Current PA student considering pharmacy school instead...

[PAtoPharm]

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Hi everyone; I'm currently a student in an anesthesia PA program (essentially the PA program analogue to a CRNA program) and am strongly considering withdrawing from my program to go to pharmacy school. Over the last few weeks, I have started to realize that I really don't enjoy doing work that emphasizes so much hands-on patient care, and I'm not sure if I have the right kind of mindset or personality to work in anesthesia, which involves making lots of "in-the-moment" decisions in critical care/emergency scenarios. I'm actually doing pretty well with the didactic coursework -- it's just that I'm starting to realize I don't enjoy taking care of patients in such a hands-on manner.

What's ironic is that, before I decided to attend the program I'm currently enrolled in, I had strongly considered going to pharmacy school instead and had a really hard time deciding which profession to pursue. The notion of simply showing-up to a retail store every day and working as a pharmacist has always appealed to me, and I've always been interested in pharmacology as an academic subject. Like I said, I had a really hard time last year when it came to deciding whether to attend PA school or pharmacy school.

The thing is, I do realize that the work of a pharmacist can be stressful, but honestly, I'd rather have to deal with that kind of stress than the kind of stress that direct patient care providers deal with on a daily basis.

I realize that there are concerns regarding an oversupply of pharmacists thanks to all the new pharmacy schools that have opened-up over the last few years, but I'm actually from an area of the southeast that hasn't seen many new pharmacy schools open, and the city I'm from seems to always have a need for pharmacists (it's regarded as being a REALLY undesirable area to live), based on the online job searches I've done over the last few years. But even if I did have some trouble finding a job, I think it really comes down to wanting to do the work of a pharmacist over what I'm doing now.

Anyways, having said all that, I was just wondering if anyone could give me an idea as to whether or not pharmacy school admissions committees would look unfavorably upon my decision to withdraw from PA school, since that's obviously what I'd have to do in order to go to pharmacy school. I would probably be applying with a GPA in the range of 3.4. - 3.5.

Also, are there any other concerns/considerations I should keep in mind if I decide to move forward with leaving my program and applying to pharmacy school?

Thanks in advance for any advice/responses....

 

[CUPharmD20**]

Look into how the pharmacy world is changing in regards to provider status. The push is to have pharmacists become more hands-on and proactive as a part of a health care team for patient. I encourage you to look into the different fields of pharmacy and the various career options a once you become a doctor of pharmacy.
Make sure you have all the prerequisites in place and they haven't expired according to the institution you are applying to.
Personally, I think you withdrawing from PA school would make you stand out in a good way to admission committees. Many applicants cannot distinguish why they choose pharmacy over other health care professions through direct experience like you can.

 

[Biochemistry2014]

Spend A LOT of time shadowing pharmacists before you make your decision. Just because you are not enjoying direct pt care as much as you thought you would does not mean you will enjoy the tedious aspects of a pharmacist's life any better. Eventually, as with any profession and amidst all of the stress, the mind tends to wonder, "what if?" How will you know that the stressors of pharmacy school/career will not bring about the same type of thoughts?

Remember, the grass is always greener. Take more time to heavily reflect.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Hi everyone; I'm currently a student in an anesthesia PA program (essentially the PA program analogue to a CRNA program) and am strongly considering withdrawing from my program to go to pharmacy school. Over the last few weeks, I have started to realize that I really don't enjoy doing work that emphasizes so much hands-on patient care, and I'm not sure if I have the right kind of mindset or personality to work in anesthesia, which involves making lots of "in-the-moment" decisions in critical care/emergency scenarios. I'm actually doing pretty well with the didactic coursework -- it's just that I'm starting to realize I don't enjoy taking care of patients in such a hands-on manner.

What's ironic is that, before I decided to attend the program I'm currently enrolled in, I had strongly considered going to pharmacy school instead and had a really hard time deciding which profession to pursue. The notion of simply showing-up to a retail store every day and working as a pharmacist has always appealed to me, and I've always been interested in pharmacology as an academic subject. Like I said, I had a really hard time last year when it came to deciding whether to attend PA school or pharmacy school.

The thing is, I do realize that the work of a pharmacist can be stressful, but honestly, I'd rather have to deal with that kind of stress than the kind of stress that direct patient care providers deal with on a daily basis.

I realize that there are concerns regarding an oversupply of pharmacists thanks to all the new pharmacy schools that have opened-up over the last few years, but I'm actually from an area of the southeast that hasn't seen many new pharmacy schools open, and the city I'm from seems to always have a need for pharmacists (it's regarded as being a REALLY undesirable area to live), based on the online job searches I've done over the last few years. But even if I did have some trouble finding a job, I think it really comes down to wanting to do the work of a pharmacist over what I'm doing now.

Anyways, having said all that, I was just wondering if anyone could give me an idea as to whether or not pharmacy school admissions committees would look unfavorably upon my decision to withdraw from PA school, since that's obviously what I'd have to do in order to go to pharmacy school. I would probably be applying with a GPA in the range of 3.4. - 3.5.

Also, are there any other concerns/considerations I should keep in mind if I decide to move forward with leaving my program and applying to pharmacy school?

Thanks in advance for any advice/responses....

You are making a huge life mistake. Accept your lot in life and be a good PA anesthetist. The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread thus far and offered advice. I will definitely be sure to shadow a pharmacist and make 100% sure it's something I'll enjoy doing for a living. While I'm on that topic -- would any practicing pharmacists who happen to read this thread mind describing what they consider to be the most unpleasant aspects of working day-to-day as a pharmacist? I.e., the aspects I probably haven't considered and/or don't know about?

@Amicable Angora -- your post has me concerned; can I ask why you think leaving PA school and pursuing a career in pharmacy would be such a huge mistake? Is it because of the job market oversupply issues? Or are there other reasons why you think I wouldn't enjoy a career in pharmacy? I'm very interested in hearing and considering what you have to say. Thanks....

 

[blackwolf2000]

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread thus far and offered advice. I will definitely be sure to shadow a pharmacist and make 100% sure it's something I'll enjoy doing for a living. While I'm on that topic -- would any practicing pharmacists who happen to read this thread mind describing what they consider to be the most unpleasant aspects of working day-to-day as a pharmacist? I.e., the aspects I probably haven't considered and/or don't know about?

@Amicable Angora -- your post has me concerned; can I ask why you think leaving PA school and pursuing a career in pharmacy would be such a huge mistake? Is it because of the job market oversupply issues? Or are there other reasons why you think I wouldn't enjoy a career in pharmacy? I'm very interested in hearing and considering what you have to say. Thanks....

Absolutely stay where you are. Go to smartclass.com and look at the school rankings. Most all of the new pharmacy schools are private (some for-profit). I have been asked by a 1/2 dozen people the past year about attending pharmacy school. I tell them no. Go be a PA if you want in healthcare. Your salaries are on the rise; so is your demand. My health-system added dozens of new mid-level positions the past few years. Our demand and salaries are decreasing. We are where attorneys were 10 years ago. Some of these graduates now are incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. For a job that is becoming increasingly more saturated. I assume their youth and naivety prevents them from seeing how dangerous that is. It's all funny money until you cut that check once a month. Their loans are a mortgage. To a very nice house. Try buying a house with that debt to income ratio. Then start a family. Buy a
car. You get the point.

If you are near Philly, the job market is abysmal. It is only getting worse. Now I have been a hospital pharmacist 20 years, I have seen a $10,000 sign-on bonus and they moved me cross country for my first job. Last year, I took a $13,000 pay cut. (Thanks, ACA). Many lost their job, so I guess I should be lucky. The ACA is killing hospitals. 15 years ago I would have said go for it. Now. Unless you have Trump money, no way. I'm not a bitter old pharmacist. I love my job. Just someone who has seen the past, present, and future of pharmacy. The future is bleak. Don't believe the hype.

 

[blackwolf2000]

Look into how the pharmacy world is changing in regards to provider status. The push is to have pharmacists become more hands-on and proactive as a part of a health care team for patient. I encourage you to look into the different fields of pharmacy and the various career options a once you become a doctor of pharmacy.

Provider status is a joke. It will never happen and if it did, it would be a trainwreck.

First, you have to get Medicare to even recognize pharmacists as "providers". Good luck with that. Then if you did, you have to get them to pay you. And by you I mean the individual (not clinic, drug store, etc). Look how well it worked for immunizations. (sarcasm). Overworking already overworked pharmacists who see none of the money, but CVS, etc does. How much blood glucose monitoring would you have to charge for to pay for and extra pharmacist? Again, great in theory. Not gonna happen. What WOULD happen is have the already overworked pharmacist do whatever it is they are supposed to do now, on top of flu shots, counseling, fill hundreds of scripts. Oh by the way. You can't make an error. That is why retail pharmacists burn out.

You have the AMA fighting against you as well as other groups. The APhA is useless. It sounds great in theory but, in reality, not-so-much.

1.) It you want provider status you should have gone to medical school.
2.) Go work in a VA or in Canada.
3.) You want limited prescribing privileges but are you willing to pay for the malpractice insurance?

Academia and the ASHP are promoting some serious BS. But what do I know. I'm just a grouchy old hospital pharmacist.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread thus far and offered advice. I will definitely be sure to shadow a pharmacist and make 100% sure it's something I'll enjoy doing for a living. While I'm on that topic -- would any practicing pharmacists who happen to read this thread mind describing what they consider to be the most unpleasant aspects of working day-to-day as a pharmacist? I.e., the aspects I probably haven't considered and/or don't know about?

@Amicable Angora -- your post has me concerned; can I ask why you think leaving PA school and pursuing a career in pharmacy would be such a huge mistake? Is it because of the job market oversupply issues? Or are there other reasons why you think I wouldn't enjoy a career in pharmacy? I'm very interested in hearing and considering what you have to say. Thanks....

Your PA education is quicker, your income is comparable, your job prospects are more numerous, you are already committed.

 

[blackwolf2000]

Look into how the pharmacy world is changing in regards to provider status. The push is to have pharmacists become more hands-on and proactive as a part of a health care team for patient. I encourage you to look into the different fields of pharmacy and the various career options a once you become a doctor of pharmacy.
Make sure you have all the prerequisites in place and they haven't expired according to the institution you are applying to.
Personally, I think you withdrawing from PA school would make you stand out in a good way to admission committees. Many applicants cannot distinguish why they choose pharmacy over other health care professions through direct experience like you can.

Here's an article about our current state of "provider status".

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.co...-and-dandy-pharmacists-need-get-paid?page=0,1

 

[PAtoPharm]

Your PA education is quicker, your income is comparable, your job prospects are more numerous, you are already committed.

Thanks for your response. Actually, the job prospects in the field I'm currently pursuing might not actually be more numerous; as it stands, we can work in less than half the states, although more states are opening-up every couple of years or so. However, even in states in which anesthesia PAs can obtain licensure, job prospects still tend to be somewhat limited due to several different factors.

BTW, it's worth mentioning that there is also the issue of a potential oversupply crippling the anesthesia midlevel job market (research "CRNA oversupply" and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about).

On the other hand, I come from a region of the country that most people consider to be a VERY undesirable place to live (there's actual statistical, survey-based evidence for this statement), and performing even just a brief Indeed.com search for pharmacist jobs always yields at least 15-20 openings for FT pharmacists. Of course, this particular circumstance could change in the future depending on just how desperate new pharm. grads become for ANY job, anywhere in the country.

I agree with you about the fact that I'm already committed, but what it really comes down to is that I'm not sure whether or not this type of work is for me. It's hard to explain to people who (I assume) aren't really familiar with the nature of the work, but it's very critical care-oriented and requires practitioners to be able to make quick-thinking, last-minute decisions in mere seconds in order to avert patient death, the infliction of permanent brain damage, etc. I'm just not sure if I'm the kind of person who is really, truly a good fit for such fast-paced, hands-on work. The thing is, these kinds of programs have ways of weeding-out those who aren't particularly good "fits" for this type of work, so there's a very realistic chance that could happen to me, regardless of what I *want* to do.

So in other words, the point I'm trying to make is that this kind of work might simply not be for me, and I might just be a better fit for pharmacy. Would it really, truly be that bad of an idea to attend pharmacy school if I make it an imperative to begin working as an intern at a local chain during my 3rd/4th year to increase my chances of getting hired? Like I said, I live in a really crappy, undesirable area of the southeast, and for decades, there have only ever been 2 pharm schools within a 2-3 hour radius of where I live....

 

[PAtoPharm]

Absolutely stay where you are. Go to smartclass.com and look at the school rankings. Most all of the new pharmacy schools are private (some for-profit). I have been asked by a 1/2 dozen people the past year about attending pharmacy school. I tell them no. Go be a PA if you want in healthcare. Your salaries are on the rise; so is your demand. My health-system added dozens of new mid-level positions the past few years. Our demand and salaries are decreasing. We are where attorneys were 10 years ago. Some of these graduates now are incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. For a job that is becoming increasingly more saturated. I assume their youth and naivety prevents them from seeing how dangerous that is. It's all funny money until you cut that check once a month. Their loans are a mortgage. To a very nice house. Try buying a house with that debt to income ratio. Then start a family. Buy a
car. You get the point.

If you are near Philly, the job market is abysmal. It is only getting worse. Now I have been a hospital pharmacist 20 years, I have seen a $10,000 sign-on bonus and they moved me cross country for my first job. Last year, I took a $13,000 pay cut. (Thanks, ACA). Many lost their job, so I guess I should be lucky. The ACA is killing hospitals. 15 years ago I would have said go for it. Now. Unless you have Trump money, no way. I'm not a bitter old pharmacist. I love my job. Just someone who has seen the past, present, and future of pharmacy. The future is bleak. Don't believe the hype.

Thanks for your input. Do you know if the ACA has resulted in retail chains lowering pharmacist salaries as well?

Also, regarding what you said about Philly being oversaturated -- I actually live in a small city in the southeast that most people don't want to live in, and the job market has always been pretty strong here because of that and other reasons.

But this is probably the most important point -- if someone doesn't want to do hands-on, fast-paced direct patient care (or they're not really a good candidate for that type of work in general), and if pharmacy happens to be a better fit for their personality style and interests, then should they force themselves to suck it up and be a PA anyways?

 

[Amicable Angora]

Thanks for your response. Actually, the job prospects in the field I'm currently pursuing might not actually be more numerous; as it stands, we can work in less than half the states, although more states are opening-up every couple of years or so. However, even in states in which anesthesia PAs can obtain licensure, job prospects still tend to be somewhat limited due to several different factors.

BTW, it's worth mentioning that there is also the issue of a potential oversupply crippling the anesthesia midlevel job market (research "CRNA oversupply" and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about).

On the other hand, I come from a region of the country that most people consider to be a VERY undesirable place to live (there's actual statistical, survey-based evidence for this statement), and performing even just a brief Indeed.com search for pharmacist jobs always yields at least 15-20 openings for FT pharmacists. Of course, this particular circumstance could change in the future depending on just how desperate new pharm. grads become for ANY job, anywhere in the country.

I agree with you about the fact that I'm already committed, but what it really comes down to is that I'm not sure whether or not this type of work is for me. It's hard to explain to people who (I assume) aren't really familiar with the nature of the work, but it's very critical care-oriented and requires practitioners to be able to make quick-thinking, last-minute decisions in mere seconds in order to avert patient death, the infliction of permanent brain damage, etc. I'm just not sure if I'm the kind of person who is really, truly a good fit for such fast-paced, hands-on work. The thing is, these kinds of programs have ways of weeding-out those who aren't particularly good "fits" for this type of work, so there's a very realistic chance that could happen to me, regardless of what I *want* to do.

So in other words, the point I'm trying to make is that this kind of work might simply not be for me, and I might just be a better fit for pharmacy. Would it really, truly be that bad of an idea to attend pharmacy school if I make it an imperative to begin working as an intern at a local chain during my 3rd/4th year to increase my chances of getting hired? Like I said, I live in a really crappy, undesirable area of the southeast, and for decades, there have only ever been 2 pharm schools within a 2-3 hour radius of where I live....

What you'll find when you get older (I'm assuming you're pretty young) is that the majority of people are incompetent. Rather have you trying your best as a PA than some washed up scrub "filling" the role.

 

[PAtoPharm]

What you'll find when you get older (I'm assuming you're pretty young) is that the majority of people are incompetent. Rather have you trying your best as a PA than some washed up scrub "filling" the role.

The programs are pretty competitive to gain acceptance to, so I don't think there's much of a risk that some random goof-off is going to apply and attend the program just for the hell of it, LOL.

 

[W19]

Your PA education is quicker, your income is comparable, your job prospects are more numerous, you are already committed.

They can only work in a few states...

 

[blackwolf2000]

Thanks for your input. Do you know if the ACA has resulted in retail chains lowering pharmacist salaries as well?

Also, regarding what you said about Philly being oversaturated -- I actually live in a small city in the southeast that most people don't want to live in, and the job market has always been pretty strong here because of that and other reasons.

But this is probably the most important point -- if someone doesn't want to do hands-on, fast-paced direct patient care (or they're not really a good candidate for that type of work in general), and if pharmacy happens to be a better fit for their personality style and interests, then should they force themselves to suck it up and be a PA anyways?

Well ultimately you are the only one that can answer that. Are there any jobs for PAs that has limited patient interaction? All I'm familiar with are the PAs I see in the hospital; cardiac, orthopedic, IM. A lot of specialty positions. Maybe an industry job? Like with Big Pharma. I guarantee there are PAs working in the industry. I understand about limited patient contact. It's one of the reasons I became the only pharmacist out of a very large medical family. I am also very introverted to which working nights caters to.

I heard about the CRNA oversupply on Reddit. You are correct. Their salaries are going to vastly drop and the number of positions too I imagine. You probably would be wise to, at minimum, get out of the OR. A few years ago my place dumped two nursing homes. Just shuttered them. They are cutting everywhere; well seemingly. It appears they can't have enough upper management. They have so many newly created SVP of some bull****, or EVP of blah blah. The org chart is ridiculous. Yet they let go of two grill cooks by closing the kitchen grill at one hospital in our system earlier. What did they save? $22,000 between them both? Silly.

The ACA is affecting all of healthcare. In a variety of different ways. If it hasn't affected a segment yet, it will. Honestly, there is a much bigger role now for the mid-levels. I told you about all the hiring my hospital did. They got rid of one nocturnist and replaced with a PA. A lot cheaper. The government makes up **** as they go along. Medicare reimbursements are way lower and the rules got tighter. Discharge a CHF patient patient? oh, who buy the way is 350 lbs diabetic and smokes. He comes back within 30 days. Tough ****; not paying for the readmission. Like we have control over them on the outside. Oh well, just venting.

I know for a fact that retail (like everywhere) is doing more with less. Just go to /r/pharmacy on Redditt. yeah, we get grouchy but it is an unfiltered view of our profession. If you do go to pharmacy school, just make damn sure you want to for the right reasons. It's too expensive to not be all in. If you are sincere and industrious, you will find a job. Period. Maybe you have to move. But I'm am a firm believer of you get out what you put in. I think part of the problem we are seeing now is a generational thing. Kids for too many years of getting with little effort. In some ways the pharmacy schools are promoting this. There is someone on here I read that got in Rx school with a 2.3 GPA and a PCAT in the 30th percentile. Undoubtedly, she is going to one of these Devry Institutes of Pharmacy ending up with a debt in the hundreds of thousands. The NAPLEX passing rates are unbelievable. Some are around 75%. I took mine in the mid 90s. My school had a 100% passing rate for years. There is about to be a ****load of -minimally education, probably shouldn't been accepted- pharmacists about to be unleashed. That is scary.

But if you really want it, just do your research and good luck.

 

[Amicable Angora]

The programs are pretty competitive to gain acceptance to, so I don't think there's much of a risk that some random goof-off is going to apply and attend the program just for the hell of it, LOL.

Incompetence is everywhere. I just heard a P3 student ask during a TB lecture about Isoniazid, "If we miss a dose, can we double the dose???"

 

[Dalteparin]

I posted in your other thread too, but just want to add something else here: If I were an admissions committee member and saw that you had dropped out of any other professional school to do pharmacy, I'd strongly recommend that we reject you. Why should I admit someone who's already dropped out of a program? This person has already wasted a seat in professional school once; what assurance do I have that they won't do it again?

 

[Amicable Angora]

I posted in your other thread too, but just want to add something else here: If I were an admissions committee member and saw that you had dropped out of any other professional school to do pharmacy, I'd strongly recommend that we reject you. Why should I admit someone who's already dropped out of a program? This person has already wasted a seat in professional school once; what assurance do I have that they won't do it again?

Plus the whole bit about not liking PA school because of patient interaction... who runs from PA school to pharmacy thinking that there is less patient interaction? If anything there's more, plus more disrespect.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I posted in your other thread too, but just want to add something else here: If I were an admissions committee member and saw that you had dropped out of any other professional school to do pharmacy, I'd strongly recommend that we reject you. Why should I admit someone who's already dropped out of a program? This person has already wasted a seat in professional school once; what assurance do I have that they won't do it again?

So in other words, even if anesthesia ends up just flat-out not being my field, I should still be obligated to force myself to do everything I can to get through the program? Why shouldn't I have the same opportunity as everyone else to pursue a career that's actually the best fit for me?

Here's another thing to consider.... isn't it dangerous to force someone into a career that they're not really passionate about that involves being directly responsible for maintaining patients' airways, BP, HR, RR, etc. (I.e., keeping them alive)?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Plus the whole bit about not liking PA school because of patient interaction... who runs from PA school to pharmacy thinking that there is less patient interaction? If anything there's more, plus more disrespect.

Well, it's not really about not liking the concept of patient care itself; it's more a matter of the *type* of patient care involved. For example -- nursing assistants/techs and endocrinologists both provide patient care, but it's practically an assurance that the endocrinologist would absolutely NOT enjoy taking care of patients in the same capacity as the nursing assistant/tech does.

 

[darknightzzz]

@PAtoPharm I think you are just in the middle of burnt out and self-doubting mood, which many professional students experience once in a while. and they usually doubt what they are doing. but i can assure you in all honesty that PA school is harder to get into pharmacy schools and your field will be easier to find jobs in.

you can definitely apply to pharmacy schools given you have enough pre req and above 2.8 GPA.

to the people here talking like pharmacy is still high up and highly sought after professional schools, please check your fact. pharmacy school admission TODAY NOW is like open admission with very low rejection numbers. Thus, as long as you have your base covered, you breathe, and you fill out information to take out loans, you can go to pharmacy schools.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Well, it's not really about not liking the concept of patient care itself; it's more a matter of the *type* of patient care involved. For example -- nursing assistants/techs and endocrinologists both provide patient care, but it's practically an assurance that the endocrinologist would absolutely NOT enjoy taking care of patients in the same capacity as the nursing assistant/tech does.

So you think you'll enjoy people asking you ******ed questions over the phone, in person, and yelling at you instead?

 

[PAtoPharm]

So you think you'll enjoy people asking you ******ed questions over the phone, in person, and yelling at you instead?

I doubt I would enjoy those things you mentioned, of course, but I'm sure you've heard talk from folks who work in the OR who complain about having to deal with rude, pushy, arrogant surgeons, so I guess dealing with rude *****s (or rude smart people, for that matter) is going to be par for the course in either profession.

FWIW, I've always been something of a "night owl" and plan to work nights FT, regardless of which career I end up settling on. Actually, a schedule that has me working 3 12 hour shifts per week each on Fri., Sat., and Sun. nights (e.g., from 12 AM-to-12 PM) would be ideal. I say this because I have heard in the past that nightshift pharmacists don't really have to deal with much in the way of patient/customer/anyone interactions, but I don't know how true this is (just mentioning it in passing here).

 

[Dalteparin]

So in other words, even if anesthesia ends up just flat-out not being my field, I should still be obligated to force myself to do everything I can to get through the program? Why shouldn't I have the same opportunity as everyone else to pursue a career that's actually the best fit for me?

Here's another thing to consider.... isn't it dangerous to force someone into a career that they're not really passionate about that involves being directly responsible for maintaining patients' airways, BP, HR, RR, etc. (I.e., keeping them alive)?

I'm just giving you the perspective of a pharmacy admissions committee, which is that if you've already quit once, it's a pretty big gamble that you won't quit again. Not many adcoms will be willing to take that risk. If you're absolutely convinced that you could never in a million years be happy as a PA and you need to drop out now, fine. Just be aware that you're not guaranteed a spot in pharmacy school. If I were you, I'd get a job as a tech at Walgreen's or CVS or Rite Aid so that you can see what you're getting yourself into. Hell, it might make PA school more appealing…

For the record, if you were in pharmacy school, hated it, and wanted to be a PA, my advice would be the same: professional schools don't like people who dropped out without a grave reason. (And by "grave reason", I mean someone in their grave, or about to be.)

 

[Dalteparin]

FWIW, I've always been something of a "night owl" and plan to work nights FT, regardless of which career I end up settling on. Actually, a schedule that has me working 3 12 hour shifts per week each on Fri., Sat., and Sun. nights (e.g., from 12 AM-to-12 PM) would be ideal. I say this because I have heard in the past that nightshift pharmacists don't really have to deal with much in the way of patient/customer/anyone interactions, but I don't know how true this is (just mentioning it in passing here).

Hospital nightshift pharmacists don't have to deal with patients*, but they still have to deal with rude, pushy nurses and rude, pushy doctors. Retail, on the other hand, of course they deal with patients on nightshift! If nobody came to the pharmacy at night, there'd be no reason to have a 24 hour pharmacy.

*if they're centralized, but not all of them are.

 

[darknightzzz]

I'm just giving you the perspective of a pharmacy admissions committee, which is that if you've already quit once, it's a pretty big gamble that you won't quit again. Not many adcoms will be willing to take that risk. If you're absolutely convinced that you could never in a million years be happy as a PA and you need to drop out now, fine. Just be aware that you're not guaranteed a spot in pharmacy school. If I were you, I'd get a job as a tech at Walgreen's or CVS or Rite Aid so that you can see what you're getting yourself into. Hell, it might make PA school more appealing…

For the record, if you were in pharmacy school, hated it, and wanted to be a PA, my advice would be the same: professional schools don't like people who dropped out without a grave reason. (And by "grave reason", I mean someone in their grave, or about to be.)

please, have you checked upon the admission standards of pharmacist schools. True professional schools are not really down to admit students with a record of dropping out professional school previously. however, pharmacy schools are expanding and opening more seats they have to fill those seats regardless to make sure the mula comes => makes pharmacy admission open admission (if you are not a knuckle head you will get in given 2.9 GPA and ok PCAt and apply broadly)

 

[W19]

People here keep saying PA and I was under the impression that OP was (is) attending AA school. It's a big difference... PAs are physician extenders (whatever that is) and AA are anesthesiologist extender... PA can work in every state in the union (not sure about US territories), but AA can only work in a few states (probably <20) and they can only administer anesthesia under the supervision of a MD/DO. If OP is in AA school, it's a no brainer for him to switch to pharmacy as long he understand the dynamic of the job market. As a AA, OP will be competing with CRNA in a few states... and even in the states that recognize AA, I am not sure anesthesia group utilize them that much... I worked in 2 OR in south FL and never met an AA. For instance, the whole state of FL has around 300 AAs (per the state medical professional website)... so it's kind of a dead end profession if you ask me...

 

[Navster]

Can you change to a different PA specialty with less life-changing decision making?

 

[W19]

I don't think you can, but I was told there is a AA/PA program in GA that allows you to sit for both boards... If you do this program, you can become an AA and a PA...

If OP wants to change, he/she would have to apply again to a PA program as it would do for a PharmD program if he/she decides to pursue pharmacy...

 

[PAtoPharm]

I'm just giving you the perspective of a pharmacy admissions committee, which is that if you've already quit once, it's a pretty big gamble that you won't quit again. Not many adcoms will be willing to take that risk. If you're absolutely convinced that you could never in a million years be happy as a PA and you need to drop out now, fine. Just be aware that you're not guaranteed a spot in pharmacy school. If I were you, I'd get a job as a tech at Walgreen's or CVS or Rite Aid so that you can see what you're getting yourself into. Hell, it might make PA school more appealing…

For the record, if you were in pharmacy school, hated it, and wanted to be a PA, my advice would be the same: professional schools don't like people who dropped out without a grave reason. (And by "grave reason", I mean someone in their grave, or about to be.)

Thanks for sharing the perspective of an admissions committee member. I will definitely be talking with and shadowing a pharmacist or two in a couple of weeks, and if I decide to pursue to that route, then I'll look into working as a tech at one of the retail pharmacy chains. The thing is, with the way one of my lab classes is going, I might not actually pass the "final" at the end of the semester, so it might be a better idea for me to drop out within the next few weeks while I can still get a grade of "W." The reason I say that I might not pass (and also the reason as to why I quoted the word "final") is because the primary final exam itself is actually a simulation of managing a patient through all the stages of surgery & anesthesia (so it's almost like a theater/drama rehearsal). I've been doing somewhat poorly so far, getting flustered easily, making bad split-second clinical decisions, etc., so that's one of the things I mean when I say that this just may not be my field, and that I might not have a choice on that matter. BTW -- you can actually browse the Anesthesiology forums here on SDN and see that there are actual MD/DO anesthesiology residents who have been booted from their respective residency programs because it "just wasn't for them."

BTW -- my GPA is currently between a 3.4 - 3.5 (not sure exactly what it would be since PharmCAS includes every course attempt in GPA calculations), so hopefully there are at least a few schools out there that would consider that to be a competitive GPA, even if I have to apply to some of the newer private programs.

People here keep saying PA and I was under the impression that OP was (is) attending AA school. It's a big difference... PAs are physician extenders (whatever that is) and AA are anesthesiologist extender... PA can work in every state in the union (not sure about US territories), but AA can only work in a few states (probably <20) and they can only administer anesthesia under the supervision of a MD/DO. If OP is in AA school, it's a no brainer for him to switch to pharmacy as long he understand the dynamic of the job market. As a AA, OP will be competing with CRNA in a few states... and even in the states that recognize AA, I am not sure anesthesia group utilize them that much... I worked in 2 OR in south FL and never met an AA. For instance, the whole state of FL has around 300 AAs (per the state medical professional website)... so it's kind of a dead end profession if you ask me...

W19, you hit the nail on the head -- I am in an AA program, not a general PA program. However, I would rather not say which program/school I'm enrolled in since there are (relatively speaking) only a few AA programs in the country and I'd like to avoid "blowing my cover." Most of what you said tends to be true, regarding the limitations of the profession. There's also the potential issue of never being able to return to my hometown to live/work after I graduate because of animosity from CRNAs, the fact that local hospitals utilize practice models that AAs can't work under, and other issues. When I originally decided to attend my program, I was very apprehensive about these issues and almost decided to not move forward with the decision to attend the program. However, most AAs would disagree with your assessment that the AA profession is a dead-end one, as new states in which they can practice are opening-up every few years or so.

Can you change to a different PA specialty with less life-changing decision making?

Nope; I would have to attend a general PA program from the first semester.

 

[Amicable Angora]

This changes your story quite a bit... so it's not only because you don't have interest anymore, it's because you're failing.

Hypothetically, if you were passing and doing well, wouldn't you be enjoying your AA education?

 

[PAtoPharm]

This changes your story quite a bit... so it's not only because you don't have interest anymore, it's because you're failing.

Hypothetically, if you were passing and doing well, wouldn't you be enjoying your AA education?

Now, hold on a sec -- saying outright that I'm "failing" is a bit of a stretch at this point. What I meant was that my lab performance has been shoddier, I get flustered much more easily than most students, repeatedly skip/miss important steps, etc., and that at this rate, I'm going to fail my final lab "simulation" surgery, which is basically the final exam for the class (I.e., it's literally a run-through of a mock surgery during which the student is managing the patient's vitals, anesthetics, etc.). So technically, I'm not actually failing in the traditional "made-60s-on-the-first-three-exams" sense of the word.

But another thing is that, even if I was doing better skill/performance-wise and enjoying the work & training more, the other issues inherent to the profession itself are still prudent, such as me possibly not ever being able to return to my hometown to live/work afterwards, being forced to live in a city/state I don't want to reside in, etc. And sure, you could say that there are other students training to enter the profession who are facing the same potential set of circumstances, but the thing is, what does/doesn't bother them, of course, is irrelevant to what I'm comfortable with (subjectively-speaking).

BTW, it might be worth mentioning that these programs have had students fail out after finishing the third or fourth semester, usually because they had a meltdown experience during their lab simulation final. At that point, a student would owe around $100k in tuition/living expenses. So based on my understanding of how things have been explained to me, the students who aren't 100% committed, passionate "good fits" for the program end up being weeded-out sooner or later anyways. So the way I look at it is that if this really isn't my line of work, I need to be honest and forthcoming with myself so as to avoid learning that truth "the hard way," which would put me in a position of owing $100k+ in student loans AND having a seriously tanked GPA as another setback (<2.9 at that point). And with a decrepid GPA, I can forget about getting into pharmacy school, or any other health professions program, for that matter. Then what would I do, professionally, in that situation?

 

[MyRealNameIs]

Provider status is a joke. It will never happen and if it did, it would be a trainwreck.

First, you have to get Medicare to even recognize pharmacists as "providers". Good luck with that. Then if you did, you have to get them to pay you. And by you I mean the individual (not clinic, drug store, etc). Look how well it worked for immunizations. (sarcasm). Overworking already overworked pharmacists who see none of the money, but CVS, etc does. How much blood glucose monitoring would you have to charge for to pay for and extra pharmacist? Again, great in theory. Not gonna happen. What WOULD happen is have the already overworked pharmacist do whatever it is they are supposed to do now, on top of flu shots, counseling, fill hundreds of scripts. Oh by the way. You can't make an error. That is why retail pharmacists burn out.

You have the AMA fighting against you as well as other groups. The APhA is useless. It sounds great in theory but, in reality, not-so-much.

1.) It you want provider status you should have gone to medical school.
2.) Go work in a VA or in Canada.
3.) You want limited prescribing privileges but are you willing to pay for the malpractice insurance?

Academia and the ASHP are promoting some serious BS. But what do I know. I'm just a grouchy old hospital pharmacist.

Im not sure why you say it is a joke and will never happen? And if it did, it will be a train-wreck?

It already happens fine in VA and in Canada.
It already happens in some states in the US, specifically Texas

Drug store pharmacists would be overworked regardless of immunizations. That has more to do with drug store chains choosing to overwork pharmacists to maximize their profit. They still provide extra hours to meet the demands.

They will be overworked regardless of immunizations. The difference is, they will get less hours.

I swear I don't get why so many pharmacists are so negative and disrespectful about their own career and advancements. Must be the crop that signed up for the money and easy job back when there was a surplus of jobs and barely passed the courses. No wonder they have no confidence in their ability to do beyond the basic tasks.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Now, hold on a sec -- saying outright that I'm "failing" is a bit of a stretch at this point. What I meant was that my lab performance has been shoddier, I get flustered much more easily than most students, repeatedly skip/miss important steps, etc., and that at this rate, I'm going to fail my final lab "simulation" surgery, which is basically the final exam for the class (I.e., it's literally a run-through of a mock surgery during which the student is managing the patient's vitals, anesthetics, etc.). So technically, I'm not actually failing in the traditional "made-60s-on-the-first-three-exams" sense of the word.

But another thing is that, even if I was doing better skill/performance-wise and enjoying the work & training more, the other issues inherent to the profession itself are still prudent, such as me possibly not ever being able to return to my hometown to live/work afterwards, being forced to live in a city/state I don't want to reside in, etc. And sure, you could say that there are other students training to enter the profession who are facing the same potential set of circumstances, but the thing is, what does/doesn't bother them, of course, is irrelevant to what I'm comfortable with (subjectively-speaking).

BTW, it might be worth mentioning that these programs have had students fail out after finishing the third or fourth semester, usually because they had a meltdown experience during their lab simulation final. At that point, a student would owe around $100k in tuition/living expenses. So based on my understanding of how things have been explained to me, the students who aren't 100% committed, passionate "good fits" for the program end up being weeded-out sooner or later anyways. So the way I look at it is that if this really isn't my line of work, I need to be honest and forthcoming with myself so as to avoid learning that truth "the hard way," which would put me in a position of owing $100k+ in student loans AND having a seriously tanked GPA as another setback (<2.9 at that point). And with a decrepid GPA, I can forget about getting into pharmacy school, or any other health professions program, for that matter. Then what would I do, professionally, in that situation?

How is your new explanation anything other than "I'm failing?"

 

[PAtoPharm]

How is your new explanation anything other than "I'm failing?"

Even if I continue to struggle in lab on a week-to-week basis, as long as I'm successful during my lab final, then I pass the class with an A or a B. On the other hand, even if I'm the top-performing student on a week-to-week basis, if I bomb the final, then I fail the class. So my point was that I'm not failing in the numerical, grades-based sense of the word, because the weekly lab grades are basically based on participation, so numerically, I have the same grade as everyone else. It's more a case of "I will eventually fail if I don't do well during the lab final."

Look, I get that you take issue with me considering pharmacy school, and you are obviously entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to say here....

 

[Amicable Angora]

Even if I continue to struggle in lab on a week-to-week basis, as long as I'm successful during my lab final, then I pass the class with an A or a B. On the other hand, even if I'm the top-performing student on a week-to-week basis, if I bomb the final, then I fail the class. So my point was that I'm not failing in the numerical, grades-based sense of the word, because the weekly lab grades are basically based on participation, so numerically, I have the same grade as everyone else. It's more a case of "I will eventually fail if I don't do well during the lab final."

Look, I get that you take issue with me considering pharmacy school, and you are obviously entitled to your opinion, but I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to say here....

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of arguing, I'm genuinely asking you, if you were doing better would you still be thinking about switching out from your AA program? Is it really that clear cut that you got a big chance of failing your lab final? Isn't there some resource or something you can do with your time to improve your standing, and consequentially your interest/confidence as well? It sounds more like you are doing bad in AA so you want to switch, and not that you really don't have an interest or love pharmacy, if that makes sense.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of arguing, I'm genuinely asking you, if you were doing better would you still be thinking about switching out from your AA program? Is it really that clear cut that you got a big chance of failing your lab final? Isn't there some resource or something you can do with your time to improve your standing, and consequentially your interest/confidence as well? It sounds more like you are doing bad in AA so you want to switch, and not that you really don't have an interest or love pharmacy, if that makes sense.

Hmmm... I think it's kind of a mix of feelings. For one thing, there's a feeling of just honestly not being that into it, and when combining that with the fact that I'm one of those folks who naturally sucks at doing the hands-on work itself, it really does make me wish I had just pursued pharmacy instead. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I applied to pharmacy schools last year around the same time I applied to PA schools, and that I actually received a couple interview invites (would rather not say which schools so as to ensure anonymity here). In another thread, I just mentioned a few minutes ago to someone else that a large part of my decision to pursue the anesthesia route was due to superficial factors that really have nothing to do with the quality/nature of the work itself (e.g., slightly higher pay, maybe an additional 1-2 weeks of PTO, etc.). So to put it another way, now I'm wishing that I had pursued pharmacy instead, because even if I wouldn't make *quite* as much money as an anesthesia PA or get as much time off, I think I'd enjoy the work more (and be better at it, too).

Also, like I've mentioned on here several times -- as an anesthesia PA, I will be limited in terms of where I can live/work and might never be able to return to my hometown. On the other hand, as a pharmacist, I would almost definitely be able to do that, even if I'd have to wait a few months for a position to open up at a local retail clinic, hospital, etc. (I don't live in a desirable area, so the oversupply hasn't affected my locale much at all). In other words, the enhanced portability of being a pharmacist as compared to being an anesthesia PA is another factor that's important to me.

 

[Amicable Angora]

How many years is your program? 2? 3?

 

[PAtoPharm]

How many years is your program? 2? 3?

At this point, I've got about 2 years to go.... but what's even more important to consider is that I'll be paying back $200k or more if I finish the program, so if I end up getting through the program and then decide I want to go back to school to do something else for a living, it won't really be financially feasible to do so. I would have no choice but to do this for my career, regardless of how much I do or don't enjoy it and even if I'd be stuck living somewhere I don't want to be for the rest of my life (of course, it sounds like me being obligated to accept having no choice over any of this is what people want to hear).

 

[KyleV]

OP your situation is a lot like mine except for I had a bad experience in nursing school. I quickly realized that profession/ patient care wasn't for me. Withdraw now and go for the pharmD.

 

[snowywhite]

Just a pre pharmer here...BUT I'm a non traditional career changing student...from my past experience it's extremely important to enjoy what you do! Shadow a pharmacist or three...make sure you are interested before making a change. I was working on nursing pre reqs when I fell in love in an Intro to Pharmacology course...prior to changing my path I became a certified pharm tech and worked in the field...I do know while I could never remain a tech I will enjoy being a pharmacist. I am also ahead of the game in knowing that retail will be my last resort. I do not want to fight with the insurance companies all day...during my clinical hours the pharmacist was on the phone for 4 of the 8 hours between the insurance and the dr trying to get a lady an inhaler...she was sitting in the waiting area struggling to breath the entire time...I much prefer the hospital where you just deal with a formulary...best of luck!

 

[priyankathaker8]

Hi everyone; I'm currently a student in an anesthesia PA program (essentially the PA program analogue to a CRNA program) and am strongly considering withdrawing from my program to go to pharmacy school. Over the last few weeks, I have started to realize that I really don't enjoy doing work that emphasizes so much hands-on patient care, and I'm not sure if I have the right kind of mindset or personality to work in anesthesia, which involves making lots of "in-the-moment" decisions in critical care/emergency scenarios. I'm actually doing pretty well with the didactic coursework -- it's just that I'm starting to realize I don't enjoy taking care of patients in such a hands-on manner.

What's ironic is that, before I decided to attend the program I'm currently enrolled in, I had strongly considered going to pharmacy school instead and had a really hard time deciding which profession to pursue. The notion of simply showing-up to a retail store every day and working as a pharmacist has always appealed to me, and I've always been interested in pharmacology as an academic subject. Like I said, I had a really hard time last year when it came to deciding whether to attend PA school or pharmacy school.

The thing is, I do realize that the work of a pharmacist can be stressful, but honestly, I'd rather have to deal with that kind of stress than the kind of stress that direct patient care providers deal with on a daily basis.

I realize that there are concerns regarding an oversupply of pharmacists thanks to all the new pharmacy schools that have opened-up over the last few years, but I'm actually from an area of the southeast that hasn't seen many new pharmacy schools open, and the city I'm from seems to always have a need for pharmacists (it's regarded as being a REALLY undesirable area to live), based on the online job searches I've done over the last few years. But even if I did have some trouble finding a job, I think it really comes down to wanting to do the work of a pharmacist over what I'm doing now.

Anyways, having said all that, I was just wondering if anyone could give me an idea as to whether or not pharmacy school admissions committees would look unfavorably upon my decision to withdraw from PA school, since that's obviously what I'd have to do in order to go to pharmacy school. I would probably be applying with a GPA in the range of 3.4. - 3.5.

Also, are there any other concerns/considerations I should keep in mind if I decide to move forward with leaving my program and applying to pharmacy school?

Thanks in advance for any advice/responses....

Just realize that if you don't like the idea of being a PA right now while in school, imagine how it will be a few years from now when you are working as a PA. Will you regret it? Think about it and if you are truly into the field of pharmacy, I suggest you shadow or take a job at a pharmacy just so you know what you are getting into. It is never too late to change your mind. Just make sure this is what you truly want.