Defer a Year to go to Cambridge?

[mdeast]

Pretty unexpected events today. I applied for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship back in the Fall but wasn't selected for interview (probably most likely because my application was about a week late, so I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to be considered). I had pretty much resigned myself to rejection, as the Masters degree course I applied for was extremely competitive, with usually about 2-3 US applicants accepted each year.

Anyway, I just got an email (about 6 months later) from the course director of the program I applied for that I'm being offered a place in the program at Cambridge (conditional...on the condition that I can arrange my visa and work out finances for the program). The MPhil course is related to the intersection between science, medicine, policy, business and entrepreneurial pursuits. Basically, about the biotech/biomedical sector and how you can be a leader in it to bring new advances to the clinic from multiple, interdisciplinary perspectives. It's a 9-month program + thesis spent anywhere you want around the world working with a medical device/pharmaceutical company. I want to go into academic medicine/research so this is exactly what I eventually want to do with medicine at some point later in my career. One of the reasons I loved Stanford so much, because they had awesome opportunities for this.

The program usually takes people on different tracks- business people, lawyers, PhDs, MDs, MD-PhDs. Most the gates scholars usually go onto medical school or grad school...or are already attending either. There were Stanford and Harvard med students who have done this program in the past few years.

I loved the idea of this program, and absolutely wanted to attend and live abroad for another year when I applied (I spent a year in the UK as an undergrad). But, I've also got to the point where I had almost completely forgotten about this, gotten ridiculously excited about med school next year and straight clinical medicine, and resigned to the stance that it might be better to re-visit these intentions later in my medical career when I had a better idea of what I actually wanted to do/practice. Without the Gates scholarship though, and now facing the reality that I will get very little aid in med school...I think this pursuit seems financially unrealistic at this point.

I see my options as:

(1) Taking on a buttload more debt, deferring medical school, and attending anyway. (I just can't imagine doing this)
(2) Trying to persuade the other Cambridge Trusts to fund my MPhil year.
(3) Withdrawing from Cambridge, and maybe revisiting this option as a 5th year of med school at some point over the next 4 years (potentially with a Gates scholarship or other funding the second time around).

Thoughts? Was totally not expecting this.

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[flip26]

Without the funding, I would not do it.

No way...

 

[mdeast]

Without the funding, I would not do it.

No way...

Yeah, I just can't imagine paying for this. I thought it would have been an awesome opportunity to live abroad again and continue to dissect medicine from other viewpoints and see if this is a direction I could take my medical career (academic medicine with a research/biotech focus).

But, given that I'm not entirely sure if this is where my career will eventually take me, I don't think spending another 50k to investigate this side of medicine is really going to be a good idea.

I'll probably withdraw if I can't get money from another trust.

 

[flip26]

Yeah, I just can't imagine paying for this. I thought it would have been an awesome opportunity to live abroad again and continue to dissect medicine from other viewpoints and see if this is a direction I could take my medical career (academic medicine with a research/biotech focus).

But, given that I'm not entirely sure if this is where my career will eventually take me, I don't think spending another 50k to investigate this side of medicine is really going to be a good idea.

I'll probably withdraw if I can't get money from another trust.

The 5th year med school idea is a good one - Fulbright becomes an option.

But no way I would take on that kind of cost/debt.

 

[mdeast]

The 5th year med school idea is a good one - Fulbright becomes an option.

But no way I would take on that kind of cost/debt.

Yeah, I'd probably just re-apply for the Gates Cambridge. They're easier to get than a Fulbright in the UK lol (Fulbrights in English speaking countries....wow, ridiculously hard). I met a Stanford student who did this program when I interviewed through the Gates grant, so I know people definitely do it in med school.

I emailed Cambridge and asked if they could see if they could secure me trust funding (they have these for overseas/US applicants, but I don't think it's necessarily full tuition).

 

[245399]

Congratulations! I would definitely go to Cambridge.

Pretty unexpected events today. I applied for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship back in the Fall but wasn't selected for interview (probably most likely because my application was about a week late, so I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to be considered). I had pretty much resigned myself to rejection, as the Masters degree course I applied for was extremely competitive, with usually about 2-3 US applicants accepted each year.

Anyway, I just got an email (about 6 months later) from the course director of the program I applied for that I'm being offered a place in the program at Cambridge (conditional...on the condition that I can arrange my visa and work out finances for the program). The MPhil course is related to the intersection between science, medicine, policy, business and entrepreneurial pursuits. Basically, about the biotech/biomedical sector and how you can be a leader in it to bring new advances to the clinic from multiple, interdisciplinary perspectives. It's a 9-month program + thesis spent anywhere you want around the world working with a medical device/pharmaceutical company. I want to go into academic medicine/research so this is exactly what I eventually want to do with medicine at some point later in my career. One of the reasons I loved Stanford so much, because they had awesome opportunities for this.

The program usually takes people on different tracks- business people, lawyers, PhDs, MDs, MD-PhDs. Most the gates scholars usually go onto medical school or grad school...or are already attending either. There were Stanford and Harvard med students who have done this program in the past few years.

I loved the idea of this program, and absolutely wanted to attend and live abroad for another year when I applied (I spent a year in the UK as an undergrad). But, I've also got to the point where I had almost completely forgotten about this, gotten ridiculously excited about med school next year and straight clinical medicine, and resigned to the stance that it might be better to re-visit these intentions later in my medical career when I had a better idea of what I actually wanted to do/practice. Without the Gates scholarship though, and now facing the reality that I will get very little aid in med school...I think this pursuit seems financially unrealistic at this point.

I see my options as:

(1) Taking on a buttload more debt, deferring medical school, and attending anyway. (I just can't imagine doing this)
(2) Trying to persuade the other Cambridge Trusts to fund my MPhil year.
(3) Withdrawing from Cambridge, and maybe revisiting this option as a 5th year of med school at some point over the next 4 years (potentially with a Gates scholarship or other funding the second time around).

Thoughts? Was totally not expecting this.

 

[mdeast]

Alas. Just got the reply: all scholarships have been given out, only small bursaries still available.

No way I can afford to do this. Oh well, that was a fun 45 minutes.

 

[Nevadanteater]

I think you probably should try to divorce yourself from the Cambridge/living abroad factor.

Ask yourself: all other things being equal, 'would I do this program were it in the US?'

Personally I don't think I would go given your situation, though I've spent the last 18 months in Oxford and have lived in the UK for quite a bit longer - anyways, I'm more of an LSE/UCL kinda guy, but that's just me.

 

[mdeast]

I think you probably should try to divorce yourself from the Cambridge/living abroad factor.

Ask yourself: all other things being equal, 'would I do this program were it in the US?'

Personally I don't think I would go given your situation, though I've spent the last 18 months in Oxford and have lived in the UK for quite a bit longer - anyways, I'm more of an LSE/UCL kinda guy, but that's just me.

I'd actually prefer if it was in the US. Cambridge, UK is not nearly as cool as say....Cambridge, MA. I studied in London, so yeah, I'd be more of a LSE/UCL guy myself too. I just really like the program. But yeah, with no money this a no-brainer. It's just not worth it.

 

[afugazzi]

I think you probably should try to divorce yourself from the Cambridge/living abroad factor.

Ask yourself: all other things being equal, 'would I do this program were it in the US?'

Personally I don't think I would go given your situation, though I've spent the last 18 months in Oxford and have lived in the UK for quite a bit longer - anyways, I'm more of an LSE/UCL kinda guy, but that's just me.

What is UCL like?

 

[mdeast]

What is UCL like?

UCL= Central London. One of the most fun places in the world.

 

[Nevadanteater]

UCL= Central London. One of the most fun places in the world.

+1 for emphasis.

 

[Narmerguy]

Yeah, I'd probably just re-apply for the Gates Cambridge. They're easier to get than a Fulbright in the UK lol (Fulbrights in English speaking countries....wow, ridiculously hard). I met a Stanford student who did this program when I interviewed through the Gates grant, so I know people definitely do it in med school.

I emailed Cambridge and asked if they could see if they could secure me trust funding (they have these for overseas/US applicants, but I don't think it's necessarily full tuition).

Really? I always understood the Gates Cambridge scholarship to be really rigorous to accomplish.

 

[mdeast]

So Update...still looking for opinions...or for someone to tell my I'm completely and utterly crazy and just to give up on my desire to live abroad again!

I talked to a friend of mine who got a completely different MPhil from Cambridge (Criminal Justice MPhil I think). He knew people on my course and was shocked that I got in. It's apparently one of the most competitive courses at Cambridge (they usually get about 200 applications for 25 spots), and everyone seemed very successful coming out of it. He told me to go for it, as it might be difficult to get in a second time.

I got the financial details yesterday...and I'm still thinking about this.

Total CoA including what they say is "minimal living expenses" (housing, food, basic travel), comes to about $37,675 US dollars (21,000 tuition, 17,000 living expenses). I imagine it will end up being slightly more...assuming I want to do things like have fun. Runs October-June so I'd still be set for starting medical school next summer if I defer. I have about 20k saved up that I was looking to apply to medical school. I could take out the rest in loans?

Trying to justify this, the medical school I've chosen is roughly about 10k/year cheaper than my other options. So if I end up going there, I'm saving 40k off the bat as compared to other places anyway.

I also just made an amazing deal with the parents to loan me the money for medical school (they won't give me any money for Cambridge though). So, I won't be taking out any interest loans. I'll have the 250k in debt but it will be interest free.

 

[mdeast]

Really? I always understood the Gates Cambridge scholarship to be really rigorous to accomplish.

Fulbrights are rarely given out for study in the UK. They're mainly for research, and only about 10 of these total to begin with. Whereas...there are roughly 30-40 Gates scholarships given out every year to US applicants, specifically for study at Cambridge. Still ridiculously hard to get.

 

[flip26]

So Update...still looking for opinions...or for someone to tell my I'm completely and utterly crazy and just to give up on my desire to live abroad again!

I talked to a friend of mine who got a completely different MPhil from Cambridge (Criminal Justice MPhil I think). He knew people on my course and was shocked that I got in. It's apparently one of the most competitive courses at Cambridge (they usually get about 200 applications for 25 spots), and everyone seemed very successful coming out of it. He told me to go for it, as it might be difficult to get in a second time.

I got the financial details yesterday...and I'm still thinking about this.

Total CoA including what they say is "minimal living expenses" (housing, food, basic travel), comes to about $37,675 US dollars (21,000 tuition, 17,000 living expenses). I imagine it will end up being slightly more...assuming I want to do things like have fun. Runs October-June so I'd still be set for starting medical school next summer if I defer. I have about 20k saved up that I was looking to apply to medical school. I could take out the rest in loans?

Trying to justify this, the medical school I've chosen is roughly about 10k/year cheaper than my other options. So if I end up going there, I'm saving 40k off the bat as compared to other places anyway.

I also just made an amazing deal with the parents to loan me the money for medical school (they won't give me any money for Cambridge though). So, I won't be taking out any interest loans. I'll have the 250k in debt but it will be interest free.

You will get other opportunities in med school to apply to these kinds of programs. I would not be swayed by the "competitiveness" of what you got. Frankly, it is insulting that they offered you a spot if you are only willing to pay for the privilege - the attraction of these deals (Gates, Fulbright, Rhodes, etc.) is that they are FREE...

Not telling you what to do, but I would not do it myself.

 

[Lewist02]

I'm not too familiar with the Cambridge program, but say you don't do it this year and go directly to med school. If you reapply later, and you don't get in, how disappointed would you be that you didn't get the opportunity? If you can't stand the idea of not being accepted later, do it now. Honestly, I think the experience will be more beneficial than not taking on ~$18,000 of debt (considering you use your savings for the remainder).

 

[mdeast]

You will get other opportunities in med school to apply to these kinds of programs. I would not be swayed by the "competitiveness" of what you got. Frankly, it is insulting that they offered you a spot if you are only willing to pay for the privilege - the attraction of these deals (Gates, Fulbright, Rhodes, etc.) is that they are FREE...

Not telling you what to do, but I would not do it myself.

The selection committee for the program is completely separate from the Gates foundation. They have no say in whether or not I was considered for the award...(or any other university award for that matter)...that's a separate application so it has nothing to do with the program.

I'm thinking the best idea might be to reapply later in my career when maybe I could work out a better financial situation. Still debating it though...I'm still in the process of being selected for a college at Cambridge so I'm not even "officially" admitted. I'll have until June/July to decide, but I'd like to let whatever med school I'm going to know early enough to give my spot to a waitlist candidate should I decide to go.

Thanks for the advice though 🙂

 

[mdeast]

I'm not too familiar with the Cambridge program, but say you don't do it this year and go directly to med school. If you reapply later, and you don't get in, how disappointed would you be that you didn't get the opportunity? If you can't stand the idea of not being accepted later, do it now. Honestly, I think the experience will be more beneficial than not taking on ~$18,000 of debt (considering you use your savings for the remainder).

I'll definitely be dissapointed. But MD is sort of my main degree. This is the icing. Cake comes first. The cream cheese frosting is just a really sweet addition.

 

[flip26]

Congratulations! These kinds of opportunities do not come along every day, so I would take it and run with it.

I have been following this board for much of the last year's application cycle. I've noticed that flip26 tends to be very antagonistic when it comes to others taking on debt. Debt, and the level that you're comfortable taking on, is a personal preference. No one else gets to judge you for what you prioritize in life.

Also keep in mind that this $35,000 or so is a drop in the bucket of what you will earn over your lifetime as a physician and may create opportunities you could not have imagined.

I have noticed that you are pretty cavalier and carefree when it comes to others taking on debt.

 

[Narmerguy]

I'm not too familiar with the Cambridge program, but say you don't do it this year and go directly to med school. If you reapply later, and you don't get in, how disappointed would you be that you didn't get the opportunity? If you can't stand the idea of not being accepted later, do it now. Honestly, I think the experience will be more beneficial than not taking on ~$18,000 of debt (considering you use your savings for the remainder).

If he's capable of getting into this program, it's probably likely that he isn't going to get rejected from all his schools.

 

[Ok2Panic]

Fulbrights are rarely given out for study in the UK. They're mainly for research, and only about 10 of these total to begin with. Whereas...there are roughly 30-40 Gates scholarships given out every year to US applicants, specifically for study at Cambridge. Still ridiculously hard to get.

Sorry, not to hijack your thread, but just wanted to correct you on this for anyone else who might have been reading/interested in a Fulbright. There are 35 full Fulbright grants given out in the UK, and a whole bunch of single university-specific individual grants. While it's true that it's generally a research grant (excluding the teaching grants for some of the non-English speaking countries), a lot of people circumvent this by doing a Master's and doing the research component of the grant as their Master's thesis, if that makes sense. It definitely is ridiculously hard to get one to certain countries, the UK most definitely being one of those countries. I didn't go to the UK, but just finished a Fulbright elsewhere this year and I, of course, never thought I'd get it, but sometimes you just get really lucky!

Anyway, small tangent, carry on!

 

[Hoody]

I'd do it,


Is there any way you can update places you're waiting on (i.e Stanford, Penn) and let me them know you'd like an acceptance and you be willing to defer it for this awesome opportunity?

 

[flip26]

Nope, just offering another viewpoint. Best of luck with your decision, mdeast!

With your "viewpoint," you also trashed me.

Read the TOS...did you manage to do that in your year of lurking?

Mdeast is a big boy. He is smart enough to read what people have posted and form his own opinion.

 

[flip26]

You need to CHILL, bro! You are running around this board trashing other people's decisions about money when it's not your place and talking down to people because you know SO much more than them. And by the way, everyone knows you're a total HYPOCRITE because you're going to an expensive private school over your state school - which you would trash ANYONE else for doing. You seem like a toxic person and I feel sorry for your future classmates and patients!

WOW did that feel good. Ban away!

The only poster running around this board trashing other people is YOU.

Buh bye!

 

[mdeast]

I'd do it,


Is there any way you can update places you're waiting on (i.e Stanford, Penn) and let me them know you'd like an acceptance and you be willing to defer it for this awesome opportunity?

Hahahahaa, no. 🙂 If I'm offered an acceptance off the waitlist and I really want to go there, I'd choose medical school over Cambridge in a heartbeat if it came down that. Medical school is just more important to me...it's where I ultimately want to end up. Again. Cake vs. icing. I'd never jeopardize having to reapply again. It's not THAT important to me.

It's a cool program, and related to my entrepreneurial/business/science-y side. Completely separate from a medical degree though, although I'd be surprised if there weren't some US doctors/fellows on the course next year as well (they take a wide age range). This is more about learning about the business/policy of translational research rather than the treatments and pathologies behind diseases that you learn in med school. I thought it'd be something interesting to do before medical school to guide the choices and opportunities I pursue as a med student if I ultimately wanted to end up as a doc that taught, did research, and also tried to get my research made into something that is useful in the clinic. I work in a stem cell lab now, and I can see how business principles are ultimately going to be things that guides this research and places cell therapeutics as things that are relevant to an already financially strained healthcare system.

I had been thinking about doing a MD/MBA program and I think this might sort of replace that? Not sure.

http://www.biot.cam.ac.uk/mbe/programme/index.htm

Edit: Thanks guys for the differing opinions. It's helpful. No need to fight. 🙂

 

[mdeast]

Shameless bump, just curious if there are anymore opinions? My last bump, I promise! 🙂

 

[flip26]

Shameless bump, just curious if there are anymore opinions? My last bump, I promise! 🙂

Only this: if you decide for now to accept the Cambridge deal, how hard would it be to back out? Like, when would you actually have to commit $ to it?

Personally, I would not want to live with the uncertainty. You already have some of that with the Stanford waitlist, and I am sure if that came through, you would be happy to switch. I would not want to have any other wild cards at this late date is all.

Always nice to have options, but at some point, it is nice to have closure.

 

[surftheiop]

Shameless bump, just curious if there are anymore opinions? My last bump, I promise! 🙂

I know this is somewhat taboo on SDN but.... what do your parents think?

 

[mdeast]

Only this: if you decide for now to accept the Cambridge deal, how hard would it be to back out? Like, when would you actually have to commit $ to it?

Personally, I would not want to live with the uncertainty. You already have some of that with the Stanford waitlist, and I am sure if that came through, you would be happy to switch. I would not want to have any other wild cards at this late date is all.

Always nice to have options, but at some point, it is nice to have closure.

Haha, I could back out in August if I wanted to. It's of really no consequence. I was offered a conditional offer anyway. Meaning...it's on the condition that I can pay for my course. I'm also gonna wait until mid-June...by then, Cambridge releases most of its Trust Scholarships...so it's possible this could end up being free anyway. I'm obviously someone who likes options 🙂

Also...if I get into Stanford, this issue probably wouldn't complicate much. There's no way I'd choose attending med school at Stanford over Cambridge. I like Stanford way too much 😉

I think my parents probably would prefer I forgot about it to be honest. They didn't find it super practical, and I partially agree with them. But I wouldn't ask them for any money anyway, so it's largely my decision.

 

[d1ony5u5]

Mdeast,

The only way I'd do the program would be if it were free. It sounds really cool, but I get the feeling that there is a good amount of programs that have a similar objective for which you can be really competitive for while being a medical student.

Another advantage of doing this once you are a medical student is that you would have a better idea of what you wanted to focus in.

In short, this is an opportunity worth delaying medical school for one year only if it is free... otherwise, you should have other options in the future which would make a lot more sense financially and strategically.

 

[naijaboi]

Congratulations! These kinds of opportunities do not come along every day, so I would take it and run with it.

I have been following this board for much of the last year's application cycle. I've noticed that flip26 tends to be very antagonistic when it comes to others taking on debt. Debt, and the level that you're comfortable taking on, is a personal preference. No one else gets to judge you for what you prioritize in life.

Also keep in mind that this $35,000 or so is a drop in the bucket of what you will earn over your lifetime as a physician and may create opportunities you could not have imagined.

While I often disagree with flip26, he is always on point when it comes to debt. It should not be taken so cavalierly. Those same opportunities will exist in his fifth year, and then he will have a much more expanded resume and would perhaps be a more competitive candidate.

Mdeast: You don't have anything to lose by waiting till your fifth year and reapplying to this program (fullbright, and other paid fellowships). Save your money.