Couples Match - Do you know about it? Help!!!

[cameraGEEK]

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My significant other and I will be applying for the couples match. One of us will apply to radiology and the other to ophtho (and family medicine as the backup). I have been pretty worried about several things:

1. Ophtho is an early match, how can an early match and a non-early match work in couples match? Does the rad applicant have to wait to see where the ophtho applicant was accepted and rank those highest, and hope to get into a program in the same city? It seems highly likely the rads applicant may not get the top choice since it is so competitive. There was some other threads on this, but no definitive answer that I have seen.

2. Rads has a prelim year as does ophtho. Do we need to do a separate couples match just for the prelim year? How would this work for the family medicine backup (which has no prelim year) - how could we add that in to the mix?

3. Can someone apply to ophtho and family medicine at the same time (early application and nonearly application programs). We've been advised competitive programs need a plan B. Can someone apply to 2 different programs (1st and second choice) using couples match, especially when one is early match and when one is not?

4. We are prepared to apply everywhere. But I am wondering about interviews - will some schools give us interviews to places the other won't even be getting an interview to (or won't be even getting an interview in the same city)? It seems like that could waste a whole lot of time and money on going to many interviews to places where only one of us would be accepted to.

So in summary, these are the things we're trying to juggle (feels overwhelming and complicated):
- Matching a prelim year to either another prelim year OR a program without a prelim year (family med)
- Matching a residency in rads to one in ophtho (starts PGY2) OR family medicine (starts PGY1)

😕

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My significant other and I will be applying for the couples match. One of us will apply to radiology and the other to ophtho (and family medicine as the backup). I have been pretty worried about several things:

1. Ophtho is an early match, how can an early match and a non-early match work in couples match? Does the rad applicant have to wait to see where the ophtho applicant was accepted and rank those highest, and hope to get into a program in the same city? It seems highly likely the rads applicant may not get the top choice since it is so competitive. There was some other threads on this, but no definitive answer that I have seen.

The couples match only works well when you're trying to both match NRMP. When one of you wants ophthal, that creates problems. You cannot "couple" an SF match and an NRMP match.

So:
yes, the ophthal match happens first. Luckily, that match results before NRMP rank lists are due. So you'll know exactly where your partner is going. You then rank Rads spots at the top of your list that are in the same area. But, if your partner matches to an ophthal program that only has 1 or 2 programs in the same area, you'll need to decide whether you want to list programs in other cities lower than that -- you could easily match there and then be separated. You cannot try and cancel your match later because you are in different cities -- the NRMP will simply say that you knew this already and chose to rank them.

What you'd like to do is first try to match you both to Boston, then both to San Fran, then both to Philly, etc. This is what the couples match in the NRMP does, but since ophthal is in the SF match, there is no way to do it.

2. Rads has a prelim year as does ophtho. Do we need to do a separate couples match just for the prelim year?

So let's say your partner (for sake of clarity, let's assume is a "him") matches to Ophthal, and now he is in the NRMP match for a prelim. You're (assuming for clarity a "her") in the NRMP match for rads and a prelim.

So, he will submit a Primary Rank List with prelim programs.
You will submit a Primary Rank List with Radiology Programs. You will also link supplemental lists with Prelim programs to each of your radiology matches (hence you can reorder your prelim choices based upon your rads match).

You can couples match his prelim year and your rads match. Your prelim match will NOT be couple's linked, but will be on a supplemental rank list. Each supplemental list is linked to a specific rads match, so you will have some control about keeping them in the same geographic area. But, if you and he match to Prelim/Rads in a certain city, there's no way to "undo" the match if you don't get a prelim there also.

How would this work for the family medicine backup (which has no prelim year) - how could we add that in to the mix?

In this case, he doesn't match in ophthal. Now, he'll be ranking FM programs on his Primary rank list. You'd list rad programs on your primary, and prelims on your supplemental. Again, his FM match and your Rads match would be couples linked. Your prelim would not, but you build each supplemental list to link with a specific main match, so you'd have some control over where you end up.

3. Can someone apply to ophtho and family medicine at the same time (early application and nonearly application programs). We've been advised competitive programs need a plan B. Can someone apply to 2 different programs (1st and second choice) using couples match, especially when one is early match and when one is not?

Absolutely. You apply via ERAS to both. Probably best that you don't tell FM programs that they are a backup for him, since they might decide to simply not interview you at all. He ranks in the SF Match. Match results come out before NRMP rank lists are due, so he can then rank prelims in NRMP if he matches in ophthal, or FM programs if he does not.

4. We are prepared to apply everywhere. But I am wondering about interviews - will some schools give us interviews to places the other won't even be getting an interview to (or won't be even getting an interview in the same city)? It seems like that could waste a whole lot of time and money on going to many interviews to places where only one of us would be accepted to.

Yes, this can be a problem. I don't have any easy answers for you, except to focus on larger urban areas with larger numbers of programs.

So in summary, these are the things we're trying to juggle (feels overwhelming and complicated):
- Matching a prelim year to either another prelim year OR a program without a prelim year (family med)
- Matching a residency in rads to one in ophtho (starts PGY2) OR family medicine (starts PGY1)

As above, you can couples match your Rads match to his prelim, or your Rads match to his FM.

I guess, to be complete, this assumes that you match to Rads. If not, then you'd have the choice to list prelims on your main rank list below all of your rads matches. This could couple's match your prelim to his prelim (or his FM), but that's only if you don't get a Rads spot and let's not think about that...

Clear as mud?

 

[cameraGEEK]

The couples match only works well when you're trying to both match NRMP. When one of you wants ophthal, that creates problems. You cannot "couple" an SF match and an NRMP match.

So:
yes, the ophthal match happens first. Luckily, that match results before NRMP rank lists are due. So you'll know exactly where your partner is going. You then rank Rads spots at the top of your list that are in the same area. But, if your partner matches to an ophthal program that only has 1 or 2 programs in the same area, you'll need to decide whether you want to list programs in other cities lower than that -- you could easily match there and then be separated. You cannot try and cancel your match later because you are in different cities -- the NRMP will simply say that you knew this already and chose to rank them.

What you'd like to do is first try to match you both to Boston, then both to San Fran, then both to Philly, etc. This is what the couples match in the NRMP does, but since ophthal is in the SF match, there is no way to do it.



So let's say your partner (for sake of clarity, let's assume is a "him") matches to Ophthal, and now he is in the NRMP match for a prelim. You're (assuming for clarity a "her") in the NRMP match for rads and a prelim.

So, he will submit a Primary Rank List with prelim programs.
You will submit a Primary Rank List with Radiology Programs. You will also link supplemental lists with Prelim programs to each of your radiology matches (hence you can reorder your prelim choices based upon your rads match).

You can couples match his prelim year and your rads match. Your prelim match will NOT be couple's linked, but will be on a supplemental rank list. Each supplemental list is linked to a specific rads match, so you will have some control about keeping them in the same geographic area. But, if you and he match to Prelim/Rads in a certain city, there's no way to "undo" the match if you don't get a prelim there also.



In this case, he doesn't match in ophthal. Now, he'll be ranking FM programs on his Primary rank list. You'd list rad programs on your primary, and prelims on your supplemental. Again, his FM match and your Rads match would be couples linked. Your prelim would not, but you build each supplemental list to link with a specific main match, so you'd have some control over where you end up.



Absolutely. You apply via ERAS to both. Probably best that you don't tell FM programs that they are a backup for him, since they might decide to simply not interview you at all. He ranks in the SF Match. Match results come out before NRMP rank lists are due, so he can then rank prelims in NRMP if he matches in ophthal, or FM programs if he does not.



Yes, this can be a problem. I don't have any easy answers for you, except to focus on larger urban areas with larger numbers of programs.



As above, you can couples match your Rads match to his prelim, or your Rads match to his FM.

I guess, to be complete, this assumes that you match to Rads. If not, then you'd have the choice to list prelims on your main rank list below all of your rads matches. This could couple's match your prelim to his prelim (or his FM), but that's only if you don't get a Rads spot and let's not think about that...

Clear as mud?

wow, thank you so much for that helpful thorough response, and taking the time to read my worries. I really, really appreciate it! Definitely seems like a lot to take in. Any tricks or strategies people employ in this?

are we allowed to talk to program to somehow coordinate our applications? is there are way to get around wasting time/money on interviews we won't both get in the same city?

is ours a rare situation to be in?

when do programs know we as applicants are doing the couples match, only if we tell them? do programs ever talk amongst each other regarding both applicants? do they try to coordinate too?

Is it likely that when someone applies to both ophtho and FM, FM would figure out it is a backup through the rads program that may get calls from both FM and Ophtho?

Would it help at all to first apply to intern year and then later to PG-2 once we know where we are in intern year? As in, are we allowed to wait till intern year to apply to PG-2 spots through the match?

For programs that don't have a separate intern year, like psych or FM, are people allowed to switch programs after their intern year at that program?

Sorry for all the questions 😳, this is so complicated and anxiety-inducing.

 

[gutonc]

are we allowed to talk to program to somehow coordinate our applications? is there are way to get around wasting time/money on interviews we won't both get in the same city?

Yes and yes. It's pretty standard to do so. Not that every program will accomodate you but it doesn't hurt to ask.

is ours a rare situation to be in?

Not particularly but it's become more rare as more specialties realize they're not really all that special and join NRMP.

when do programs know we as applicants are doing the couples match, only if we tell them? do programs ever talk amongst each other regarding both applicants? do they try to coordinate too?

Yes. Yes. Sometimes.

Is it likely that when someone applies to both ophtho and FM, FM would figure out it is a backup through the rads program that may get calls from both FM and Ophtho?

Yes. This is a risk that you're going to have to decide for yourself if it's worth taking. Many people will apply to a backup specialty only at institutions where they're not applying for the primary specialty.

Would it help at all to first apply to intern year and then later to PG-2 once we know where we are in intern year? As in, are we allowed to wait till intern year to apply to PG-2 spots through the match?

You can do this but it would not help as it would require you to sit out a year (you match advanced programs a year down the road). It would also require you to go through the Match twice and would put you in a situation where you're trying to interview for a more competitive specialty with limited time for interviews. Unlike now when you essentially have all the time in the world to interview and can go as many places as your credit card limit allows. Speaking as someone who interviewed for fellowships during intern year, making it to 6 interviews, even with an elective month that fell right in the middle of interview season was a major struggle...you don't want to hang a rads/ophtho match on that few interviews.

For programs that don't have a separate intern year, like psych or FM, are people allowed to switch programs after their intern year at that program?

You're allowed to do whatever you want. Whether you will be able to do it is a different story. In order to fulfill your Match contract, all you need to do is show up on the first day. You can give notice during your first minute of orientation if you so desire and will not suffer any NRMP-specific backlash. You'll never be able to get another residency spot because your PD will blackball you until s/he is dead...but you can still enter the Match.

The reality is that it's not easy to just "swap" programs whenever it suits you. You will need to apply to programs, get your current PD on board and write a letter for you and somehow get time off during your intern year to interview. None of those things are easy. And once you make your desire to leave known, expect nothing but bitterness from your colleagues and attendings.

Sorry for all the questions 😳, this is so complicated and anxiety-inducing.

It's actually not that complicated. But it's definitely anxiety provoking.

 

[cameraGEEK]

Thank you to both of you for the great advice and answers. I am thinking about how to lower the risk of my significant other and I ending up in different places. I am the one applying to ophtho and FM and my S.O. (he) will apply to rads - a few more questions:

1. Does the ophtho interview season begin and end before the rads (regular match) does?

2. Will he have all his rads interviews by the time I have to rank ophtho programs? And to make sure, I will have the ophtho results before he ranks the rads programs?

3. If I receive no interviews for ophtho in cities where he got interviews for rads, and we want to stay in the same city, would I then have no option but to not rank anything for the ophtho match, not rank any prelim in regular match, and just go with my second specialty choice and only rank FM for the regular match?

4. Is it against the rules to submit a rank list for early match ophtho and regular match FM and prelim?

5. Since I will initially be applying to programs in FM, ophtho, and a prelim year, and I have to apply for many programs so that we can be in the same city, will I have time to go to all these interviews? How much, around will applying to 50 ophtho programs, 50 FM programs, and 50 prelim programs cost? It sounds like it can get overwhelming, especially when I have to add in cost/time for interview travel.

6. So, if I get an interview for ophtho in a city he likes for rads, but he hasn't yet received an interview (maybe because it is too early in the season), can he call them and say he'd like really to interview? How likely is it they would accommodate him?

7. If after I get into an ophtho program and he must submit his regular match rank list, and there is only one program he interviewed for rads in the same city as the ophtho program I was accepted to, what can we do the maximize chances that he will get in there? Should he call them and tell them he is ranking them as #1, and that his significant other is going to be going to residency in the same city to see if they will also rank him high? How likely is it that they care about this and will rank him higher than they otherwise would?

8. If I am accepted into an ophtho program and at the end of the interview season, and we see that my SO has not been interviewed at any schools in the same city as that program, what choices do I have? Can I decline the ophtho position and continue with the regular match FM rank list, or is that not allowed?

9. What happens if someone matches into an ophtho program but not a prelim program?

Sorry, again, if this sounds complicated. I really appreciate your help and advice.

 

[cameraGEEK]

Thank you to both of you for the great advice and answers. I am thinking about how to lower the risk of my significant other and I ending up in different places. I am the one applying to ophtho and FM and my S.O. (he) will apply to rads - a few more questions:

1. Does the ophtho interview season begin and end before the rads (regular match) does?

2. Will he have all his rads interviews by the time I have to rank ophtho programs? And to make sure, I will have the ophtho results before he ranks the rads programs?

3. If I receive no interviews for ophtho in cities where he got interviews for rads, and we want to stay in the same city, would I then have no option but to not rank anything for the ophtho match, not rank any prelim in regular match, and just go with my second specialty choice and only rank FM for the regular match?

4. Is it against the rules to submit a rank list for early match ophtho and regular match FM and prelim?

5. Since I will initially be applying to programs in FM, ophtho, and a prelim year, and I have to apply for many programs so that we can be in the same city, will I have time to go to all these interviews? How much, around will applying to 50 ophtho programs, 50 FM programs, and 50 prelim programs cost? It sounds like it can get overwhelming, especially when I have to add in cost/time for interview travel.

6. So, if I get an interview for ophtho in a city he likes for rads, but he hasn't yet received an interview (maybe because it is too early in the season), can he call them and say he'd like really to interview? How likely is it they would accommodate him?

7. If after I get into an ophtho program and he must submit his regular match rank list, and there is only one program he interviewed for rads in the same city as the ophtho program I was accepted to, what can we do the maximize chances that he will get in there? Should he call them and tell them he is ranking them as #1, and that his significant other is going to be going to residency in the same city to see if they will also rank him high? How likely is it that they care about this and will rank him higher than they otherwise would?

8. If I am accepted into an ophtho program and at the end of the interview season, and we see that my SO has not been interviewed at any schools in the same city as that program, what choices do I have? Can I decline the ophtho position and continue with the regular match FM rank list, or is that not allowed?

9. What happens if someone matches into an ophtho program but not a prelim program?

Sorry, again, if this sounds complicated. I really appreciate your help and advice.

bump 🙂

 

[PMPMD]

Usually people wait more than 24 hours for the bump. I guess that was an automicrobump. 😉

 

[NotAProgDirector]

bump 🙂

There is no need to bump a thread that is barely a day old, and still on the top page... but I digress...

Thank you to both of you for the great advice and answers. I am thinking about how to lower the risk of my significant other and I ending up in different places. I am the one applying to ophtho and FM and my S.O. (he) will apply to rads - a few more questions:

1. Does the ophtho interview season begin and end before the rads (regular match) does?

In general, the ophthal interview season is earlier than rad, but there will be significant overlap. Many of the ophthal interview dates are listed in their interview thread this year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=853481&page=5

I'm sure radiology has one also that you can look up.

2. Will he have all his rads interviews by the time I have to rank ophtho programs? And to make sure, I will have the ophtho results before he ranks the rads programs?

Ophthal rank lists are due Jan 5. I expect he will have all of his rads interviews scheduled by then, although many will be in January.

For certain, you'll have the ophthal match results before he has to rank. The SF match results come out on Jan 13. NRMP rank lists are not due until end Feb.

3. If I receive no interviews for ophtho in cities where he got interviews for rads, and we want to stay in the same city, would I then have no option but to not rank anything for the ophtho match, not rank any prelim in regular match, and just go with my second specialty choice and only rank FM for the regular match?

Yes or No -- it depends what you mean.

There are two possibilities -- you get ophthal interviews where he does not get rads interviews, and he gets rads interviews where you don't get ophthal interviews.

In the first case, you have a problem. If you match into a location that he doesn't have a rads interview, he'll either end up with something other than rads (which you haven't mentioned as an option), or you'll end up separated. If that's not an option, then you need to decline any ophthal interview where he doesn't have a rad interview -- or, being more conservative, go on all your interviews and at the end, only rank programs where he has interviews/liked.

In the second case, there is much less of a problem. The ophthal match comes first, so you would rank all of your ophthal ranks. Either you match, or you don't. If you do, then he'll only rank programs in the same geographic area. If you don't match in ophthal, then you'll be ranking in the NRMP for FM or prelims. Now, the question is only whether you can get an FM interview where he has Rads interviews.

I'm assuming that you won't have problems getting FM interviews.

4. Is it against the rules to submit a rank list for early match ophtho and regular match FM and prelim?

It is completely fine, in fact it's encouraged. You apply via the SF Match to ophthal. If you match, then you're in NRMP for a prelim. If you don't, then you can rank FM programs and/or prelim programs.

5. Since I will initially be applying to programs in FM, ophtho, and a prelim year, and I have to apply for many programs so that we can be in the same city, will I have time to go to all these interviews? How much, around will applying to 50 ophtho programs, 50 FM programs, and 50 prelim programs cost? It sounds like it can get overwhelming, especially when I have to add in cost/time for interview travel.

You'll never be able to interview at 150 programs, but presumably you won't get interviews at all of them. Given your situation, your best option is to concentrate on big urban areas with lots of programs -- Boston, NYC, Phili, SF, the Wake/UNC/Duke triangle, etc. It will make this all much less complicated.

And, yes, it will be expensive.

6. So, if I get an interview for ophtho in a city he likes for rads, but he hasn't yet received an interview (maybe because it is too early in the season), can he call them and say he'd like really to interview? How likely is it they would accommodate him?

Questionable. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Once you actually match for ophthal, that's a totally different story. If you match somewhere and then he calls, they know for certain that you're coming and he's likely to rank them (although this would be less true for a match in NYC, since there are so many programs there)

7. If after I get into an ophtho program and he must submit his regular match rank list, and there is only one program he interviewed for rads in the same city as the ophtho program I was accepted to, what can we do the maximize chances that he will get in there? Should he call them and tell them he is ranking them as #1, and that his significant other is going to be going to residency in the same city to see if they will also rank him high? How likely is it that they care about this and will rank him higher than they otherwise would?

That's about all you can do. And perhaps they will take it into consideration. If they already liked him, it will move him up to the top of the list. If he was marginal, it might have no impact. Different programs will treat it differently.

Again, you're best avoiding this by matching into a big urban area with many programs.

8. If I am accepted into an ophtho program and at the end of the interview season, and we see that my SO has not been interviewed at any schools in the same city as that program, what choices do I have? Can I decline the ophtho position and continue with the regular match FM rank list, or is that not allowed?

That is not allowed. You can ask your matching program to release you from your match, but they are likely to be very upset, and the process is unlikely to proceed fast enough so that you could particiapte in NRMP. Basically, when rank lists are due on Jan 5, you shouldn't rank any program that you'd be unwilling to go to. Your SO should know where his interviews are by then.

If you match into ophthal, he'll have to make a tough decision -- rank only rads programs where you are, or rank other rads programs below those. If he matches to another city, then you'll have a tough choice -- keep your ophthal match and live apart for a few years, or you could resign your ophthal match -- if you do so, you'll never get another one (likely).

9. What happens if someone matches into an ophtho program but not a prelim program?

You try really hard to scramble into one. You can always do prelim surgery, it sucks but there are lots of them in the scramble and if you have an application that's competitive enough for ophthal, you'll easily get one. Will it be in the same city as your SO? Hard to say -- again, you'll be MUCH better off if you're in a big urban area with lots of programs.

If you fail to get one altogether (or refuse to get one because it would involve being separated), then you will lose your ophthal spot. They won't "hold it" for you, and you're unlikely to ever get another one.

I am seriously hoping that you're asking all these things in preperation for next year. If not, you're already too late if you haven't started this process.

 

[docu]

I was thinking about joining the couples match. is it too late? how do we join it this late in the game after already submitting the ERAS application? is it possible?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The couple's match is run by NRMP. You can decide to couple's link your match anytime before rank lists are due. You can also update the field on ERAS anytime you want, announcing that you are couples matching. Based upon your questions in other threads, it sounds like you want to create a bogus couples match to link your application to a friend's which is stronger in the hopes that this will improve your application. This is a very bad idea. It looks weird, won't probably help much, and might hurt the other student.

 

[cameraGEEK]

There is no need to bump a thread that is barely a day old, and still on the top page... but I digress...



In general, the ophthal interview season is earlier than rad, but there will be significant overlap. Many of the ophthal interview dates are listed in their interview thread this year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=853481&page=5

I'm sure radiology has one also that you can look up.



Ophthal rank lists are due Jan 5. I expect he will have all of his rads interviews scheduled by then, although many will be in January.

For certain, you'll have the ophthal match results before he has to rank. The SF match results come out on Jan 13. NRMP rank lists are not due until end Feb.



Yes or No -- it depends what you mean.

There are two possibilities -- you get ophthal interviews where he does not get rads interviews, and he gets rads interviews where you don't get ophthal interviews.

In the first case, you have a problem. If you match into a location that he doesn't have a rads interview, he'll either end up with something other than rads (which you haven't mentioned as an option), or you'll end up separated. If that's not an option, then you need to decline any ophthal interview where he doesn't have a rad interview -- or, being more conservative, go on all your interviews and at the end, only rank programs where he has interviews/liked.

In the second case, there is much less of a problem. The ophthal match comes first, so you would rank all of your ophthal ranks. Either you match, or you don't. If you do, then he'll only rank programs in the same geographic area. If you don't match in ophthal, then you'll be ranking in the NRMP for FM or prelims. Now, the question is only whether you can get an FM interview where he has Rads interviews.

I'm assuming that you won't have problems getting FM interviews.



It is completely fine, in fact it's encouraged. You apply via the SF Match to ophthal. If you match, then you're in NRMP for a prelim. If you don't, then you can rank FM programs and/or prelim programs.



You'll never be able to interview at 150 programs, but presumably you won't get interviews at all of them. Given your situation, your best option is to concentrate on big urban areas with lots of programs -- Boston, NYC, Phili, SF, the Wake/UNC/Duke triangle, etc. It will make this all much less complicated.

And, yes, it will be expensive.



Questionable. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Once you actually match for ophthal, that's a totally different story. If you match somewhere and then he calls, they know for certain that you're coming and he's likely to rank them (although this would be less true for a match in NYC, since there are so many programs there)



That's about all you can do. And perhaps they will take it into consideration. If they already liked him, it will move him up to the top of the list. If he was marginal, it might have no impact. Different programs will treat it differently.

Again, you're best avoiding this by matching into a big urban area with many programs.



That is not allowed. You can ask your matching program to release you from your match, but they are likely to be very upset, and the process is unlikely to proceed fast enough so that you could particiapte in NRMP. Basically, when rank lists are due on Jan 5, you shouldn't rank any program that you'd be unwilling to go to. Your SO should know where his interviews are by then.

If you match into ophthal, he'll have to make a tough decision -- rank only rads programs where you are, or rank other rads programs below those. If he matches to another city, then you'll have a tough choice -- keep your ophthal match and live apart for a few years, or you could resign your ophthal match -- if you do so, you'll never get another one (likely).



You try really hard to scramble into one. You can always do prelim surgery, it sucks but there are lots of them in the scramble and if you have an application that's competitive enough for ophthal, you'll easily get one. Will it be in the same city as your SO? Hard to say -- again, you'll be MUCH better off if you're in a big urban area with lots of programs.

If you fail to get one altogether (or refuse to get one because it would involve being separated), then you will lose your ophthal spot. They won't "hold it" for you, and you're unlikely to ever get another one.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to these questions, was really helpful ... if anyone out there has gone through this or a similar couples match experience and has any additional tips, that would be great 😉

 

[cameraGEEK]

Sorry one more question! At what point in the couples match does the coupling actually start? When we first apply do we just apply independently to loads of programs in the same city, and then only when we happen to get interviews at some of the same cities do we scheduel those interviews? Then, when we have finished all out interviews only then does the couples match come into play where we rank together?

 

[PMPMD]

Sorry one more question! At what point in the couples match does the coupling actually start? When we first apply do we just apply independently to loads of programs in the same city, and then only when we happen to get interviews at some of the same cities do we scheduel those interviews? Then, when we have finished all out interviews only then does the couples match come into play where we rank together?

You'll want to let the progs know before you interview (this may be built in to ERAS). If we had an interviewee we liked who was 1/2 of a couple, our PD would talk to their PD and try to make things happen.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You have the option of listing your couples interest in your ERAS application. PD's could consider your applications together (if you're applying to the same field), or seperately. They could also contact other PD's if needed. It could help or hurt your chances, depending on the circumstances. You are also welcome to not list your couple's match interest -- it's totally optional and up to you.

When you get interview offers, you can decide to interview together (again, if applying to the same specialty) or on different days. If you're applying to different fields, the chances of your interviews lining up is essentially zero.

No matter what you do with ERAS, the couple's match is part of NRMP. You simply register for NRMP, set up the couples match, and rank. As a PD, I can't tell if you're couples matching or not in NRMP -- and it doesn't really matter. I simply rank one or both of you on my rank list, and let the match work.

 

[cameraGEEK]

It could help or hurt your chances, depending on the circumstances. You are also welcome to not list your couple's match interest -- it's totally optional and up to you.

Thanks again 🙂 ... in what cases would it hurt and it what cases would it be a wise decision to mention this early on on the ERAS, before the NRMP?

When applying to two different specialties through the ERAS do you fill out two different aps entirely, where you can show your interest in field A in one application, with relevant publications, experiences, letters of rec, etc; and then fill out a second application for field B where you exclude some of the things more applicable to field A, and focus on those things for field B? I assume also we would be writing two separate personal statements, one for each field/application.

Is it generally frowned upon by program directors to apply to two programs? How do they feel about it?

What if one program isn't completely your "backup", but you like some programs a lot in field A and some programs a lot in field B, and when you rank there is a mix of field A and B, neither is all at the top or bottom of your list? Or do they not know that or care?

 

[gutonc]

Thanks again 🙂 ... in what cases would it hurt and it what cases would it be a wise decision to mention this early on on the ERAS, before the NRMP?

When applying to two different specialties through the ERAS do you fill out two different aps entirely, where you can show your interest in field A in one application, with relevant publications, experiences, letters of rec, etc; and then fill out a second application for field B where you exclude some of the things more applicable to field A, and focus on those things for field B? I assume also we would be writing two separate personal statements, one for each field/application.

Is it generally frowned upon by program directors to apply to two programs? How do they feel about it?

What if one program isn't completely your "backup", but you like some programs a lot in field A and some programs a lot in field B, and when you rank there is a mix of field A and B, neither is all at the top or bottom of your list? Or do they not know that or care?

Do you have a dean's office at your school?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I have to agree, usually basic issues like this are dealt with by your Dean's office, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks again 🙂 ... in what cases would it hurt and it what cases would it be a wise decision to mention this early on on the ERAS, before the NRMP?

There isn't a simple answer. It depends on many factors -- such as whether you're applying to the same or different fields, how competitive those fields are, how competitive you are, etc.

Let's say, for example, that you're both applying to IM. So:

1. Let's say that one of you is very competitive, and the other is "marginal". I would be tempted to interview both of you. I interview some people who are "on the cusp" every year, and being couples matched with someone who is outstanding could easily push you over the edge.

2. Let's say that one of you is competitive, and the other is not. I'm not going to interview you just because you're couple's matching with someone who is good. Now it depends on geography. If my program is in NYC, I'll probably invite the competitive candidate and reject the non-competitive one -- figuring they will get other interviews in NYC. If my program is the Univ of North Dakota, then I'll reject both -- as there is no point in interviewing just one of you.

3. Any program that has gone through an "ugly couple divorce" may decide to no longer take couples. Hence, they might simply reject all couples regardless. On the other hand, programs may have had great experience with couples, and might be more inclined to interview them.

When applying to two different specialties through the ERAS do you fill out two different aps entirely, where you can show your interest in field A in one application, with relevant publications, experiences, letters of rec, etc; and then fill out a second application for field B where you exclude some of the things more applicable to field A, and focus on those things for field B? I assume also we would be writing two separate personal statements, one for each field/application.

You only get one, single application that goes to all fields/programs. You can choose which LOR's go to which programs, and you can have seperate personal statements for each program.

Is it generally frowned upon by program directors to apply to two programs? How do they feel about it?

What if one program isn't completely your "backup", but you like some programs a lot in field A and some programs a lot in field B, and when you rank there is a mix of field A and B, neither is all at the top or bottom of your list? Or do they not know that or care?

Nobody wants to be a backup. I only have a limited number of interview spots, and I don't want to waste them on someone who is really looking for a different field. So, in general, if I get the sense that you really want rads/derm, then I am less inclined to interview you.

 

[HumbleMD]

Thanks again 🙂 ... in what cases would it hurt and it what cases would it be a wise decision to mention this early on on the ERAS, before the NRMP?

When applying to two different specialties through the ERAS do you fill out two different aps entirely, where you can show your interest in field A in one application, with relevant publications, experiences, letters of rec, etc; and then fill out a second application for field B where you exclude some of the things more applicable to field A, and focus on those things for field B? I assume also we would be writing two separate personal statements, one for each field/application.

Is it generally frowned upon by program directors to apply to two programs? How do they feel about it?

What if one program isn't completely your "backup", but you like some programs a lot in field A and some programs a lot in field B, and when you rank there is a mix of field A and B, neither is all at the top or bottom of your list? Or do they not know that or care?

Couples matching AND applying in multiple fields? If you tell me that you're also looking for transition years, I'm calling shenanigans. All of my older friends and attendings have told me that you shouldn't couples match unless there is a ring on your finger, or at minimum talk of one. I've seen a lot of folks do it, end up somewhere they didn't want to, and single at the end of residency.

Couples matching is not a very effective way to "game" the match. Few things are, aside from being a stellar applicant and applying in the right field.

 

[PMPMD]

All of my older friends and attendings have told me that you shouldn't couples match unless there is a ring on your finger, or at minimum talk of one.
.

Talk is cheap. Put a ring on it.