Deferring Enrollment Question

[PM2009]

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I'm sorry if this has been discussed a lot in the past...feel free to just post a few links for me. I can't seem to find the search button on this site today 😕.

So this is just kind of a what would you do sort of question. I haven't heard back from the only school I applied to yet (the deadline for application materials was Monday) and don't know if I'll get in but I need to start thinking about what I'm going to do if I did. Here's why:

I got an amazing job a few weeks ago (right after graduating college ). The pay is amazing and it's in an orthopedic lab which is what I'm interested in. Although our products are made from human tissue to treat humans there are many applications to veterinary medicine which are being explored at several top schools using our patented technique on animals.

Here's the problem: If I do get into vet school I'm not sure I'll be ready to leave this job come August for several reasons. One of the main ones is that by working for 1.5 years (while living at home so having low expenses) I'll be able to pay all but a few thousand of my vet school tuition in cash. Plus, I really love this job and I want to get as much experience and learn as much as possible while I can.

So would these be valid reasons to deferr enrollment or would I have to decline their offer if I do get accepted. What would you do? It's just hard for me to wrap my mind around walking away from that kind of money and choosing to be in massive debt forever instead when I could possibly have the best of both worlds. I'd be starting back at '0' after vet school but at least I'd be mostly debt free.

 

[twelvetigers]

I would totally post links if the search function was working...

I would call the school(s) in question and present the situation to them, or at least ask under what conditions a deferment could occur. Some places don't care why, others only accept medical or military reasons (and all only let you defer for one year). If they won't let you defer for the job, you might consider withdrawing instead - before you get accepted or rejected. This looks better, you don't have to list a past acceptance on VMCAS.... but make sure you are certain that this is what you want to do.

 

[PM2009]

Thanks, I'll do that but I hate to call and bother them right this minute. They should be sending out OOS notifications and I HOPE they're working their tails off on IS apps now! (It's Mizzou, btw).

I guess I'll just have to talk to them after they send out notifications...I don't really want to sound all over confident and act like I'm already accepted by inquiring now. I'm assuming I won't get in and I'm worrying for nothing but on the off chance I do I was wondering what others thought/would do.

It would be for one school year technically also. By 'working for 1.5 years' I meant from now until August 2011 which is when I would like to enroll. Just to be clear.

 

[twelvetigers]

Right, right. The only problem with waiting is that if you are officially "accepted" (which could happen) and you ask to defer... and they tell you 'no'... you can turn down your acceptance, but you would have to point out that you had done so on VMCAS, and that kinda looks bad. So, you would either have to go ahead and attend as part of the c/o 2014, or you would have to try and apply again after turning down an acceptance. If neither of these things are acceptable, you would want to withdraw before decisions are made.

Does that make any sense?

 

[PM2009]

Right, right. The only problem with waiting is that if you are officially "accepted" (which could happen) and you ask to defer... and they tell you 'no'... you can turn down your acceptance, but you would have to point out that you had done so on VMCAS, and that kinda looks bad. So, you would either have to go ahead and attend as part of the c/o 2014, or you would have to try and apply again after turning down an acceptance. If neither of these things are acceptable, you would want to withdraw before decisions are made.

Does that make any sense?

Yes, that makes sense and what I figured my options would be but it doesn't make the decision any easier!! Luckily in state at Mizzou does not require the VMCAS, only their direct app. I think it does have a place to say if you applied in the past before though so same concept I guess.

I hate to withdraw my app after working so hard and for so long but I also would understand a school being unhappy with an accepted applicant asking her a defferral when there are so many kids on the wait list. Still...don't they want us to be able to afford school and NOT be in debt forever? I obviously didn't know I would come across this job back in September when I submitted but that's life I suppose...I just don't want to destroy my chances of getting accepted in state. Do you have to list if you applied but then withdrew the app? Technically the deadline has already passed so I have fully applied.

 

[rileyroo]

Luckily in state at Mizzou does not require the VMCAS, only their direct app. I think it does have a place to say if you applied in the past before though so same concept I guess.

i'd just like to point out that even though mizzou has their own application (whether they have a place to state whether you have applied before or not) there is a really good chance that they are going to know anyway. your best situation is to call them tomorrow and find out their rules for deferrment. if you don't want to do that, then you should probably read the thread about "turning down an acceptance."

to address your question of "don't they want us to be able to afford vet school instead of being in debt?" they expect you to make that decision and know what you're getting into when you apply. when you applied and didn't have this job, you were expecting to face the debt without this new income. now that you have this new income (which i'm sure is a great situation) i know it has put a spin on your perspective in the view of "wouldn't it be nice if i could wait and apply when i have the tuition in the bank." unfortunately you're in a position to make a tough decision. as recommended above, i would definitely check about deferrment. if you're worried they will think you're assuming acceptance then don't tell them your name.

i would just hate to see you shoot yourself in the foot by waiting until after decisions went out.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I hate to withdraw my app after working so hard and for so long but I also would understand a school being unhappy with an accepted applicant asking her a defferral when there are so many kids on the wait list. Still...don't they want us to be able to afford school and NOT be in debt forever? I obviously didn't know I would come across this job back in September when I submitted but that's life I suppose...I just don't want to destroy my chances of getting accepted in state.

If you don't think you're going to go to the school even if you get accepted... why worry about the effort you put into your application? If you really want the chance to defer, call them ASAP, explain your situation and see if they'll let you defer. If they say yes, then go ahead and wait to hear back from them. If no, then withdraw your apps immediately.

I know you're thinking that maybe if you ask them if you can defer, then they'll automatically reject you... but how good is an acceptance if you're going to turn them down only to apply again next year??? If they DON'T want you badly enough to accept you knowing that you will defer, I doubt they'll let you defer once you're accepted... and by turning them down then, you're sorta burning a bridge with the one school you KNOW you want to go to.

If you're sure you want to go to your in state, but you KNOW you don't want to go this year... then that's the only responsible thing to do IMO.

Do you have to list if you applied but then withdrew the app? Technically the deadline has already passed so I have fully applied.

Maybe. But i don't think it's frowned upon to have withdrawn an application because other opportunities came up...

 

[sumstorm]

couple questions:

will this job make more money than you will make as a vet?

will this job present a unique opportunity you are unlikely to be able to obtain again?

what have the tuition increases over the past couple years been at Mizzou?

 

[ColoradoDVM]

If it were me, I would ask myself what I really want out of a career. If accepted, I don't think I would defer for a job that paid well but was not my ultimate career goal. There is no guarantee that you would be accepted again even if you are accepted for c/o 2014. Sure, it would be great to be able to pay cash for school, but it would be better (IMO) to be accepted now and get started! After a long first career, finally getting accepted into vet school, I can tell you that money isn't everything. I would rather have a bit of debt and have a DVM.

 

[PM2009]

Mizzou for sure knows if you applied in the past or not, no question. Other schools may not know if you applied there with their direct applications but that point is moot since I have no desire to go anywhere but in state to Mizzou.

Plus, I know a lot of the vets at Mizzou including several that do the interviews/are very involved in selecting applicants. We're on a first name basis (due to having several horses spend quite a bit of time up there in the past) so there's no 'hiding' for me. Kathy is who I would have to call about these questions and she knows my number/voice so I couldn't just withhold my name. Maybe I could make up a phony email address but that seems pretty cowardly and dishonest almost.

You guys are probably right though. I don't want to have to decline an invitation because who knows if I'll ever be accepted again. At the same time I don't want to give up this job just as much, if not more. I guess that's my answer and I should withdraw now. I never, ever thought I would do anything like this but knowing I could write a check for tuition when I do go is huge to me. Really, really huge. Especially since I want to go into Equine medicine = no money.

I should definitely sleep on this but I'm not sure how long I have to decide either. I guess this is a good problem. I'm really grateful to be working in this economy but I've never seen myself as anything but a vet and that hasn't changed.

 

[PM2009]

couple questions:

will this job make more money than you will make as a vet?

will this job present a unique opportunity you are unlikely to be able to obtain again?

what have the tuition increases over the past couple years been at Mizzou?

Money wise it's no contest. I will never, ever make this kind of money as a veterinarian. Even as a practice owner. Which I'm okay with...it's the not being able to pay my debt off that bothers me. I don't mind making less/year if I don't also have 6 figures of debt.

It is a unique opportunity and one that will benefit me greatly as a veterinarian. This type of opportunity is allowing me to network with top pharmaceutical companies, hospitals and medical research companies that provide tons of money in funding every year for human and animal research studies to combat orthopedic issues and chronic diseases.

I have no idea about tuition and that is definitely something to look into. Thanks for the tip!

 

[PM2009]

If it were me, I would ask myself what I really want out of a career. If accepted, I don't think I would defer for a job that paid well but was not my ultimate career goal. There is no guarantee that you would be accepted again even if you are accepted for c/o 2014. Sure, it would be great to be able to pay cash for school, but it would be better (IMO) to be accepted now and get started! After a long first career, finally getting accepted into vet school, I can tell you that money isn't everything. I would rather have a bit of debt and have a DVM.

I hear you and that's what my veterinarian told me (also a very close friend of mine). At the same time though I'm only 21 years old. I keep wondering if one year will really make a difference....of course that would be if I withdrew and then was accepted the following year. The risk of declining an acceptance is probably too great to take I guess. I'm just really torn. As a young professional I've never had this kind of income and it's all new to me. I really, really love working and I was so burned out in school but I'm wondering if I still feel that way come August. I just graduated Dec 18th so this is all still very new.

 

[PM2009]

If you don't think you're going to go to the school even if you get accepted... why worry about the effort you put into your application? If you really want the chance to defer, call them ASAP, explain your situation and see if they'll let you defer. If they say yes, then go ahead and wait to hear back from them. If no, then withdraw your apps immediately.

I know you're thinking that maybe if you ask them if you can defer, then they'll automatically reject you... but how good is an acceptance if you're going to turn them down only to apply again next year??? If they DON'T want you badly enough to accept you knowing that you will defer, I doubt they'll let you defer once you're accepted... and by turning them down then, you're sorta burning a bridge with the one school you KNOW you want to go to.

If you're sure you want to go to your in state, but you KNOW you don't want to go this year... then that's the only responsible thing to do IMO.



Maybe. But i don't think it's frowned upon to have withdrawn an application because other opportunities came up...

I see what you're saying but I keep thinking that there are SO many people that apply to vet school every year..do they really want ANYONE that badly? I mean they have their pick of amazingly intelligent and talented people.

I also don't know for sure that I will decline to be perfectly honest. This whole situation just sort of fell into my lap and I'm still getting used to the idea. These are very big decisions and I have zero experience dealing with this sort of thing so it's not easy for me. That's kind of the whole dilemma...

Of course statistically speaking I'm probably worrying for nothing at all. Who knows if I'll even be considered.

 

[sumstorm]

Money wise it's no contest. I will never, ever make this kind of money as a veterinarian. Even as a practice owner. Which I'm okay with...it's the not being able to pay my debt off that bothers me. I don't mind making less/year if I don't also have 6 figures of debt.

It is a unique opportunity and one that will benefit me greatly as a veterinarian. This type of opportunity is allowing me to network with top pharmaceutical companies, hospitals and medical research companies that provide tons of money in funding every year for human and animal research studies to combat orthopedic issues and chronic diseases.

I have no idea about tuition and that is definitely something to look into. Thanks for the tip!

OK, so now, work out the numbers. Find out the income in the field for the first decade (don't go with avg across board, go with per year experience.) Current COA is ~$147,000 for 4 yrs. I guess I would have hard time to if the job paid >$207,000 (COL this year + 1 yr oppurtunity cost base). With all that you should be able to detemie were you will be in a decade.

I will be honest, unless your intent as a vet is research, I don't know that the extra year of networking will help much. What will you be doing?

 

[rileyroo]

Especially since I want to go into Equine medicine = no money.

i don't know what kind of equine vets you've been working with, but the equine vets i work for (and plenty others across my state) are very well off. no money as in no money right out of vet school to do internships/residency? yes...that's true. but as a career? not always true. there are equine vets who don't make very much money but there are also equine vets who have a very comfortable salary. the equine salary will vary depending on different factors...like, what kind of equine medicine you go into, location, practice owner/big specialty hospital owner, your case loads, etc etc.

 

[PM2009]

OK, so now, work out the numbers. Find out the income in the field for the first decade (don't go with avg across board, go with per year experience.) Current COA is ~$147,000 for 4 yrs. I guess I would have hard time to if the job paid >$207,000 (COL this year + 1 yr oppurtunity cost base). With all that you should be able to detemie were you will be in a decade.

Forgive my ignorance but what does COA and COL stand for?

I will be honest, unless your intent as a vet is research, I don't know that the extra year of networking will help much. What will you be doing?

My goal is research...specifically equine orthopedic/sports medicine research. I'm a reasearch scientist with this company and it's my job to not only manufacture product (I do a lot of gross dissections during harvest from donors, plus all of the other processes that I won't bore you with now but are actually very intersting) but also pioneer new techniques and applications for our current and future products. Right now I'm working with more senior scientists on their projects until all of my training is completed per FDA regulations and then I'll be given more freedom to start my own. All of this takes place in an ISO Class 3 clean room so in general it's just a cool job!

The reason this will help me as a veterinarian besides the networking is learning the techniques which are surgical skills and just simply the thought process. It's a technically and intellectually demanding job and it's definitely a baptism by fire sort of situation. Learning the physiology, immunology and medicine behind these processes can only help me down the road. Plus, these companies that I'm working with (the research scientists are responsible for answering all questions from these companies in terms of how and why our product works) are the same ones funding HUGE projects in veterinary medicine because of their potential for human applications down the road.

One of the doctors out at Colorado State (where I did my undergrad) is currently using one of our techniques on horses and having wonderful results. I believe he's planning on turning it into a full fledged study soon but haven't spoken to him in several months. It's just all very applicable...and I'm getting PAID to learn it versus doing an internship after school.

 

[PM2009]

i don't know what kind of equine vets you've been working with, but the equine vets i work for (and plenty others across my state) are very well off. no money as in no money right out of vet school to do internships/residency? yes...that's true. but as a career? not always true. there are equine vets who don't make very much money but there are also equine vets who have a very comfortable salary. the equine salary will vary depending on different factors...like, what kind of equine medicine you go into, location, practice owner/big specialty hospital owner, your case loads, etc etc.

The equine vets I work with (Rood and Riddle, Palm Beach Equine, CSU veterinarians as well as vets in my home state of Missouri) don't usually break the $90K/year barrier and that's only after many, many years in the field working almost 24/7 365 in the case of private practice GP's.

The exception are the vets that worked on my AA H/J show horses in Palm Beach during WEF. They were very well off but they also charged roughly quadruple what every other equine vet did. I also don't want to be a GP. I won't be happy floating and giving vaccs for the vast majority of the time, I'm much more reasearch minded which has a whole other set of pitfalls and drawbacks that I'm probably all too familiar with.

 

[rileyroo]

I'm much more reasearch minded which has a whole other set of pitfalls and drawbacks that I'm probably all too familiar with.

ahhh understandable. and that explains, too, the question brought up earlier about how you could benefit from this current job.

there's no doubt about it...if you're accepted you will be choosing between two great opportunities. sleep on it and see what you feel is best, in the morning. hopefully some of the things mentioned will help you decide what your next step should be.

good luck!

 

[Ben and Me]

PM2009, Based on the AAEP lifestyles survey that I'm looking at right now, you're underestimating the average salaries of established equine vets. I can't remember if I got this report from the members-only section of the website (I downloaded it and have it saved to my computer...and based on the disclaimer at the bottom, I'm thinking I probably did), so I don't feel comfortable posting it on a public forum, but you could always try googling it to see if it pops up.

It is a great read for anyone interested in equine medicine.

Based on what it reports, the average salary for folks graduating in the 1990s is the $115k range, and it goes up from there. The first year is the roughest - $40k range, but it goes up almost double that pretty rapidly.

It has graphs on tons of different variables as well - I just pulled those basic numbers off of the first few charts.

If you want to try googling it:

The title is of the pdf is AAEP Salary and LifeStyle Survey Report and the title of the report itself is "A Confidential Lifestyles and Salary Survey Conducted on Behalf of American Association of Equine Practitioners".

Just want you to have as much factual info as you possibly can before you make such a huge decision.

 

[eventualeventer]

Ben and Me, here's a public version of the AAEP Salary & Lifestyle Report.

 

[BarnyardPunch]

Forgive my ignorance but what does COA and COL stand for?
The reason this will help me as a veterinarian besides the networking is learning the techniques which are surgical skills and just simply the thought process. It's a technically and intellectually demanding job and it's definitely a baptism by fire sort of situation. Learning the physiology, immunology and medicine behind these processes can only help me down the road. Plus, these companies that I'm working with (the research scientists are responsible for answering all questions from these companies in terms of how and why our product works) are the same ones funding HUGE projects in veterinary medicine because of their potential for human ...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to you that this job, while also earning you some money and immediately addressing your interest in research, will make you an even MORE attractive candidate for vet school in the future. You sound incredibly excited about the job and about working outside of school for a while. And while yes, it's not easy to get into vet school, having solid research in an FDA-tracked biomedical area will keep you at the top of the applicant pile.

Again, just my opinion and not based on facts other than knowing three people accepted into several schools in the past two application cycles who were told that their real-world research experience was key.

Caution: Your mileage may vary. 🙂

 

[Ben and Me]

Ben and Me, here's a public version of the AAEP Salary & Lifestyle Report.

Ok cool! Thanks for posting that! I got all nervous about the disclaimer at the bottom of the cover sheet, so I'm glad to know it's available to the public.

PM2009, I would highly recommend that you read through that document before you make any decisions - it's great.

 

[Freddie12]

Does anyone know if a similiar report exists for other types of vets?

 

[BlacKAT33]

Does anyone know if a similiar report exists for other types of vets?

Biennial Economic Survey Results- AVMA

http://www.avmatv.org/channel.cfm?s=67&c=408

this is a video of a power point presentation. it may seem boring lol but i watched the whole thing and there is some GREAT info in here. it goes over all the different areas of vet med and also i think it compared the difference in salary for sexes. private vs. public etc etc it is really great and worth the 5-10 min of your time

 

[twelvetigers]

PM2009, that does sound like an epic awesome job. At 21, it's a remarkable opportunity! Like you said, you aren't necessarily in a 'hurry'... so if you agree that this is huge (you probably do) then I would definitely pursue it. At age 24, I'm in the same place that you are now and I have to say... I would still lean towards pursuing it in my shoes.

Do make sure that only doing this job for a year and a half will have no repercussions.

 

[sumstorm]

Just curious, but if this is your interest...why go the vet route? why not stick with the research at the better money?

COA = cost of attendance
COL = cost of living (which varies greatly depending on what you are doing, where you live, travel, vehicle needs, etc. I just popped 30k in on the assumption that you will have to pay really hefty taxes, student loans from undergrd, have a place to live, food, possibly health care, etc.

 

[PM2009]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I've decided that this job is too great an opportunity to pass up and am going to withdraw my app for this cycle. 🙁 😱 I talked to my parents and really close friend who is a veterinarian for a while today and I just think that's the best choice for me right now. This way, as you guys pointed out, I can withdraw due to new opportunities and not have to turn down an acceptance.

The reason I still fully intend on applying to vet school is that I want to do this type of work on horses, specifically techniques that will benefit hunter/jumper sport horses. This company is strictly human and while I really love it I still want to become a veterinarian and focus on my real passion for horses one of these days.

Thanks everyone for hearing me out! It helped a lot to write it all out. I'm going to apply again next cycle assuming everything stays on track but if I end up working this job for a few years I wouldn't be too upset. This is definitely not the way I thought my career path would go but I'm going to give it a shot. Thanks again!

 

[PM2009]

Ok cool! Thanks for posting that! I got all nervous about the disclaimer at the bottom of the cover sheet, so I'm glad to know it's available to the public.

PM2009, I would highly recommend that you read through that document before you make any decisions - it's great.

Thanks for the info. I've read that before. My salary expectations for equine med come straight from the veterinarians themselves. 6 or 7 have told me what they make/year so that's how I know what to expect down the road. The national averages are a great tool but sooo many things can cause them to be off. My numbers come from vets working in the fields I want to work in and in the same area of the country.

 

[sumstorm]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I've decided that this job is too great an opportunity to pass up and am going to withdraw my app for this cycle. 🙁 😱 I talked to my parents and really close friend who is a veterinarian for a while today and I just think that's the best choice for me right now. This way, as you guys pointed out, I can withdraw due to new opportunities and not have to turn down an acceptance.

I would encourage you to call up first and discuss whether this would be a deferrable oppurtunity based on the info. Worth at least knowing.

 

[PM2009]

I would encourage you to call up first and discuss whether this would be a deferrable oppurtunity based on the info. Worth at least knowing.

I agree and I have a call in to Kathy already since I need to talk to her one way or the other. I'll probably hear back tomorrow morning sometime. I'm assuming no but if the answer is Yes and I do get in (by some miracle) then I'll be overjoyed! My luck usually isn't that great though! A great job and vet school acceptance with a deferral in the space of two months? Yea right! Still...

 

[sumstorm]

make sure you don't talk about it as a job/pay/money issue. discuss it as a unique opportunity to learn and grow that won't be available at any other time.