Correcting one's title from Ms. to Dr.

[PsychologyToday1984]

Hi everyone,

I am currently completing my postdoc site at a therapeutic school. Everyone is very friendly to each other and it's a great work environment. We refer to each with titles, so we say (Mr. Ms. or Dr based on the degree the person has earned) in front of students. When there are no students present, we sometimes call each other with our titles or by a first name. My purpose in saying that is that there are some people who are more formal than others. **Note: my closest coworkers and I (other psychologists and social workers and psychiatrists all call each other by our first names***)

I have a lot of coworkers (non clinical, like teachers or behavioral staff) and some of them refer me as Dr. X but there are a few who call me Ms. X. I brought this up to my partner and my partner, who is much more assertive than I am, said that I should politely correct these coworkers or even make a lighthearted comment about how I go by as Dr. X. I am new to being called Dr, so I feel a little uncomfortable with the title still... I am working on it 🙂 I kind of let it slide, because I just dont really know how to correct them nor do i know if i need to.

Just curious to hear some thoughts from some of you who have already earned your doctorates. Would you correct some of these coworkers so that they call you doctor? If so, how would you do it? Or would you not?

Thanks!

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[deleted480308]

1. If a number of docs are referred to as mr/ms then it's not personal, just informal

2. If you have/do call anyone mr/ms who is a dr then it's hard to expect others to do not treat you the same

3. Given 1-2, if you just are going to expect/demand to be referred to as dr don't be coy about it. Be civil but direct and relay expectations. "Hey, I know we have different levels of formality here but I would prefer to be addressed as Dr, thank you for understanding". And then repeat yourself every time it happens.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I rarely correct people, but also I have observed that there might be a gender disparity in this. As a male, I have always seemed to get the dr. title more than my female colleagues, even before I had earned the title. it might be more important for a Ms. to address this than a Mr. Perhaps letting some coworkers who would agree about this inequality as opposed to personalizing it might be effective.

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

1. If a number of docs are referred to as mr/ms then it's not personal, just informal

2. If you have/do call anyone mr/ms who is a dr then it's hard to expect others to do not treat you the same

3. Given 1-2, if you just are going to expect/demand to be referred to as dr don't be coy about it. Be civil but direct and relay expectations. "Hey, I know we have different levels of formality here but I would prefer to be addressed as Dr, thank you for understanding". And then repeat yourself every time it happens.

Thank you for your response.

1. I am the newest psychologist, and it seems like i am the only psychologist who is being called Ms. X instead of Dr. X. I genuinely believe it is because these coworkers don't know me as well and aren't sure what my title is. I call ALL doctors by Dr. I call everyone else Ms. or Mr.

2. I am not expecting nor demanding it from anyone. In fact, I don't say anything, but I'm not sure if I should be politely correcting them.

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

I rarely correct people, but also I have observed that there might be a gender disparity in this. As a male, I have always seemed to get the dr. title more than my female colleagues, even before I had earned the title. it might be more important for a Ms. to address this than a Mr. Perhaps letting some coworkers who would agree about this inequality as opposed to personalizing it might be effective.

Interesting point. Thanks for responding!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Thank you for your response.

1. I am the newest psychologist, and it seems like i am the only psychologist who is being called Ms. X instead of Dr. X. I genuinely believe it is because these coworkers don't know me as well and aren't sure what my title is. I call ALL doctors by Dr. I call everyone else Ms. or Mr.

2. I am not expecting nor demanding it from anyone. In fact, I don't say anything, but I'm not sure if I should be politely correcting them.

You've probably already done this but make sure your email signature includes the PhD part. Observant people will notice this. Occasionally I get Ms at work but it doesn't particularly bother me in the setting where I am; I'm in several different roles depending on the day and a lot of the people I work with are master's level / social workers and as long as I feel like there's an adequate amount of mutual respect for the work, I don't bother correcting- and if I'm addressed as Ms in front of kids I think it's less intimidating. I might feel differently if I was still working in a hospital setting though.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Thank you for your response.

1. I am the newest psychologist, and it seems like i am the only psychologist who is being called Ms. X instead of Dr. X. I genuinely believe it is because these coworkers don't know me as well and aren't sure what my title is. I call ALL doctors by Dr. I call everyone else Ms. or Mr.

2. I am not expecting nor demanding it from anyone. In fact, I don't say anything, but I'm not sure if I should be politely correcting them.

Once you try it (correcting them), you'll find it easier to do. I know people used to call me "Dr." when I was an extern, and I was then compelled (appropriately so) to correct them, by saying "not yet" or "I'm still in training."

So, this is a sticky situation because it sounds like it's happening among colleagues, coworkers, students, and not among patient/client introductions. It is easier when it's to the benefit of patients/clients IMO.

In my mind, the most important factor in correcting anyone who misrepresents your professional title is informed consent, meaning your clients and patients need to be aware of who exactly will be providing their services. If someone says "You'll be meeting with Ms. CheetahGirl..." I chime in and say "Actually, it's Dr. CheetahGirl. I'm the clinical psychologist who will be working with you today, but you can call me 'Cheetah (my first name)." And usually address the 'I'm a clinical psychologist' part to the person/patient/client directly. And I always present this new information in a jovial, collegial way (with a smile), so as not to make others (those who misspoke) feel awkward or to appear arrogant. (And academically, I always present myself as a fellow b/c technically, I am a postdoc still.)

I found certain populations do need to hear about your training and title, and truly care about the degree you hold, especially when it comes to the care or assessment they will receive.

For students...perhaps it will be the same. I suggest that you can correct others when they say, "This is Ms. PsychologyToday," by chiming in to say (with a smile) "Actually, it's Dr. PsychologyToday, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I'll be teaching your class, supervising, here to consult, etc."

Perhaps over time, we won't care so much, but (when we've worked so hard to achieve what we have) I want how I am presented to be accurate, in the same vein as when I corrected people who presented me as more of what I was before I earned that status.

 

[PsyDr]

When I was starting out, I saw this coming from a few different angles.

1) People who have trouble with young looking people in authority. Mostly I just played to their narcissism by either saying something about how we are all looking younger these days, or telling them that you were always taught to address someone by their title unless it was a social thing, etc. Typically the nice ones would fix it, and the malignant ones would escalate by calling me by my first name. I just retaliated uh shortening their name and used the names "bob" or "jo" after their names (e.g., Jim bob, sallie jo." When they said something I replied that I thought we were just calling each other by nicknames, and asked To straighten it out.

2) people who have gender problems. I don't know why, but an older female admin just reallly hated me as a male. Like telling me to carry her crap to her car regularly. I refused. If she called me mister, I said something g like, "oh, it's doctor".

3) people who are just trying to discount your profession. Attorneys love this stuff. I just point out the inconsistencies. "Counselor, I can't help but notice you seem to have no trouble remembering to address the judge by his title. Since it doesn't seem to be a memory problem, can I ask that you address me as Dr.? Or are you trying to estblaish a social relationship?"

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

Once you try it (correcting them), you'll find it easier to do. I know people used to call me "Dr." when I was an extern, and I was then compelled (appropriately so) to correct them, by saying "not yet" or "I'm still in training."

So, this is a sticky situation because it sounds like it's happening among colleagues, coworkers, students, and not among patient/client introductions. It is easier when it's to the benefit of patients/clients IMO.

In my mind, the most important factor in correcting anyone who misrepresents your professional title is informed consent, meaning your clients and patients need to be aware of who exactly will be providing their services. If someone says "You'll be meeting with Ms. CheetahGirl..." I chime in and say "Actually, it's Dr. CheetahGirl. I'm the clinical psychologist who will be working with you today, but you can call me 'Cheetah (my first name)." And usually address the 'I'm a clinical psychologist' part to the person/patient/client directly. And I always present this new information in a jovial, collegial way (with a smile), so as not to make others (those who misspoke) feel awkward or to appear arrogant. (And academically, I always present myself as a fellow b/c technically, I am a postdoc still.)

I found certain populations do need to hear about your training and title, and truly care about the degree you hold, especially when it comes to the care or assessment they will receive.

For students...perhaps it will be the same. I suggest that you can correct others when they say, "This is Ms. PsychologyToday," by chiming in to say (with a smile) "Actually, it's Dr. PsychologyToday, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I'll be teaching your class, supervising, here to consult, etc."

Perhaps over time, we won't care so much, but (when we've worked so hard to achieve what we have) I want how I am presented to be accurate, in the same vein as when I corrected people who presented me as more of what I was before I earned that status.

Thanks for your response! I totally agree with you, if they said it in front of a student (i work at a therapeutic school) I would correct it because i want the student (aka my client) to know my title. However, it is happening in the hallways, by very friendly coworkers. "Hi Ms Psychologytoday! How are you?" "Good morning Ms. Psychology Today." But yet these coworkers call the other psychologists Doctor. I don't think they are purposefully calling me by a different name, but they just don't know me as well nor do they interact professionally with me as much as I do with some other staff members. Is it worth it to correct them in the hallway? Do you know what I mean?

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

When I was starting out, I saw this coming from a few different angles.

1) People who have trouble with young looking people in authority. Mostly I just played to their narcissism by either saying something about how we are all looking younger these days, or telling them that you were always taught to address someone by their title unless it was a social thing, etc. Typically the nice ones would fix it, and the malignant ones would escalate by calling me by my first name. I just retaliated uh shortening their name and used the names "bob" or "jo" after their names (e.g., Jim bob, sallie jo." When they said something I replied that I thought we were just calling each other by nicknames, and asked To straighten it out.

2) people who have gender problems. I don't know why, but an older female admin just reallly hated me as a male. Like telling me to carry her crap to her car regularly. I refused. If she called me mister, I said something g like, "oh, it's doctor".

3) people who are just trying to discount your profession. Attorneys love this stuff. I just point out the inconsistencies. "Counselor, I can't help but notice you seem to have no trouble remembering to address the judge by his title. Since it doesn't seem to be a memory problem, can I ask that you address me as Dr.? Or are you trying to estblaish a social relationship?"

Interesting anecdotes. Thank you for sharing your experiences! I appreciated hearing how you asked others to address you as doctor-its hard to do!

 

[CheetahGirl]

Thanks for your response! I totally agree with you, if they said it in front of a student (i work at a therapeutic school) I would correct it because i want the student (aka my client) to know my title. However, it is happening in the hallways, by very friendly coworkers. "Hi Ms Psychologytoday! How are you?" "Good morning Ms. Psychology Today." But yet these coworkers call the other psychologists Doctor. I don't think they are purposefully calling me by a different name, but they just don't know me as well nor do they interact professionally with me as much as I do with some other staff members. Is it worth it to correct them in the hallway? Do you know what I mean?

If it were me, I would.

I would phrase it (when the time is right...like at the infamous 'water cooler'): "Hey, it is not a big deal to me personally, but professionally, I just wanted to point out that I'm one of the new psychologists here; so I have a doctorate. I thought it was important to share, just in case it ever came up professionally. But you certainly don't need to call me 'Dr. PsychologyToday,' you can call me just "Psychology,' if you'd like." (If you don't mind being on a first name basis, or else leave that last part out, and don't forget that big jovial smile to ease the awkwardness, right?)

Again, personally, I would be slightly irritated with the microtransgression, but that mircotransgression (incorrectly addressing someone professionally) could potentially lead to bigger things (probably won't but...I say advocate for getting everyone on the same page). Hey, I work with physicians, and they would not let anyone slide by calling them Ms. or Mr., so that's where I've borrowed my ego-strength about the issue. 😉

 

[Pragma]

I personally hate titles. Only really use them with inpatients. I'll tell a patient that I'm a neuropsychologist and ask them if they have any questions about the process.

Whenever I hear someone correct someone asking to be addressed by their title, it just comes off as insecure to me. Just my opinion when it comes to colleagues - I'd probably pull a PsyDr and call them by their first name if it bothered me and I wanted to force a change.

Let your actions speak for themselves. I've never corrected someone if they have made the mistake and I tell people they can call me whatever they want. I think confidence, competence, and social skills speak for themselves.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I dunno - Confidence, competence, and skills don't really present themselves upon first-meetings (maybe confidence, but also arrogance). I personally don't think my past clarification (or suggestions to do so) have come across as appearing insecure or boastful. [Just wanted to put this out there for the sake of being argumentative.]

@Pragma, you may be coming from a different perspective because there are ZERO master-level neuropsychologists, so initially one would not assume you'd be practicing your specialization after 2-3 years of training (quite the contrary, right?). However, if you generally refer to yourself as a "therapist," then you enter a broad category among various degrees and skill sets. And IMO clarification is helpful.

At the end of the day, I have everyone (except my siblings) refer to me by my first-name (after they are clear about who is treating them per informed consent), and only my siblings are required to call me "Dr." Ha, ha.

I personally hate titles. Only really use them with inpatients. I'll tell a patient that I'm a neuropsychologist and ask them if they have any questions about the process.

Whenever I hear someone correct someone asking to be addressed by their title, it just comes off as insecure to me. Just my opinion when it comes to colleagues - I'd probably pull a PsyDr and call them by their first name if it bothered me and I wanted to force a change.

Let your actions speak for themselves. I've never corrected someone if they have made the mistake and I tell people they can call me whatever they want. I think confidence, competence, and social skills speak for themselves.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As a white male it hasn't come up much, but one of the times it did I adressed it by saying that in front of pts call me Dr. XXX, but with colleagues (first name) is fine.

The only other time it came up was very passive aggressive and their boss corrected them. I honestly don't care, but they were frustrated about a difference of opinion (capacity) and I just let it go. It's easier being a white male, as I also dress in a suit (since everyone has white coats these days), but I have seen it much more often w my female colleagues. I use Dr. XYZ for them (w pts and staff who aren't friends/regulars) bc I want to make sure they are shown the professional respect that sometimes wains.

 

[erg923]

Hi everyone,

I am currently completing my postdoc site at a therapeutic school. Everyone is very friendly to each other and it's a great work environment. We refer to each with titles, so we say (Mr. Ms. or Dr based on the degree the person has earned) in front of students. When there are no students present, we sometimes call each other with our titles or by a first name. My purpose in saying that is that there are some people who are more formal than others. **Note: my closest coworkers and I (other psychologists and social workers and psychiatrists all call each other by our first names***)

I have a lot of coworkers (non clinical, like teachers or behavioral staff) and some of them refer me as Dr. X but there are a few who call me Ms. X. I brought this up to my partner and my partner, who is much more assertive than I am, said that I should politely correct these coworkers or even make a lighthearted comment about how I go by as Dr. X. I am new to being called Dr, so I feel a little uncomfortable with the title still... I am working on it 🙂 I kind of let it slide, because I just dont really know how to correct them nor do i know if i need to.

Just curious to hear some thoughts from some of you who have already earned your doctorates. Would you correct some of these coworkers so that they call you doctor? If so, how would you do it? Or would you not?

Thanks!

I correct them if they write "Mr."in the chart/EMR, or if they refer to me as "Mr. X" to patients directly. Otherwise, I think its bit silly so long as they actually know I'm a psychologist.

 

[Pragma]

Agree entirely that it is different for white men. I try to proactively use titles with colleagues until I know their preferences. But the few cases I've seen someone "correct" someone it has been a white male.

It's just a personal stance. Some people get into the profession for the title which I think is silly and the overemphasis on it makes us look bad to other disciplines. I find that by earning respect for the quality work that you do, this is a nonissue as time passes. I remember a physician colleague correcting someone for me once, but I didn't really care to begin with. I have great relationships with non-doctoral colleagues as well, perhaps in part by not dwelling on this.

Different places have different cultures around this. Most everywhere I have been has been very casual about titles, all the way up to the physicians too, when we're talking about colleague to colleague interaction. That's how I believe it should be.

 

[WisNeuro]

In front of students, patients, or in forensic settings, it's Dr. Anywhere else, and I could give a ****. In social/non-professional situations, I refuse to call other Drs, Dr. Just seems silly.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I dunno - Confidence, competence, and skills don't really present themselves upon first-meetings (maybe confidence, but also arrogance). I personally don't think my past clarification (or suggestions to do so) have come across as appearing insecure or boastful. [Just wanted to put this out there for the sake of being argumentative.]

@Pragma, you may be coming from a different perspective because there are ZERO master-level neuropsychologists, so initially one would not assume you'd be practicing your specialization after 2-3 years of training (quite the contrary, right?). However, if you generally refer to yourself as a "therapist," then you enter a broad category among various degrees and skill sets. And IMO clarification is helpful.

At the end of the day, I have everyone (except my siblings) refer to me by my first-name (after they are clear about who is treating them per informed consent), and only my siblings are required to call me "Dr." Ha, ha.

When my siblings call me doctor they are either being sarcastic or they want some free clinical advice. Eaelier in training it was almost always the former, now it's almost always the latter. I miss the sarcasm. 🙂

 

[ClinicalABA]

I don't know about all this. I think it's very difficult to directly suggest people call you "Dr." without coming across as a little full of oneself. Let someone else correct them. As long as they are aware of your skills and position (e.g. make appropriate referrals; ask you for appropriate input or feedback). If it's policy and you are the person's supervision, you could deferentially correct them ("I know it's a little silly, and it doen't bother me either way, but it's policy here to refer to people with their title"). I'd much rather be called "Mr." or just my first name to my face, than be referred to as "that snobby jackass who insists you call him Dr." behind my back.

 

[EmotRegulation]

This is something I encounter a lot in academia. Teaching in the south, I get a lot of people addressing me as Ms. EmotRegulation. And I don't like it BECAUSE of the gender imbalance. Men I have talked to do not have this problem; students (and clients) call them by their earned title. I understand that for students in this region, it's taught to say "Ms." or "Mrs." as a respect thing, but it drives me bat****. Not because I really care about being called Dr. (in fact, Professor is just fine by me in a classroom, my first name with research assistants) but because not correcting it perpetuates the gender imbalance.

So, correcting lightly and non-sensitively, like Dr. CheetahGirl suggested, is probably also what I'd do...."Actually, it's Dr. XXXXX," and then just move on. Or "I actually finished my PhD last year, so I'm Dr. XXXX now!" if you're the exuberant type. With my students, I actually take the time to point out the gender issues and that this is about using professional titles in a professional environment. With students, it's an educational opportunity. Perhaps less so for colleagues or clients, but even then I think it's important to try to correct gender imbalances of not seeing women as "doctors" as much as men. I'll take that even if they think I'm a bit snotty (which they probably also wouldn't think about a man....)

 

[IT514]

Hmm. I don't correct people.

I prefer to allow the power of my persona to determine hierarchy 😉

In a hospital setting, people usually assume I'm a doc even if I walk in in blue jeans and an old t shirt. Probably white male privilege.

More seriously, I think this mostly doesn't matter. It should become clear in a professional interaction who is the expert and who isn't.

Same goes for me, except its Carhartt's and flannel, and at times a bit of dirt under the fingernails. Gives off a gentleman-farmer/Doctor vibe.

 

[researchgirl]

Professionally, I think it is always appropriate to correct someone calling you Ms. instead of Dr., especially so if the person(s) calling you Ms. are correctly referring to most other PhDs/MDs as Dr.

I found that age and gender play a large role in who gets called "Dr." and while I'm happy to have colleagues call me by my first name, if the older or male colleague to my left is going to be called Dr. XXX, I'm not sure why I should be called Ms. ResearchGirl. Also, as someone who looks relatively young, I've learned that introducing myself as Dr. ResearchGirl helps others around me understand my training background and role more clearly than if I introduce myself by my first name or full name.... recently I was introduced by my first name to a trainee, which was just fine, and then 2 weeks later I learned that the trainee thought I was also a trainee, until I lectured in her course and was introduced as Dr. in that context. Simple mistake, but I think it was important for her to know and understand my role, and the Dr. intro might have helped avoid that confusion.

 

[psychRA]

Whenever I hear someone correct someone asking to be addressed by their title, it just comes off as insecure to me. Just my opinion when it comes to colleagues - I'd probably pull a PsyDr and call them by their first name if it bothered me and I wanted to force a change.

If other psychologists in the same setting are being addressed by their title but I am not, I don't think correcting that discrepancy is a mark of insecurity - especially because that discrepancy tends to occur along gender lines. I work in a setting in which psychiatrists and psychologists alike are addressed as Doctor. Almost without exception I've noticed that it's the female psychologists who have to clarify that they are in fact Drs, whereas male psychology trainees (e.g., not yet doctors) tend to be addressed as Doctor by default until they correct people.

On a personal level, I'm not particularly formal and I don't care about being called Doctor. I've been in settings where psychologists went by their first names and had no problem doing the same. But professionally speaking, I do have an issue with being addressed differently from my colleagues at the same level, so I'm going to correct people when there's a misunderstanding.

 

[Pragma]

If other psychologists in the same setting are being addressed by their title but I am not, I don't think correcting that discrepancy is a mark of insecurity - especially because that discrepancy tends to occur along gender lines. I work in a setting in which psychiatrists and psychologists alike are addressed as Doctor. Almost without exception I've noticed that it's the female psychologists who have to clarify that they are in fact Drs, whereas male psychology trainees (e.g., not yet doctors) tend to be addressed as Doctor by default until they correct people.

On a personal level, I'm not particularly formal and I don't care about being called Doctor. I've been in settings where psychologists went by their first names and had no problem doing the same. But professionally speaking, I do have an issue with being addressed differently from my colleagues at the same level, so I'm going to correct people when there's a misunderstanding.

I agree that this shouldn't happen. How you deal with it is up to you. I tend to think that either letting it be and then kicking ass or turning it around on them are better strategies for gaining respect in the long term, but that may just reflect my own personality and experience.

 

[CheetahGirl]

So, @Pragma, it seems like you're implying that you will lose/potentially risk earning respect by correcting someone (to clarify your job title). That is just not so. We are professionals and it is our duty.

How you do it is certainly the issue here. You can come across as snarky, entitled, arrogant, or not. I don't think anyone thinks i'm an a**hole for having said, 'Hi, I'm Dr. CheetahGirl. Pleased to meet you.'

If one is so insecure about one's title,
maybe one should've stopped at the masters level. Sounds silly, but that's the message I'm getting here when anyone is saying 'say nothing.' And I think bringing up the gender disparity is relevant to our perspectives.

 

[Pragma]

If one is so insecure about one's title, maybe one should've stopped at the masters level.

I have never said or even thought this. I just prefer to walk the walk. That's it. I'm a bit baffled where you would even conceive this idea.

I come from the perspective of seeing this in petty situations. I have acknowledged (and frequently discuss with my students and colleagues) how sexism and racism can manifest itself in these scenarios. But that's a lot different than a white male psychologist correcting a colleague during a treatment team meeting even though everyone else at the table is using first names (including the female physician). That's not insecure? That is what I have seen, on more than one occasion, in more than one setting. I wasn't trained that way.

This is about perspective and experience. I personally don't like invoking the power differential of a title in my interactions with patients or non-doctoral colleagues. I introduce myself by my first name and talk about what I do. That's how I prefer to do it, and it's worked very well for me professionally. Other people can do what they want - and context matters. No one here has said that it doesn't.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I'm a bit baffled where you would even conceive this idea.

Gotcha. That was pure snark...coming from me.

I get your point, and thanks for your perspective. I am in agreement with the possible manifest sexism (which can even transpire from one woman to another woman, who assumes she may be less than) and perhaps racism.

Although I weigh racism slightly different because I am an ethnic minority, and have generally been included in 'out-groups,' except for those of privilege (thanks to my parents' careers and upbringing). For me, there was usually this preconceived notion that I was more than I was (i.e., doctor) before I achieved it. But that isn't racism, that is a stereotype.

I agree with not invoking the power differential (as long as co-workers are clear about roles, and not misrepresenting)...it gets in the way of so much, and we are no longer in a one-person psychology (with our patients), but a two-person psychology with most (except my kids...I definitely evoke a power differential with them...unless I'm asking for their opinion).

P.S. Plus, we've all known of each other for so long...please just call me Cheetah.😎

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I think part of this thread took a little detour to the idea of correcting someone in more casual settings (eg when everyone uses first names), which I think everyone can agree makes you sound like a tw*t.

But the OP seemed to have been talking about a more formal professional context, in which her colleagues were referred to as "Dr." In cases like that, I'm on Team Correct. Women need to be assertive and carve out their professional spaces as much as they can.

This thread is really worth reading:


It shows just how used to this sort of thing women have become, like a fish not noticing the water. And how impossible it can be for men to comprehend (and understandably so- how could you know the female experience when we sometimes don't even notice it ourselves?).

Here's another article about how transgender men who grew up socialized as female were treated differently as soon as they were perceived as male: http://time.com/transgender-men-sexism/

"Many trans men I spoke with said they had no idea how rough women at work had it until they transitioned. As soon as they came out as men, they found their missteps minimized and their successes amplified. Often, they say, their words carried more weight: They seemed to gain authority and professional respect overnight."

Really interesing windows into the professional experience of both genders.

 

[researchgirl]

This thread is really worth reading:

I saw that recently. Reminded me of STEM Feminist: https://twitter.com/stemfeminist or https://stemfeminist.com/

 

[Pragma]

The OP specifically is asking whether they should correct non-doctoral staff that they work with (they called them teachers or behavioral staff).

I also gave an example of a professional context, not an informal setting. A lot of professional contexts involve first names. This varies a lot by setting, and in some settings, there is a huge mix of using titles vs. not using titles. People have different preferences in these professional contexts. I personally air on the side of avoiding referring to myself by title, because I think it projects humility and makes people I work with and patients more comfortable with me (with some exceptions, like inpatients). I also think that it helps to build good collaborative working relationships with my colleagues, including non-doctoral ones.

Case in point - my office is very close to a female social worker who I speak with from time to time. Should I insist that she call me by my title, thus reinforcing more awkward interaction and suggesting a power differential in our working relationship (even though there is zero actual power differential between us)? No. First names are fine, and probably for the best, in this scenario.

That is at the crux of this for me - having positive relationships with colleagues and getting past superficial office-speak. Perhaps this is in large part because all of the prolific/superstar people that I have ever known through training and beyond all go by their first names with everyone. It rubbed off on me - and no, MOST of those people were not white men.

 

[psychRA]

That is at the crux of this for me - having positive relationships with colleagues and getting past superficial office-speak. Perhaps this is in large part because all of the prolific/superstar people that I have ever known through training and beyond all go by their first names with everyone. It rubbed off on me - and no, MOST of those people were not white men.

I wouldn't characterize the original issue as superficial office-speak, though.

Pragma, I hear you saying that you personally prefer to go by first names with colleagues and that you don't have a preference for being addressed by your title. And that's fine - you are entitled to your preferences. I myself have worked in lots of settings where all of us have gone by our first names, so I get where you're coming from. The original poster was saying that in her specific professional context, every other psychologist is addressed as Doctor by staff, but she herself is not. Even though it's likely unintentional on the part of staff, the fact that she's referred to differently from all of the other psychologists is something she would like to address. And that's fine, too, because she's also entitled to her preferences. But it sounds to me like you're saying that the original poster should just let this go because (in your view) being addressed by one's title isn't important to you, when it clearly is important to her.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

We refer to each with titles, so we say (Mr. Ms. or Dr based on the degree the person has earned) in front of students.

I was going by this statement. It's true that some of the language in the rest of the post makes it unclear what sort of context(s) she's referring to regarding her title, but I assumed that since she made this point, she was referring to these times.

But I wasn't referring just to you @Pragma, some other posters conflated casual (casual meaning "we've all tacitly agreed to call each other first names and are cool with that") and more professional settings ("we've all agreed to call each other by titles") in this discussion and I just wanted to clarify what the original topic was. Both perfectly fine to discuss, but not a direct comparison.

 

[barryggg]

How about free speech?

I prefer to call everyone by their first name or Mr. I don't call anyone Dr. This is not to be an dingus, it's just that we know what our roles are. Nobody should be able to force you to call them what they prefer to be called.

 

[Pragma]

The original poster was saying that in her specific professional context, every other psychologist is addressed as Doctor by staff, but she herself is not. Even though it's likely unintentional on the part of staff, the fact that she's referred to differently from all of the other psychologists is something she would like to address. And that's fine, too, because she's also entitled to her preferences. But it sounds to me like you're saying that the original poster should just let this go because (in your view) being addressed by one's title isn't important to you, when it clearly is important to her.

Hi everyone,

I am currently completing my postdoc site at a therapeutic school. Everyone is very friendly to each other and it's a great work environment. We refer to each with titles, so we say (Mr. Ms. or Dr based on the degree the person has earned) in front of students. When there are no students present, we sometimes call each other with our titles or by a first name. My purpose in saying that is that there are some people who are more formal than others. **Note: my closest coworkers and I (other psychologists and social workers and psychiatrists all call each other by our first names***)

I have a lot of coworkers (non clinical, like teachers or behavioral staff) and some of them refer me as Dr. X but there are a few who call me Ms. X. I brought this up to my partner and my partner, who is much more assertive than I am, said that I should politely correct these coworkers or even make a lighthearted comment about how I go by as Dr. X. I am new to being called Dr, so I feel a little uncomfortable with the title still... I am working on it 🙂 I kind of let it slide, because I just dont really know how to correct them nor do i know if i need to.

Just curious to hear some thoughts from some of you who have already earned your doctorates. Would you correct some of these coworkers so that they call you doctor? If so, how would you do it? Or would you not?

Thanks!

It seems to me that the question was whether she needs to correct the non-doctoral staff she works with. The answer is no - it is up to her, right?

For the record, a some of my colleagues call other doctoral-level providers doctor too and not me - perhaps because of preferences that have been established by some who care more about title than others. The point I was making to the OP is that it is up to them. I used my own professional context as an example for why I don't like titles.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

It seems to me that the question was whether she needs to correct the non-doctoral staff she works with. The answer is no - it is up to her, right?

For the record, a some of my colleagues call other doctoral-level providers doctor too and not me - perhaps because of preferences that have been established by some who care more about title than others. The point I was making to the OP is that it is up to them. I used my own professional context as an example for why I don't like titles.

But are they calling you "Mr" or using your first name? This might seem like a small distinction, but I think the OP is talking about the difference between using one title (Ms) and another (Dr), not title vs no title. So the level of formality is the same, it's just the incorrect title. And why is the title incorrect? Is it because of an assumption that she is not a Dr? I think that's the crux of the conflict.

 

[Pragma]

But are they calling you "Mr" or using your first name? This might seem like a small distinction, but I think the OP is talking about the difference between using one title (Ms) and another (Dr), not title vs no title. So the level of formality is the same, it's just the incorrect title. And why is the title incorrect? Is it because of an assumption that she is not a Dr? I think that's the crux of the conflict.

I've gotten both, but I do see your distinction.

Clearly contextual factors are going to color any interaction. But one thing that is under an individual's control is their own attitude towards it. In situations where there isn't anything sexist/racist/ageist going on, I think demanding that others (especially colleagues and non-doctoral colleagues) is petty. That's my opinion and that characterizes the advice I would give the OP. She's gotten a lot of different advice, and I am sure she can make a good decision for herself.

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

I don't know about all this. I think it's very difficult to directly suggest people call you "Dr." without coming across as a little full of oneself. Let someone else correct them. As long as they are aware of your skills and position (e.g. make appropriate referrals; ask you for appropriate input or feedback). If it's policy and you are the person's supervision, you could deferentially correct them ("I know it's a little silly, and it doen't bother me either way, but it's policy here to refer to people with their title"). I'd much rather be called "Mr." or just my first name to my face, than be referred to as "that snobby jackass who insists you call him Dr." behind my back.

That's exactly how I feel. I imagine that if I were to correct these staff members they would absolutely call me doctor, but it might hurt our rapport and I might come across as a jerk.

Ive gotten some great advice from all of you! After thinking about it as of now I have decided htat I will not correct the few staff members who call me Ms if we are alone and not in front of students. If I am in front of students, I will make sure that my title is known that I am doctor, as all my students call me Dr. Psychology Today. I value having good relationships with my coworkers and i don't want to demand that they call me anything nor do I want to come across as petty by correcting them ,when all they were saying to me was , "Good morning Ms. Psychologytoday!"

Thank you all for your time and thoughtful responses. This was a very interesting thread to read!

 

[psychstudent5]

I'm baffled by some of these comments.

I can understand being called by your first name by close and immediate colleagues and supervisors.
Everyone else? They need to say "Dr." cause it matters. It seems like a small thing, but it matters just like how dress matters. People do treat and view you differently when you refer to yourself as "Dr." I don't think it's a sign of humility to not be called "Dr." It's a title that has been earned and confers an expertise that should be respected. If you're a woman and especially, a woman of color, you really need to "Lean In" to your title. I don't understand why so many psychologists downplay their degree by preferring to be called by their first name. MDs do not do this.

 

[AppsAintNoThang]

Yeesh. This thread is a tough read. Clearly the answer depends on context in every sense possible.

At my work, every single male with a doctorate is called Dr. As a female, I am often immediately called my first name, even though I've been introduced as Dr. I have their professional respect in many senses, they know what I do, yet it is still a microaggression in this setting to refer to me by my first name without asking if it's okay. If they did this to ANY of the male psychiatrists or psychologists, that would be very different in my view. But they don't, it's just me and my female colleagues.

So yes, if that's your context, correct them. I'm sick of women being told to smile and be friendly because people won't like us/ we have to earn respect/we can't ask for respect. I cannot imagine one of our male MDs/PHDs being put in that situation, and it's irritating to me that we're told to basically be nice and not make a fuss. We earned this title, own it if we want to own it.

 

[Pragma]

MDs do not do this.

All of the good ones I know do.

 

[AppsAintNoThang]

All of the good ones I know do.

Again, this is context. I've worked in 5 or 6 large hospitals and never have I had an MD who goes by his first name in the hospital.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Just to add another data point, there are some settings in which you're gonna get called doctor consistently! I work with a LOT of MDs and it took a while to adjust to being referred to as Dr. PhDStudent (oh the irony) in front of patients and in the EMR when the title was brand new. I prefer to go by my first name, but I allow myself to be introduced as Dr. and then welcome the patient to call me by my first name if they like. We're all first name when patients aren't around. I find that the MDs I work with take introducing me as Dr. much more seriously than some of my non-MD colleagues. I was even complaining about my lack of pockets the other day, and they were like "why don't you go get a lab coat? they even will tailor it for your short arms." Thanks, guys.

The only person who has called me "Miss" was a police officer on campus. Really debated the correction in that instance.

 

[psychstudent5]

Again, this is context. I've worked in 5 or 6 large hospitals and never have I had an MD who goes by his first name in the hospital.

Me either and I've worked in multiple hospitals in major cities.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I want to again make the point that I don't think this is a discussion about preferences in formality. In a context where everyone knows you are a Dr and you've decided to go by your first name, that's a totally fine and appropriate choice. That's probably the choice I'd make.

This is a context in which they don't know she's a Dr and they are assuming she is not. Maybe assuming she's a social worker? I think this is where people are saying that they've never heard a MD not correct someone (for thinking they're a nurse for example).

I agree that I wouldn't correct someone in a "good morning" interaction. I'd probably wait for a more work-related conversation or multidisciplinary meeting of some kind. I'd also make sure it's in my email sig, and that I introduce myself that way consistently to everyone. I assume it's an honest mistake so Im not suggesting being aggressive about it.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A quick read about a recent (?) study.

When Doctors Are Not Called "Dr.": How Forms of Address Reveal Gender Bias

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Anecdotally, I seem to see this even more frequently from patients. That is, they'll more commonly refer to the male providers as "Dr. X," even when that isn't their title, and to the female providers as "Ms. X," regardless of their credentials (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist)...often even after I gently correct them.