Dealing with debt

[ATrim7]

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I am starting the Georgetown Post-Bac Certificate Program this summer and have been dealing with all of the fears that Non-trads typically develop. One of my greatest fears is the financial debt I will accrue during this journey.

I am already dealing with $35,000 in debt from undergrad and two years of loans at G-Town will set me back another $70,000. So, before I even begin med school I will be in for about $100,000. I come from a middle class family that would love to help me, but they just simply cannot afford to.

The bottom line is, I think that when my schooling is over I will have accrued around $250,000 to $300,000 in debt. I am not becoming a doctor to be rich, and I truly want to follow this path regardless of how much financial burden I put on myself. But is it really possible to enjoy life and start a family when I will finish school so far in the "red".

Does anyone have these same fears or has anyone been in this position?

 

[blee]

Hey, a fellow Georgetown PBPM student. 🙂

I graduated from college with $24k or so of student loans, which I managed to lower to about $17k by the time I quit my job. However, I took out another $30k or so to cover my post-bacc year. ATrim, unless you're taking four classes a semester for those two years, you shouldn't accrue $70k of student loans. You'll be paying the going rate of about $1000/credit, so unless you're borrowing to pay for living expenses you should not end up with that much debt.

Anyway, I'm still looking at another $160k - $250k of expenses for four years of med school. I'm married and we have a four-month-old. The debt is going to hurt a lot, but it's the cost of pursuing my dream. I don't really see a way around it, and in the end it's "only money." Money can be paid back, and most doctors who specialize will have no problems paying down their debts if they live CAREFULLY after residency/fellowship. On the flip side, there's no way I could've lived with myself had I just given up on medicine because of the cost.

 

[rgerwin]

Agreed. I will have 27K in credit cards/undergrad loans, but my better half will have about 80K, plus he may go to grad school (another 20K at least). So, that's about $130K before we get rolling onto med school. The thing is, you may not be able to become a GP or FP, which is an increasing problem in this country, but as a specialty you should be able to a)pay off your loans in a reasonable amount of time after residency/fellowship, and b)maybe be able to save more, in the end, than you would have do something else that paid much less but at an earlier age. My plan is to at least pay the interest post-graduate, so they don't get bigger, and forget about the rest.

 

[driver]

Don't mean to hi-jack this thread...but I just finished posting a related thread. I'm in the same boat....in the post bacc phase, and thinking about quitting work to finish up the pre req's. I agree that 70k seems a little high....but, how much then? for the post bacc route....and from where? Private lenders?...i've recently encountered that federal aid is almost non existent for certificate/non degree programs(?).....any advice would be helpful....
thank you thank you thank you

 

[njbmd]

I am starting the Georgetown Post-Bac Certificate Program this summer and have been dealing with all of the fears that Non-trads typically develop. One of my greatest fears is the financial debt I will accrue during this journey.

I am already dealing with $35,000 in debt from undergrad and two years of loans at G-Town will set me back another $70,000. So, before I even begin med school I will be in for about $100,000. I come from a middle class family that would love to help me, but they just simply cannot afford to.

The bottom line is, I think that when my schooling is over I will have accrued around $250,000 to $300,000 in debt. I am not becoming a doctor to be rich, and I truly want to follow this path regardless of how much financial burden I put on myself. But is it really possible to enjoy life and start a family when I will finish school so far in the "red".

Does anyone have these same fears or has anyone been in this position?

Hi there,
Just a couple of things to consider: If you join some practices after residency, they will pay a huge portion of your debt. As I am coming up on finishing my residency, a couple of places have offered to pay $175K of my debt if I give them 3 years and do their vascular surgery. (Not a bad deal since I owe $40K).

Another thing to look at is military. Yes, you may find yourself having to fight for your country but you can get some debt relief by doing this. My cousin had a Navy scholarship, served four years and is now happily debt-free practicing anesthesia.

The same is true for doing primary care in an underserved area especially geriatrics. There are Health Service Corps Scholarships if you are willing to work with an underserved population in primary care. You have to give year for year but you get some of your debt paid off.

If you study hard and do well in medical school, there are scholarships. It's very hard work but it makes your debt load much less and every little bit helps. Alumni also provide scholarship assistance for students who do well; I recieived a $3K paid fellowship the summer between my second and third year by being the top scoring student in pathology at my school. Look into these things and fill out application forms. My financial aid office knew me very well. Get to know them and read all of those little flyers on the bulletin boards.

njbmd 🙂

 

[gatheringhoney]

As someone with 40K in debt as a result of two degrees in the arts, I encountered these same fears as I made the decision to return to school to fulfill prereqs for pharm school. I'm not sure if it is true that federal funding is not available for non-degree-certificate programs, but I do know that each individual has a maximum amount of federal funding available to him/her for undergraduate credit. The same is true for grad credit. I had reached that undergraduate cap and as I was unable to declare a major (because of too many undergrad credits, none of which would apply toward a science major), I was ineligible for all general scholarships/grants offered by my school as well as most private scholarship sources. In the end, I was able to receive a small amount of aid via a College of Continuing Education Scholarship. My only other option was a private loan, and while it seemed insane to borrow funds to live off of, it was the sacrifice I made in order to accomplish my goals.

My advice to you is this: check with your particular program for scholarships for non-trad students. If your school has a College of Continuing Education, research the financial aid assistance they may offer....a lot of CCE's have their own Development Offices separate from the main institution and thus have a different set of donors contributing to a separate scholarship pool. In terms of private loans, most have a limit to the amount awarded to students not enrolled in a certificate or non-degree program, but you can work the system and apply for multiple loans with different banks.

Speaking as someone who quit a well-paying job and made the plunge a year and a half ago into significant debt just to finish prereqs, I believe the investment/commitment is worth it. As I was beginning the process, it seemed very risky to accrue such significant debt, but I now see the fruits of my labor, and I see a light at the end of the tunnel. That was incredibly hard for me to visualize as I was signing my promissory note, but in four years, not only will I be working in a profession I love, I will have the means to repay my debt.

 

[thirdunity]

Hi there,

The same is true for doing primary care in an underserved area especially geriatrics. There are Health Service Corps Scholarships if you are willing to work with an underserved population in primary care. You have to give year for year but you get some of your debt paid off.

And if you're a queer religious minority, of course, you might think twice about this. I'll never do it.

 

[Beau Geste]

And if you're a queer religious minority, of course, you might think twice about this. I'll never do it.

😕

 

[NY Musicologist]

Debt is the single greatest stumbling block in my ongoing internal debate about whether or not to commit to medicine as a second career. On the one hand, I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who commented that money is only as good as what you do with it, and there's no investment more "rewarding" (in multiple senses) than education. I have no intention ever to live large, or to retire voluntarily from a job I love before declining health/stamina forces me to do so. Thus, if I had only myself to consider, I'd take on the debt burden and the decade of training (postbacc! med school! residency!) confident that I would make ends meet in the end.

On the other hand, I'm not alone. I'm single now, but hope for a spouse and children before too many more years go by. My parents are healthy now, but that's bound to change eventually. My personal dilemma--and I DON'T mean to imply that it should be everyone's--is this: is it right for me to plunge not only myself, but my husband as well, into debt so I can follow a dream? To reduce my ability to help my children get a great FIRST college education so I can have, in essence, a SECOND one? To be unable to support my parents in their last years when they sacrificed for my early ones? NJB mentioned the military and the underserved-areas debt-reduction programs, which again I'd happily consider if single but have to weigh more carefully in the context of my relationships--fair, again, to drag my husband around the globe as a military spouse, or to take him off his big-city career track so I can practice in the middle of nowhere?

I guess my advice, in a nutshell, is to assess debt not simply in terms of numbers, but of potential impact on human relationships and personal values. If you can make it all come out on the positive side of the balance sheet, more power to you. I'm just not sure yet whether I can! 🙁

Best wishes to all,
NYM 🙂

 

[blee]

I was married when I quit my job, and we are now parents of a four-month-old. I've spent some time thinking about this, as similar issues are shaping my choice of where to matriculate this fall (still not finally decided).

My wife and daughter are, of course, of utmost importance in my life. My wife, whom I've known for nearly ten years now, makes me a whole person -- she is my complement and my supplement. I love her in a way that makes me do things for her that I would never expect anyone to do for me. I'm sure others can relate to this sort of feeling. After ten years, our relationship is not quite the giddy and heady sort of thing it was when we had first met, but it's much deeper and we've both invested heavily in it.

That said, I am not defined by my wife or the rest of my family. I define myself. I am incredibly fortunate to have found an ideal teammate and partner, but the best wife in the world would never fill the kind of emtpiness that comes from being unfulfilled by oneself. To that end, I've discovered that medicine pulls me with a strength not unlike that of true love. It isn't love, not in the romantic sense, but I am drawn to it like I am to my loved ones. I believe I have found myself in this profession, and I am willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to prosper in it.

To make a long story short: If you are serious about becoming a physician, and you have no way to pay for it out-of-pocket, apply for loans. You will not doom your financial future if you're careful. More importantly, if you never even give yourself a chance to make your dreams come true, you are almost guaranteed a bitter life. What good is a bitter spouse or parent to anyone?

You can see where conflict might arise, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's felt it. How to be true to oneself while remaining an honorable partner? In my case, I think the end result is going to require a little bit of compromise on both sides. That's almost always the way it is, but you can do this in a way that preserves your goals.

 

[cosmicstarr]

As nontrads, it may sometimes seem like a struggle to justify the enormous debt. Some of us are contemplating leaving fairly well-paying careers to pursue this dream. People have previously mentioned that with the high debt, one may not be able to pursue family practice or general medicine. It’s a sad state when one cannot pursue this career path because of cost. But I suppose that is the reality of the skyrocketing cost of medical education. Furthermore, what if one cannot get into a high-paying specialty? I am sure many medical student would like to get into derm, plastics, etc, but may not have high enough board scores or grades. FP or IM may be the only choices! What happens then when you have to pursue this career path with over $300k in debt???

I agree with the poster above that one should carefully consider the impact on family and relationships. There will definitely be a lot of sacrifices and the gratification is very delayed.

 

[thirdunity]

😕

Regarding being queer and a religious minority: it tends to predispose one toward not wanting to live in "underserved rural areas".

 

[thirdunity]

NJB mentioned the military and the underserved-areas debt-reduction programs, which again I'd happily consider if single but have to weigh more carefully in the context of my relationships--fair, again, to drag my husband around the globe as a military spouse, or to take him off his big-city career track so I can practice in the middle of nowhere?

You're planning for a relationship you're not even in yet. 😱

It's not fair for you to drag your husband around, but on the other hand, it's not fair for HIM to expect the same of YOU. This goes to show... relationships are NOT FAIR! Let's throw out this whole idea of "fair".

Sometimes we can't meet each other half way, so we trade off. Relationships aren't 50% each person's responsibility, they're 100% each person's. Learned that from being married.

And besides you can't plan out every little aspect of your life. People keep telling ME this and damn it, I think it's good advice. You may find yourself having a husband who follows you. Or a husband who himself walks beside you. Or a husband who is willing to make tradeoffs. Or heck, a long-term boyfriend or series of boyfriends until you are settled enough to have a husband. You never really know what life is going to bring, and it's best not to fret too much about it.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I'm in the same boat. I have undergrad loans, MBA loans, and now post-bacc loans. My husband is a 3rd year so we're living off loans. (Thank god for cheaper COL in the midwest though!)

I have often thought, do I really want to be in $80K before I even get to med school? I'm rapidly approaching that mark - wait, I may have already passed it so that means I'm working on 100K. I'm hoping to get in to a cheap state school but things don't always work out as you wish them too. The jump to paying $35K a year just in tuition is a little scary. Granted, I will have my husband in residency to help support us, but still. It is overwhelming.
Its my debt and for financial reasons I will not have him cosign any loans for medical school or post-bacc (I'm might have to have him help me with post-bacc once he starts working because I'm working all on private loans).

I do say that I understand where you are coming from and although financially it is overwhelming to think of it in terms of money. There are people that come out with just that much in debt and manage.
But I have my sense of direction

 

[NY Musicologist]

You're planning for a relationship you're not even in yet. 😱

[snip]... relationships are NOT FAIR! Let's throw out this whole idea of "fair".

[snip]
And besides you can't plan out every little aspect of your life. People keep telling ME this and damn it, I think it's good advice. You may find yourself having a husband who follows you. Or a husband who himself walks beside you. Or a husband who is willing to make tradeoffs. Or heck, a long-term boyfriend or series of boyfriends until you are settled enough to have a husband. You never really know what life is going to bring, and it's best not to fret too much about it.

Point well taken, thirdunity. I suppose I do tend to spend more energy "planning" life than actually living it, and as long as I AM still single I'll be better off following my own best path. 😳

But for the OP and others, I think my original point holds true: if you've got 'em, factor spouses, kids, and parents into the balance sheet when determining how much debt you can comfortably handle (financially as well as emotionally).

 

[sasevan]

Regarding being queer and a religious minority: it tends to predispose one toward not wanting to live in "underserved rural areas".

The Nat'l Health Services Corp considers underserved areas not just rural ones but also urban ones such as the inner city.
Also, in some places the rural area is not far from the urban core, e.g., I know of an ob/gyn in the NHSC who is working in Florida City, a pretty rural area in Miami-Dade County, but one that is only about an hour away from downtown Miami and SoBe.

 

[willint]

I was married when I quit my job, and we are now parents of a four-month-old. I've spent some time thinking about this, as similar issues are shaping my choice of where to matriculate this fall (still not finally decided).

My wife and daughter are, of course, of utmost importance in my life. My wife, whom I've known for nearly ten years now, makes me a whole person -- she is my complement and my supplement. I love her in a way that makes me do things for her that I would never expect anyone to do for me. I'm sure others can relate to this sort of feeling. After ten years, our relationship is not quite the giddy and heady sort of thing it was when we had first met, but it's much deeper and we've both invested heavily in it.

That said, I am not defined by my wife or the rest of my family. I define myself. I am incredibly fortunate to have found an ideal teammate and partner, but the best wife in the world would never fill the kind of emtpiness that comes from being unfulfilled by oneself. To that end, I've discovered that medicine pulls me with a strength not unlike that of true love. It isn't love, not in the romantic sense, but I am drawn to it like I am to my loved ones. I believe I have found myself in this profession, and I am willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to prosper in it.

To make a long story short: If you are serious about becoming a physician, and you have no way to pay for it out-of-pocket, apply for loans. You will not doom your financial future if you're careful. More importantly, if you never even give yourself a chance to make your dreams come true, you are almost guaranteed a bitter life. What good is a bitter spouse or parent to anyone?

You can see where conflict might arise, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's felt it. How to be true to oneself while remaining an honorable partner? In my case, I think the end result is going to require a little bit of compromise on both sides. That's almost always the way it is, but you can do this in a way that preserves your goals.

I'm thoroughly impressed by Blee's wise counsel. It smacks of Truth as well as a very healthy perspective on life. So, listen up all you angst-filled, neophyte, nontrad premeds and take notice, myself included 😉

"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." -Bible, John 8:32

 

[Khenon]

I too have alot of pre-med school debt. Between my husband and me, we have about $100K just in student loan debt. I will likely have to max out on my med school loans, and thus will have well over $300K in student loan debt by the time I'm done. It's not a comforting thought . . . to have an oversized mortgage before I even have my first "real" job. But I figure if we can live conservatively for a few years after I do get my real job, then we can have that debt paid off in no time. So don't worry. You're not alone, and dealing with the debt is doable. 🙂