Dean's letter to medical schools from undergrad institutions

[sleeplessnights]

Hi all, I have an extremely distressing issue that is causing me to lose untold amount of sleep and keeping me from focusing on my studies.

Two years ago, when I was freshman, I received a warning from my dean for an academic honesty violation. The details of the event involved looking a something up on a test. my school is extremely tough (as it should be) on academic violations, and my dean did not think this incident was serious to warrant any punishment or action. this was mainly because that this action was not premeditated, (the resource i used was not something i brought in, rather, it was already present in the class, available to all students, but students were forbid from using it).

however i did receive a warning from my dean about this event and consequences that would follow, if i continued. (i already have **** for brains to do this once, i am not dumb enough to do something like this a second time). the only thing that came out of this incident was a 0 on the test. my transcript was unchanged. this event did not occur in one of the major science classes, or in any class required by med schools. there has been nothing since that time which has discolored my record.

i talked with the dean yesterday. (he does not remember me or this event at all). he told me that he is obligated to send a letter (a dean's letter) containing disciplinary reviews regarding my history at my university. i have never heard of such a letter. can anyone here elaborate on what my dean is talking about?


thank you

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[flip26]

Hi all, I have an extremely distressing issue that is causing me to lose untold amount of sleep and keeping me from focusing on my studies.

Two years ago, when I was freshman, I received a warning from my dean for an academic honesty violation. The details of the event involved looking a something up on a test. my school is extremely tough (as it should be) on academic violations, and my dean did not think this incident was serious to warrant any punishment or action. this was mainly because that this action was not premeditated, (meaning that the resource i used was already present in the class, available to all students, but students were forbid from using it).

however i did receive a warning from my dean about this event and consequences that would follow, if i continued. the only thing that came out of this incident was a 0 on the test. my transcript was unchanged. this event did not occur in one of the major science classes, or in any class required by med schools. there has been nothing since that time which has discolored my record.

i talked with the dean yesterday. (he does not remember me or this event at all). he told me that he is obligated to send a letter (a dean's letter) containing disciplinary reviews regarding my history at my university. i have never heard of such a letter. can anyone here elaborate on what my dean is talking about?


thank you

Who, exactly, is he "obligated" to send this letter to? This sounds like total BS to me...

Unless this letter or note is attached directly to your transcript, I would not worry about it.

Order a copy of your transcript and see if anything is noted on it...

Ask for a copy of this letter...

And why were you talking to the dean? You say he didn't even remember you or the incident - are you telling us you went to see him to ask about this?

I just got a whiff of the troll...

 

[sleeplessnights]

Who, exactly, is he "obligated" to send this letter to? This sounds like total BS to me...

Unless this letter or note is attached directly to your transcript, I would not worry about it.

Order a copy of your transcript and see if anything is noted on it...

Ask for a copy of this letter...

sorry i wasn't being clear. he told me that is required by medical schools disclose whether or not the student has committed academic dishonesty, even if that does not appear on the transcript. this request is usually a form sent out by medical schools to the deans of the undergraduate institutions.

 

[flip26]

sorry i wasn't being clear. he told me that is required by medical schools disclose whether or not the student has committed academic dishonesty, even if that does not appear on the transcript. this request is usually a form sent out by medical schools to the deans of the undergraduate institutions.

But if he did not even remember you or the incident, how did he remember it?

I really have no idea about a request sent out by medical schools...I know that you are required to report these things to AMCAS...but it has always been my impression that any kind of disciplinary action would be noted on your transcript...never heard of a separate letter or memo...

Again - why exactly were you chatting up the dean?

 

[flip26]

How would the dean even know to send a letter if he had no clue you were applying to med school. Never heard of a separate request from med schools to a dean for specific information.

I agree with this - just order an official transcript for your own use and see if there is any notation, or asterisk, or anything on it that mentions this incident - the transcript is the official school document for reporting these things...

 

[dd128]

sorry i wasn't being clear. he told me that is required by medical schools disclose whether or not the student has committed academic dishonesty, even if that does not appear on the transcript. this request is usually a form sent out by medical schools to the deans of the undergraduate institutions.

😕 I've never heard of such a thing. Admissions committees contacting the dean of every applicant? I highly doubt it. Possibly acceptees, but that still seems unlikely. I know you are required to disclose academic violations in your apps, but if there aren't any records I say pull a nixon 😉.

 

[sleeplessnights]

But if he did not even remember you or the incident, how did he remember it?

I really have no idea about a request sent out by medical schools...I know that you are required to report these things to AMCAS...but it has always been my impression that any kind of disciplinary action would be noted on your transcript...never heard of a separate letter or memo...

Again - why exactly were you chatting up the dean?

i wanted to look over my academic file, which requires the dean to be present.

also, the dean has a ledger of academic violations kept in a seperate file for his records. he told me that if the time came, when he received a request from a medical school asking information about academic conduct, he would look over his ledger and report accordingly.

 

[flip26]

😕 I've never heard of such a thing. Admissions committees contacting the dean of every applicant? I highly doubt it. Possibly acceptees, but that still seems unlikely. I know you are required to disclose academic violations in your apps, but if there aren't any records I say pull a nixon 😉.

If it is not on the transcript, it is like it didn't happen. You should have never gone to see the dean and never brought it up.

You had a good alibi - your understanding was that there was no official disciplinary action, blah blah blah, but it sounds like you reopened the can of worms...

I still detect troll scent here...

 

[flip26]

i wanted to look over my academic file, which requires the dean to be present.

also, the dean has a ledger of academic violations kept in a seperate file for his records. he told me that if the time came, when he received a request from a medical school asking information about academic conduct, he would look over his ledger and report accordingly.

Total BS.

Troll.

 

[RPedigo]

No, the Dean is somewhat right. SOME schools (i.e. Washington University in St. Louis) require a Dean's letter as part of the secondary application. It's just a form given to the Dean that asks if the applicant has violated academic honesty policies and such. However, these schools are in the vast minority.


I just downloaded the "Certification by Current Dean of Students" file for the Washington University in St. Louis secondary application. It says:

To the official representing the institution: The individual named above is applying to Washington University School of Medicine. In selecting students for the study and practice of medicine, we aim to accept only people who possess high moral character and integrity that is requisite for the practice of medicine and justifies the trust that will be placed in them. Accordingly, please provide candid answers to the following questions and return this information to the address listed at the bottom of this page. Please add narrative comments as you see fit. Please note that no action can be taken on this person's application until this form is returned. Thank you for your time and help.

Has the applicant been the subject of previous or pending disciplinary action or proceedings for misconduct? Yes* No
* Please provide an explanation for an affirmative answer. Use the reverse side or attach additional pages if needed.

 

[flip26]

Sounds like he is trying to screw you over, or at the very least doing you NO favors. Order a transcript for yourself from now on and quit talking with him about anything.

Next thing the OP is going to tell us is that the dean can clear this matter up if the OP comes over to his house for a naked hot tub party...

 

[sleeplessnights]

If it is not on the transcript, it is like it didn't happen. You should have never gone to see the dean and never brought it up.

You had a good alibi - your understanding was that there was no official disciplinary action, blah blah blah, but it sounds like you reopened the can of worms...

I still detect troll scent here...

i am not a troll. i do remember my talk with the dean after this incident occurred during freshman year. (i will never forget that day) he told me that he would be required to tell medical schools that this incident occured, even though I did not receive a notation in my transcript.

also, when i talked with him today, he told me that he has a ledger with all the academic violations that he looks over when he receives a form from medical schools asking about academic dishonesty.

 

[flip26]

No, the Dean is somewhat right. SOME schools (i.e. Washington University in St. Louis) require a Dean's letter as part of the secondary application. It's just a form given to the Dean that asks if the applicant has violated academic honesty policies and such. However, these schools are in the vast minority.

OK - in that case, the OP would be aware of the request and he could toss those secondaries into the round file...

Or the OP can "man up" and admit to this on his AMCAS and just see where it all goes...own your mistakes.

 

[sleeplessnights]

Total BS.

Troll.

please i am not a troll. i had to fill out a form that would allow me to see my academic records. i had to view them in the dean's office. i could not take anything out of the room.

 

[flip26]

i am not a troll. i do remember my talk with the dean after this incident occurred during freshman year. (i will never forget that day) he told me that he would be required to tell medical schools that this incident occured, even though I did not receive a notation in my transcript.

also, when i talked with him today, he told me that he has a ledger with all the academic violations that he looks over when he receives a form from medical schools asking about academic dishonesty.

Your story is growing new details by the minute...

OK, well, then you are screwed on this matter. Own up to it - report it on AMCAS - and live with the consequences.

 

[sleeplessnights]

sorry for this double post.

but the whole thing of institutional action baffles me. the AMCAS application says i must disclose anything, even if it does not appear on my transcript. i am not sure if this incident is covered under this clause.

is it advisable i talk with my premed advisor about this?

 

[RPedigo]

Is there something that you cannot get from transcript request?

They keep a record of all students and any disciplinary action that has occurred for that individual at my university, at least. If medical schools request it, the Dean would have access to these records; this is how WashU ensures that none of the students have academic dishonesty on their record.

For the original poster, you have two options:
(1) Own up to it on your AMCAS.
(2) Don't say anything.

If you do (1), you have a chance to explain yourself, but it will hinder your application significantly. This is also the morally sound path to take.

If you do (2), and a school finds out that you had academic dishonesty in the past and neglected to own up to it, you will be rejected, and have any acceptance rescinded most likely.

 

[sleeplessnights]

Your story is growing new details by the minute...

OK, well, then you are screwed on this matter. Own up to it - report it on AMCAS - and live with the consequences.

but what you said earlier. you said that you have not heard of such a requirement by med schools to request academic conduct violations for students.

 

[flip26]

sorry for this double post.

but the whole thing of institutional action baffles me. the AMCAS application says i must disclose anything, even if it does not appear on my transcript. i am not sure if this incident is covered under this clause.

Come on, dude. Of course it is covered. There is no freaking question about it. You cheated...you got caught...you got a zero on the exam...the dean told you he had you on super secret probation and kept a secret ledger...there is nothing baffling about this.

 

[flip26]

but what you said earlier. you said that you have not heard of such a requirement by med schools to request academic conduct violations for students.

And that was accurate. I had not heard of such a thing, but a very reliable poster on this thread says WashU does make these requests...so evidently it can happen.

Regardless, you are screwed here. Damned if you do (report it), damned if you don't...

 

[sleeplessnights]

Come on, dude. Of course it is covered. There is no freaking question about it. You cheated...you got caught...you got a zero on the exam...the dean told you he had you on super secret probation and kept a secret ledger...there is nothing baffling about this.

yeah but you guys have never heard of this mysterious "dean's letter?" you guys never had to deliver forms to the dean to fill out some kind of form to report academic violations? did you guys use an automatic letter collection service by the university to transfer forms automatically?

 

[RPedigo]

yeah but you guys have never heard of this mysterious "dean's letter?" you guys never had to deliver forms to the dean to fill out some kind of form to report academic violations? did you guys use an automatic letter collection service by the university to transfer forms automatically?

Did you even read my post? Washington University in St. Louis requires all applicants to have the Dean fill out a form stating that you have not committed any kind of academic misconduct. That said, do other schools follow this practice? Not many. So yes, some schools do, most do not.

 

[flip26]

yeah but you guys have never heard of this mysterious "dean's letter?" you guys never had to deliver forms to the dean to fill out some kind of form to report academic violations? did you guys use an automatic letter collection service by the university to transfer forms automatically?

None of your questions matter at this point because you have already been told by your dean how this is going down...if he receives a request from a medical school, and evidently this does happen, you are screwed.

I have always assumed that crap like this appears on the official transcript. I have never heard of secret dean's ledgers or separate files...sounds like BS to me...

Regardless secret files and letters, you are obligated to report this on AMCAS. Fail to do so at your own peril...academic dishonesty is just about as serious as it gets when it comes to med schools...

 

[RPedigo]

None of your questions matter at this point because you have already been told by your dean how this is going down...if he receives a request from a medical school, and evidently this does happen, you are screwed.

I have always assumed that crap like this appears on the official transcript. I have never heard of secret dean's ledgers or separate files...sounds like BS to me...

Regardless secret files and letters, you are obligated to report this on AMCAS. Fail to do so at your own peril...academic dishonesty is just about as serious as it gets when it comes to med schools...

To the original poster: This quote is basically all you need to know in this thread.

Report it on AMCAS and explain it the best you can in the blank they give you.

And this.

 

[Gpan]

I agree with RPedigo. You must own up to it, because the consequence of not doing so will follow you for the rest of your life. They could even kick you out of med school in your 4th year. Just clearly explain and admit your wrong and beg for mercy. You were young and stupid, just like everyone was at one time in their life.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Own up to it...It might hurt you, it might not...but its better than getting an acceptance revoked.

 

[Climberak]

OP, here's my $0.02.

Some medical schools check to see if any disciplinary action was taken against you, and some don't. If it is not on your transcript, the schools who don't check won't know about it.

Of course the Dean is going to say he has to disclose that information. If he didn't he could get fired. I would take what he says with a grain of salt because he's looking out for his own butt and not yours. Not every school you apply to is going to ask him about your past.

You have three options:

1) You disclose it on the AMCAS
2) You don't, but bring it up in an interview if it comes up.
3) You don't ever mention it.

As you go down this list, the chances of medical schools finding out about your past decreases, but your chances of getting screwed increases. Choose wisely, and listen to your intuition on what to do next.

 

[RoadRunner17]

We had to get a Dean to check off on our records (probably academic honesty) before we could undergo the committee process at my undergrad. So I'm assuming that it was required for us to get our committee letter. Might be irrelevant to the OP's question, but it's not exactly something they just ignore.

 

[Raryn]

A minor offense three years ago probably wont get your application dumped, but adcoms finding out you attempted to hide it definitely would. I'd say put it on your AMCAS, be careful how you phrase it, and at worst explain it in an interview.