Debating an SMP vs ala-carte classes

[LadyK]

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So I keep going back and forth between doing an SMP vs taking undergrad level classes at a state university. I know the difference between the two (cost, seperate gpa, etc) but I just can't decide which is better! I've already applied to some SMPs but haven't heard back yet.

A little about me: graduated with Psyc major, Bio minor from state school 3 years ago. Overall GPA is 3.1, BCPM is around 2.9. I had a huge dip in grades my senior year due to family issues. MCAT score was 29 (expired 🙄), have a mix of EC and volunteer experience, currently working as a lab technician.

So what would you guys do if you were in my shoes? A 1 year SMP? 1 year's worth of undergrad classes? The only problem with the latter option is that I've already taken maybe 15 credits worth of bio already, so I'm not sure if there is much left to take, unless I retake classes that I got a C or worse in. My goal is to hopefully be enrolled in med school by fall 09.

Help! I get so confused reading everyone's mixed experiences.
😳

 

[DrMidlife]

One year of ala carte isn't going to bring your numbers up much. If you get a 4.0 in that year, you're still only brought up to about a 3.15. But not to fret.

If you're interested in DO, then that one ala carte year is probably sufficient, given above-3.5 grades and a solid MCAT. There's oh so much more to take than bio: look for microbio, immunology, physiology, genetics, biochem, etc.

If you're only interested in MD, then I don't think you can improve your situation sufficiently with more undergrad work. 4 more years of undergrad work at a 4.0 is only going to bring you to a 3.5. So in this case, really all you can do is an SMP, and do extremely well in it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Xcited392]

Definitely retake the classes where you got below a C and in addition, take the science classes suggested above. You need to get your BCPM gpa through the 3.0 threshold to be competitive for SMPs, although few do get in with less than a 3.0. After you've raised your gpa, then apply to an SMP. Also, think about retaking the MCAT if you get over a 30, you'll be a good candidate for an SMP, since it caters to students with an unbalanced application (low gpa, high MCAT).

It's not the end of the world, but it'll take quite a while.

 

[DrJD]

Get above a 32 on the MCAT's, and then go to an SMP and do REALLY well, and you could matriculate by Fall 2009...

Might be hard to get into some of the SMP's for this Fall now... Have you already retaken the MCATs?

I had almost the EXACT same stats as you... (even the 29 expired) I retook and got a 38 and am now headin' to Georgetown... So it can be done! Work hard on the MCAT, and then work even HARDER at an SMP...

 

[LadyK]

One year of ala carte isn't going to bring your numbers up much. If you get a 4.0 in that year, you're still only brought up to about a 3.15. But not to fret.

If you're interested in DO, then that one ala carte year is probably sufficient, given above-3.5 grades and a solid MCAT. There's oh so much more to take than bio: look for microbio, immunology, physiology, genetics, biochem, etc.

If you're only interested in MD, then I don't think you can improve your situation sufficiently with more undergrad work. 4 more years of undergrad work at a 4.0 is only going to bring you to a 3.5. So in this case, really all you can do is an SMP, and do extremely well in it.

Best of luck to you.

Hmm, I hadn't calculated how much my gpa would go up. I should probably do that.

By bio I meant upper level classes like A&P, micro, biochem.

Definitely retake the classes where you got below a C and in addition, take the science classes suggested above. You need to get your BCPM gpa through the 3.0 threshold to be competitive for SMPs, although few do get in with less than a 3.0. After you've raised your gpa, then apply to an SMP. Also, think about retaking the MCAT if you get over a 30, you'll be a good candidate for an SMP, since it caters to students with an unbalanced application (low gpa, high MCAT).

It's not the end of the world, but it'll take quite a while.

See, I keep hearing of a 3.0 cut off, but where are you getting this? Every med school website I've seen mentions a 2.5 minimum. Is it a case where they say a 2.5 is ok, and then screen for 3.0? 😕

Get above a 32 on the MCAT's, and then go to an SMP and do REALLY well, and you could matriculate by Fall 2009...

Might be hard to get into some of the SMP's for this Fall now... Have you already retaken the MCATs?

I had almost the EXACT same stats as you... (even the 29 expired) I retook and got a 38 and am now headin' to Georgetown... So it can be done! Work hard on the MCAT, and then work even HARDER at an SMP...

Haha yes, I'm ready to work...currently studying for the mcat as if my life depends on it. I've applied to a few SMPs and expect to hear back soon. I'm just so confused as to how to avoid a glide year? I mean by the time your grades come back, it's pretty late in the cycle.

Maybe I'm just overthinking this.

 

[mattch1]

I was in your position about a year ago and have been accepted to 2 SMPs and waiting to hear from 3 more. I was accepted with a 2.8 gpa and a 33 MCAT. Everyone I've talked to wants to see intense upper level coursework - ie. an SMP. Take undergrad courses if you're only going DO or want to get some extra knowledge in before SMP or med school.
I would not take extra courses/spend extra time getting your GPA up just to apply to SMP's. Spend that time studying for the MCAT. They look for low GPA/high MCAT. If I were you, I'd look for SMPs that have an option to start in the spring (there are a few). It is approaching too late to apply to SMP's for the fall, though they are all still reviewing apps. If you want, PM me, I'm just a year further along in the process than you 🙂
hope this help,
matt

 

[Perrotfish]

See, I keep hearing of a 3.0 cut off, but where are you getting this? Every med school website I've seen mentions a 2.5 minimum. Is it a case where they say a 2.5 is ok, and then screen for 3.0

It´s a care where you can´t get in with a sub 3.0 GPA AND and MCAT that´s just average (and yours is actually below average, and expired). If you get a 33 MCAT or above and you can get into several SMPs with the sub 3.0 GPA (I believe only Loyola has a hard and fast cut off of 3.0, the rest are just suggestions). If you get over a 36 you can get into pretty much all of them.

Also, yeah, this is probably a 2 year process for you. 1 year to get your GPA and/or MCAT up, a second year to do the SMP, and then Med School 2010 (or maybe 2011 if you do a low linkage program and have a gap year). Your past many of the SMP application deadlines already, actually. If you can get into an SMP this year, though, it´s probably your best shot at 2009. Good luck.

 

[Pedsbro]

I agree with mattch. Don't take undergrad courses again for a year, just to prep yourself for an SMP (and another year). You need to shoot for an SMP. EVMS (eastern virginia) SMP has a minimum gpa of 2.75 and mcat of 25, so it's not impossible. I'm not sure about all the deadlines, but I know for sure Cincinnati's is June 1st, and I'm positive there are others still open.

_I was in your position before deciding to look at SMPs. I asked an admissions officer at Stanford Med School about taking extra undergrad science courses through an extension program at a university (i had already graduated). He said unless I took a year's worth with several courses each quarter/semester (i.e. similar workload for when I was a regular student), don't bother! Taking courses a la carte....one or two per quarter, doesn't prove to them that you can handle the tough courseload that med school offers.

Believe me, I know another lag year sucks, but you might just have to deal with it. No sense being so concerned about getting in by 2009 that you neglect something else. In the whole scheme of things, one extra year really won't matter and you can use that year to improve your app even more by doing research or working in a clinical setting (and save up money for all those loans).

 

[LadyK]

Thanks guys for your replies. My plan as of now, is to get into an SMP and then if I don't get in for 09, either work during the lag year or take the option of doing more coursework at the graduate level. I'm doing pretty well on MCAT practice tests, so we'll see, otherwise I'll retake after getting more classwork under my belt.

If all else fails, I'll be taking more classes full-time at the undergrad level. But this is an option I don't really want.

How many SMPs should I apply to just to be safe? I've completed my app at 5 schools and I'm wondering if I should add more...some don't have deadlines until June so I think there's still time if I hurry.

 

[Pedsbro]

If you can afford it, why not apply to all of them that you're even remotely interested if their deadlines haven't passed? Got nothing to lose (other than $$). I'm one of those "cast a wide net" types...others have a more selective philosophy. I applied to 6, got in to 4, and didnt' wait to hear from the other two because I had gotten into the one I wanted (cincinnati), so I withdrew the other applications. Obviously make sure you meet any minimum requirements they may have. A good idea might be to email the admissions coordinators of the SMPs and see what they think about your credentials (will they take you? do they think their program will help you? etc.). SMP admissions people tend to be very approachable and helpful.

 

[LadyK]

If you can afford it, why not apply to all of them that you're even remotely interested if their deadlines haven't passed? Got nothing to lose (other than $$). I'm one of those "cast a wide net" types...others have a more selective philosophy. I applied to 6, got in to 4, and didnt' wait to hear from the other two because I had gotten into the one I wanted (cincinnati), so I withdrew the other applications. Obviously make sure you meet any minimum requirements they may have. A good idea might be to email the admissions coordinators of the SMPs and see what they think about your credentials (will they take you? do they think their program will help you? etc.). SMP admissions people tend to be very approachable and helpful.

This process just consumes so much time and money. There are apps, transcripts, scores...blah.

Anyways, I'm browsing the forums looking for 2-3 more to apply to. I'll probably call some adcoms to see if I get any love.

 

[Perrotfish]

EDIT: sorry I misread what you wrote. Don´t do more Undergrad after an SMP. Only do more Undergrad if you don´t get into a 08 SMP.

 

[Pedsbro]

Thanks guys for your replies. My plan as of now, is to get into an SMP and then if I don't get in for 09, either work during the lag year or take the option of doing more coursework at the graduate level. I'm doing pretty well on MCAT practice tests, so we'll see, otherwise I'll retake after getting more classwork under my belt.

If all else fails, I'll be taking more classes full-time at the undergrad level. But this is an option I don't really want.

If you don't get into an SMP on the first or second try and decide to do more undergrad, do a structured post-bac (undergrad coursework program), not a la carte. If you get into an SMP and do well in it, you do NOT need to take anymore coursework in the lag year. Certainly you don't need to do any more undergrad work after doing a year's worth of grad work in an SMP...why go backwards? Grad coursework (especially from an SMP) will be looked at more than undergrad anyway...I have been told this by more than one former admissions committee members, so taking more undergrad after already doing grad work is a complete waste! If you do well in an SMP, it "takes away any doubt raised by your previous undergrad record that you can handle a med school cirriculum" in the words of one former admissions comm member that i've talked to. Taking grad work a la carte is also not necessary if you do well in the SMP...save your money for med school!

 

[LadyK]

If you don't get into an SMP on the first or second try and decide to do more undergrad, do a structured post-bac (undergrad coursework program), not a la carte. If you get into an SMP and do well in it, you do NOT need to take anymore coursework in the lag year. Certainly you don't need to do any more undergrad work after doing a year's worth of grad work in an SMP...why go backwards? Grad coursework (especially from an SMP) will be looked at more than undergrad anyway...I have been told this by more than one former admissions committee members, so taking more undergrad after already doing grad work is a complete waste! If you do well in an SMP, it "takes away any doubt raised by your previous undergrad record that you can handle a med school cirriculum" in the words of one former admissions comm member that i've talked to. Taking grad work a la carte is also not necessary if you do well in the SMP...save your money for med school!

I meant I'll be taking more undergrad classes only if I don't get into an SMP. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

My order of preference is
1)SMP with no lag year
2)SMP w/ lag year
3)full time post bacc with 3-4 upper level bio classes per semester.

I will not be doing all 3 of these options, just one...depends on my luck.

 

[Pedsbro]

That's a good plan. I must have misread what you and the other guy wrote.