Deciding between schools

[amentruethat]

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I realize there are a couple of threads on this topic, but I'd like to think that my particular case is somewhat unique. I'm not asking for which people think is the better school necessarily, but more what they think of the reasons I have for attending either school and how much those reasons should weigh on my final decision.

I am currently torn between the Feinberg School of Medicine (Northwestern) and the University of Massachusetts Medical School. They are almost completely different, and yet they both appeal greatly to me. I'll try and be brief with my thoughts:

Feinberg:
Pros:
-Having done my undergrad and master's work at Northwestern, I have established a number of connections with faculty and students.
- I am currently doing research (orthopaedic related) in a pretty well known lab for a pretty well known PI, and would probably continue working here. I also have been shadowing the co-chair of the orthopaedics department and hence, I think I have a pretty good chance of getting into a competitive orthopaedic residency after graduation (assuming boards etc. go well)
- Location is A1, it's in the heart of chicago in one of the most prestigious neighborhoods, hospitals are amazing, facilities are amazing
- PBL curriculum is my preferred style of learning
Cons:
- Expensive (~70k /year)

UMass:
Pros:
- Instate tuition (~45k/ year), but enrolling in the Learning Contract forgives 2/3s of that with 4 years of primary care service in an under-served/low-income area.
- I highly value service and helping the under-served and Umass would be the place to do it.
Cons:
- Location isn't as nice
- Career options don't seem as glamorous

I guess what is really tearing at me is the conflict between my desire to DO Good, and my desire to LIVE Good. Obviously it's not as black and white as that...it's more like a conflict between DOING better or LIVING better. I swore when I decided to pursue medicine that it wasn't "about the money" and that I wanted to help people no matter what. I think I still believe that, but I'm having a hard time thinking about how I am going to live that out.

Any thoughts?

(On a somewhat un-related note... I can see why there is a shortage of Primary Care physicians in this country...the same thing applies to primary and secondary school teachers in the American education system...*sigh*)

 

[Bcblazer]

I think if you have the desire to DO good, you can (and will) do it anywhere, including the place where you'll be happy. Judging by the tone of your post, it seems to me like Feinberg is the place for you. That's my take.

 

[WellWornLad]

I guess what is really tearing at me is the conflict between my desire to DO Good, and my desire to LIVE Good. Obviously it's not as black and white as that...it's more like a conflict between DOING better or LIVING better. I swore when I decided to pursue medicine that it wasn't "about the money" and that I wanted to help people no matter what. I think I still believe that, but I'm having a hard time thinking about how I am going to live that out.

Oh come on...are you going to med school or becoming a crime-fighting superhero? Cause that quote reads like it came straight from some comic book speech bubble.

Pre-allo issue.

 

[Bcblazer]

Oh come on...are you going to med school or becoming a crime-fighting superhero? Cause that quote reads like it came straight from some comic book speech bubble.

However cheesy it may sound, it appears that the OP is being honest and open. I don't see any need for cynicism. I'm sure you were idealistic at some point as well.

 

[amentruethat]

Haha, first of all, I appreciate the honesty. I did like crime-fighting superheroes as a kid...so who knows, maybe there were some subconscious influences there. In any case, I maintain my right to be idealistic!

Blazer, I am indeed leaning towards Feinberg. But I wanted to make sure it was for the right reasons. If I go to Feinberg, I will most likely pursue a higher-paying specialty to off-set the greater incurred debt. If I go to UMMS, I would probably take advantage of the learning contract and work in primary care. Why choose a specialty vs. primary care? For many people, I don't think it is as much of an issue of interests, as it is an issue of wealth/prestige/status. Academically, I am interested in orthopaedics, but my reason for getting into medicine was - as cliche as it sounds - to help people. Perhaps I'm just looking for affirmation that I am not "selling out" on my ideals by pursuing a specialty that may not be helping the people that need the most help.

Financially, the cost of Feinberg was a little daunting compared to UMMS. I think I have a better chance at a better residency if I go to Feinberg, but I would imagine I could get into one just as good if I go to UMMS...so why pay the extra $20k /year? Just so I'll enjoy med school more?

I wasn't really sure what I was thinking when I first posted this thread, I kind of needed a place where I could flush out my thoughts and get feedback (one reason why a PBL curriculum suits me better).

 

[Bcblazer]

This thread just came as a welcome breath of fresh air to me. I'm sick of seeing the endless numbers of threads where people are asking about which school has a better reputation, which will help them get a better residency, etc.

It is true that there are a good number of people who won't even consider primary care, either because (they think) it doesn't pay well enough, or because (again, they think) it's less prestigious than surgery. That's sad.

However, I have met a lot of great people, who care about more than themselves, in many different specialties, so I don't believe any crap about primary care docs being on a higher moral ground. I often hear around hospitals that primary care folks are "good people," and for the most part it's true. But you could go against the stereotype and be a nice, patient, humble surgeon. That would be nice.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This may just be me, but there is no way I would get involved in any program that required a primary care commitment; especially if you already think you may have a strong interest in a surgical subspecialty.

Now that doesn't mean I would automatically choose Northwestern, but I would think carefully before doing this learning contract thingy.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Haha, first of all, I appreciate the honesty. I did like crime-fighting superheroes as a kid...so who knows, maybe there were some subconscious influences there. In any case, I maintain my right to be idealistic!

Blazer, I am indeed leaning towards Feinberg. But I wanted to make sure it was for the right reasons. If I go to Feinberg, I will most likely pursue a higher-paying specialty to off-set the greater incurred debt. If I go to UMMS, I would probably take advantage of the learning contract and work in primary care. Why choose a specialty vs. primary care? For many people, I don't think it is as much of an issue of interests, as it is an issue of wealth/prestige/status. Academically, I am interested in orthopaedics, but my reason for getting into medicine was - as cliche as it sounds - to help people. Perhaps I'm just looking for affirmation that I am not "selling out" on my ideals by pursuing a specialty that may not be helping the people that need the most help.

Financially, the cost of Feinberg was a little daunting compared to UMMS. I think I have a better chance at a better residency if I go to Feinberg, but I would imagine I could get into one just as good if I go to UMMS...so why pay the extra $20k /year? Just so I'll enjoy med school more?

I wasn't really sure what I was thinking when I first posted this thread, I kind of needed a place where I could flush out my thoughts and get feedback (one reason why a PBL curriculum suits me better).

You are not going to starve as a physician. If what you really want to do
is help people, then how about this, go through med school with a totally
open mind and do the speciality that you will look forward to doing at
6AM every morning. You will work a lot as a doctor. If your primary
motivation is prestige and a speciality that sounds good rolling off of
the tongue, cut the crap and be honest with yourself. No matter which
school you end up going to, you can still do whatever the hell you want.
By the tone of your post, that idea of 'helping people' is slowly fleeting.
Not a good sign this early in the game.
Wait until you get to the end of 2nd year, then you'll really know if
you are in it for the money or to help people.

 

[shnuffles]

This may just be me, but there is no way I would get involved in any program that required a primary care commitment; especially if you already think you may have a strong interest in a surgical subspecialty.

Now that doesn't mean I would automatically choose Northwestern, but I would think carefully before doing this learning contract thingy.

I agree with this. I don't know how binding this contract is, but I would certainly be wary of shutting any doors this early on (especially since you've indicated a strong interest in a surgical specialty!!).

 

[kingofthehill]

This might sound corny and cliche OP, but do whatever will make you the most happy. Only you know what that is.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd definitely go to NU...

 

[riceman04]

I realize there are a couple of threads on this topic, but I'd like to think that my particular case is somewhat unique. I'm not asking for which people think is the better school necessarily, but more what they think of the reasons I have for attending either school and how much those reasons should weigh on my final decision.

I am currently torn between the Feinberg School of Medicine (Northwestern) and the University of Massachusetts Medical School. They are almost completely different, and yet they both appeal greatly to me. I'll try and be brief with my thoughts:

Feinberg:
Pros:
-Having done my undergrad and master's work at Northwestern, I have established a number of connections with faculty and students.
- I am currently doing research (orthopaedic related) in a pretty well known lab for a pretty well known PI, and would probably continue working here. I also have been shadowing the co-chair of the orthopaedics department and hence, I think I have a pretty good chance of getting into a competitive orthopaedic residency after graduation (assuming boards etc. go well)
- Location is A1, it's in the heart of chicago in one of the most prestigious neighborhoods, hospitals are amazing, facilities are amazing
- PBL curriculum is my preferred style of learning
Cons:
- Expensive (~70k /year)

UMass:
Pros:
- Instate tuition (~45k/ year), but enrolling in the Learning Contract forgives 2/3s of that with 4 years of primary care service in an under-served/low-income area.
- I highly value service and helping the under-served and Umass would be the place to do it.
Cons:
- Location isn't as nice
- Career options don't seem as glamorous

I guess what is really tearing at me is the conflict between my desire to DO Good, and my desire to LIVE Good. Obviously it's not as black and white as that...it's more like a conflict between DOING better or LIVING better. I swore when I decided to pursue medicine that it wasn't "about the money" and that I wanted to help people no matter what. I think I still believe that, but I'm having a hard time thinking about how I am going to live that out.

Any thoughts?

(On a somewhat un-related note... I can see why there is a shortage of Primary Care physicians in this country...the same thing applies to primary and secondary school teachers in the American education system...*sigh*)

I can appreciate a thread like this b/c it seems as if you have actually thought about the pros and cons.

I am curious to know why you do not feel as if you can pursue any primary care/underserved related opportunities at Northwestern or why you cannot pursue the "glamorous" route at UMass. Many people these options at schools comparable to your current choices.

I am with someone who said early who said it sounds like you are leaning towards Northwestern. And if you are leaning towards Feinberg maybe you should investigate if there are integrated ortho related research projects that also focus on underserved/disenfranchised populations. I know Pitt, UCSF, Stanford, and many other big name research schools have begun to focus on such research (cardiology/policy...etc).

Best of luck to you fellow C/O 2013er!!!!😀

 

[riceman04]

I'd definitely go to NU...

just curious to know your reasoning b/c I may be in a similar situation. A $25K diff per year is steep And assuming you did not respond according to the OP's own leanings, why did you come to that conclusion?

thanks drizz!!!!

 

[drizzt3117]

just curious to know your reasoning b/c I may be in a similar situation. A $25K diff per year is steep And assuming you did not respond according to the OP's own leanings, why did you come to that conclusion?

thanks drizz!!!!

I think the combination of curriculum, teaching style, P/F, location, reputation, and excellent teaching facilities is difficult to beat. It was in my final top 5, and I have a number of friends there, all of whom seem to love it.

 

[amentruethat]

You are not going to starve as a physician. If what you really want to do
is help people, then how about this, go through med school with a totally
open mind and do the speciality that you will look forward to doing at
6AM every morning. You will work a lot as a doctor. If your primary
motivation is prestige and a speciality that sounds good rolling off of
the tongue, cut the crap and be honest with yourself. No matter which
school you end up going to, you can still do whatever the hell you want.
By the tone of your post, that idea of 'helping people' is slowly fleeting.
Not a good sign this early in the game.
Wait until you get to the end of 2nd year, then you'll really know if
you are in it for the money or to help people.

Thanks, so I think that is a big part of the dilemma here. I am conscious of the fact that "prestige and a speciality that sounds good rolling off of the tongue" is a factor in making my decisions. Thus, my concern is that if I "forsake" (for lack of a better word) primary care, that I am stepping on a slippery slope to not "helping people".

To put an ethical twist on it, let's consider some Kant (why not? should be fun). What if everyone made the same decision as me and decided to pursue a specialty instead of primary care because they think they would enjoy it better? The world would probably have a shortage of primary care physicians...which would be bad...so if I can't will that everyone make the same choice as I, doesn't that mean that my choice is unethical?

All things being the same, I agree that it is better to wait until 3rd year rotations to decide on whether or not to pursue a specialty. But if I go to Northwestern and opt for primary care, it would be a costly decision. That's a lot of debt to pay off on a primary care salary (I think it's less about wealth, and more about not wanting to spend 25 years in debt). If however, I go to UMMS and decide to pursue orthopaedics, it's somewhat of a waste because I had many things already set up for me a Northwestern...

I like the idea of looking into orthopaedic programs for under-served. I will give that a try.

Thanks!

 

[DoctorDeMan]

Thanks, so I think that is a big part of the dilemma here. I am conscious of the fact that "prestige and a speciality that sounds good rolling off of the tongue" is a factor in making my decisions. Thus, my concern is that if I "forsake" (for lack of a better word) primary care, that I am stepping on a slippery slope to not "helping people".

To put an ethical twist on it, let's consider some Kant (why not? should be fun). What if everyone made the same decision as me and decided to pursue a specialty instead of primary care because they think they would enjoy it better? The world would probably have a shortage of primary care physicians...which would be bad...so if I can't will that everyone make the same choice as I, doesn't that mean that my choice is unethical?

All things being the same, I agree that it is better to wait until 3rd year rotations to decide on whether or not to pursue a specialty. But if I go to Northwestern and opt for primary care, it would be a costly decision. That's a lot of debt to pay off on a primary care salary (I think it's less about wealth, and more about not wanting to spend 25 years in debt). If however, I go to UMMS and decide to pursue orthopaedics, it's somewhat of a waste because I had many things already set up for me a Northwestern...

I like the idea of looking into orthopaedic programs for under-served. I will give that a try.

Thanks!

You can still "help people" without going into primary care. Do you think ortho surgeons don't help anyone? You could also do some philanthropic activities related to ortho surgery (say, spending a month educating future surgeons in another country).

Your "ethical twist" is almost exactly what is happening and is the reason why there is a shortage of primary care doctors. But on an individual basis you gotta do what's best for you. It is your life.

If you love NW, go to NW. Tell them about the cost difference and your desire to go there and see if they will offer you some scholarships.

EDIT: Also, you don't know how ortho and primary care salaries will change under this (and the next) administration. Some believe that primary care could actually see pay increases. Ortho will likely decrease. You are unlikely to get filthy rich as a FP doctor, but it might not be quite as bad as it is now... just a thought.