CRINGEPOCALYPSE: I dont want to apply for surgery if I end up like these residents

[H0012]

The following "personal statements" were written by Chief Residents in General Surgery at Johns Hopkins. I believe that these graduating Chief Residents were instructed to summarize their experience at Johns Hopkins.

I won't name the authors, but I will give them nicknames. You can google the text to find how who they are.

PREPARE TO CRINGE...

Resident 1: No Words

"As chief resident, I am confident that I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs...

...It is an incredible gift for a patient—a person—to willingly subject themselves to anesthesia and to let another person wield the knife...The legacy of Halsted is pervasive. The lessons learned from my patients are with me wherever I go—in my heart, in my head, in my Hopkins-trained hands."

Resident 2: The Terminator

"The program has such a rich history of being the nidus for surgical discovery... That having been said, it is not merely focused on past accomplishments, but rather, it is dedicated to continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..."

... I will always remember the strong relationships that I have forged amongst my co-chiefs"

Residents 3 and 4: Team Guadalcanal

"I was asked to give much of yourself, sometimes more than I thought I could...Physically, Hopkins asks you to study the physiologic impact of every stitch you throw... I had world-class facilities, field-leading experts, and battle-tested friends...

...I wanted a glimpse of the Halsted legacy...I am fortunate to consider my 7 other co-chiefs as very close friends, ones who I can count on for anything in the future. It has been an honor to train with these bright stars ..."
______________________________

To me, the above statements reveal an approach to medicine defined entirely by arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition instead of genuine humanitarian concern.

I want to tell them to "get a life." Where is their desire to serve others? They are all about "ME ME ME"....except for some "HALSTED" guy and they are all about "dominating" other people...and they write like ****: "as that having been said has been an honor" .... Where is their active voice?

The residents above write like they just won World War 2. Surgical residency is hard --but its no D-Day , it's no Pacific Theatre. Unlike these "battle-tested co-chiefs," after their hellish experience at D-Day the marines didn't get six-figure salaries.

"Dominance of the surgical landscape"..."Hopkins trained hands"..."I can do all medicine and all surgery for anyone on the planet.."

If I go into Surgery is this what I will become?

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[doc05]

What is your point? And why would you criticize people far more accomplished than yourself?

How about you go through 7 years of surgical residency...then you can chime in.

 

[H0012]

You replied too quickly to actually read the post so I wont respond to your comment because you didnt read it

edit: the answers to your questions are all obvious if you read it

 

[doc05]

You replied too quickly to actually read the post so I wont respond to your comment because you didnt read it

edit: the answers to your questions are all obvious if you read it

I've read the whole thing. What's your point?

 

[watermelon master]

You replied too quickly to actually read the post so I wont respond to your comment because you didnt read it

edit: the answers to your questions are all obvious if you read it

It took him 4 minutes to reply. Plenty of time to be honest, especially for a surgical resident 😎

 

[H0012]

I've read the whole thing. What's your point?

To me, the above statements reveal an approach to medicine defined entirely by arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition instead of genuine humanitarian concern. If I go into Surgery is this what I will become?

also

my post is just hilarious to read... their comments in my post are hilarious i.e. cringeworthy... youre welcome for a laugh

point made

 

[H0012]

And why would you criticize people far more accomplished than yourself?

How about you go through 7 years of surgical residency...then you can chime in.

You're right that I'm criticizing people far more accomplished than myself. However, they are acting like selfish knuckleheads so they deserve it.

I don't think you need to be Board Certified to recognize Board Certified CRINGE...

 

[Goro]

The following "personal statements" were written by Chief Residents in General Surgery at Johns Hopkins. I believe that these graduating Chief Residents were instructed to summarize their experience at Johns Hopkins.

I won't name the authors, but I will give them nicknames. You can google the text to find how who they are.

PREPARE TO CRINGE...

Resident 1: No Words

"As chief resident, I am confident that I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs...

...It is an incredible gift for a patient—a person—to willingly subject themselves to anesthesia and to let another person wield the knife...The legacy of Halsted is pervasive. The lessons learned from my patients are with me wherever I go—in my heart, in my head, in my Hopkins-trained hands."

Resident 2: The Terminator

"The program has such a rich history of being the nidus for surgical discovery... That having been said, it is not merely focused on past accomplishments, but rather, it is dedicated to continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..."

... I will always remember the strong relationships that I have forged amongst my co-chiefs"

Residents 3 and 4: Team Guadalcanal

"I was asked to give much of yourself, sometimes more than I thought I could...Physically, Hopkins asks you to study the physiologic impact of every stitch you throw... I had world-class facilities, field-leading experts, and battle-tested friends...

...I wanted a glimpse of the Halsted legacy...I am fortunate to consider my 7 other co-chiefs as very close friends, ones who I can count on for anything in the future. It has been an honor to train with these bright stars ..."
______________________________

To me, the above statements reveal an approach to medicine defined entirely by arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition instead of genuine humanitarian concern.

I want to tell them to "get a life." They are all about "ME ME ME"....except for some "HALSTED" guy and they are all about "dominating" other people...and they write like ****: "as that having been said has been an honor" .... Where is their active voice?

The residents above write like they just won World War 2. Surgical residency is hard --but its no D-Day , it's no Pacific Theatre. Unlike these "battle-tested co-chiefs," after their hellish experience at D-Day the marines didn't get six-figure salaries.

"Dominance of the surgical landscape"..."Hopkins trained hands"..."I can do all medicine and all surgery for anyone on the planet.."

If I go into Surgery is this what I will become?

Where's SouthernSurgeon now tjat we really need him???

@mimelim, can you comment? @HomeSkool??

 

[Psai]

The real cringepocalypse is this thread

 

[Money Moniker]

To me, the above statements reveal an approach to medicine defined entirely by arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition instead of genuine humanitarian concern.

I want to tell them to "get a life." Where is their desire to serve others? They are all about "ME ME ME"....except for some "HALSTED" guy and they are all about "dominating" other people...and they write like ****: "as that having been said has been an honor" .... Where is their active voice?

So in other words:

Oooh look at me, I'm SOOOOO compassionate guys, like, you can't believe how selfless and compassionate I am! It's all about the patient guys! I just LOOOOVE being selfless. Do you know who's the most compassionate of them all? This premed right here, yours truly! GOD, if you only knew the HUMANITARIAN CONCERN that dwells within me, straining to burst free! I'm the Usain Bolt of compassion people, can everybody see that?! GOD.

The cringe is you premed. Back to pre allo with you please.

 

[ParallelLines]

It's alright OP. Hopskins surgery probably doesn't want you either

 

[H0012]

So in other words:

Oooh look at me, I'm SOOOOO compassionate guys, like, you can't believe how selfless and compassionate I am! It's all about the patient guys! I just LOOOOVE being selfless. Do you know who's the most compassionate of them all? This premed right here, yours truly! GOD, if you only knew the HUMANITARIAN CONCERN that dwells within me, straining to burst free! I'm the Usain Bolt of compassion people, can everybody see that?! GOD.

The cringe is you premed. Back to pre allo with you please.

Mr. Money

I said that their attitude is defined "ENTIRELY" by "arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition." I never said there was anything wrong with competition in and of itself.

I'm actually a medical student I just made this account a while ago and dont know how to change it.

Any practicing surgeon would agree with my original post, and any normal person would find my post hilarious. If you disagree with my post and didn't laugh then your ego is inflated beyond control and you are dangerous.

 

[H0012]

Surgery has a competitive culture that has a lot in common with sports? People are proud to be at Hopkins?

The horror.

Fenderbaum, tell us something we don't know. Read my original post again to understand it or see my above post for further info

 

[deleted407021]

Were you not aware of the fact that surgery is known for having a competitive culture that has more in common with varsity sports than safe space college campuses? Because when a surgeon makes a mistake, it kills the patient, as opposed to ruffling some hairs about intersectionality?

🙄

 

[H0012]

Were you not aware of the fact that surgery is known for having a competitive culture that has more in common with varsity sports than safe space college campuses? Because when a surgeon makes a mistake, it kills the patient, as opposed to ruffling some hairs about intersectionality, there's a lot more competition and pride in excellence?

Fenderbaum: you're completely correct. If a surgeon makes a mistake, it kills the patient. So the surgeon should probably acknowledge that he can't "address any patient in [the] hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs..."

And the surgeon should care primarily about his or her patients instead of "dominance of the surgical landscape"

 

[DrMcLovin]

Mr. Money

I said that their attitude is defined "ENTIRELY" by "arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition." I never said there was anything wrong with competition in and of itself.

I'm actually a medical student I just made this account a while ago and dont know how to change it.

Any practicing surgeon would agree with my original post, and any normal person would find my post hilarious. If you disagree with my post and didn't laugh then..

I didn’t find it hilarious and I’m a pretty normal person...

They worked hard, are at a great program and general surgeons are some of the smartest doctors in the hospital. Get over it and stop trying to bring people down.

 

[H0012]

I didn’t find it hilarious and I’m a pretty normal person...

They worked hard, are at a great program and general surgeons are some of the smartest doctors in the hospital. Get over it and stop trying to bring people down.

I know that they are smart because my family members have worked as general surgeons for generations.

Sometimes people need to be brought down, especially when their head is in the clouds obsessed with dominance of the surgical landscape instead of patient care.

 

[H0012]

It's alright OP. Hopskins surgery probably doesn't want you either

So what? There is more to life than the prestige of your residency program: your health, your family, serving the sick, protecting the weak.

 

[ParallelLines]

I know that they are smart because my family members have worked as general surgeons for generations.

Sometimes people need to be brought down, especially when their head is in the clouds obsessed with dominance of the surgical landscape instead of patient care.

Thank god these world class trained surgeons have your mighty wisdom to humble themselves to.

 

[H0012]

Thank god these world class trained surgeons have your mighty wisdom to humble themselves to.

It's not mighty wisdom its common sense ethics your parents should have taught you when you were young.

 

[H0012]

This is what surgery culture is. I'm not saying its nice, I'm saying "it is"

If you're that triggered by it for a few minutes, no way you make it through a residency. That leaves applying to other specialties, or working to bring political correctness to hundreds of PDs.

I didn't "get triggered" I made a funny post about it. I was laughing quite a bit at these people who are obviously taking themselves far too seriously.

"This is what surgery culture is"

No. The competitive attitude is part of surgery culture. I assure you that many surgeons are professionally very competitive people who at the same time focus primarily upon caring for their patients.

If they don't actually care about their patients, they are smart enough not to reveal it to the world on the internet like the above residents.

 

[Dires]

Your post, in jest, is funny. Some of the things they wrote sound ridiculous outside of the context and experiences they had in residency. I’m currently going through similar training they completed so its easier to understand where they are coming from. You can’t share that perspective yet, and that’s okay. But I wouldn’t chalk them all up as arrogant, selfish and self-absorbed after reading a few lines from a personal statement (I know you didn’t straight up call them this). I certainly wouldn’t extrapolate this to how a surgical residency will affect you as a person.

One of the hardest things we have to do on a daily basis is relate to patients/people we have nothing in common with. The sickest of people often have had the roughest of circumstances and have done some of the most ridiculous things. At the end of the day you can’t let that affect your care. You still have a job to do which requires you to spend an extensive amount of time and energy being with your patients. You have to ask yourself, if this was my family member what would I do for them? How much time would I spend with them, how patient would I be with them, etc...

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Any practicing surgeon would agree with my original post

Nope.



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[MediCane2006]

Any practicing surgeon would agree with my original post

Incorrect, dear....

 

[MSTPlease]

If I’m understanding your post correctly, these were written by outgoing residents at the request of Hopkins so presumably these are meant to be a mix of inspirational speech for younger residents, recruiting tool for MS4s, and nostalgia for former Hopkins trainees. Don’t really see the big deal.

Except for the take care of medical needs line. That’s only the case if things like diabetes aren’t considered a medical need.

 

[H0012]

Your post, in jest, is funny. Some of the things they wrote sound ridiculous outside of the context and experiences they had in residency. I’m currently going through similar training they completed so its easier to understand where they are coming from. You can’t share that perspective yet, and that’s okay. But I wouldn’t chalk them all up as arrogant, selfish and self-absorbed after reading a few lines from a personal statement (I know you didn’t straight up call them this). I certainly wouldn’t extrapolate this to how a surgical residency will affect you as a person.

One of the hardest things we have to do on a daily basis is relate to patients/people we have nothing in common with. The sickest of people often have had the roughest of circumstances and have done some of the most ridiculous things. At the end of the day you can’t let that affect your care. You still have a job to do which requires you to spend an extensive amount of time and energy being with your patients. You have to ask yourself, if this was my family member what would I do for them? How much time would I spend with them, how patient would I be with them, etc...

Dires,

I appreciate very much your kind and thoughtful reply. I aspire to care for my future patients with the empathy and respect you exemplify.

 

[operaman]

Adding my vote to the not cringe inducing at all. There’s nothing unreasonable in what they wrote and the focus on patients is implicit in their words. There’s an understood humility in their words too but it’s probably hard for a premed to pick up on just yet. Remember that all of them after 7 years have had failures and complications and they themselves have almost certainly hurt people along the way — some element of that just comes with the territory of surgery. Ask any surgeon and they can tell you vivid stories about their own complications. One of the ways you deal with that is seeing yourself as part of something bigger, a tradition of surgeons who are all fallible but well intentioned people who work hard and do their best for patients.

You can take some of it with a grain of salt. Yes most gen surg Chiefs should be abke to manage most complex medical problems, but then again none of them are going to go staff a MICU or CVICU without additional training. That said, personal statements sound even worse if you have to put a bunch of disclaimers in to keep the snowflakes from losing their s—t.

These folks spent 7 years and got some solid training. That’s the takeaway message. I would hope most surgical chiefs feel the same way at the end of their programs.

 

[ParallelLines]

OP I have a hard time believing you are a medical student. If you are, you must be one of the most pretentious and annoying people in your class.

 

[H0012]

There’s nothing unreasonable in what they wrote

"No Words" says: "I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs..." This statement is irrational. In fact it is insane.

and the focus on patients is implicit in their words. There’s an understood humility in their words too

"The Terminator" says: the purpose of the program is "continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..." That goal is neither patient-focused nor humble in the slightest.

Ask any surgeon and they can tell you vivid stories about their own complications. One of the ways you deal with that is seeing yourself as part of something bigger, a tradition of surgeons who are all fallible but well intentioned people who work hard and do their best for patients.. I would hope most surgical chiefs feel the same way at the end of their programs.

I believe you. However, the above statements do not reflect this tradition of humility. They reflect arrogance and aspirations to professional dominance.

but it’s probably hard for a premed to pick up on just yet.

This "implicit" and "experienced" understanding of the above personal statements you describe does not in fact exist. The statements are explicitly insane. One is tempted to think that the residents are just joking around.

Also, I'm a medical student.

 

[H0012]

OP I have a hard time believing you are a medical student. If you are, you must be one of the most pretentious and annoying people in your class.

Most people find ad hominem attacks pretentious and annoying. That's basically all you do. Grow up

 

[H0012]

im conservative

edit: and I'm going to bed... better luck tomorrow gents

 

[operaman]

"No Words" says: "I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs..." This statement is irrational. In fact it is insane.



"The Terminator" says: the purpose of the program is "continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..." That goal is neither patient-focused nor humble in the slightest.



I believe you. However, the above statements do not reflect this tradition of humility. They reflect arrogance and aspirations to professional dominance.



This "implicit" and "experienced" understanding of the above personal statements you describe does not in fact exist. The statements are explicitly insane. One is tempted to think that the residents are just joking around.

Also, I'm a medical student.

Not sure what to tell you. They’re confident people who have been through some dark times and emerged to be competent surgeons. I still find nothing irrational in their words and would hope an attending general surgeon feels competent to manage their patients medical and surgical needs. Sure the other dude loves his program but so do most other chiefs and I’m sure the chiefs at all the top hospitals could have a fun time breaking out the ruler and seeing how everyone measures up. Sorry I just don’t see the problem with any of these.

Maybe you’re right that surgery just isn’t gonna be your jam. That’s ok too. Find something you like and people you fit with and go take care of patients.

 

[deleted407021]

 

[bigindian4891]

"No Words" says: "I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs..." This statement is irrational. In fact it is insane.



"The Terminator" says: the purpose of the program is "continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..." That goal is neither patient-focused nor humble in the slightest.



.

I think you should throw in some underlined words to get the point across, since you've already used up bold and italics.

 

[Raney Schauer]

The residents above write like they just won World War 2. Surgical residency is hard --but its no D-Day , it's no Pacific Theatre. Unlike these "battle-tested co-chiefs," after their hellish experience at D-Day the marines didn't get six-figure salaries.

Next time, be sure to capitalize Marines if you're going to invoke us in one of your screeds.

 

[Money Moniker]

 

[ACSurgeon]

The following "personal statements" were written by Chief Residents in General Surgery at Johns Hopkins. I believe that these graduating Chief Residents were instructed to summarize their experience at Johns Hopkins.

I won't name the authors, but I will give them nicknames. You can google the text to find how who they are.

PREPARE TO CRINGE...

Resident 1: No Words

"As chief resident, I am confident that I can take care of any patient in this hospital and address all of their medical and surgical needs...

...It is an incredible gift for a patient—a person—to willingly subject themselves to anesthesia and to let another person wield the knife...The legacy of Halsted is pervasive. The lessons learned from my patients are with me wherever I go—in my heart, in my head, in my Hopkins-trained hands."

Resident 2: The Terminator

"The program has such a rich history of being the nidus for surgical discovery... That having been said, it is not merely focused on past accomplishments, but rather, it is dedicated to continuing its dominance of the surgical landscape..."

... I will always remember the strong relationships that I have forged amongst my co-chiefs"

Residents 3 and 4: Team Guadalcanal

"I was asked to give much of yourself, sometimes more than I thought I could...Physically, Hopkins asks you to study the physiologic impact of every stitch you throw... I had world-class facilities, field-leading experts, and battle-tested friends...

...I wanted a glimpse of the Halsted legacy...I am fortunate to consider my 7 other co-chiefs as very close friends, ones who I can count on for anything in the future. It has been an honor to train with these bright stars ..."
______________________________

To me, the above statements reveal an approach to medicine defined entirely by arrogant, sheltered, short-sighted professional competition instead of genuine humanitarian concern.

I want to tell them to "get a life." Where is their desire to serve others? They are all about "ME ME ME"....except for some "HALSTED" guy and they are all about "dominating" other people...and they write like ****: "as that having been said has been an honor" .... Where is their active voice?

The residents above write like they just won World War 2. Surgical residency is hard --but its no D-Day , it's no Pacific Theatre. Unlike these "battle-tested co-chiefs," after their hellish experience at D-Day the marines didn't get six-figure salaries.

"Dominance of the surgical landscape"..."Hopkins trained hands"..."I can do all medicine and all surgery for anyone on the planet.."

If I go into Surgery is this what I will become?

Yup. These quotes more or less summarize how I feel as a surgeon/intensivist. I am more awesome than anyone at the hospital, and I didn’t even train at Hopkins.

Sounds like you’re naive and idealistic. Once you’ve gone through any residency come back and post and let us know how you feel. If you chose surgery, you might get a chance to feel as awesome as the rest of us do...

 

[Oso]

This thread made me more dumber.

 

[Redpancreas]

As long as surgeons do their jobs, I could care less about how they choose to rationalize their career choices.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Who cares why someone does something? As long as they excel at it. I honestly give two ****s if my surgeon is doing it because he loves competition and being the best, or if he does it out of concern for his patients. If youre the best at it, I want you.

 

[Blackdogue]

Were you not aware of the fact that surgery is known for having a competitive culture that has more in common with varsity sports than safe space college campuses? Because when a surgeon makes a mistake, it kills the patient, as opposed to ruffling some hairs about intersectionality, there's a lot more competition and pride in excellence?

No offence, but I don't buy that the cutthroat competition of surgery is solely for the patients sake. This is really hard to believe given the amount of money surgeons make, especially if they are considered the best in their field. It's certainly a big motivator. The technical nature of the job (more of a craft compared to other specialties) also lends itself better to immediate comparisons between individuals, thus breeding competition. Not to mention that it's not really possible to become good independently, so you need to compete with others for OR time and for mentorship. We should also take into account that the problems that can be solved by cutting offer immediate satisfaction to the one who solves them, as well as the patient, thus making surgery the obvious option for competitive people with big egos who require that kind of satisfaction (or glory) from their job. And not all surgery is high-stakes, like open heart surgery or brain surgery. In many procedures it actually seems difficult to kill a patient with a single mistake, but I'm not experienced enough to judge. I just read somewhere that anesthesiologists actually get sued more often than surgeons. I can also think of other fields where mistakes are often fatal, like cardiology or intensive care for example.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Next time, be sure to capitalize Marines if you're going to invoke us in one of your screeds.

And there were no Marines at D-day. He needs to learn his history..


"I don't want to be like those surgical residents"

Surgical Residents- "Don't worry. You never will."

 

[Blackdogue]

I'm actually very curious about surgeons opinions on this. Do you guys think you could manage all of the medical needs of a patient if you had the time and interest? How is it possible to be able to do that as well as an internist that trained specifically for this purpose? Are non surgeons really inferior in your eyes? I'm not judging, I honestly want to know. I haven't even made up my mind about this myself.

 

[IMreshopeful]

The idea that surgeons can manage ANY medical disease is laughable. The next time I get consulted because they misread an EKG, can’t manage cardiogenic shock, miss an acute coronary event, don’t give antibiotics for several hours in sepsis, mismanage heart failure, give beta blockers to treat tachycardia in distributive shock, hold diabetes meds and send patients into a DKA or HHNK state, I’ll keep that in mind. Let’s not kid ourselves- I can’t do a lap chole or lap appy nor can I manage the associated postop complications that require surgery, but I can guarantee from experience that the can manage these problems better. We all have our strengths - let’s be honest.

I don’t personally care why people want to do a specialty. I went into what I do because I like it and enjoy going to work. It will provide me a comfortable income and life. If someone became a surgeon because it validates their ego or because they want to save lives then so be it. There is no question that surgeons do save lives. So do many other specialties - pulm/ICU, nephrologists, GI, cardiologists, heme/onc, the list goes on. It’s not always as immediate and gratifying but we all have an important part to play in patient care.

 

[Blackdogue]

The idea that surgeons can manage ANY medical disease is laughable. The next time I get consulted because they misread an EKG, can’t manage cardiogenic shock, miss an acute coronary event, don’t give antibiotics for several hours in sepsis, mismanage heart failure, give beta blockers to treat tachycardia in distributive shock, hold diabetes meds and send patients into a DKA or HHNK state, I’ll keep that in mind. Let’s not kid ourselves- I can’t do a lap chole or lap appy nor can I manage the associated postop complications that require surgery, but I can guarantee from experience that the can manage these problems better. We all have our strengths - let’s be honest.

I don’t personally care why people want to do a specialty. I went into what I do because I like it and enjoy going to work. It will provide me a comfortable income and life. If someone became a surgeon because it validates their ego or because they want to save lives then so be it. There is no question that surgeons do save lives. So do many other specialties - pulm/ICU, nephrologists, GI, cardiologists, heme/onc, the list goes on. It’s not always as immediate and gratifying but we all have an important part to play in patient care.

I don't know, man, sometimes hearing surgeons trivializing what other doctors do makes me uncomfortable in my choice to not become a surgeon, and I can't be sure if it's because they don't know enough about what others do or because I don't know enough because I just recently graduated medschool. If they really see their specialty as vastly superior, do they know something I don't? Would I be happier there, even if I was always bored out of my mind in the OR during med school?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The idea that surgeons can manage ANY medical disease is laughable. The next time I get consulted because they misread an EKG, can’t manage cardiogenic shock, miss an acute coronary event, don’t give antibiotics for several hours in sepsis, mismanage heart failure, give beta blockers to treat tachycardia in distributive shock, hold diabetes meds and send patients into a DKA or HHNK state, I’ll keep that in mind. Let’s not kid ourselves- I can’t do a lap chole or lap appy nor can I manage the associated postop complications that require surgery, but I can guarantee from experience that the can manage these problems better. We all have our strengths - let’s be honest.

I don’t personally care why people want to do a specialty. I went into what I do because I like it and enjoy going to work. It will provide me a comfortable income and life. If someone became a surgeon because it validates their ego or because they want to save lives then so be it. There is no question that surgeons do save lives. So do many other specialties - pulm/ICU, nephrologists, GI, cardiologists, heme/onc, the list goes on. It’s not always as immediate and gratifying but we all have an important part to play in patient care.

I will say that my experience with general surgeons has always been there are much better at managing medical conditions than any of the other kinds of Surgeons out there.

Your experience may be different, but I've never been consulted by general surgery for stable hypertension or Diet controlled diabetes like I have by ortho.

And at least an academic places, the surgical ICU is usually run entirely by surgeons, and med school I don't remember them Consulting the intensivist more than maybe once a month.

Is a surgeon my equal in managing most chronic diseases? Of course not. Are they usually good enough in the short-term while their patients are in the hospital? Frequently.

 

[Jdp00921]

This thread made me more dumber.

<-------

 

[MSTPlease]

I don't know, man, sometimes hearing surgeons trivializing what other doctors do makes me uncomfortable in my choice to not become a surgeon, and I can't be sure if it's because they don't know enough about what others do or because I don't know enough because I just recently graduated medschool. If they really see their specialty as vastly superior, do they know something I don't? Would I be happier there, even if I was always bored out of my mind in the OR during med school?

Dunning-Kruger effect fo sho

 

[Blackdogue]

Dunning-Kruger effect fo sho

Are you talking about me or them?

 

[ACSurgeon]

I don't know, man, sometimes hearing surgeons trivializing what other doctors do makes me uncomfortable in my choice to not become a surgeon, and I can't be sure if it's because they don't know enough about what others do or because I don't know enough because I just recently graduated medschool. If they really see their specialty as vastly superior, do they know something I don't? Would I be happier there, even if I was always bored out of my mind in the OR during med school?

Egos and joking aside, it’s easy for medical students to not appreciate the medical management that happens behind the scenes on a surgery service. As mentioned, academic general surgeons seldom consult medicine, and will admit all diveriduclitis/SBO and other patients who often have multiple medical issues and often don’t even need surgery. While you’re bored out of your mind in the OR, your chief is learning to operate while also thinking about the few sick patients or critical results they have to deal with once out of the OR...

We aren’t really internists who can also operate, but we certainly can manage a wide range of acute medical problems enough to usually not need internal medicine doctors to help us with inpatients.... unless someone has a statistic of specialty consultation of surgeons vs internists...

Disclaimer: in the community it’s commonplace for internal medicine to admit or consult on a majority of general surgery patients. Someone of that is for the surgeons convenience, and I bet it’s also for financial reasons. Nonetheless, IM at my community hospital has a very low threshold to call cards/EP/GI/neph etc etc...