dat achiever

[SunnyD0119]

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hjey im taking a dat achiever test right now and the questions are reaally hard it turns out i did really bad on it like a total science 16 bio 14 gchem 19 orgo 15--anyone that has used dat achiever?? its really hard compared to the topscore i took yesterday

 

[gigit]

hjey im taking a dat achiever test right now and the questions are reaally hard it turns out i did really bad on it like a total science 16 bio 14 gchem 19 orgo 15--anyone that has used dat achiever?? its really hard compared to the topscore i took yesterday

The intent of this software, from my experience with few other buddies using the same tests, is to get users well prepared for the big day. Questions featured by this guide are truly challenging. We all got scores in the sub 20s except for RCT and some of its QRT, but all ended up getting 20++ on the real thing.

In my opinion, you should not rush into taking the next SNS test, as the standard of deviation associated with a score of 17 and lower is comparatively huge, which makes it hard to tell whether you are ready to score any better than that or not on the real DAT. I will strongly advise you to make use of the report on analysis summary which highlights where your weak areas are. Go through each solution given even if you've marked the answer correctly (Depending on which set of tests you're going to get on your test day, quite a number of questions especially from the bio, reading, and maths are very closely similar to what you'll truly see then). You'll definitely have to refer to your textbook and/or lecture notes to stringently equip yourself during this time.

Don't waste the mock tests given. When you can eventually get at least 18/19 on each category from this guide via your first attempt, I can almost guarantee that you're not too far from scoring in the 20++, and be really a DAT Achiever then.

 

[SunnyD0119]

lol i've got one week till the actual test....i guess im just taking tests in the morning and then studying at night
we'll see what happens

 

[gigit]

lol i've got one week till the actual test....i guess im just taking tests in the morning and then studying at night
we'll see what happens

Do your best then, buddy. But your low scores on bio and ochem are indeed warning signs there. Here's what I can try hightlight to you for your bio:

Concentrate on the following areas as outlined by the ADA:

1. Cell and Molecular Biology

2. Vertebrate Anatomy and Physiology

3. Developmental Biology

4. Genetics

> 30 bio questions are going to come out from these categories.

I'll leave the Ochem to you unless you have specific question to ask from here.

 

[SunnyD0119]

ok but i've also heard that there arent that many i ii iii iv questions w/ answers like a) i only And so on...but for these sciences i think that bio was definately harder than the real thing from who i've talked to also the pat seems really difficult but compared to topscore the dat achiever is ridiculously harder i was getting 20/19's on the topscores and liek 17/16's on the dat achievers i don't know what to expect for the rea test now so im just confused im going to go over all of the tests before the real dat but im just concerned as to what to expect you know for example...yesterday on Topscore test one i got a 21 in bio and then a 14 on the dat achiever???

 

[gigit]

I took test #1 and got TS = 22, RC = 19, QR = 25. I don't think I'll get 19 for the real RC test. Their RC test seems to be on the easy side. I could definitely get a better score for TS and QR. I misread a couple of QR questions (e.g. I read "..value is appreciated.." as "...value is depreciated.." and things like that...). I also made stupid calculation mistakes in G'Chem. Regarding O'Chem, a couple of answers seem to be based on shaky grounds:

(1) The amino acid question seems to be wrong.

(2) Question #96: At zero degree the kinetics of the reaction seems to outcompete its thermodynamics. I have investigated the question and the answer can be B or C. It can go either way. Because of the way the question is set up it's impossible for test takers to tell what the major product is without doing any experiments. If I were the author I would set that temperature to 25 or 40 to make sure the reaction is under a thermodynamic control.
Here is what John McMurry says about a similar reaction: "It doesn't matter that [product] C is more stable than [product] B, because the reaction conditions have been chosen so that B and C don't interconvert. The product of an irreversible process depends only on the reaction rate. Such reactions are said to be under kinetic control..." pp. 508-509, McMurry 4th edition
At zero degree, reactants usually don't have enough energy to go back and forth to form the most stable product. So, usually the product that forms the fastest (i.e. requires less number of rearrangements through pi system or molecular or atomic shifts, etc.) is the major product. Another words, the 0 degree temperature can make the reaction irreversible.

I took one of their PAT tests. I've gone over 1/2 of the answers and so far it has a couple of mistakes for sure. I don't want to debug their tests. If I were them I would double check my answers again. 😉

Glad that you came in, dat_student, with issues truly worth discussion here.

Based on what I can tell, you wouldn't have to worry much about your RCT given your strong background in the sciences. Remember, RCT in DAT is not a verbal test. It's something tied closely to your technical intuition. Who knows, you might end up getting a stock share passage and greatly get your score boosted then. This is what happened to one of my study partners.

I've taken both the MCAT and DAT myself, and can therefore identify what you mean by those shaky questions. In fact, questions of this nature are deliberately put in there to trap many inexperienced candidates, and you'll just have to move on from there without much arguing with the administered system there & then. I believe the author must have realized this and has therefore so included several questions of this kind to better simulate to the real thing.

For instance, Q84 of PAT 1 is considered shaky too but guess what... the same question came out in my real DAT and good thing I don't have to be trapped then. Several more I can tell you too in subsequent SNS tests, but I decide not to mention them here first since you've only attempted the first set tests so far.

Good question and concern posted and hope this thread will serve as higher ground for all aspiring candidates to achieve their desired scores ultimately.

 

[SunnyD0119]

so gigit, what do you think i should do concerning my differeing sciences scores in the topscore and dat achiever (b/c i need some advice for my test in a week) i still have 4 more tests to take 2 topscore adn 2 datach

 

[gigit]

so gigit, what do you think i should do concerning my differeing sciences scores in the topscore and dat achiever (b/c i need some advice for my test in a week) i still have 4 more tests to take 2 topscore adn 2 datach

Let me first direct you to an earlier thread by ecrown and rescuer on the PAT (strategies & 3D stuffs) if you've missed them somehow:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=205475

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=206859

But, you'll have to read smart and not be distracted by some of the nasty intruders there.

Now, it seems a bit strange to me for knowing a great disparity between your bio scores from topscore1 and dat achiever 1... cuz I don't think topscore SNS can be that much easier compared to dat achiever. They are both well written except for the fact that the latter having very close questions appearing in the real thing depending on which set of tests you get at the Prometric center.

Was your score of 21 from topscore a first or second attempted one?

I'm still a bit worried for you. cowsgomoo from SDN mentioned he ever got a 16 for his bio on the last set of test but ended up getting a 21 on the real thing.

You'll assuredly score better than 14 on the real thing but I can't tell how much better you can get from there. Try sharpen as much as you can before taking the next set of test and see if may improve your mock score from there or not, how does that sound to you?

 

[SunnyD0119]

i think thats pretty good i'm going to go over the tests tomorrow...the 21 in bio was on topscore test 1.....i think the dat achiever was especially hard b/c of the topics they were more in depth and topscore was a little more broad anyways however i ended up w/ a 19/16 overall on my first dat achiever and had a 20/19 on my first topscore -----total sciences were alot different though on topscore it was 19 and on dat achiever it was 16--the pat is much more difficult in dat achiever but i guess i've got nothing else to do but sharpen my skills im going all over the place w/ these scores and i jsut really want to get into dschool
so we'll see i'll look over all of the tests and let you know how i do on the next sones

 

[gigit]

I hope the real exam does NOT have mistakes. Test writers should NOT, under any circumstance, tell test-takers a wrong answer is a correct answer because in their opinion the REAL DAT may pick wrong answers as right answers. How can you justify inaccurae angle measurements? They say a 90 degree angle is bigger than a 100 degree angle (DAT ACHIEVER). Some test writers are classy but many aren't. I found mistakes in KFS-REVIEW exams (i.e. 1st version) and it took the company seconds to accept it and refund me money. It sometimes seems impossible to convince other companies that their answers are wrong. I've had the worst experience with ScholarWare (TopScore). I tell them some of their answers are wrong and they tell me an unknown professor knows better than me and I am wrong. I don't claim to know everything in the world but sometimes mistakes are obvious. Everybody knows membranes are composed of phospholipids which are synthesized by smooth ER. Phospholipids don't get made out of thin air. They keep saying they know an unknown professor who thinks rough ER makes phospholipid membrane. Bottom line: if there is a mistake please have the courage to accept and correct mistakes. I sincerely ask test writers to not blame the REAL DAT or UKNOWN DOCTORS for personal shortcomings and mistakes.

I'm not the author of DAT Achiever, but has used it extensively both for my past DAT preparation and ad-hoc guidance to others from time to time.

Crystal clear mistakes are of course intolerable. If I were you, I would not for the sake of 5 or 10 bucks inform that arrogant topscore for their mistakes at the expense of my "cheap" labors. In my opinion, they don't even fit in to discuss about errors since all of their test authorship depends largely from a varied group of third party contributors.

Now, back to your original concern ... you need to be aware that being shaky (ambiguous) does not mean blatant error/mistake is incurred. When the MCAT past administered papers were released in the 90s, errata were attached along with those 3R,4R... series sample test booklets. If such a renown standardized test of the nation can be erraneous, it will not surprise any sharp person like you to detect these in the DAT, regardless of what beta pool tested questions claimed by the Sylvan Learning (Prometric) Center.

So far, you've only explained your reasoning for Q96 of SNS 1, which is yet controversial at this point. I personally feel that this will not adversely affect the candidates very much since question involving thermodynamic and/or kinetic control in OChem will rarely be asked in the real DAT.

Now, what's your reasoning for the amino acid (glycine) question? I've checked the solution, it doesn't seem to explain anything wrongly.

Also, there are only two questions in Angle Ranking involving discrimination of 90 deg from a hundred, i.e., Q37 of PAT1 and Q34 of PAT2. I've double checked the answers and solutions. Nothing wrong too! Did you by any chance mistake this by yourself?

I'm not here to question you, but whatever you felt wrong has got to be substantiated by proofs or specifications. Hope our discussions will continue to turn out fruitful at least to the SDNers. 🙂

 

[SunnyD0119]

so what should we be setting our res at for our practice tests?

 

[sailinx]

I hope the real exam does NOT have mistakes. Test writers should NOT, under any circumstance, tell test-takers a wrong answer is a correct answer because in their opinion the REAL DAT may pick wrong answers as right answers. How can you justify inaccurae angle measurements? They say a 90 degree angle is bigger than a 100 degree angle (DAT ACHIEVER). Some test writers are classy but many aren't. I found mistakes in KFS-REVIEW exams (i.e. 1st version) and it took the company seconds to accept it and refund me money. It sometimes seems impossible to convince other companies that their answers are wrong. I've had the worst experience with ScholarWare (TopScore). I tell them some of their answers are wrong and they tell me an unknown professor knows better than me and I am wrong. I don't claim to know everything in the world but sometimes mistakes are obvious. Everybody knows membranes are composed of phospholipids which are synthesized by smooth ER. Phospholipids don't get made out of thin air. They keep saying they know an unknown professor who thinks rough ER makes phospholipid membrane. Bottom line: if there is a mistake please have the courage to accept and correct mistakes. I sincerely ask test writers to not blame the REAL DAT or UKNOWN DOCTORS for personal shortcomings and mistakes.

I think Rough ER makes the membrane not the smooth ER. Please check Campbell and Reece (p.119, sixth edition). Yes, lipids are synthesized by smooth ER but they are used for steroid harmones. The question is about the membrane not just phospholipids. I hope this helps.

Sailinx

 

[gigit]

I have to apologize. There is a technical glitch. When resolution is 800x600 angle 2 is bigger than angle 4 but when resolution is 1680x1050 angle 4 is bigger than angle 2. This is very annoying. I hope and pray that I won't have the same problem while taking the real DAT. I did NOT know that these tests are RESOLUTION DEPENDENT eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Wonderful, dat_student. I think those angles, like rest of most other drawings, are CAD verified, and they can't go wrong easily. My mistake too for overlooking the resolution issue. For best practice result, users should always choose a 15" or 17" CRT monitor (not flat screen or LCD by any manner), and a 2 button mouse (devoid of scroller). Resolution set to either 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768. (Recent test takers please help refine the setting suggested here.)

I think this might have been the reason for having numerous complaints on this section of the test lately at SDN. But, no matter how, you guys need to be aware that angle ranking should always serve as bonus section just like hole punching and cubes. Do not get hung up with 1 or few questions there. Use your best judgement and elimination method to make quick intelligent guesses. You truly need more time for rest of those involving 3D stuffs.

 

[Newhere]

Hey guys, im wondering if you can just download dat achiever instead of waiting for the cd... thanks

 

[gigit]

Hey guys, im wondering if you can just download dat achiever instead of waiting for the cd... thanks

I think they will still ask you to download via the following link at their website even if you request for a CD... cuz it doesn't make much sense for them to send out the setup.zip file to you when you can get it downloaded within minutes and seconds via broadband and probably 40-50 minutes using dial-up:

http://3tquest.com/Download/Procedure.htm

 

[gigit]

read about "unit membrane theory" That's an old theiory.

Are you saying all lipids except membrane lipids are synthesized by smooth ER? The membrane lipids must come from somewhere. They don't come out of thin air.

I think this is one reason for having occasional iffy quetions in any standardized test since we keep having half-truth from what we learn at schools, just like the topic on taxanomy. Actually, it's almost good news to whoever able to come to this level disputing and defending on each others' view -- strong trait not usually exhibited by a normal student and bound to be promisingly acing the SNS test.

You guys should learn from dat_student, who truly understand the sciences with great foundations built on first principle(s). Learn to derive equations, concepts, or theorems from scratch from time to time, where possible instead of hard memory or plug-N-use of all equations given from the text. Doing this will strongly boost your reasoning power and stay ahead of the rest. 👍 👍

 

[devan_smith]

I think I got different answers for the angles when I set the resolution to 800x600. I have a wide-screen monitor. That may be the problem. It may strech
everything. At higher resolutions many of my problems were solved as far as I could tell... I have to run out, bb later this evening...

I think the same thing will happen to a laptop too. I remember seeing the 3D cube for a sample question at the DEMO stretched and fattened no matter what resolution I set it for. It must have been due to the wide screen display that I have then.

 

[dlink]

Here's what I noted. For those using wide screen display, you should always set your resolution to native mode. Check out the hardware manual, and by default, it should be the one at highest resolution. However, all 3D objects will look a bit weird and out of proportion (stretched) at all resolutions set on a wide screen monitor, because of animation being involved here.

For best learning result, I will strongly suggest that a CRT monitor be used when practicing on the PAT. Most laptops can be connected to an external screen and you should make an effort to look for a CRT ( or at least a normal LCD) if you 're one of those affected here.

Hope the above info helps.

 

[joy2dmd]

I think Rough ER makes the membrane not the smooth ER. Please check Campbell and Reece (p.119, sixth edition). Yes, lipids are synthesized by smooth ER but they are used for steroid harmones. The question is about the membrane not just phospholipids. I hope this helps.

Sailinx

Yes, Sailinx I agree, Rough ER makes the membranes. Smooth ER makes the lipids that make up the membrane, the phospholipids to be percise. It just makes the lipid stuff, not the membranes. I did a search on google "rough er functions". Tons of stuff. I read some of it. Here is one good link http://www.cat.cc.md.us/courses/bio141/lecguide/unit2/eustruct/er.html

Unit Membrane is old, but it doesn't deal with this membrane making topic. here is a good discussion on unit membrane theory. This old theory deals with function and structure, not what organelle actually makes the membranes or compiles the parts made by other organelles into the membranes (like smooth ER lipid factory). Unit membrane paper: http://www1.umn.edu/ships/9-2/membrane.htm

Thanks for keeping it straight for me.

 

[iminnow]

I hope the real exam does NOT have mistakes. Test writers should NOT, under any circumstance, tell test-takers a wrong answer is a correct answer because in their opinion the REAL DAT may pick wrong answers as right answers. How can you justify inaccurae angle measurements? They say a 90 degree angle is bigger than a 100 degree angle (DAT ACHIEVER). Some test writers are classy but many aren't. I found mistakes in KFS-REVIEW exams (i.e. 1st version) and it took the company seconds to accept it and refund me money. It sometimes seems impossible to convince other companies that their answers are wrong. I've had the worst experience with ScholarWare (TopScore). I tell them some of their answers are wrong and they tell me an unknown professor knows better than me and I am wrong. I don't claim to know everything in the world but sometimes mistakes are obvious. Everybody knows membranes are composed of phospholipids which are synthesized by smooth ER. Phospholipids don't get made out of thin air. They keep saying they know an unknown professor who thinks rough ER makes phospholipid membrane. Bottom line: if there is a mistake please have the courage to accept and correct mistakes. I sincerely ask test writers to not blame the REAL DAT or UKNOWN DOCTORS for personal shortcomings and mistakes.

Are you telling topscore that they are wrong because you think the smooth ER actually makes the membranes? Campbell's 6th edition text (my text book) disagrees with you. Have you discovered something here worth a nobel prize? Your logic is not flowing here. You make the leap that because smooth er makes phospholipids, it must make the membrane too. I don't think this leap is established. We need to get SDN on force here to get Campell's text changed and convice some folks of this.

 

[iminnow]

Read this for a nobel prize:
http://fajerpc.magnet.fsu.edu/Education/2010/Lectures/13_Cell_Structure.htm
Here is a direct quote:
"Smooth ER

lipid factory

* Further away from the nucleus, ER is more tubular and bears no ribosomes.

* Its functions are (i) membrane synthesis and (ii) transport of secretory proteins from the lumen of ER to the outside of the cell.

* The ends of sER, containing proteins, bud off to form transport vesicles, which fuse with the plasma membrane or with the Golgi apparatus."

The website perhaps is not nobel prize material, but it certainly is a reference and opens the door for further discussion since there are text book references that support topscore and you have a single reference that presents somthing different. Depends upon your reference, peer reviewed, journal accepted, etc. Text books go through this rigorous review. You should send it to them. You can atleast argue the question may be not clear and consider making it more clear rather than saying it is wrong. Text book vs. a web link...interesting.... Perhaps someone else will beat you to it...there's a thought.... 😀

 

[iminnow]

iminnow, you are like them (if not them). You can't accept the truth. First, you say it's a discovery worth a nobel prize. Now, you say something else. The answer is wrong. It's that simple. Take a cell biology class. Study cell structures. Look at cells under microscope instead of being a spokeperson for other people. Have your own brain and don't rely on others 100%. I have argued enough with ScholawWare & TopScore. This is not their only mistake. I don't like character assassination and endless and pointless arguments. As a matter of principle, in a few days I'll report their false advertisement to
False advertising
FTC Bureau of Consumer Protection or regional office
National Advertising Division, Council of Better Business Bureaus

Now, you can cry with them.

If Jason and others @Scholarware (TopScore) are people of principle they should come to this thread with that ScholarWare ID to prove their point to the audience.

P.S. regarding the number of references: you have NOT told me about any source that says membrane synthesis is NOT one of the functions of SMOOTH ER. You seem to have fallen in love with rough ER only.

dat_student,

Take a dam chill pill. This just comes from my biology book which, looking at above posts,6th edition of Campbell, I see was already referenced that identifies membrane synthesis specifically as a function of the rough ER. I figure they have looked under more microscopes than you or me. But, I can't speak for you. That's a dam text book for goodness sake, not some wild ass link to one webpage. Where is your reference, in a text book or publication please, that says that it is. This is the way the science community ultimately works. If membrane synthesis is a primary function of the smooth ER, why the hell is that little fact left out of Campbell, and specifically mentioned under rough ER in the next paragraph??? Oh, I forgot, everyone knows this.

Frankly I could care less. I was just trying to help you out. Go to hell. You are the one all bothered about this. Go get a scientific reference that says smooth ER synthesizes membrane. If it's that obvious, as you say it is, it should be really simple, right? Yes...sure every text book should have it...well go fetch it boy. Give them to topscore if they bother you so much. You haven't provided a reference worth too much on SDN. At least I have a text book behind what I said. But, I don't care. You obviously do.
BTW, what he hell does all this have to do with false advertising? Does topscore advertise smooth ER doesn't make membranes? Quite deceptive..oh yes...considering your single URL. Oh, I see from your earlier post, you're all pissed because someone doesn't believe you yet...what you only gave them the URL? Was that your proof? I thought "everybody" knows this. Tell me it's not so. Oh my, how childish. Yea the FTC is really going to help you out...Grow up, and back off the insults. 👎

 

[SunnyD0119]

so just for the record....
can i get a list of smooth er functions??
haha
i knwo the basics but this thread is confusing me

 

[smarty]

Frankly I could care less. I was just trying to help you out. Go to hell.

iminnow, Thanks so much for trying to help us. DAT_STUDENT gave us his references. Which one of your references says that smooth er is not involved in membrane synthesis?! Please, back up your words.

 

[smarty]

Smarty, thanks, Here is the 4th reference:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...hesis"+rough+smooth+ER&hl=en&client=firefox-a

You don't need to thank me. I was serious. You have given us your references. I'd like to see which one of iminnow's references says that smooth er is not involved in membrane synthesis.

 

[iminnow]

I think iminnow disappeared because he couldn't find a source that says membrane synthesis is not a function of SMOOTH ER. I wonder why ScholarWare (TopScore) doesn't want to prove me wrong. ScholarWare, come on, prove that membrane synthesis is NOT a function of SMOOTH ER and that your solution is correct.

5th reference (from CALTECH) 😉
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...hesis"+rough+smooth+ER&hl=en&client=firefox-a
"IV. Organelles
A. Endoplasmic Reticulum
i. Rough and smooth, structure and functions: smooth is without ribosomes and involved in membrane synthesis, rough has ribosomes attached and is involved in protein synthesis..."

iminnow & scholarware: How many more references do you guys need? 😱

Dat_student,

Ok, don't go to hell. That wasn't nice. You started it with your insults and being nasty to me for no reason. I will be the bigger SDNer and apologize first. Your two references, they are the same. The are: 1) a class outline and 2) a test question from the same class, hardly scientific or published work.

Your other reference(s), which are NOT specific to smooth ER synthesizing membrane. However, you did gave us on line text book references which I did search (discussed later)

Second, I didn't disappear, I went to bed. Interesting that "smarty" has now mysteriously appeared on SDN, created a login in the nick of time between your posts. But…that's par for this on line place, I guess.

I only tried to help you with your quest and looking at this from what seems to be a debatable issue. The topscore question I think you are all bothered about talks about the primary functions of the smooth ER. If membrane synthesis was, in fact, a primary function, it should be easily referenced in lots of text books, AS IS the other choices in this particular test question.

With your text book references, of course there is very good discussion about ER, smooth ER, rough ER. As I look through it, I see that, in general, it supports the notion that the primary functions of the smooth ER are a) phospholipid synthesis, b. steroid synthesis, c. ex hormone synthesis, e. detoxification of drugs. This is pretty specific in these pages and searching the db.

Interesting, all of these items are specifically mentioned in your text book references. Membrane synthesis (which is choice D in topscore) is not mentioned specifically at all in the text book references. Rather, rough ER is mentioned and the primary function of membrane bound proteins transporting enzymes and lipids (lipids created by the smooth ER) to the membrane for synthesis is clearly discussed. This supports the other text book references.

So, I just don't agree with you, yet, that membrane synthesis is a primary role of the smooth ER. I can see that a primary role is production of lipids, even phospholipids, but all the texts indicate that apparently these specific components are later transported by proteins and the membrane synthesis is primarily handled by the rough ER producing the proteins for transport and building membranes. It is these proteins that imbed into membranes.

It seems that only the liver might be an exception, but this is for detox. The topscore question is not testing specific exceptions. It is testing, specifically, the "primary roles" of the smooth ER. I would be more concerned with not reading too much into a question and missing the question because you don't read it correctly as implied or stated. You can probably always find an exception. Science is not binary. May be you are trying to make it binary in this situation. I could see your point if the topscore question didn't say "primary" and the other choices were not so obvious…but I guess that is why test questions say "usually" or "mostly" because biology and chemistry is not black and white.

Again, my suggestion, if this bothers you so much, suggest that the question is tricky or possibly misleading because of your premise.

Smarty,
Here is that reference: http://www.beyondbooks.com/lif71/4d.asp

 

[smarty]

iminnow
Don't attack me. I was just trying to be a referee. I wanted to help.

It seems that only the liver might be an exception, but this is for detox. The topscore question is not testing specific exceptions.

TopScore Test 2 Question 5
Choice E) Detoxification of drugs

Do you think choice E is an exception and therefore is not a primary function? I thought all along you wanted to prove choice D (membrane synthesis) is not a primary function.

Smarty,
Here is that reference: http://www.beyondbooks.com/lif71/4d.asp

I went to the site. It doesn't say that smooth er is not involved in membrane synthesis.

 

[iminnow]

iminnow
Don't attack me. I was just trying to be a referee. I wanted to help.



TopScore Test 2 Question 5
Choice E) Detoxification of drugs

Do you think choice E is an exception and therefore is not a primary function? I thought all along you wanted to prove choice D (membrane synthesis) is not a primary function.



I went to the site. It doesn't say that smooth er is not involved in membrane synthesis.

The quote is "In a process that scientists still don't understand, the rough ER manufactures the membranes of the smooth ER." hmmm...

I will not likely find a statement that says "smooth ER doesn't produce membranes" any more than I would find a statement that says golgi doesn't produce ATP. The science community generally doesn't emphasize the "don't" of science. That's because it's often not that black and white and don't excludes too much. So I am not looking for that...(sorry to disapoint dat_student) It is not an argument worth spending time on. Although the above reference strongly indicates this. However, this too is a non published reference, generally. It has some good support behind it, but not something to say, yes, definitely so....

It is easier to find "do's" of functions of organelles. I am looking at dat_student's references that support the one "do" of smooth ER that is in question.

Some of the references, I simply discount because they are class lecture notes. I am looking at published works, journals, dbs, or text book references (which really consit of one he gave), everything else is unpublished and likely non scientific community reviewed. The context of the webpages and thoroughness of peer review (a necessary element not to be forgotten, is not readily apparent as other souces can provide). If the text book, or other journals or published work confirm this, I have no problems with it. No problem at all. This means that the current text books or journal references available to me contradict or simply do not include this function in other published research. The scholarware gives a published work as a reference of which I have. dat_student doesn't have this published work as a reference.

I don't know how I got wrapped up in all this. I could really give a #$%. No big deal. In fact, I have already made Scholarware, via email today, aware of this thread and some of these references. May be I'll get the $10 bucks.

That's about all I'm going to do on this one. I'll let you know what I find out with the published references.

 

[smarty]

Looks like everybody is happy and TopScore's answer is wrong

 

[iminnow]

Good luck. I believe, in the process of proving me wrong & defending ScholarWare, you said ScholarWare's answer is wrong however way you look at it (i.e. you said that detoxification is not a primary function because it is an exception). Detox was choice E.
Anyhow, I hope you get your 10 bucks for detox and I get my 10 bucks for membrane synthesis. I'll complain to FTC if they don't give me the reward for telling them their mistake.
TopScore has many more mistakes. There are many more chances for everyone
I hope that ScholarWare comes to this thread to prove its point...
I also hope to learn from ScholarWare about those PhDs who write their tests. They have NOT told me their names.

Good luck. I believe, in the process of proving me wrong & defending ScholarWare, you said ScholarWare's answer is wrong however way you look at it (i.e. you said that detoxification is not a primary function because it is an exception). Detox was choice E.
Anyhow, I hope you get your 10 bucks for detox and I get my 10 bucks for membrane synthesis. I'll complain to FTC if they don't give me the reward for telling them their mistake.
TopScore has many more mistakes. There are many more chances for everyone
I hope that ScholarWare comes to this thread to prove its point...
I also hope to learn from ScholarWare about those PhDs who write their tests. They have NOT told me their names.

No, detox is a primary role of smooth ER. You should know that. You are misintrepeting my paragraph. The contex of the paragraph is refering to membrane synthesis. In one of your references, the NIH db, I noted that there was a discussion about the smooth ER, liver and membrane synthesis role in that context. You should know that if you read through your references as I did.

All of the choices in the topscore pro question/answers are easily verifed except noting choice D. This is not specifically noted as a smooth ER function in the Campbell reference they give which is the 4th edition. I have 6th edition. Campbell is a major general biology text book and easily referenced. It is not specifically noted as a smooth ER fuction their either, rather, specifically noted as a rough ER fuction. I see the basis and validity of the question based on that. If you had the Campbell text, you would know that. I think, based on their text reference, the question is accurate.

The issue is that the Campbell text doesn't contain this information for whatever reason. Clearly there is some evidence to indicate membrane synthesis is part of the smooth ER, "primary" or secondary or whatever. If it is a "primary function" than the question needs to be corrected. The evidence, and validity of it, sources being considered too, I think is important. I have explained this in my submission to them. I have not heard back yet, but it was the weekend so I am waiting. I suspect I will hear soon. I am a current registed customer so they know who I am, etc.

 

[joooj86]

where can i get the DAT achiever from??
thanks

 

[iminnow]

smarty had this direct quote from you:



As I have said many times. This is not about campbell or my books. My books and my other references don't say membrane synthesis is the main function of rough er. You say that campbell doesn't say "membrane synthesis" is one of the functions of smooth er and doesn't reject that membrane synthesis can be one of the functions of smooth er. Again, just because a book doesn't mention a function it doesn't mean the function doesn't exist. Long before you submitted your concerns I had long discussions with ScholarWare. They also haven't given me any references that reject my claim. I have mentioned to ScholarWare that if they don't prove their point or if I don't hear back from them I'll file my complaint against them on Tuesday. This is not mainly about money. Some companies have offered me money to correct their mistakes and I have rejected their offers. Some strange ScholarWare fans have been nasty to me for the past several weeks and have attacked my character just because I've said some of TopScore's answers don't seem correct to me. So, as a matter of principle, I'll take whatever legal actions that are necessary to get my rewards for ScholarWare's mistakes (TopScore's mistakes). Be sure that I'll defend all of my rights via all necessary legal paths.

P.S. iminnow, I won't be surprised if I ever find out you are associated with scholarware and/or topscore. You very strongly just want to defend ScholarWare's answers. If you give an explanation that rejects ScholarWare's answer you come back to say I misread your argument.

You misquote me again dat_student. To use your argument, just because a book doesn't say it doesn't mean its so. I agree with you on that point. Books say different things that are not included in each other. You don't have Campbell. The sentence in Campbell specifically states that rough ER is a membrane factory. It does not use this term in the previous smooth ER discussion. All of the other TopScore Pro answers are specifically mentioned as primary roles of smooth ER. Choice D is not, yet specifically mentioned in the rough ER discussion and left out of the smooth ER discussion. I see where they get their question and answers, that it. Nothing more to misquote, please.

I think you are knocking TopScore Pro too much on this one. You have your opinion. Everyones got one! It's been a great product for me and helped me succeed on the DAT, as it has done the same for many many other folks on this forum.

Does all this mean that "the" primary function of the rought ER is membrane synthesis? I doubt this because of the protein factory is probably considered "the" primary function, although Campbell doesn't say that either. If you are objecting to their solution that says rough ER is "primarily" a membrane factory, well I can see your point because Campbell doesn't say that exactly either. May be they should have taken the previous sentence in the solution that speaks to its "protein" role and added it to the next sentence in the solution text. Then it would say it's "a membrane factory and protein factory". Or take out the word "primary" in their solution if that is misleading or implying something in error or that is not proven yet.

We'll whoppy due!

At the risk of you misquoting me or twisting stuff, good by on this topic.

best wishes to you in your pursuit to become a "dentist". Stick to the DDS/Ph.D side of the house looking at stuff in a dish and microscope. It probably does suit you best, that's not a bad thing, don't misunderstand me, these folks are needed too, somewhere.

 

[dat_student]

iminnow

ScholarWare and I have established a line of communication. The whole process will probably take sometime. These discussions will probably be beneficial for everyone. At least, after the discussions are over, the true functions of smooth and rough ERs will be revealed (at least to me). I hope that we can reach a definite conclusion before I take my DAT test.

 

[dat_student]

Hi everyone
I'd like to add more references to support my claim (i.e. PhDs and experts from various universities):

Reference #8
------------------
Biol 315 Principles of Microbiology
Dr. Tomasek, Spring 2004
http://www.csun.edu/~hcbio029/BIOL315/Chap4_EukStruct_Supp_F04.pdf#search='membrane%20synthesis%20smooth%20er'
Endiplasmic reticulum (ER)
Smooth ER - site of new membrane synthesis.

Reference #9
-----------------
Plant Cell Biology - Organelles - Bio 3510 Lec 02
http://www.cedarville.edu/academics/sciencemath/silvius/3510/02organelles.pdf#search='membrane%20synthesis%20smooth%20er'

D. Endoplasmic Reticulum (ER)
....
4. Smooth ER - synthesis of new membranes,
phospholipid and cell wall component


Reference #10
------------------
University of California - San Diego - Dr. Kerri
Massey
http://www-biology.ucsd.edu/classes/bggn224.FA03/Cell_Biology.ppt
The cell: an introduction
Smooth ER: cholestrol and membrane synthesis



Reference #11
---------------------
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~johnb/micro/medmicro/medmicro.2a.html
C. THE ENDOPLASMIC RETICULUM (THE ER)
...
The smooth ER is the site of lipid and membrane
synthesis.



Reference #12
----------------
http://oak.ucc.nau.edu/skw/BIO344/lecture2.pdf#search='membrane%20synthesis%20smooth%20er'
http://oak.ucc.nau.edu/skw/BIO344/lecture2.pdf
Endoplasmic Reticulum
Smooth ER
-Membrane synthesis
-Cholestrol metabolism
-Detoxification
-Ca++ storage
-Lipid and steroid synthesis



Reference #13
--------------------
http://users.tamuk.edu/kfcmg00/lecture_1.htm
TWO FUNCTIONS

ROUGH ER - SITE OF SOME PROTEIN SYNTHESIS

SMOOTH ER - SYNTHESIS OF PHOSPHOLIPIDS FOR
ASSEMBLY OF NEW MEMBRANES


Reference #14
------------------
http://www.geocities.com/xxazuraxx/animalcell_organellesmbser3.htm

The smooth ER contains enzymes that perform
specialized tasks such as lipid synthesis. This
synthesis can go form or repair golgi bodies,
lysosomes, the cell membrane, and it most often
repairs itself. It can also act as storage for
energy, carbohydrates, lipids, and other substances.
This variation of the ER can release calcium, package
proteins, transform bile pigments, break down
glycogen, and detoxification of several drugs and
poisons. Another function of the smooth ER is to
produce carbohydrates. It is also involved with
carbohydrate metabolism and calcium metabolism.

Reference #15:
----------------
http://www.biology.iupui.edu/biocourses/N100/2k3ch4cellsnotes.html
# B. Rough Endoplasmic Reticulum (rough ER) sorts and
modifies protein chains delivered by bound ribosomes
# C. Smooth Endoplasmic Reticulum (smooth ER) lacks
ribosomes. Site of lipid (membrane) synthesis


Reference #16:
-------------------
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~johnb/micro/m130/m130lect5.html
C. The endoplasmic reticulum (the ER)

See pictures on pgs. 100, 103, 104, 105, Tortora
et.al., 7th ed. Also note the golgi in these pictures.

The ER is a meshwork of membrane tubes or channels
throughout the cell. It is an industrial complex.

The smooth ER is the site of lipid and membrane
synthesis.

The rough ER is the site of synthesis of proteins
which are bound for export or for packaging within
membrane vessicles.

 

[dat_student]

Update:

I just received an email message from ScholarWare indicating that, in future versions, they will change the ER question and I will receive my reward for correcting their mistake.

CONCLUSION:
Smooth ER is involved in membrane synthesis

May this thread come to an end.
Amen 😉

 

[Bonkers29]

Update:

I just received an email message from ScholarWare indicating that, in future versions, they will change the ER question and I will receive my reward for correcting their mistake.

CONCLUSION:
Smooth ER is involved in membrane synthesis

May this thread come to an end.
Amen 😉

Wow, good job with that.. its like 10 bucks i think. awesome. when are you taking your DAT by the way? you seem very prepared already...

 

[dat_student]

Wow, good job with that.. its like 10 bucks i think. awesome. when are you taking your DAT by the way? you seem very prepared already...

Wasn't for money...so many things had happened and I wanted TopScore to accept its answer is wrong. Now, my opponents can stop attacking me via PMs.

I am not prepared at all. I am not motivated either. That's too bad. ouch ! Most likely, I'll do horrible 😉 . For now, I have scheduled it for Aug 8th but I've decided to take the test between Aug 8th and 10th.

 

[Bonkers29]

Wasn't for money...so many things had happened and I wanted TopScore to accept its answer is wrong. Now, my opponents can stop attacking me via PMs.

I am not prepared at all. I am not motivated either. That's too bad. ouch ! Most likely, I'll do horrible 😉 . For now, I have scheduled it for Aug 8th but I've decided to take the test between Aug 8th and 10th.

I knew it wasnt for money, hehe.. but its a bonus! I was just saying that as I only found out about the whole guarantee thing yesterday when I ordered TopScore. 😛

Hey I think thats about the same time I'm gonna take it also! I gotta take it before I go back to school. yikes. Anyways, good luck!!

 

[dat_student]

I knew it wasnt for money, hehe.. but its a bonus! I was just saying that as I only found out about the whole guarantee thing yesterday when I ordered TopScore. 😛

Hey I think thats about the same time I'm gonna take it also! I gotta take it before I go back to school. yikes. Anyways, good luck!!

Bonkers, thanks for good wishes. 🙂

I wish you the best of luck. happy studying ! 😉