critical care questions..

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beatadine

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Hi everyone,

I've been thinking a long time about this now, am really interested in critical care as a fellowship, but feel that I might not be the first one to jump and do procedures. Haven't much of an idea, not having really done critical care, but would love to hear from someone in the field if this kind of personality is a definite no-no. Also, how is procedure-related teaching and do most people, having the right education, manage to get by with procedures?

Would appreciate answers, or just freewheeling thoughts from ppl..

Thanks..
 
So what about critical care interests you? Also what level of training are you at this point? It helps to know these types of things so we can best answer questions.

And just to promote the new forum, if you are interested in critical care discussions (PICU/NICU and cardiology), think about joining the neonatology/peds critical care forum. 😀

In any case, most people I know in PICU really do like procedures. Intubations, lines, sedations, that kind of thing. Some critical care guys do their own bronchs as well.

beatadine said:
Also, how is procedure-related teaching and do most people, having the right education, manage to get by with procedures?
I'm not certain what you mean here. Can you explain further?
 
Thanks for the reply, Stitch

I am a PGY-1.
I am somewhat inhibited when it comes to doing intubations. When that situation arises, I just feel that the best person around should do it, and since that is never me, I kind of just stand back, and so I think it's kind of a vicious circle. I am pretty good at lines and sedations. So my question was, is there a structured teaching schedule for these things, because if you have to do it on your own, that scares me. If there area 5 other people around me wanting to up their number of procedures, I might kinda let it slide, I hate to be pushy like that.
What I really like about critical care is the complexity, and the fact that the more you know, the more you can actually use and apply. Every patient is different..Plus it's all about physiology, and clinical judgement, and about a million subconscious things that go on in your mind which lead you to make that decision, though you may not know they do, but it excites me that you are being challenged all the time.

Thanks for reading, didn't know a ped critical forum existed, will def check it out.
 
I am a PGY-1.
I am somewhat inhibited when it comes to doing intubations. When that situation arises, I just feel that the best person around should do it, and since that is never me, I kind of just stand back, and so I think it's kind of a vicious circle.

Outside of the crashing newborn intubations are rarely so emergent that it must be done by the best and the fastest. Remember, bagging is a more important, and, generally, more difficult to master skill than intubation and one that will but the time to do the intubation properly (even with the crashing newborn on the DR back-table). My observation of those who weren't good at intubation was that confidence (or lack thereof) played a significant role in their success (obviously hand-eye coordination and a reasonably steady hand played into it as well). Residency is a funny time for many reasons. One of those reasons is that you need to walk a balance between confidence in your abilities (yes, even as a know-nothing intern) and arrogance and this is especially true in the intensive care units where you are most likely to get to practice intubations. My observational experience was that NICU/PICU nurses and RTs, especially, will eat you alive if you are overly hesitant or milquetoast. But if you are respectfully assertive with a plan (by all means, double check with your senior resident/attending for any questions) and get the ancillary staff to give their input you'll see things go your way a lot including with procedures such as intubations. You're also going to have to develop the willingness to speak up and say "Hey, I'd like this this one [intubation]" to get your practice regardless if your "the best one to do it". Like I said, most intubations afford ample opportunity for the ones who need the most practice to do them. Another thing that might help is to see if you can get some time with anesthesia on some days just to do intubations. See what days the ENTs are doing T&As because they are real turn'n'burn cases with intubated kids. That controlled environment may help a lot with your confidence. I was really good at tubes from ~1/4 through my intern year. One of the things that helped me, believe it or not, was a week doing intubations with anesthesia on my third year surgery rotation (and this was all adults). A year and a half later it still helped me have a feel for passing the tube through the cords. Just some thoughts.
 
Outside of the crashing newborn intubations are rarely so emergent that it must be done by the best and the fastest. Remember, bagging is a more important, and, generally, more difficult to master skill than intubation and one that will but the time to do the intubation properly (even with the crashing newborn on the DR back-table). My observation of those who weren't good at intubation was that confidence (or lack thereof) played a significant role in their success (obviously hand-eye coordination and a reasonably steady hand played into it as well). Residency is a funny time for many reasons. One of those reasons is that you need to walk a balance between confidence in your abilities (yes, even as a know-nothing intern) and arrogance and this is especially true in the intensive care units where you are most likely to get to practice intubations. My observational experience was that NICU/PICU nurses and RTs, especially, will eat you alive if you are overly hesitant or milquetoast. But if you are respectfully assertive with a plan (by all means, double check with your senior resident/attending for any questions) and get the ancillary staff to give their input you'll see things go your way a lot including with procedures such as intubations. You're also going to have to develop the willingness to speak up and say "Hey, I'd like this this one [intubation]" to get your practice regardless if your "the best one to do it". Like I said, most intubations afford ample opportunity for the ones who need the most practice to do them. Another thing that might help is to see if you can get some time with anesthesia on some days just to do intubations. See what days the ENTs are doing T&As because they are real turn'n'burn cases with intubated kids. That controlled environment may help a lot with your confidence. I was really good at tubes from ~1/4 through my intern year. One of the things that helped me, believe it or not, was a week doing intubations with anesthesia on my third year surgery rotation (and this was all adults). A year and a half later it still helped me have a feel for passing the tube through the cords. Just some thoughts.

Well, add a few paragraph breaks and this is a really great post. 😀

I'd only add that changes in the way both patients are cared for and in residency training have led to a decrease in the opportunities for new residents to do procedures, including intubations. We don't intubate almost any meconiums in the delivery room and we have more folks in the units who intubate than in the past. Residents uncommonly do transports, etc.

An intern who is comfortable intubating is almost always someone who did an anesthesia elective somewhere along the way.

The decision to do critical care medicine of any stripe is based on your interest in caring for patients with complex multi-organ problems. It has extremely little to do with procedural skills and nothing to do with procedural skills you have as an intern.
 
oldbearprofessor,

you just made my day
Thank you 🙂
 
Well, add a few paragraph breaks and this is a really great post. 😀 Sorry, edited as reasonably requested😳

Outside of the crashing newborn intubations are rarely so emergent that it must be done by the best and the fastest. Remember, bagging is a more important, and, generally, more difficult- to-master skill than intubation and one that will buy the time to do the intubation properly (even with the crashing newborn on the DR back-table).

My observation of those who weren't good at intubation was that confidence (or lack thereof) played a significant role in their success (obviously hand-eye coordination and a reasonably steady hand played into it as well) or failure. Residency is a funny time for many reasons. One of those reasons is that you need to walk a balance between confidence in your abilities (yes, even as a know-nothing intern) and arrogance and this is especially true in the intensive care units where you are most likely to get to practice intubations. My observational experience was that NICU/PICU RTs and nurses, especially, will eat you alive if you are overly hesitant or milquetoast. But if you are respectfully assertive with a plan (by all means, double check with your senior resident/attending for any questions) and get the ancillary staff to give their input you'll see things go your way a lot including with procedures such as intubations.

You're also going to have to develop the willingness to speak up and say "Hey, I'd like this this one [intubation]" to get your practice regardless if your "the best one to do it". Like I said, most intubations-being nonemergent- afford ample opportunity for the ones who need the most practice to do them.

Another thing that might help is to see if you can get some time with anesthesia on some days just to do intubations. See what days the ENTs are doing T&As because they are real turn'n'burn cases with intubated kids. That controlled environment may help a lot with your confidence. I was really good at tubes from ~1/4 through my intern year. One of the things that helped me, believe it or not, was a week doing intubations with anesthesia on my third year surgery rotation (and this was all adults). A year and a half later it still helped me have a feel for passing the tube through the cords. Just some thoughts.

I'd only add that changes in the way both patients are cared for and in residency training have led to a decrease in the opportunities for new residents to do procedures, including intubations. We don't intubate almost any meconiums in the delivery room and we have more folks in the units who intubate than in the past. Residents uncommonly do transports, etc.

This seems to be the conundrum of training at a program with a fellowship or not. I look at the procedures and patient-care leadership that the fellows do/partake in vs. the residents where I am now and am impressed with how much of what the fellows do is what I did in residency. Plenty of intubations and umbilical lines and, in the middle of the night, I was the first line decision maker with NNPs there to help and the Neo available by phone. The residents seem to do much less here than I did. However, they get to see all the quarternary care that I didn't see in residency (ex. ECMO)

An intern who is comfortable intubating is almost always someone who did an anesthesia elective somewhere along the way.

The decision to do critical care medicine of any stripe is based on your interest in caring for patients with complex multi-organ problems. It has extremely little to do with procedural skills and nothing to do with procedural skills you have as an intern.
I totally agree. If it wasn't clear in my post, I don't think that intubation is an end-all, be-all procedure to learn. The side notes were mostly to emphasize that confidence is important for learning and getting good at procedures and is self-perpetuating and is desirable to do well in residency and fellowship (esp. in the critical care fields).
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