CSU (Vet Prep) v.s. WesternU

[rhinolovergirl]

Hi,

Looking for advice. In comparing the 5 years at CSU (Masters + DVM) and WesternU, the price for both programs is very similar due to my living situation options, so I am not worried about pricing at this point.

I am very likely going to be pursuing a zoological medicine residency and lots of research. I want to start being involved in general research as soon as possible just to get published. For this reason I am thinking that CSU would be a better choice to set me up for the future but I also don't love the idea of having to wait another year before starting (however could be time spent on a research project?) bc I have already been out of undergrad for a bit and I was really excited to be close to loved ones while studying at WesternU. I also am pretty neurodivergent which something I would not use as an excuse for academics however I do think that Western's curriculum leaves space for me to adapt my learning needs a bit more. However, if anyone wants to share what they know about CSU's curriculum style, I would love to hear about it. Basically open to any advice, thank you so much!

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[indysadventures]

This is tough, because these are both expensive schools, especially if you want to continue into residency and - potentially - zoo med. From what I hear, it's a pretty sparse field with a ton of competition (just something to be aware of). If I remember correctly, I think @pp9 might be able to shed some light?

As for the other factors, you can be successful at any school, but I'd consider staying close to family if that's important to you. Further, if your neurodivergence (fellow ND student here!) leads to exacerbations of symptoms when away from comfort zones, it's definitely something to consider as well, but that's a personal decision that only you can decide. If you have formal accommodations, it would not hurt to inquire about support for these at each school.

FWIW, I'm also an older student planning on internship and residency, and I personally would choose the option that would allow me to get to internship/residency as fast as possible and as affordably as possible - in your case, this may result in two different answers.

All-in-all, I'd avoid being too wooed by ranking or an "exclusive" program and focus on where YOU are the most likely to be supported and successful! This is ESPECIALLY true if you want to go into a specialty.

ETA: I think there’s been much more valuable things said below, especially since I am a bit unfamiliar with Western - as others better versed have said, there’s value in having a teaching hospital like what you’d have at CSU. It’s an excellent hospital with a wide range of staff and research. If you can get IS tuition at CSU, it’s definitely a very attractive option, but I will say as a fellow neurodivergent, mental health really matters, and is worth weighing as you approach vet school. Wishing you the best, doctor!

 

[pp9]

@WildZoo would have a better take on the residency route, I did not/am not doing a residency.

In general, school choice doesn't matter. I highly encourage you to save every single penny you can along the way. Zoo med across the board is significantly underpaid and loans sit and collect a lot of interest while you spend 4 years in school and 5-6 years specializing (assuming you don't have to take gap years in between things).

Research opportunities in schools are limited in general and sometimes it comes down to a bit of luck. Idk if CSU would be different in that regard.

 

[JaynaAli]

One thing I didn’t see mentioned in your comparison was that CSU has a hospital and Western is distributive. Both these models work and Western has been distributive for a while now, but there are pros and cons to consider. On one hand, a distributive model may set you up to be able to travel more and make connections at your away rotations and see training programs “in person”, but it may be harder to develop deep relationships with specialists to write letters of rec with a distributive model vs a teaching hospital where you see specialists regularly for years. It can be done, but I would factor that in to your decision. I did several offsite rotations, and having every rotation be an away rotation where you have to sort out housing and pet care and all that seems like it would suck, imo. Obviously it’s done successfully but if I were faced with two programs that were truly the same cost, I’d personally pick the one that offers me a teaching hospital to learn at.

 

[WildZoo]

It's honestly a tough call. A lot of the zoo residencies these days seem to really looking for people who have already published in the zoo/exotics realm at least once (if not twice) before starting. Of course you can get those publications during internships but it's really helpful to have at least one coming out of vet school. I don't know anything about Western's research opportunities, I know CSU has them because I've seen their students present at conferences. And of course doing a Masters would be helpful from that standpoint.

CSU has ACZM faculty, so that can be helpful in networking, getting opportunities for experience and research, and getting reference letters down the line. But you'll also find that any school that has ACZM faculty/an exotics service/etc also tends to attract more students interested in that path, so there's more competition for opportunities. So it's a bit of a catch 22. I'm not sure what opportunities Western has at all so it's definitely something to ask about, you could maybe even ask if any of their students have gone on to do zoo residencies. I imagine with it being a distributive model there might be some benefit to having more freedom in your clinical year choices, as far as doing externships, but I'm not sure how that all works.

That is all from the perspective of setting yourself up as best as you can for zoo residency, without knowing much about Western I would say CSU would maybe be the better choice there.

One thing I will caution against though, is putting all of your eggs in that basket too early, at the potential detriment of other aspects of your life. That's not to discourage you from pursuing that path, but just to be realistic in that, by their own choice or by the choices the universe makes for them, the overwhelming majority of people that start vet school wanting to do a zoo residency do not ultimately end up doing one. It's around a 5-10% match rate every year. The total percentage of people who end up working in the zoo field in some capacity with or without a residency is larger but honestly not by much. So when you're weighing pros and cons, please keep in mind that even setting yourself up for it as best as you possibly can and doing everything "right" does not mean you will end up getting there, or even that you will still want to do it when you get closer to making those decisions. It is worth giving your mental health and wellbeing in the moment and immediate future as much consideration as your longterm future plans, because life really likes to mess with those plans.

Hopefully that was some helpful stuff to think about, I don't feel like I can give you a "This is what you should do" kind of answer. On balance I personally would always choose a school with a teaching hospital over a distributive model but being close to family isn't something to be discarded lightly either.

 

[indysadventures]

It's honestly a tough call. A lot of the zoo residencies these days seem to really looking for people who have already published in the zoo/exotics realm at least once (if not twice) before starting. Of course you can get those publications during internships but it's really helpful to have at least one coming out of vet school. I don't know anything about Western's research opportunities, I know CSU has them because I've seen their students present at conferences. And of course doing a Masters would be helpful from that standpoint.

CSU has ACZM faculty, so that can be helpful in networking, getting opportunities for experience and research, and getting reference letters down the line. But you'll also find that any school that has ACZM faculty/an exotics service/etc also tends to attract more students interested in that path, so there's more competition for opportunities. So it's a bit of a catch 22. I'm not sure what opportunities Western has at all so it's definitely something to ask about, you could maybe even ask if any of their students have gone on to do zoo residencies. I imagine with it being a distributive model there might be some benefit to having more freedom in your clinical year choices, as far as doing externships, but I'm not sure how that all works.

That is all from the perspective of setting yourself up as best as you can for zoo residency, without knowing much about Western I would say CSU would maybe be the better choice there.

One thing I will caution against though, is putting all of your eggs in that basket too early, at the potential detriment of other aspects of your life. That's not to discourage you from pursuing that path, but just to be realistic in that, by their own choice or by the choices the universe makes for them, the overwhelming majority of people that start vet school wanting to do a zoo residency do not ultimately end up doing one. It's around a 5-10% match rate every year. The total percentage of people who end up working in the zoo field in some capacity with or without a residency is larger but honestly not by much. So when you're weighing pros and cons, please keep in mind that even setting yourself up for it as best as you possibly can and doing everything "right" does not mean you will end up getting there, or even that you will still want to do it when you get closer to making those decisions. It is worth giving your mental health and wellbeing in the moment and immediate future as much consideration as your longterm future plans, because life really likes to mess with those plans.

Hopefully that was some helpful stuff to think about, I don't feel like I can give you a "This is what you should do" kind of answer. On balance I personally would always choose a school with a teaching hospital over a distributive model but being close to family isn't something to be discarded lightly either.

This is very insightful and (unsurprisingly) far more nuanced than my answer, thanks for sharing your expertise for OP!

I completely forgot that Western has a distributive model. OP, wishing you the best as you make a decision and I hope wherever you choose serves your goals and dreams!

 

[pp9]

To echo what WZ said about the low odds and give some personal context...Illinois is one of the schools people aim for when it comes to zoo/wildlife stuff, so a lot of people have that interest going in. My class was ~125 people, roughly half of us were 'going into zoo med' on day 1. How many of us actually tried to get into zoo stuff at the end of school/after an internship? ~15. How many of us are working in a zoo now? 3, including one who is doing part time. The class below mine had more success (a small handful even got residencies), the class above mine had even less success.

And another note about research - Illinois students present at conferences a lot too but opportunities were still quite limited despite the impression that students are putting out papers left and right (sometimes it's just 2-3 students who end up with multiple papers). Idk anything about CSU personally but I can't imagine things are that drastically different there. Some of it is down to luck and right time/right place for a PI or clinician to pick you - there is a lot of competition at these schools to get in with the zoo/wildlife people for the exact reason you want to. Sometimes it even comes down to things that are entirely out of your control (the lab is full when you start school, but the PI only wants incoming first years who can devote 3+ years to the work, as a real life example). Based on my experiences alone, I would never recommend someone pick a specific school based off of the thinking that you'll get published. It doesn't always play out that way despite your best efforts, and that holds true for the vast majority of people I know. For every 1-2 students that publish every year, there are probably 30+ that tried to get into that exact same lab, or get that exact same position with a clinician who was starting a project.

I'm happy to talk more in DMs if you want. WZ and I took very different paths to get to where we are so it is a good idea to pick our brains to get an idea of how things can go when zoo is your goal. There are a lot of ways to get into the field if you play your cards right. I absolutely was residency-bound (in my mind, anyways) when I was a pre-vet/early vet student and by the end of school, had no desire to pursue a residency for multiple reasons, academics aside.

 

[rhinolovergirl]

All of these responses have been extremely helpful. Thank you SO much to you all! <3