dealing with backstabbing coworker pharmacist

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clarkbar

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There is a pseudo long term pharmacist in a small facility (a few full time pharmacists, with a few part-timers). The backstabber and his buddy work with me during the same hours.
The backstabber has been printing metrics daily, reviewing my work for errors and making repeated complaints to the manager. I'm new, have no one to ask questions of (I'm actually bothering the techs), and have no idea how to deal with this pharmacist. Managers have been quiet, but recently meetings have relayed complaints that I know are relating to me based on my knowledge of the backstabber's complaints.
My metric numbers are low, but it takes time to troubleshoot on what to do. The backstabber is complaining about my notes, lunch time choices. None of the other pharmacists are being targeted by they hate the backstabber. The manager is new.
I'm new in the pharmacist job market. I don't know how to deal with such a coworker. Should I complain to the manager and intimate others are also uncomfortable with his/her behavior? Should I confront the backstabber in private and ask what his/her issues are and to be more open and bring his complaints to me? (He/she is pretty unreasonable and is socially awkward.) Should I tell other coworkers and ask for their advice?

I really need help here. I was planning to do at least a year here for CV and reference reasons. I have more understanding of the metrics now and feel I can game them. However, systems and operations are very dysfunctional, and everyday is a new logistical challenge. It'll take months, like it did with older employees, to feel comfortable with these systems. After one of the older employees quits, I'll have no one to ask questions to, except the manager, which I feel is generally not what an employee should rely upon.
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as a pharmacist you just need to do your job correctly, which is filling prescriptions, and filing regulatory paperwork. metrics and everything else are the business aspects that can get you fire. however, it is wrongful termination. a lawsuit will allow you to win big money. money that you cannot save. money that you can only dream of. document what you believe is important or necessary to prepare for court. i also have to deal with a backstabber pharmacist. but that two-face b:tch is more of a nuisance, rather than any threat.
 
sosoo said:
as a pharmacist you just need to do your job correctly, which is filling prescriptions, and filing regulatory paperwork. metrics and everything else are the business aspects that can get you fire. however, it is wrongful termination. a lawsuit will allow you to win big money. money that you cannot save. money that you can only dream of. document what you believe is important or necessary to prepare for court. i also have to deal with a backstabber pharmacist. but that two-face b:tch is more of a nuisance, rather than any threat.
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Doesn't work that way. You are dealing with an emotional vampire/toxic employee.

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-Revised-Expanded/

If the manager can get decent documentation on your failures, regardless of the source, it's sustainable. Absolutely don't give the manager that ammunition.

Here's my take. Don't consider the backstabber rational. For whatever reason, this person has it out for you. So, your options are (and I'd take multiple):

1. Fight back with fire: If the backstabber has enough time to monitor you, that backstabber is unusually efficient (probably not) or has crap metrics yourself. Save those and communicate privately as necessary.
2. Be the nicest guy/gal you can be. Buy lunch, observe birthdays, become the chirpiest, most pleasant person to the point of sugar overdose. People who eat together turn out to not screw people who feed them. Invite the backstabber, although you know this person hates you, it's about you, not it.
3. (related to 2) Start making friends across the departments, particularly with nursing.
4. Work on your practice. Even if you are bad metricwise, stop making identifiable mistakes. Perfection is a series of trifles, but avoiding mistakes avoids having a Kick Me target on yourself.
5. NEVER be alone with backstabber and NEVER publically bash anyone: (I actually give this advice in general.)
6. Pass every hard case onto the backstabber.
7. Start looking elsewhere, you might be out of time already. Hospital environments have that tendency to have the toxic employee that screws it up for everyone.
 
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In my experience everyone knows who the toxic employee is and no one takes them seriously. I would ignore that person completely and just focus on making my work as good as it can be. If your boss has an issue with your performance he will take it up with you. If you are so worried about it ask your boss if your performance is on track or if you need additional guidance. Whatever you do, do not gossip about this person or with this person. Just focus on your work while being outwardly friendly.
 
Same thing happened to me my first job. I had these two idiots tracking my mistakes and giving them to my boss. They had a history of doing this. I have no idea why, but I was their favorite target. It also cemented my stance on never setting foot in a hospital pharmacy ever again. Retail doesn't seem to attract these people.
 
It turns out that backstabber has access to the metric reports, even though no one, but management, knows how to access it. I think the managers are not approaching me because I am new and learning the ropes.
I decided against approaching the managers about it due to it not being against company rules for rphs' to have access to the metrics.

Instead, I approached the backstabber, asked what was wrong, and how I could assist him/her. He/she said I didn't do many non-DUR, verification things. I'm not really sure what else there is to do; but he/she told me I should know even though I am new. (I work in a facility with severe logistical and multi-modal issues beyond pharmacy, and we are supposed to be "cross able" with all other roles in the pharmacy.) I told him/her to approach me with his concerns, which would be more productive than approaching the boss/managers. I did mention others in the pharmacy were upset with his/her use of metrics, but it didn't phase him/her.

In the meantime, I am approaching others in the pharmacy, but other than the manager and techs, there really aren't many other to query. I am gaming metrics and learning other facets of pharmacy by watching youtube videos and rxprep. I feel the backstabber is more of the socially awkward type that identifies self-worth with the company, as opposed to someone that has an agenda to replace me?
 
from personal experience, a district supervisor fired a cvs staff pharmacist over metrics. he filed a lawsuit and won. he then has enough money to own n operate his own pharmacy. ....similar thing happened at Walmart i believe. metrics is never an issue.
 
Honestly, with anti-social introverts, the best way of dealing with them is leveraging the anxiety that is inherent in that personality type.

Lord999 offered 10/10 advice. Like they said, you can either be a source of relief from anxiety or a source of intense anxiety.
Either way you'll throw them off of your tail.
 
Metrics are clear and objective data, like being on time to work. Why would anyone employer be sued if a pharmacist had low metrics? No different from a doctor with low rvu...
 
GroverPsychMD said:
Your coworker may be left with more work if your metrics are low. Maybe he wants a more productive worker in place
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maybe he's just a creep.....sadly, pharmacy is full of them. Everyone was new once. But now with competition for jobs, corporations setting up ridiculous metrics, insecure people feeling the need to make the other guy look bad, lack of basic human decency.
OP, hope things work out....only advice is to document everything you do, hopefully try to find a sympathetic worker to help, document all your efforts to learn the system, consider outside counseling just to vent. They did hire you, so you have the right to be taught the system and not be made to feel like asking for help is bothering people.
 
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Should I approach the manager with information that he is accessing the metrics? Traditionally that is something only management would do. If so, how should I portray it?
 
clarkbar said:
Should I approach the manager with information that he is accessing the metrics? Traditionally that is something only management would do. If so, how should I portray it?
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When I went thru similar issue, in my situation it was not helpful. If the "problem child" you have to deal with is a backstabber, I would be leary of essentially tattling on him. If you are very new, sometimes you need to learn the politics and personalities. Most places I've been are various forms of dysfunctional families: you need to observe how things play out. This sucks; you just want to do your job, but sounds like "jealous sibling" doesn't want you to get any attention. I really think an outsider opinion with someone who deals in "workplace family dynamics" could help you sort things out. I avoid onsite advisors until you feel more secure in your job.
 
OP...why did you not follow Lord999's advice? His advice was excellent! I suggest you read it again and follow it.

Name, the backstabber is irrational. You should never have talked to him trying to find out his problem....not that he knows he has "got to you", he will be even more viscous. Don't talk to him alone under any circumstances. When you do talk to him, be super-super-sugar sweet and only communicate about whatever you have to communicate with him about to get the task that you are working on completed. NEVER talk to a backstabber about other employees...what the backstabber may do now is go up to those employees and confront them, those employees will then be mad at you for being a tattletale. NEVER talk to the backstabber again about your metrics--it is none of the backstabbers business, which is why he didn't come to you directly. Only talk to management about your metrics.

I would NOT talk to the managers about the backstabber at ALL. If the manager has concerns with you then address those concerns. Leave the backstabber out of it--undoubtedly management already knows the backstabber has access to metrics and they obviously don't have a problem with it. Unless the backstabber is lying about you, it really doesn't matter that they are going to the manager all the time, because obviously management doesn't have a problem with that, or they would tell the backstabber to stop.

So STOP doing whatever you think is rational, you are NOT dealing with a rational person, and you may not even be in a rational workplace. Follow Lord999's advice to the T. Do NOT talk to the backstabber about anything except immediately worktask issues (or asking him what he wants for lunch when you are buying.)

Good luck and I hope you can stick it out. But if not, look for another job, the backstabber has been their longer than you, and there is nothing you can do to change him or the workplace environment.
 
are you sure they hate the back stabber?

Just focus on what you can do before all the politics... you said he/she had issues with your notes and your lunch schedules... what is it about your notes that he hates? did you look at other pharmacists notes? is yours as detailed?

when are you taking your lunches? do you take them during the busiest hours? do you take them few minutes after your other breaks?

try to improve on everything you can, know everything that is going on in the pharmacy. if you are proactive, it shouldn't take you that long... if the back stabber still has a problem with you after that, then you have the ammunition to come at him
 
I'm recording my interventions. I'm also recording his/her reviewing of my orders and getting it wrong. He/she has made assumptions about them that have been wrong However, I don't really know what to do with this information.
I am starting to have a relationship, about 1/1.5 wks of mild banter and operations comments (positive) with the manager.
I will mention, if asked, who i should ask questions of. then mention the backstabber is unavailable. i am going to ask about details with the metrics.

What say you, folks?
 
clarkbar said:
I'm recording my interventions. I'm also recording his/her reviewing of my orders and getting it wrong. He/she has made assumptions about them that have been wrong However, I don't really know what to do with this information.
I am starting to have a relationship, about 1/1.5 wks of mild banter and operations comments (positive) with the manager.
I will mention, if asked, who i should ask questions of. then mention the backstabber is unavailable. i am going to ask about details with the metrics.

What say you, folks?
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I would keep these records. Anytime they claim you made a mistake but you feel you were clinically justified, keep a note of it. Write down which doctor you spoke to, what you said, and what the decision was. If you have spare time feel free to peruse their records as well. No one is perfect, and plenty of good pharmacists make mistakes. Get tired, let things slip. Whatever. Keep this to yourself. If you are a decent pharmacist and have a good relationship with your pharmacy, nursing, and medical staff then you may never have a problem. However, if it ever gets to the point where your director is threatening your job.. bring up what you have. I would never instigate with this information, but it can't hurt to have a defense prepared.
 
If you don't plan on being there for more than a year anyways I would just be nice to them, ignore their lunacy, and only talk about it with the manager if they are the one bringing it up. Just focus on learning the job and be nice to everyone. Getting involved in office politics like this is usually self-destructive, since the manager is new it may come across the wrong way. Maybe try thanking them when they point out something that they don't like and talk about casual non-work related topics. Maybe they will change their tune, if not just give up on it and shut them out.
 
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ldiot said:
If you don't plan on being there for more than a year anyways I would just be nice to them, ignore their lunacy, and only talk about it with the manager if they are the one bringing it up. Just focus on learning the job and be nice to everyone. Getting involved in office politics like this is usually self-destructive, since the manager is new it may come across the wrong way. Maybe try thanking them when they point out something that they don't like and talk about casual non-work related topics. Maybe they will change their tune, if not just give up on it and shut them out.
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I was ignoring him/her and asking others for help on how systems work. It seemed to get better, but I had to work with him/her alone recently during the night, when I have no idea how to handle such things. He/she got angry when I was slow with compounding and told me to stop. I did other work until I ran out of it. When asked if there was anything else I could do he/she belittled me in front of the techs and threatened me.
I have a meeting with the boss Monday. Should I include him/her? He/she has routinely had negative private meetings with the boss to smear me. If I ask for help on how to do a task, he/she smolders and refuses to answer and then criticizes me to the boss.
Additionally everyone that knows the system is quitting, leaving this clown left. The only alternative is to ask the female assistant manager for help, but she goes home at 5, hours before the systems start accumulating failures to troubleshoot. Is it reasonable to ask to call them at their house? We have everyone's numbers, but no one wants to be called at home.
 
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Well, besides the "you really need to avoid working with this person whenever possible", you probably now are on a clock to leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily, you or that person. You need to start looking.

In the interim, you probably need to have private meeting a with management in front of QM and discuss that you do not have Dr. Backstabber's confidence as a practitioner for reasons that if the management agree with them, you're willing to work with them. But you should not be scheduled with just the two of you on duty alone as mistrust between two practitioners will lead to a hostile work environment.

clarkbar said:
Should I include him/her? He/she has routinely had negative private meetings with the boss to smear me. If I ask for help on how to do a task, he/she smolders and refuses to answer and then criticizes me to the boss.
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No, just no. This is and always will be about you unless you change the framing of the conversation. In other words, why are you so willing to participate in your own abuse? You are a practitioner like anyone else, you don't owe an explanation beyond clinical or technical (factual) justification to your colleagues over decisions that you sign off on. You do owe a motive (emotional and context judgment) explanation to your superiors, but if the superiors don't raise that with you, then that's not what should be on the table. What should be on the table is that you have a hostile, unhelpful co-worker that you would like to call colleague but for the incidents you said above. You're trying to be the best pharmacist you can, but until I get management acknowledgement that there are things that I need to work on, I'm proceeding as if I am doing the competent work that I believe in myself doing every day. However, it does not help that Dr. Backstabber publicly castigates me (which is not only downright unprofessional, but hostile work environment atmosphere in the making).

Again, they tell you this as a student, and professors and supervisors go to training about appropriate feedback and risk management for performance improvement plans specifically as there is a right way and a wrong way to bring this up. With Dr. Backstabber bringing the issues up the wrong way (AND WITH WITNESSES), even if you are doing something wrong but not imminently harmful, Dr. Backstabber is destroying the productive work environment.

Why don't you start there?

This is not to say at all that you don't have practice issues that you need to work on (I still have practice issues that I have to work on), but there is corporate correct way to do these things and that isn't being observed from the POV that we read. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist (I'm merely a pharmacist), but I would say that you could definitely do with some self-help or professional help/work coaching in terms of understanding power and coercive control issues in abusive relationships and breaking the chain. Heard of Snakes in Suits? You should if you haven't.

Amazon product ASIN 0061147893
 
lord999 said:
Well, besides the "you really need to avoid working with this person whenever possible", you probably now are on a clock to leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily, you or that person. You need to start looking.

In the interim, you probably need to have private meeting a with management in front of QM and discuss that you do not have Dr. Backstabber's confidence as a practitioner for reasons that if the management agree with them, you're willing to work with them. But you should not be scheduled with just the two of you on duty alone as mistrust between two practitioners will lead to a hostile work environment.



No, just no. This is and always will be about you unless you change the framing of the conversation. In other words, why are you so willing to participate in your own abuse? You are a practitioner like anyone else, you don't owe an explanation beyond clinical or technical (factual) justification to your colleagues over decisions that you sign off on. You do owe a motive (emotional and context judgment) explanation to your superiors, but if the superiors don't raise that with you, then that's not what should be on the table. What should be on the table is that you have a hostile, unhelpful co-worker that you would like to call colleague but for the incidents you said above. You're trying to be the best pharmacist you can, but until I get management acknowledgement that there are things that I need to work on, I'm proceeding as if I am doing the competent work that I believe in myself doing every day. However, it does not help that Dr. Backstabber publicly castigates me (which is not only downright unprofessional, but hostile work environment atmosphere in the making).

Again, they tell you this as a student, and professors and supervisors go to training about appropriate feedback and risk management for performance improvement plans specifically as there is a right way and a wrong way to bring this up. With Dr. Backstabber bringing the issues up the wrong way (AND WITH WITNESSES), even if you are doing something wrong but not imminently harmful, Dr. Backstabber is destroying the productive work environment.

Why don't you start there?

This is not to say at all that you don't have practice issues that you need to work on (I still have practice issues that I have to work on), but there is corporate correct way to do these things and that isn't being observed from the POV that we read. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist (I'm merely a pharmacist), but I would say that you could definitely do with some self-help or professional help/work coaching in terms of understanding power and coercive control issues in abusive relationships and breaking the chain. Heard of Snakes in Suits? You should if you haven't.

Amazon product ASIN 0061147893
Click to expand...

I ambushed the boss the first thing in the morning. I mentioned the event and the abuse in general and the boss said some rumors were circulating. The boss mentioned that there were other complaints about the backstabber from techs to pharmacists. I relayed lord999's advice. The backstabber has had some compa
lord999 said:
Well, besides the "you really need to avoid working with this person whenever possible", you probably now are on a clock to leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily, you or that person. You need to start looking.

In the interim, you probably need to have private meeting a with management in front of QM and discuss that you do not have Dr. Backstabber's confidence as a practitioner for reasons that if the management agree with them, you're willing to work with them. But you should not be scheduled with just the two of you on duty alone as mistrust between two practitioners will lead to a hostile work environment.



No, just no. This is and always will be about you unless you change the framing of the conversation. In other words, why are you so willing to participate in your own abuse? You are a practitioner like anyone else, you don't owe an explanation beyond clinical or technical (factual) justification to your colleagues over decisions that you sign off on. You do owe a motive (emotional and context judgment) explanation to your superiors, but if the superiors don't raise that with you, then that's not what should be on the table. What should be on the table is that you have a hostile, unhelpful co-worker that you would like to call colleague but for the incidents you said above. You're trying to be the best pharmacist you can, but until I get management acknowledgement that there are things that I need to work on, I'm proceeding as if I am doing the competent work that I believe in myself doing every day. However, it does not help that Dr. Backstabber publicly castigates me (which is not only downright unprofessional, but hostile work environment atmosphere in the making).

Again, they tell you this as a student, and professors and supervisors go to training about appropriate feedback and risk management for performance improvement plans specifically as there is a right way and a wrong way to bring this up. With Dr. Backstabber bringing the issues up the wrong way (AND WITH WITNESSES), even if you are doing something wrong but not imminently harmful, Dr. Backstabber is destroying the productive work environment.

Why don't you start there?

This is not to say at all that you don't have practice issues that you need to work on (I still have practice issues that I have to work on), but there is corporate correct way to do these things and that isn't being observed from the POV that we read. I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist (I'm merely a pharmacist), but I would say that you could definitely do with some self-help or professional help/work coaching in terms of understanding power and coercive control issues in abusive relationships and breaking the chain. Heard of Snakes in Suits? You should if you haven't.



Amazon product ASIN 0061147893
Click to expand...




I ambushed the boss the first thing in the morning. I mentioned the event and the abuse in general and the boss said some rumors were circulating. The boss mentioned that there were other complaints about the backstabber from techs to pharmacists. I relayed lord999's advice. The backstabber has had some complaints put in his/her file in the past and another one was put in.
I feel I could have pushed it further, given the horrible nature of the transgresion, but did not, as I thought it might backfire on me from the boss's perspective, and I would feel bad if someone was fired. I just want the abuse to stop. Another pharmacist is urging me to go to HR. However, isn't that a no-no, as the boss might retaliate? This is my first gig and I'm hoping for a reference.
Oddly enough, I don't think the boss approached the backstabber. He/she found out by a rumor from one of the techs, at which point he met with bosse to ask what happened, at which point the boss told him/her that people are afraid to ask him questions or approach him, I gather. He/she has been demoralized since that meeting because the backstabber fancied him/herself as the star worker at the pharmacy. However, I worry that it may be only a respite.

Should I heed the pharmacist advice and go to HR? I feel I may be being used if I do so, and I did not intimate that that is what I wanted during my meeting this week with the boss. Thank you for your support.

P.S. the bosses like the backstabber because of his metrics. The bosses are pretty hands off bosses. I don't know if its because of employee retention issues or they like the backstabber.
 
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Ok, let's add this together:

Working Knowledge:
1. Oddly enough, I don't think the boss approached the backstabber. (Possibly wrong, but you think you're right).
2. The backstabber has had some complaints put in his/her file in the past and another one was put in.
3. I feel I could have pushed it further, given the horrible nature of the transgresion, but did not, as I thought it might backfire on me from the boss's perspective, and I would feel bad if someone was fired.
4. Another pharmacist is urging me to go to HR. However, isn't that a no-no, as the boss might retaliate? This is my first gig and I'm hoping for a reference.
5. From the above posts, you are junior to most of the other staff.

Here's an interpretation though remember we only know what you wrote:
1. and 2. This place practices passive-aggressive management and really won't respond unless it's an obvious problem. If this person has enough complaints and still obviously is acting like this, Dr. Backstabber is good enough to get action but bad enough to drive y'all crazy.

3 and 4. Why won't the pharmacist do that himself/herself? I think that they came to the same conclusions as 1 and 2, and figure that they need a literal scapegoat to be sacrificed in you to do the right thing. You obviously are not going for the eliminate threat option (3) as I wouldn't lose any sleep over firing a lawsuit threat to my management (I've had to survive two union actions and have been successful at terminating a pharmacist under 12b rules in the civil service, so I know how hard it is to do it.) Whoever gave you that suggestion *probably* is not looking out for you collegially to be indirect.

5. Remember that everyone else apparently has more experience with this Dr. Backstabber than you and possibly you have camaraderie with Dr. Backstabber's other victims. That's "good", it gives you all a point to all agree about. Work on building good relations and laugh at Dr. Backstabber behind his/her back AWAY FROM THE HOSPITAL!

Decision Analysis of 1-5:
I think your instincts are sound, you should try to get out with your license and reputation intact. You are in a no-win practice situation with a toxic employee on one hand and an arguably permissive management to hostile work culture on the other. At work, continue to use the opportunity to learn and experiment and get better with your practice. Start looking and try to keep at least a good reference (though due to 1 and 2, I doubt the management would have the balls to give a bad recommendation as there's all sorts of Weingarten issues around negative recommendations that are not substantiated by official action). Work on your CV, continue to build bridges with everyone else, and leave the sinking ship knowing that you know what to look for in management.
 
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