Dell Medical School's Curriculum: What does this mean for Texas?

[Lucca]

A friend sent me a link to the Dell Medical School's curriculum and I was fully expecting to see a 1.5 yr basic science +2.5 yr clinical science curriculum akin to what most Texas programs are transitioning to. Instead, I was surprised to see a 1 yr pre-clinical, 1yr clinical science, 1yr scholarly project/research year, 1yr clinical science curriculum more closely resembling Duke's model.

Here it is:

Given Dell's home next to UT Austin I'm not that surprised that a scholarly concentration is included but it's suddenly a whole new curriculum option in Texas and it's not as if Texas was hurting for basic science medical research institutions. In other news, UTMB is canceling their MD/PhD BME program in light of Dell's entry into the fold and Dell will probably have a partnership with the Cockrell School of Engineering in their own MD/PhD program.

Fellow Texans, does this affect the way you will look at Dell in the coming cycle(s) even though it's a brand new school?

Is Texas just the greatest state in the U.S of A?

Is this a good thing? Bad thing? Do you feel personally wronged in some way? I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on the decision.

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[acquiescing]

I already thought Dell would be a good school, but I think steps it up a notch for my interests. However, obviously it will take some time to establish a reputation in the field.

Texas is the greatest state in the union.

I feel personally wronged because if I was five years younger I could potentially be in Austin for my MD and have a curriculum that suits my interests. Sarcasm aside, I'm really excited to see how this pans out.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

I was an intern for Dell Medical School last year, I can try and answer any questions you have on both the building design itself and curriculum! Duke, Brown, and Florida St. were 3 of the main reference schools we used when building the architecture and curriculum. I actually still have the breakdown of the first year intro to disease block and the normal body block which includes gross anatomy if you'd want to see them. Although it may have changed before they finalized it with the LCME.

 

[NickNaylor]

Seems like a great curriculum to me and continues the trend of shortening the pre-clinical years in favor of additional research or elective time.

I think Dell will very likely become a powerhouse school in the coming years given its association with UT Austin. I'd be hesitant about being a part of the first year class, but for those students who will be applying in the coming years and are interested in coming to Texas, this should definitely be top on the list of institutions to consider once they iron the curriculum out and have a few classes go through to work out the kinks.

 

[Silverflash]

Wow, interesting curriculum and definitely offers Texas students another option. I definitely see DMS becoming a top school in Texas after the first few rough years any brand new medical school goes through.

I'm just bummed that I'm one year too early to apply.

 

[Lucca]

Seems like a great curriculum to me and continues the trend of shortening the pre-clinical years in favor of additional research or elective time.

I think Dell will very likely become a powerhouse school in the coming years given its association with UT Austin. I'd be hesitant about being a part of the first year class, but for those students who will be applying in the coming years and are interested in coming to Texas, this should definitely be top on the list of institutions to consider once they iron the curriculum out and have a few classes go through to work out the kinks.

I heard this a lot when I was at UTSW over the summer from the students, usually qualified with "I would love to get to live in Austin while going to school" or if they were UT grads "I would love to have stayed in Austin for four more years". I told this to one of my professors and they replied by saying that the basic science suite at UTSW seriously outclasses what is available at UT Austin; I haven't really looked into it but make of it what you will.

This is very hard for me personally since I would be matriculating - provided Dell accepted me and I chose to go there - into the second class at Dell. The curriculum looks good to me personally, especially since I'm fairly certain I want research to be part of my career forever (to what extent, I'm still not sure) but the absence of the TMC and or clinical sites rivaling UTSW's hospitals makes it very hard for me to place it above SW or Houston/Baylor. Perhaps I'm overvaluing this and undervaluing the appeal of the scholarly concentration/extended elective time?

 

[NickNaylor]

I heard this a lot when I was at UTSW over the summer from the students, usually qualified with "I would love to get to live in Austin while going to school" or if they were UT grads "I would love to have stayed in Austin for four more years". I told this to one of my professors and they replied by saying that the basic science suite at UTSW seriously outclasses what is available at UT Austin; I haven't really looked into it but make of it what you will.

This is very hard for me personally since I would be matriculating - provided Dell accepted me and I chose to go there - into the second class at Dell. The curriculum looks good to me personally, especially since I'm fairly certain I want research to be part of my career forever (to what extent, I'm still not sure) but the absence of the TMC and or clinical sites rivaling UTSW's hospitals makes it very hard for me to place it above SW or Houston/Baylor. Perhaps I'm overvaluing this and undervaluing the appeal of the scholarly concentration/extended elective time?

Well the reality is that Austin is significantly more attractive in terms of a place to live than Dallas (UTSW) or Houston (BMC), so from that perspective alone I think people would be more inclined to apply there in spite of the newness of the school.

Also, keep in mind that it's a brand new school. UTSW is the crown of the UT system for now with respect to biomedical training and research, but there's no reason that will remain true in perpetuity. My mentor commented that he fully expects Dell to be a contender if not surpass UTSW and BMC in terms of general reputation and training opportunities over the next 15-20 years.

 

[sunnysnow7]

Nick (and other current med students) - how would you feel about taking Step 1 a full year after completing the pre-clinical curriculum? That model seems to be becoming increasingly popular - especially in TX - but I have to wonder if it might be difficult to get back into "study mode" after spending a year in the clinic.

 

[NickNaylor]

Nick (and other current med students) - how would you feel about taking Step 1 a full year after completing the pre-clinical curriculum? That model seems to be becoming increasingly popular - especially in TX - but I have to wonder if it might be difficult to get back into "study mode" after spending a year in the clinic.

I haven't gone through that type of curriculum so I don't know. It's hard to say without personal experience. On the one hand, you will almost certainly have to do a significant amount of "relearning" since so much of the material is rarely if ever seen in the clinical world. On the other hand, I imagine it could be immensely helpful to fit that information into a knowledge framework which includes things that you learned about and saw on the wards. For someone like me who sucks at brute force memorizing material, I think it would be helpful. But there are obviously plenty of people who do just fine without that kind of setup.

 

[Lucca]

Well the reality is that Austin is significantly more attractive in terms of a place to live than Dallas (UTSW) or Houston (BMC), so from that perspective alone I think people would be more inclined to apply there in spite of the newness of the school.

Also, keep in mind that it's a brand new school. UTSW is the crown of the UT system for now with respect to biomedical training and research, but there's no reason that will remain true in perpetuity. My mentor commented that he fully expects Dell to be a contender if not surpass UTSW and BMC in terms of general reputation and training opportunities over the next 15-20 years.

This just makes the decision so much harder for me but I'm glad that there is one more school in a highly-attractive location to roll the dice on. I'm not sure how I would make that choice. Of course, we have to wait until Dell is more than an idea and is an actual physical place.

 

[ridethecliche]

Yeah, attracting talent to a good location is much easier than attracting talent to a place in the middle of nowhere. Unless that place is mayo...

 

[NickNaylor]

This just makes the decision so much harder for me but I'm glad that there is one more school in a highly-attractive location to roll the dice on. I'm not sure how I would make that choice. Of course, we have to wait until Dell is more than an idea and is an actual physical place. I have met several of faculty there already and one of my favorite lecturers is going to be teaching the pre-clinical sciences, so that's exciting too.

Well you should take the school for what it is now and for what it will be while you're there, not what it may be in the future. From that perspective, UTSW or BMC seem like clear choices if you have those opportunities.

 

[TCU1990]

UTMB is canceling their MD/PhD BME program? Interesting, where did you see that?

 

[Lucca]

UTMB is canceling their MD/PhD BME program? Interesting, where did you see that?

http://www.utmb.edu/mdphd/programs/biomedical_engineering.asp

I should've included a citation originally, the announcement is at the top of the page.

 

[acquiescing]

I heard this a lot when I was at UTSW over the summer from the students, usually qualified with "I would love to get to live in Austin while going to school" or if they were UT grads "I would love to have stayed in Austin for four more years". I told this to one of my professors and they replied by saying that the basic science suite at UTSW seriously outclasses what is available at UT Austin; I haven't really looked into it but make of it what you will.

This is very hard for me personally since I would be matriculating - provided Dell accepted me and I chose to go there - into the second class at Dell. The curriculum looks good to me personally, especially since I'm fairly certain I want research to be part of my career forever (to what extent, I'm still not sure) but the absence of the TMC and or clinical sites rivaling UTSW's hospitals makes it very hard for me to place it above SW or Houston/Baylor. Perhaps I'm overvaluing this and undervaluing the appeal of the scholarly concentration/extended elective time?

I don't think UT Austin will ever be on par in the biomedical research realm with UTSW. SW is otherworldly as far as research goes. They are among the best of the best across the country.

 

[ridethecliche]

Austin does have a lot of tech stuff though. There's established biomed stuff in Texas already, but Austin's a great city and you'd be surprised how much money can flow to a med school from industry etc if their research arm goes up quickly. Having a strong undergrad science and PhD program attached to the school doesn't hurt.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

I don't think UT Austin will ever be on par in the biomedical research realm with UTSW. SW is otherworldly as far as research goes. They are among the best of the best across the country.

I think over time it could be. UT Austin has a ridiculous amount of research funding and it has two brand new research labs, molecular bio and biochemistry, that could be used for Dell students.

 

[ZX10R]

I don't think it will ever surpass BCM in reputation/prestige, but it will eventually surpass UTSW most likely due to funding and location just like how people choose UT over all the other UT schools. Then those of us that want to go to private schools choose Rice/Baylor/TCU which Rice > UT and Baylor/TCU are closely approaching. It is very hard for public schools to out do private schools. But I think UTSW/UTH/BCM will hold the best residency spots because the PDs there are power houses. You can't just replace people like Kenkel at UTSW, the world renown Oncologists at MD Anderson, and surgeons at Herman Memorial.

In the end I still think you should choose the medical school that best suites your personality style. Since Dell is going to be researched focused you'll probably find it the best fit, Lucca.

 

[Lucca]

I don't think it will ever surpass BCM in reputation/prestige, but it will eventually surpass UTSW most likely due to funding and location just like how people choose UT over all the other UT schools. Then those of us that want to go to private schools choose Rice/Baylor/TCU which Rice > UT and Baylor/TCU are closely approaching. It is very hard for public schools to out do private schools. But I think UTSW/UTH/BCM will hold the best residency spots because the PDs there are power houses. You can't just replace people like Kenkel at UTSW, the world renown Oncologists at MD Anderson, and surgeons at Herman Memorial.

In the end I still think you should choose the medical school that best suites your personality style. Since Dell is going to be researched focused you'll probably find it the best fit, Lucca.

I don't really agree with your first paragraph. I don't think TCU/Baylor undergrad even come close to UT Austin and Rice (that's not to say that they are bad schools, however). And if the decision is between Rice or UT Austin, I think the choice is pretty clear considering how expensive Rice is. I don't think the resources at Rice are on-par with what you could get at UT Austin even though the classes might be smaller or more engaging but that is up for debate. I don't really see a real benefit in going to a private school outside of the Northeast, TBH. The public institutions in the Mid West, South and West are all on par if not generally better than the private institutions at the same locations barring some exceptions like Case Western, U Chicago and Stanford.

 

[jqueb29]

While it is an interesting option, as well as an option that I might have picked before I was exposed to my school's curriculum, I feel now as if I would despise a 4 year plan structured like this.

 

[Lucca]

While it is an interesting option, as well as an option that I might have picked before I was exposed to my school's curriculum, I feel now as if I would despise a 4 year plan structured like this.

Care to elaborate?

 

[jqueb29]

Care to elaborate?

I don't like 3rd year being devoted to research. I much prefer 2 years of classes then 2 years of rotations, with the option to fit in research where and when you see fit. I also don't like having only July for Step 1 prep. My school ends 2nd year with a 10 week long capstone course dedicated to Step 1 prep that ends the beginning of May. 10 weeks is plenty of studying, and that allows you to take Step 1 early in May. We don't start 3rd year until July, so if you take the test right after capstone, it's pretty easy to do good and then have 1.5-2 months for either relaxing or research.

 

[acquiescing]

UTSW is so underrated.

As a current MD-PhD applicant, let me just say that people need to ignore UTSW's #26 research ranking on US News because their basic science research is, as acquiescing said, literally otherworldly. Metrics measuring research impact put UTSW in the top 4 with Harvard, UCSF, and Johns Hopkins. If I remember correctly, UTSW has 4 active Nobel Laureates and 12 HHMI investigators, which are top 1 and top 5 among medical schools, respectively. And these are not meaningless numbers: these people are THE leaders in my field and I read/hear about them every day.

These things don't matter to most medical students, especially to those who have no interest in basic science research, but seriously: unless Dell goes on the most insane recruiting streak the world has ever seen, it will take quite a while and a lot more than a couple new research labs before it can even think about passing UTSW in the basic science world.

Medical school is another thing. Given Dell's location, I think it will become more desirable in the eyes of medical students very quickly.

Thank you. I don't mean it as a slight to UT-Austin. They could be top 10 in a lot of research metrics and still not surpass UTSW. Not to say they never could, I just think people don't realize the prowess of UTSW in the true research world because we live in the medical world on this forum. All this said, Dell will have plenty of selling points. I really look forward to how that school grows.

 

[jd989898]

How competitive do you all think DMS admissions (specifically MD/PhD) will be this upcoming cycle in comparison to say UTSW and Baylor?

 

[TCU1990]

How competitive do you all think DMS admissions (specifically MD/PhD) will be this upcoming cycle in comparison to say UTSW and Baylor?

Can't speak for MD/PhD admissions, but for regular MD I expect them to be pretty selective. For reference, Texas Tech Foster's entering class in 2009 had average stats of 3.72GPA/28.3 MCAT (3.64/28.9 MCAT for it's second class in 2010), yet the entering stats for 2013 was 3.6GPA/28.8 MCAT. I don't think it will take long (if any time at all) for a medical school in Austin to be pretty competitive stats wise.


https://elpaso.ttuhsc.edu/fostersom/lcme/Section_III_Medical_Students.pdf

 

[Lucca]

How competitive do you all think DMS admissions (specifically MD/PhD) will be this upcoming cycle in comparison to say UTSW and Baylor?

I agree with @TCU1990 . The first entering class at Dell will be 50 students (according to the DMS website) and will remain that size for the first four years. I fully expect it to be as competitive as UT Houston for the first cycle considering the location and class size. I don't think it's newness, while perhaps deterring some from matriculating, will deter anyone from applying.

 

[jd989898]

I'd give anything to get into DMS for MD/PhD. I grew up in Austin. Do you guys think I'd at least be in the median range with a 3.76 gpa? Gonna hopefully knock the MCAT out of the park when I take it in June.

 

[acquiescing]

I'd give anything to get into DMS for MD/PhD. I grew up in Austin. Do you guys think I'd at least be in the median range with a 3.76 gpa? Gonna hopefully knock the MCAT out of the park when I take it in June.

MD/PhD admissions is heavily biased towards your research resume and how you can speak about it. That GPA is probably in the range, but the deciding factor will be research.

 

[jd989898]

MD/PhD admissions is heavily biased towards your research resume and how you can speak about it. That GPA is probably in the range, but the deciding factor will be research.

Awesome. I love talking about my research. I'm assuming you're matriculating to an MD PhD program? Any advice? Just starting to write my PS and ask for LORS. Will be applying to all the Texas schools.

 

[acquiescing]

Awesome. I love talking about my research. I'm assuming you're matriculating to an MD PhD program? Any advice? Just starting to write my PS and ask for LORS. Will be applying to all the Texas schools.

I think I'm going to end up opting for a straight MD program, but I interviewed a few places MD/PhD and it was really enlightening. PM me and we can discuss further if you have any specific questions.

 

[NickNaylor]

That's your opinion on the matter, because I disagree wholeheartedly. Anyways, I was very excited about this new medical school, until this post. The whole year of research is a huge turn off for me. However, if I decide to get my MPH as well, then it would be very beneficial.

I'm from Dallas and would never want to live in Austin. But I would bet good money that if you asked your average person whether they would want to live in Dallas or Austin, the majority would say Austin. It has a perception of being more "lively" and "a real city" that I think Dallas doesn't have in the broader zeitgeist (even though Dallas is a great city). Houston is an equally cool city.

 

[Lucca]

I'm from Dallas and would never want to live in Austin. But I would bet good money that if you asked your average person whether they would want to live in Dallas or Austin, the majority would say Austin. It has a perception of being more "lively" and "a real city" that I think Dallas doesn't have in the broader zeitgeist (even though Dallas is a great city). Houston is an equally cool city.

*has been to Dallas many times*

*reads bolded*

*reads "Location: Chicago, IL"*

*has been to Chicago*


hmmmm.....something just doesn't add up. Dallas is a good place to raise a family I guess, /shrug. I guess I'm a bigger city boy myself, even Austin feels a bit too small.

 

[NickNaylor]

*has been to Dallas many times*

*reads bolded*

*reads "Location: Chicago, IL"*

*has been to Chicago*


hmmmm.....something just doesn't add up. Dallas is a good place to raise a family I guess, /shrug. I guess I'm a bigger city boy myself, even Austin feels a bit too small.

I'm just not a big city guy. Chicago is alright, but there's just too many people. Being in a big city is great in some ways, but for me the pros don't outweigh the cons.

I seem to have found plenty of people that are from Chicago who say things along the lines of, "it's a great city!" Interestingly, they no longer live there.

 

[Symmetry11]

Does anyone know how close Dell will be to UT Austins main campus and what the housing options will be like near Dell?

 

[NickNaylor]

Does anyone know how close Dell will be to UT Austins main campus and what the housing options will be like near Dell?

From the Dell website:

Creating the Dell Medical School at The University of Texas at Austin is, essentially, the equivalent of starting a new campus. A comprehensive plan has been developed for a medical district to be created on existing University property at the southeastern corner of the campus as part of the University of Texas at Austin Campus Master Plan.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

Does anyone know how close Dell will be to UT Austins main campus and what the housing options will be like near Dell?

It's being built on 15th and Red River. Students will have their own parking available.

 

[SMCACAtoMD]

I'd give anything to get into DMS for MD/PhD. I grew up in Austin. Do you guys think I'd at least be in the median range with a 3.76 gpa? Gonna hopefully knock the MCAT out of the park when I take it in June.

I'm taking the June 19th test as well. I'm sure it couldn't hurt, but do you think working for Seton has any affect on being an applicant? Doing some hospital work during gap years to really figure out what I want to specialize and focus on.

 

[Thangbill]

Thank you. I don't mean it as a slight to UT-Austin. They could be top 10 in a lot of research metrics and still not surpass UTSW. Not to say they never could, I just think people don't realize the prowess of UTSW in the true research world because we live in the medical world on this forum. All this said, Dell will have plenty of selling points. I really look forward to how that school grows.

I agree. If you look at any picture in the Big Robbins, there's a high possibility that it is contributed by UTSW. That is enough to say about the school.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

I'm taking the June 19th test as well. I'm sure it couldn't hurt, but do you think working for Seton has any affect on being an applicant? Doing some hospital work during gap years to really figure out what I want to specialize and focus on.

The only influence it'll have is being able to list it as clinical volunteering or work experience, depending on which you're doing.