NOT outright forbid anything of the sorts you're mentioning. In fact, they really don't talk about this much at all, so applying and taking the MCAT is all your prerogative. Though I'm sure they'd be there to help if that was your desire. C. While they do have an emphasis on primary care, they in no way restrict you to it. They train you just as any other medical school maybe with some more emphasis on social medicine/American healthcare/ and primary care classes during the BS portion.

 

[efle]

I'd just like to comment on this for future readers as this reply is fraught with misleading information. A. Sophie Davis and its 7-year premise are not brand new. It has been around since I believe 1973, the CUNY SOM has just recently evolved from Sophie Davis. B. You ARE absolutely allowed to take the MCAT and apply wherever you want. And they DO NOT outright forbid anything of the sorts you're mentioning. In fact, they really don't talk about this much at all, so applying and taking the MCAT is all your prerogative. Though I'm sure they'd be there to help if that was your desire. C. While they do have an emphasis on primary care, they in no way restrict you to it. They train you just as any other medical school maybe with some more emphasis on social medicine/American healthcare/ and primary care classes during the BS portion.

Not Sophie Davis college overall - how old is the 7-year BS/MD with CUNY itself? It's new.

Did they change it to non-binding? Swear it used to be binding and taking the MCAT and applying elsewhere relinquished your guaranteed spot.

No restriction - so for example they definitely don't have a Service Agreement all about getting trained in primary care and practicing for a while in an underserved area???

"Upon completing their residency training in primary care, graduates fulfill their commitment by working as a full-time primary care physician in a community health center, clinic, private practice, or other ambulatory setting in a designated primary care physician shortage area. For many program graduates, this experience marks the beginning of a long-term dedication to service as a primary care physician in an underserved community."

 

[IMslope12]

Not Sophie Davis college overall - how old is the 7-year BS/MD with CUNY itself? It's new.

Did they change it to non-binding? Swear it used to be binding and taking the MCAT and applying elsewhere relinquished your guaranteed spot.

No restriction - so for example they definitely don't have a Service Agreement all about getting trained in primary care and practicing for a while in an underserved area???

"Upon completing their residency training in primary care, graduates fulfill their commitment by working as a full-time primary care physician in a community health center, clinic, private practice, or other ambulatory setting in a designated primary care physician shortage area. For many program graduates, this experience marks the beginning of a long-term dedication to service as a primary care physician in an underserved community."

Yes, the sophie davis 7 year program has been around for a long time. The difference is now it's called CUNY SOM and you graduate with an MD degree in house. It was never binding in that you could take the MCAT and apply if you wish. As long as you didn't matriculate into another school, you would you retain your spot. Obviously if you enrolled in another medical school you would lose your seat in Sophie.

As for the service agreement, that has been terminated completely. So yes, the school does encourage primary care, but in no way forces you to do so. Like I mentioned, in reality it's a few extra undergrad classes in social medicine, and what not.

And just as an aside, while there USED to be the service agreement, you could still specialize in whatever you wanted, as many graduates have. The service agreement required you to pay an extra 70K if you did so. HOWEVER, even with that 70K penalty, you would still end up paying less than you would at almost any other MD school in the US, as the first 2 years of med school were CUNY price aka approx. $6K. Now however, they pay the same as other SUNY's such as downstate for all 4 years during the graduate portion of the degree.

 

[efle]

Yes, the sophie davis 7 year program has been around for a long time. The difference is now it's called CUNY SOM and you graduate with an MD degree in house. It was never binding in that you could take the MCAT and apply if you wish. As long as you didn't matriculate into another school, you would you retain your spot. Obviously if you enrolled in another medical school you would lose your seat in Sophie.

As for the service agreement, that has been terminated completely. So yes, the school does encourage primary care, but in no way forces you to do so. Like I mentioned, in reality it's a few extra undergrad classes in social medicine, and what not.

And just as an aside, while there USED to be the service agreement, you could still specialize in whatever you wanted, as many graduates have. The service agreement required you to pay an extra 70K if you did so. HOWEVER, even with that 70K penalty, you would still end up paying less than you would at almost any other MD school in the US, as the first 2 years of med school were CUNY price aka approx. $6K. Now however, they pay the same as other SUNY's such as downstate for all 4 years during the graduate portion of the degree.

Very interesting to hear that it's non-binding, all the previous times I've seen discussions about it the people considering matriculating have said it was binding. And also weird they're keeping their website out of date on things as major as primary care commitment. Even weirder that when I looked it up last time, it looked like the clinical years had always been done elsewhere and it was brand spanking new for the actual clinical portions of the MD to be done at the current training site.

No wonder I was providing misleading information. If

1) they often help their students apply elsewhere to see what their options are,
2) they killed the agreement part that is still showing on their website, and
3) the current CUNY site has been used for 3rd and 4th year clinical training for decades,

then anyone reading this in the future should disregard this thread and any other online sources of information and just call up the school directly with any questions.

 

[IMslope12]

Very interesting to hear that it's non-binding, all the previous times I've seen discussions about it the people considering matriculating have said it was binding. And also weird they're keeping their website out of date on things as major as primary care commitment. Even weirder that when I looked it up last time, it looked like the clinical years had always been done elsewhere and it was brand spanking new for the actual clinical portions of the MD to be done at the current training site.

No wonder I was providing misleading information. If

1) they often help their students apply elsewhere to see what their options are,
2) they killed the agreement part that is still showing on their website, and
3) the current CUNY site has been used for 3rd and 4th year clinical training for decades,

then anyone reading this in the future should disregard this thread and any other online sources of information and just call up the school directly with any questions.

No, you were right that the last 2 clinical years were done elsewhere until this year. My point was that has nothing to do with the program being 7 years. It was a 7-year program when clinicals were done elsewhere, and it is 7 years now, which I was just pointing out because it seemed as if you were stating they made it 7 years recently to incentivize people to come into the program.

But yes, the contract for the primary care agreement has been completely terminated.

And while I wouldn't say they necessarily went out of their way to HELP you find programs, they wouldn't not let you, and you could always turn to general CCNY for help in that regard, possibly even sophie itself.